No Rligion--Any takers?Who will bell the cat?

[SuryaKasyapa]

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I am providing a link to Times of India today(27th Dec 09). front page article " no religion please...."


Welcome - Times Of India ePaper

No religion please, we're liberals - Mumbai - City - The Times of India.

There are many advocates seen in this site and forum for abolition of caste, and are there any who want to abolish religion? Who will bell the cat? The trickle is seen.Can there be avalanche? Can it be practical?

I hope a lot of real productive and positive comments will flow.

Greetings.

 

[RVR]

This type of odd news is always highlighted.

Dravidian movement in Tamilnadu wanted abolish religions, particularly Hindu religion. But what happened now. Even the younger generation DMK leaders have become staunch followers of Hindu religion.

I don't think religions will not be abolished in the near future. People don't want to give up even caste. One can think of abolishing religion only after eradicating caste first. I don't we will see the same in the immediate future.

All the best

 

[suvarchas]

This type of odd news is always highlighted.

Dravidian movement in Tamilnadu wanted abolish religions, particularly Hindu religion. But what happened now. Even the younger generation DMK leaders have become staunch followers of Hindu religion.

I don't think religions will not be abolished in the near future. People don't want to give up even caste. One can think of abolishing religion only after eradicating caste first. I don't we will see the same in the immediate future.

All the best

In my opinion,caste or religion can never be eradicated.Probably we have to recognise that only the differences between the castes and religion can be made to be better understood so that people appreciate each other better

 

[Raghy]

Sri.Suryakasyapa asked:-

"There are many advocates seen in this site and forum for abolition of caste, and are there any who want to abolish religion? Who will bell the cat? The trickle is seen.Can there be avalanche? Can it be practical?"

Sri. Suryakasyapa Sir,

Greetings to you.

I do not wish to follow any religion. I do adovacate against all religions. I would welcome it if the religions are abolished.

The bell is already tied to the cat. In Australia 19% of the population declared in their census forms that they don't follow any religion and it is growing. Further 12% belongs to persons have not stated and have not clearly stated about their religious followings.

Australia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Religion Report - 4 July 2007 - Religion in the Australian census; the Samaritans in Israel

It seems to be practical in Australia.

Cheers!

 

[C RAVI]

We could have a wonderful and peaceful world

IF..........

Not a single Hindu claims himself/herself as Hindu
Not a single Muslim claims himself/herself as Muslim
Not a single Christian claims himself/herself as Christian
Not a single other religion people identify themselves with their religion

Among millions of people surviving in this world with different religions, it may take millions of years for such changes to take place.

Might be that would be the DOOMSDAY.....

 

[Raghy]

Sri Ravi,

I don't think it will take millions of years for the religions to vanish. It may happen within the next 100 years (provided dec21st 2012 is a hoax!). In my opinion it will be very voilent and devastating. Hopefully at the end the religions may vanish altogether.

Cheers!

 

[C RAVI]

Sri Ravi,

I don't think it will take millions of years for the religions to vanish. It may happen within the next 100 years (provided dec21st 2012 is a hoax!). In my opinion it will be very voilent and devastating. Hopefully at the end the religions may vanish altogether.

Cheers!

Sre Raghy ji,


Having discussed with many known people here in Dubai on the great event predicted to happen on 21st Dec, 2012 in a casual and funny manner, I could come to know that many are of the opinion -

"America has crossed all the limits of Atrocities with in and outside. Thus the doomsday would be only for America. The violent and devastating calamity would occur in such a way that America would almost be out of the World Map. And that is the time when India would be the Super Power Nation, leading the rest of the world"

How interesting is that????

 

[SuryaKasyapa]

Sri.Suryakasyapa asked:-

"There are many advocates seen in this site and forum for abolition of caste, and are there any who want to abolish religion? Who will bell the cat? The trickle is seen.Can there be avalanche? Can it be practical?"

