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On Dating!!!

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StudentofVihe

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On Dating
(Transcribed from a talk given by Swami Chinmayananda in U.S.A. in 1984 )

There is nothing wrong with dating but ask yourself, “What do I want out of life?” If you want to be only mediocre or average, then date, drink, dance, or whatever and waste all your mental energy, your destiny is in your hands. But if you want to score high in life, you have to live in self-control. All the men and women who have excelled in life have been fascinated by the goals they set for themselves. You can be in the majority, just wanting to feed your body, or you can choose to be a great person, although they are few in number. There was only one Einstein and one Gandhi.

You can set for yourself a higher vision that will enable you to live up to your maximum capacity.South Asians are scoring high all over the world. Have you stopped to wonder why? The difference lies in having self-discipline and a higher goal to aim for. When the mind is not engaged in a goal or ambition, it rambles all over. It is the parents’ responsibility to show the goal of life, to give ideas, and to let these ideas blossom in their children. A child is naturally fascinated by a flame and will draw close to it, but the job of the parents is to keep the child safe from harm. If the child persists, however, the parent can lead the child close to the flame so he feels the heat. After that the child will not go near it.

I know a sculptor who is considered to be a madman. One day we were walking along a river. He noticed a huge stone and walked around it several times; then he started to lift it, and together we took it to his place. Even after we had brought it to his studio he kept looking fixedly at it. He forgot all about me and just kept looking at it. After a day or two, I again visited him in his studio. I noticed that the stone had taken a human form, yet he continued hammering and chiseling away. He had created a lot of chips around him. I also noticed the empty teacups, for he had not taken the time to eat. After a few more days a beautiful Krishna emerged, I exclaimed, “Oh my friend what a beautiful form you have made.”

He said, “Never say that, I never did it.”

I said, “Then who did it?”

He remarked, “Don’t say I have created it. I did not make it. The beauty was in the stone already and I just chipped off whatever was unnecessary.”


In the same way, the higher personality is lying dormant in all of us. That which is veiling the beauty has to be chipped off. So let all your activities challenge your goal. In your success lies the success of the society.

You ask, “Can we have dates? All my friends are dating. Can I do drugs; all my friends are doing drugs?” Use your discrimination! This will show your strong-mindedness. There is nothing wrong with an occasional date; it is not a big deal. But realize you are playing with fire. Haven’t you seen the broken families? Children from these homes are searching for love. You, on the other hand, are being continuously fed with love. Indian parents are built that way. Many of you want to imitate your western peers, which is natural at this age, but when they ask you why you are not dating at this time, just tell them, “I don’t need to beg for Mary or John’s love for a couple of hours when I am saturated in love 24x7.” It is the culture. The Indian culture is distinct because of the divine goal. In everything we do, we bring out the divine essence.

One more idea: In life there is both happiness and sorrow, and inspiring moments are few. When we pass the final exams there is excitement. When a grandson is born there is excitement for the grandparents, when the tenth grandchild is born, they are not that excited. When one has done everything, life’s excitements have ended. Then comes vanaprastha, a stage of meditative living. No grandson can see eye-to-eye with his grandfather, for it is a different generation.

If dating starts at the age of 12 or 13, and by 18 one has had all the experiences of sex and dating, perhaps even had a child by 19, then when 30 comes around there is no excitement, nothing to look forward to. On the other hand, a person of self-control, who has studied at the right time, taken a job, married at the right time, and has children; that person’s entire life is an inspiration. You can dull your life and end it at 35, then feel you have nothing to look forward to. Or you can do everything at the right time and live in self-control. That is Sanatana dharma. Every stage of your life remains beautiful and every action is geared towards the final goal.
 
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anandb

Active member
This is absolutely funny. I read this post and do agree with its content and then I find these advertisements "Date the Wealthy" on the left, "Find Muslim Women" and "Date Sexy Russian Women" on the top.
 

sangom

Well-known member
What Chinmayananda (C)says is only part-truth, IMO. Not so very long ago, and even today, girls used to be given in marriage even before they attained puberty; they used to bear children from the earliest age (15 or 16) and used to have 10 or 12 children. This scenario was true of all classes and castes, as far as I know. So, who are these South Asians to whom C referring to? Needs study and research by Chinmaya devotees.