Sri. Suryakasyapa Sir,

Greetings to you.

I do not wish to follow any religion. I do advocate against all religions. I would welcome it if the religions are abolished.

The bell is already tied to the cat. In Australia 19% of the population declared in their census forms that they don't follow any religion and it is growing. Further 12% belongs to persons have not stated and have not clearly stated about their religious followings.

Cheers!

Why at all should be a question on religion? Why can,t it be removed wherever it is used now? That is what I meant who will bell the cat?
Individuals are ready. Caste /Religion is only forced on one and reminded by forcing to choose and select and declare.If this goes it will automatically facilitate further smoothness.

Greetings

 

[Raghy]

Why at all should be a question on religion? Why can,t it be removed wherever it is used now? That is what I meant who will bell the cat?
Individuals are ready. Caste /Religion is only forced on one and reminded by forcing to choose and select and declare.If this goes it will automatically facilitate further smoothness.

Greetings

Sri. SuryaKaysyaba Sir,

Greetings to you too Sir.

Let me be honest with you, please. I would have loved yourself and your opposite pole Sri. Nara to be my mentors when I was young.

Respectable Sir,

Question on religion is only compulsory in India. Not in western countries. My wife refused to fill religion column for our son. The school accepted that. The question on religion can't be removed. There are people like Jehowa Witnesses. Sri. SuryaKaysyaba, you are such a great person, I even mentioned JW in the same sentence. I am sorry. I really like you Sir.

Sir, countries like Australia likes to know who doesn't believe in Religion any more; hence the question. Removing the question on religion may not give the true picture about the ones who don't follow any religion, Sir. I think , that question is releavent.

Sri. Kaysyapa Sir,

As an individual, I know you are ready for a positive change. That's why I admire you all the time. Respectable Sir, in India, the political parties benefitting from gullible are not ready; they will not dare remove the religion and caste question from any application. Forward thinking caste brahmins too pay the price. Sri.Nara, where are you? Kindly come to this thread, please. I like to know your learned opinion on this please.

Cheers!

 

[Raghy]

Sre Raghy ji,


Having discussed with many known people here in Dubai on the great event predicted to happen on 21st Dec, 2012 in a casual and funny manner, I could come to know that many are of the opinion -

"America has crossed all the limits of Atrocities with in and outside. Thus the doomsday would be only for America. The violent and devastating calamity would occur in such a way that America would almost be out of the World Map. And that is the time when India would be the Super Power Nation, leading the rest of the world"

How interesting is that????

Sri.Ravi,

Not interesting at all. In spite of debatable foreign policies, Americans are really good people. I have spoken to few of them. I will not accept anybody thinking ill for the Americans; I am sorry, mate! Do you know that the Americans are biggest charity providers for the last .....years? I left the gap... you can fill any figure! Americans are some of the nicest people I have met. India does not want a glory at the cost of America, mate! My friend the day America goes down (May God forbid), India will go down too. Sorry!

Cheers!

 

[happyhindu]

i suppose its like a hobby for some to blame politicians, everything, everyone, when it comes to any topic under the sun.....

Coming to the topic anyways, i think when it comes to relgious doctrines, all religions fall into the same basket.

In some religions, extremists like taliban and jihadists are visible to the eye, because their violence is open to the eyes of the world to see.

But in some religions, extremist sections are present, but well masked from the public eye. Extremism can also take on an intellectual form, not a physical form.

There are a growing number of chrisitans who are getting 'debaptized'. There are muslims who are apostate, having turned into just "theists" or "atheists" and no longer considering themelves muslim.

Personally, i think ppl who delve into scriptures well enuf, will reject the concept of religion. Because truly, all religious doctrines promote an "us versus them" mentality.

Was watching an episode of "out of egypt" in history channel - they showed how the mitra cult of rome vanished and got taken over by christianity - simply bcoz the mitra cult chose to be "exclusive' while christianity, that made no diff in "class" made it have mass appeal...

Religions will keep arising from cults, they will keep undergoing change / transformation, they will keep producing literature to keep up with changing times, and eventually the ones with mass appeal will survive...

To me, all religions are the same to me.

when it comes to poetry in the vedas, i do think they belong to the whole world....

and i do not know if those hymns (on creation of the world, theism, agnosticism, etc) in the vedas can come under the purview of "religion".

to me, those compositions are just inspired poems by inspired bards...if sri hariharan were to live in an age where sanskrit was the common language, and if he were to write in sanskrit, he too wud be called a vipra, an inspired poet. It does not matter that he writes in english in this age, he still is a vipra..

 

[SuryaKasyapa]

Sri Raghy,
Tks for the sentiments expressed.

After a lot of churning the cream comes out separated. Discussion is a sort of churning of opinions. Finally the cream will come out. By then even the residue is cool and consumable.

Co existence within differences is the beauty of peaceful living. In India, we have that.---Unity in Diversity- eventhough here and there some aberrations are there.
The relative peace in a plural society is obvious. The people have to be vigilant against the deliberate incursions to abort this unity.

Respected HH ,

I appreciate your points in discussions.

Religion : "Matham"-- means opinion. Different religions originated from different opinions or view points.

But" Madham" (the 3rd soft sound in Tha) means "Ahamkar". Feeling that I only am right.
It also has a meaning - a destructive disorder like ''Madham puditha Yaanai"

The first Matham is welcome ,as far as it does not give way to the second and third version.

Saha naavavathu,.................. Om Shaanthi Shaanthi Shaanthih.


Greetings

 

[happyhindu]

Respected HH ,

I appreciate your points in discussions.

Religion : "Matham"-- means opinion. Different religions originated from different opinions or view points.

But" Madham" (the 3rd soft sound in Tha) means "Ahamkar". Feeling that I only am right.
It also has a meaning - a destructive disorder like ''Madham puditha Yaanai"

The first Matham is welcome ,as far as it does not give way to the second and third version.

Saha naavavathu,.................. Om Shaanthi Shaanthi Shaanthih.


Greetings

Dear Sri Suryakashyapa Ji,

Thank you for the note. I understand and accept the message.

I can only hope that the same applies to the likes of Saptha and Jamadagni too. As well as those who are quick to jump to support their viewpoints. As much as my views can be considered biased, am sure theirs too can be considered the same way.

Peace.

 

[pannvalan]

Even when Dravidian movement was at its peak, in 1960s, the womenfolks at the house of the dravidian leaders were following all kinds of religious traditions with all seriousness. When questioned, these leaders replied that they respect all women in general and do not interfere with their beliefs and customs and try to impose their (the males) ideologies on them. Thus, it was just a farce and set to deceive the gullible masses.

The leaders and the commoners belonging to other faiths, namely, Christiantiy and Islam continued to remain in Dravidian parties, but did not give up any of their religious identities.

As far as Mu Ka and ilk are concerned, only Hindus do not exist. Gods of other religions always exist.

He constructed a new house in Velachery in early 1990s, for his son Stalin, as per Vaasthu specifications. It is reliably learnt that some of his consultants and aides told him (Mu Ka) that only because of his atheistic stance, he lost CM's post twice and his government also dismissed.

It is also told he (Mu Ka) invited some brahmin pandits and conducted some atonement ceremonies (parihaarams), as per their advice. It was after this time, he started wearing 'yellow saalvai' regularly, in public.

That is history.

My viewpoint is, why shun religion as a whole? Accept only those good aspects from each religion which look fair, just, equitable and are in tune with modern times, without compromising on the basic values of the mankind (or Dharma).

Kannadasan has mentioned in his "Arthamulla Indu Matham" that it is atheists who think and talk about God more, as compared to the real believers.

Let us be very practical.