Again, our people who started family life very early in their lives, did not feel there was no excitement in life (whether C refers to sexual excitement alone, I am not sure) because all good and auspicious occasions were joyful events to be celebrated as best as they could; of course many people might have felt their inability to spend as much as they would have wished, as an inhibiting factor and probably could not therefore enjoy the happiness to its full extent. Also, many of them lived as long as the conditions of health allowed in those days with very good attachment to their families and zest for life.

Last but not least, C himself was a supreme example of a person with not-so-much self-control in his early years achieving very high goals in life.

All in all, an advice which borders on lip-service to an unreal principle, in my view.
 
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anandb

Active member
What Chinmayananda (C)says is only part-truth, IMO. Not so very long ago, and even today, girls used to be given in marriage even before they attained puberty; they used to bear children from the earliest age (15 or 16) and used to have 10 or 12 children. This scenario was true of all classes and castes, as far as I know. So, who are these South Asians to whom C referring to? Needs study and research by Chinmaya devotees.

Again, our people who started family life very early in their lives, did not feel there was no excitement in life (whether C refers to sexual excitement alone, I am not sure) because all good and auspicious occasions were joyful events to be celebrated as best as they could; of course many people might have felt their inability to spend as much as they would have wished, as an inhibiting factor and probably could not therefore enjoy the happiness to its full extent. Also, many of them lived as long as the conditions of health allowed in those days with very good attachment to their families and zest for life.

Last but not least, C himself was a supreme example of a person with not-so-much self-control in his early years achieving very high goals in life.

All in all, an advice which borders on lip-service to an unreal principle, in my view.

I think Shri. C refers to the sexual promiscuity in the Western societies and the practice of multiple sexual partners while dating which has now slowly started creeping into eastern societies as well. All said, the superiority of Eastern morals compared to the West is much acknowledged even in the West but this will soon become history as the fast paced consumer driven model of growth is being adopted by the Eastern societies and a few generations later these would be existing only in print and be debated as whether these morals actually existed a few centuries back.
 

Nara

Well-known member
..... All said, the superiority of Eastern morals compared to the West is much acknowledged even in the West ....

Dear Anand, Greetings!

This is a sweeping statement. I don't know what constitutes "acknowledged even in the West". But moral equivalence between racism and caste system is acknowledged by the entire world. Take a look at this -- it is only one of tons of references. In that sense, the entire world, not just the west, thinks the the practice of caste system is morally depraved.

IMO, moral superiority is not something that can be self declared. Further, IMO, there is no such thing as comparative moral superiority/inferiority among nations and societies as a whole.

Also, morality is not adherence to the "Love Rules" (h/t Arundhati Roy) of a society -- dating or not dating, having multiple sexual partners, life-long monogamy are not moral or immoral per se. The only barometer of morality in my books is justice and compassion -- in those measures all societies fall short in one way or another.

Cheers!
 
N

nachi naga

Guest
when our stomach organ wants food,we groan and moan if not taken care of.

similiary reproductive organs at particular ages groan and moan to be taken care.

with the advent of modern medicine,all organs can be taken care of indefinitely.

only thing is,emotional attachment must be there regardless of place,culture or direction in the world.

many a spiritual guru's deride customs of west,which is immoral,imho.similiarly western domination(you name it) as its being adduced here with eastern morals,is like comparing oranges with apples.with modern education,all will be western,and minority gurus with sishyas will take jibes,business as usual.

ppl just divorce these days if compatability is lacking,either emotionally or physically.in some societies this is a mature way of handling relationships and n some societies the power of sacrificing & compromise is inculcated.at the beginning of the night,what matters is happiness.live your life fully as an after-life always will remain mystic.only a select few understand & comprehend it.rating,dating,mating and relating goes hand in hand & leg in leg,in every species.
 

rajuvish

Active member
@anandb: quite a sharp observation -- below all that you've mentioned, are also given "sthothras for Hanuman, Ayyappa and Subrahmanya", all three eminent Gods, with a record of celibacy (though Valli-Devayani stories&Poorna-Pushkala Swamy, are there), pse note!
as for discussions on the original post, Swamy C's point is focussed on TODAY's context, i think, and not on the good old days when there was something to keep the flame of life going at every stage of life, much beyond the scope of sexual pleasures, 'emotional health&balance' taken care of in a very natural way in the societal set-up and written&unwritten codes of conduct, courtesy etc. it would be interesting to extend this kind of discussion further, and examine the 'emotional health' aspect more deeply (one of the posts above mentions this): as for human needs, the basic urges in gradation, CEM Joad, BShaw, Aldous Huxley and others discussed in their well known, widely read essays points which had already been offered to us in Hinduism (Brahmins, esp.), through scriptures, elaborated by SriKrishna, BheeshmaPithamaha, etc., and later by Pathanjali and the like. Finally, in sum, what we need for a happy life, with the flame, 'excitement', still going right to the 'end', are 'emotional, 'financial', health-wise' and 'relationship-wise' health and balance: find them the way it suits you best, without hurting others, with total respect&regard for similar need in others, and, contributing to society to the best of your ability, and, you would then be living in conformity with your Dharma, with the blessings of 'clear thinking' and 'good bodily health'! (i heard a discourse in which the essence of all Dharmachara, was summed up in nutshell as converging to 'clear thinking' and 'good bodily health', which together should certainly lead to success&happiness in life!) -- namaskarams, rj.
 

Raghy

Well-known member
To all who think that 'Dating' is a 'less moral' act....

Dating has nothing to do with morality. Not all the couple who went on a date end up in the bed; quite the opposite is true. 'one night stands' are different from 'dating'. They should not be confused. If you guys do not know about the unwritten rules of 'Dating', then, I suggest you must go and learn them.Don't think about the girls who go on dates as sluts.

Cheers!
 

rajuvish

Active member
i, for one, fully agree with the above post: friendship has many dimensions, 'dating' is an act of friendship. it need not be always founded on (perceived) sexual needs. Swamiji (C) was probably briefed on certain problems some families faced, and was asked to talk against that background, when he lectured (in 1984?) to a certain audience. in a mature society, 'dating' need not violate morality code and principles. thank you, Raghy-ji for the post! - cheers, rj
 

anandb

Active member
Dear Anand, Greetings!

This is a sweeping statement. I don't know what constitutes "acknowledged even in the West". But moral equivalence between racism and caste system is acknowledged by the entire world. Take a look at this -- it is only one of tons of references. In that sense, the entire world, not just the west, thinks the the practice of caste system is morally depraved.

IMO, moral superiority is not something that can be self declared. Further, IMO, there is no such thing as comparative moral superiority/inferiority among nations and societies as a whole.

Also, morality is not adherence to the "Love Rules" (h/t Arundhati Roy) of a society -- dating or not dating, having multiple sexual partners, life-long monogamy are not moral or immoral per se. The only barometer of morality in my books is justice and compassion -- in those measures all societies fall short in one way or another.

Cheers!

Shri. Nara,

These days I feel absolutely lazy to be drawn into any kind of argument, so I will let this pass. To each his own.

Thanks
 
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StudentofVihe

StudentofVihe

Active member
"Save yourself by yourself."- Swami Vivekananda

Source: Times of India, Times Life! July 25, 2010

I stayed at my boyfriend’s place one night and his mom didn’t speak to me the morning after! “That was so uncool,” complains Tina Dutta. The 21-year-old may be oblivious to a parent’s worst nightmare, but she voices the angst of a generation that’s learning to negotiate early the tricky areas of love, relationships and pre-marital sex.

Harish Sadani of Yuva Maitri helpline in Mumbai gets no rest as he takes call after call from youth looking for answers on sex and gender issues. Queries come in from youngsters as old as 16. And the problems are complex, from sex with older married married woman to a first time gay sex experience, Sadani wonders at the levels of permissiveness in matters of heart and libido. “Sex is not just a byproduct of a relationship anymore for youngsters today,” he observes. “It’s the basis. Couples hook up to check out their physical compatibility before taking the relationship forward.”