 

[Raghy]

Sri.Pannvalan asked:-

"My viewpoint is, why shun religion as a whole? Accept only those good aspects from each religion which look fair, just, equitable and are in tune with modern times, without compromising on the basic values of the mankind (or Dharma)."

Sri.Pannvalan Sir,

Religions are marketed as the nourishment to enhance the moral and spiritual values. If such a product contains impurities; if such a product itself is morally corrupt with lies; if such a product does not promote harmony with other human beings, then such products should be dumped altogether, in my opinion.

The good aspects in a religion is subjective. What is good for you in Hinduism will not be good for a Christian or a Muslim. As per Muslims and Christians, their holy book is the word of God and nothing can be changed.

None of the religion is honest. All the religion promotors are crooks since they are dishonest. (Kindly don't tell me that I sound like EVR or k. Viramani or such ilks; I will seriously get offended if compared with such dishonest crooks).

If a person is serious about acheiving self realisation, then following any religion will get him/her there. So, I decided not to follow any religion.

Cheers!

 

[Nara]

...Sri.Nara, where are you? Kindly come to this thread, please. I like to know your learned opinion on this please.

What? Learned opinion? You have high hopes Raghy

As for plain old opinions, no problem, I will give mine, after all, as Tip O'Neil used to say, we all have the right to our own opinions, but not to our own facts

First, thanks goes to Suryakasyapa for the link, a wonderful story. If it is technical problem, then they need to fix that problem in stead of forcing the couple to make a ridiculous choice.

It is funny that people of religion make fun of the hypocrisy of DK/DMK leaders. Their hypocrisy neither proves or disproves any positive or negative role religion or faith in prayers to a personal god may play in society. Further, their main fight is against caste system and because of that they focus their energies against Hinduism. Within the confines of their own religion, Muslims treat their umma as all brothers, and Christians are also at least supposed to -- they may not and that is for another time. So, asking DK/DMK to criticize non-Hindu religions is disingenuous.

Here, let me cite a personal story. There was some community project in Nangainallur for which government approval was need and was getting delayed. The Brahmins of Nangainallur wrote out an appeal to MK, who was CM at that time, and got an appointment to present the petition personally. It seems MK wrote on the petition, "அந்தணர்கள் வாழுமிடம், பார்த்து ஆவன செய்யவும்". I know MK is a scoundrel, so take this episode for what it is worth.

Here, criticizing EVR for hypocrisy is unfair. He has never been a hypocrite. He did not hesitate criticizing anything that he thought of as superstitions. He openly criticized the much ballyhooed Karpu of Tamil culture. He even called Tamil, காட்டு மிராண்டிகள் மொழி. Except for his visceral hatred for Brahmins, probably caused by personal slights against him, he was a revolutionary in the true sense of the word.

According to Richard Dawkins, the one who wrote the fantastic book "The Selfish Gene" (I recommend this book very highly to everyone), and the somewhat entertaining "God Delusion", one of the worst forms of child abuse is to label them as belonging to a particular religion. He advocates teaching them about religion, the good, the bad, and the ugly, and leave it up to them to decide when they grow up. It looks like this is exactly what this couple chose, and I salute them for it.

Cheers!

 

[renuka]

I dont know too much about EVR but i am under the impression that he did not openly critisize Islam.
Correct me if I am wrong.
You know I tend to agree with Pannvalan ji that the minds of most atheist are actually focused on God more than those who believe in God.
Remember the whole Sishupala episode in Mahabharat where Lord Krishna explains to Yudhishthira about the light that emits from Sishupals slained body and merges with Lord Krishna.
(I also know he was actually Dwara Paalaka Vijaya waiting to be released)

You know most athiest i know only find fault with Hinduism openly. They DARE NOT openly critisize other religions.
Because there wont be a head on their shoulders after doing so.
Hindus given in too much at times.
Religion is man made to a ceratin extent to reach God.
For example Lord Budhha did not come to create or start a new religion.
His followers did.
Like I follow teachings of Sathya Sai Baba many people tell me I am a follower of "Babaism".
How silly of them isnt it?
Sanathana Dharma interprated differently is called Hinduism, Christianity, Islam, Buddhism etc.
Its just like the story of the 4 blind men and the elephant. each interprating the same elephant differently.
We all need religion till the day we are beyond religion.
Religion is merely a tool to realize God.

 

[anandb]

Shri. Raghy

You seem to have an wholesale opinion on religion. May be there are instances which has left you jaded or disillusioned and probably you can quote them. I am briefly giving my views here to your opinions.

Sri.Pannvalan asked:-

"My viewpoint is, why shun religion as a whole? Accept only those good aspects from each religion which look fair, just, equitable and are in tune with modern times, without compromising on the basic values of the mankind (or Dharma)."

Sri.Pannvalan Sir,

Religions are marketed as the nourishment to enhance the moral and spiritual values. If such a product contains impurities; if such a product itself is morally corrupt with lies; if such a product does not promote harmony with other human beings, then such products should be dumped altogether, in my opinion.

Why do you categorize all religions as one? What made you conclude that this product has impurities and is morally corrupt?

The good aspects in a religion is subjective. What is good for you in Hinduism will not be good for a Christian or a Muslim. As per Muslims and Christians, their holy book is the word of God and nothing can be changed.

You said it right but this is not a valid reason to shed religion. Even religion cannot fool the people all the time. There are fanatical elements in all religions but thankfully the moderates are more, otherwise the world would have ceased to exist by now. So when Islam or Christianity says their god is the only one there are plenty of logical minds in those religions which still believes this cannot be true. But they can still be following the other good tenets of their religion. Hinduism, thankfully has said this from the beginning. There is no place for dogmatic beliefs here. If someone is still clinging on to dogmatic beliefs then he has to correct his mind and not religion.

None of the religion is honest. All the religion promotors are crooks since they are dishonest. (Kindly don't tell me that I sound like EVR or k. Viramani or such ilks; I will seriously get offended if compared with such dishonest crooks).

This is a huge sweeping statement just like the one EVR made on brahmins or the Tamil language. As I have made this comparison, you have every right to get offended. To make a choice of "no religion" is your choice which anyone would respect. But to call the other side as crooks and dishonest is an insult to the millions who do follow religion.

If a person is serious about acheiving self realisation, then following any religion will get him/her there. So, I decided not to follow any religion.

This is your choice and I don't have any comments.

Cheers!

 

[pvraman]

Hello,

My NB friend says, if they don't have fear in God, our people would have been barbarians. The way they do atrocities, only fear in god seems to be keeping the society safe (moderately). It was his response when i told him that nowadays I see lot of temple goers than anytime before.

IMHO, Once the religions are abolished, it will be a smooth express way towards barbarism and people do crime and all type of sins without any need to justify.

Cheers,

 

[pvraman]

Sri Raghy Ji,

Sri.Pannvalan asked:-

Religions are marketed as the nourishment to enhance the moral and spiritual values. If such a product contains impurities; if such a product itself is morally corrupt with lies; if such a product does not promote harmony with other human beings, then such products should be dumped altogether, in my opinion.

Cheers!

My personal opinion is that, Veda Dharma, if considered as religion, the product as a core is good, the people who makes it impure should be corrected or learned persons should contribute to the elimination of the impurities.

Regards

 

[pvraman]

Dear Smt Renuka Ji,

I dont know too much about EVR but i am under the impression that he did not openly critisize Islam.
Correct me if I am wrong.

I remember to have read somewhere that, in one of his meetings in Trichy (railway workers), he asked the people to convert to islam.

Sanathana Dharma interprated differently is called Hinduism, Christianity, Islam, Buddhism etc.
Its just like the story of the 4 blind men and the elephant. each interprating the same elephant differently.
We all need religion till the day we are beyond religion.
Religion is merely a tool to realize God.