From raunchy to debauched, a generation hooked on the ‘Sex and the City’ culture stops at nothing. From Facebook to f*** buddies, condom vending machines in colleges to sex toys, they are exploring all avenues. For most youngsters, sex is not a four-letter word anymore. Hookups are quite open, there’s nothing to hide, no need to go at it on the sly. “Sex is as much a part of life as shopping and other good things in life. What’s the big deal about it?” asks 20 year old Raina Singh. “They are starting quite early, with a first kiss and necking at the age of 14-15, oral and vaginal sex at an average age of 18-19.”, comments Sanjay Kumar, counselor, Hansraj College, Delhi. Ankona Dutta, 23, informs her parents each time she visits her boyfriend’s place for a nightcap. They allow her to go on holidays with him, on the condition that they are accompanied by other friends and cousins. Ankona’s boyfriend picks her up after work, pays for her weekend shopping spree, and joins her dad for an occasional drink. Sack sessions happen in his bedroom and not necessarily at night!

There’s a thrill in “hooking up”. Young men track ladies old enough to be their mothers on Facebook. “What’s the harm in trying your luck?” asks Piyush Jagwani, a 21 year old BPO trainee from Delhi, who “loves to hook up with working on Facebook”. On several occasions he’s landed up on sex dates with these “gorgeous babes” often getting expensive gadgets and clothes as gifts.

Cafes, campuses and malls are brimming with youngsters out for fun. Though cinema halls, parks and motels are the most sought after places for frenzied lovers in small towns to “make out”, youngsters from urban zones prefer the sanctity of a friend’s place or tinted cars, and in some cases, where it’s allowed, their parent’s places. On an average, it takes four to five dates for a young couple to establish a physical relationship. An average girl would have atleast six to seven intimate relationships before she settles down. The headcount naturally goes way up for a man in his prime.

Inhibitions are shed as the veil of secrecy around sex lifts. Mike Vishwanathan, 26, from the Mumbai ad industry, chuckles as he recollects a drunken night when he and his girlfriend ended up in bed with another couple who were “already at it. My girl initially said no, but she gave in. The whole experience was so thrilling.”

Youngsters from college campuses in Bangalore, Mumbai and Delhi acknowledge that “sharing a hostel room is quite common among amorous couples.” In most cases, they confide about their past relationships to their current partner, but keep away the details. Most handle jealousy, suspicion and possessiveness with a maturity that one can only marvel at. “My girlfriend’s past doesn’t bother me, as long as she remains loyal,” says Mohit.

Is the shift, in part, because of a change in levels of tolerance and permissiveness in parents? Mumbai based Pramila N, mother of 20-year old Arunav, chats with her son’s girlfriend whenever she comes home, even rustles a quick meal for both. She does get “queasy” whenever they are locked up in the bedroom, but has no choice. “His father and I don’t like it, but we have to respect their privacy. Any kind of questioning will lead to confrontations,” she says.

Dr Ashum Gupta, dept of psychology, Delhi University, says, “Most of the parents have had a liberal upbringing. Cities have become so unsafe, they would rather have them together under the same roof than let them ‘do it’ at unsafe places.

But there’s no overlooking the downside of such freedom. Here romance is a quickfire round of questions on one’s likes and hobbies, eye contact means “your place or mine” rather than love sonnets, and a lover’s touch is just a call away! As it happened with second year BA student Tanya Srinath. The youngster and her boyfriend of three years “have done it all so often that I get a yucky feeling when he kisses me.”

Explains Dr Jitendra Nagpal, psychiatrist, Moolchand Medcity, Delhi, “The kind of freedom they are exposed to can be overkill. Burnout is inevitable for a generation on autopilot. The ‘been there done that’ mantra leaves youngsters insecure and frustrated with life, work and relationships.”

In that case, it’s for these youngsters to decide where to draw the line and master the balancing act.

P.S: From a tiny Atom to a mighty heavenly body in the Cosmos, Everything has got its influence on one or other; we don't know whether planets have got their influence on our lives as per the Astrology, but certainly the company we keep has got a lot of influence on our lives, especially in Decision Making. Unless we strengthen our own intellectual faculty to discriminate what is right or wrong, we won't be able to make right decisions. Even God says to use the intellect rather than blindly accept what he said.

"Every Cause has its Effect." - Gautama Buddha/Adi Shankaracharya
 
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