I hope you have left the 5th blind man deliberately, who stepped on the elephant's கழிவுகள். .

Regards

 

[anandb]

Dear Renukaji,

I dont know too much about EVR but i am under the impression that he did not openly critisize Islam.
Correct me if I am wrong.
You know I tend to agree with Pannvalan ji that the minds of most atheist are actually focused on God more than those who believe in God.
Remember the whole Sishupala episode in Mahabharat where Lord Krishna explains to Yudhishthira about the light that emits from Sishupals slained body and merges with Lord Krishna.
(I also know he was actually Dwara Paalaka Vijaya waiting to be released)

You know most athiest i know only find fault with Hinduism openly. They DARE NOT openly critisize other religions.
Because there wont be a head on their shoulders after doing so.
Hindus given in too much at times.
Religion is man made to a ceratin extent to reach God.
For example Lord Budhha did not come to create or start a new religion.
His followers did.
Like I follow teachings of Sathya Sai Baba many people tell me I am a follower of "Babaism".
How silly of them isnt it?
Sanathana Dharma interprated differently is called Hinduism, Christianity, Islam, Buddhism etc.
Its just like the story of the 4 blind men and the elephant. each interprating the same elephant differently.
We all need religion till the day we are beyond religion.
Religion is merely a tool to realize God.

You said it so right. In Hinduism, you don't have punishment for personal beliefs. Your good and bad karma guides you. I don't have problems with criticizing Hinduism objectively but then name calling and a cursory dismissal of religion is something I cannot digest personally.

When Sanatana Dharma started it was not even called a religion because there was only one. As the Acharya said only if there are many boys called Rama, there will be a necessity to differentiate between them with nicknames like kuttai rama or nettai rama. What will cease to exist is superstitions, dogma and irrational ism and religions which support these beliefs. Finally it may come to one Universal Religion or Sanatana Dharma or one Consciousness but it will still have the good tenets as advocated by all religions.

 

[Raghy]

Disclaimer:- The message posted below is my personal stand regarding religions. I am not trying to impose my ideas to anybody. I am a humanist. I will protect others in conducting their religious rites as long as that does not harm anyone else.

Sri.Anand,

“This is a huge sweeping statement just like the one EVR made on brahmins or the Tamil language. As I have made this comparison, you have every right to get offended.”

:violin:

“To make a choice of "no religion" is your choice which anyone would respect. But to call the other side as crooks and dishonest is an insult to the millions who do follow religion”.

Religions are not the personal properties of the followers; only the followers belong to respective religions. I did not mention anything about the followers; did not criticise the followers. Why my POV should be an insult to the followers?

“Why do you categorize all religions as one? What made you conclude that this product has impurities and is morally corrupt?”

Greetings Sri Ananad! Yes I do have a ‘wholesale’ opinion about all religions. All religions have few things in common- every one of them is man made; every one of them have one or more Gods created by men; every one of them was made for gullible persons. So, all religions are placed under the same category.
Hinduism preaches that God as ‘Paramatma’ dwells in every living thing, certainly in every human; in that regard, irrespective of the ‘jeevatma’ realised that fact or not, still all the human beings should be considered equal. But the same Hinduism divided the society in four varnas (I am not even touching Jatis yet) and made followers of one varna as the ‘servant’ class for all the other three. So, which one is the lie? Is it the varna classification or paramatma dwelling in every person? I just wrote one point. I can write more points. One needs only one drop of impurity in the milk for the whole milk to get contaminated.

I can show about other religions too from their holy book. Sir, do you really like to see that? If you do, provide me your email Id. I will send them to you.

“……But they can still be following the other good tenets of their religion. Hinduism, thankfully has said this from the beginning. There is no place for dogmatic beliefs here. If someone is still clinging on to dogmatic beliefs then he has to correct his mind and not religion”.

Sir, kindly make up your mind. If there is no place for dogmatic belief in Hinduism, how can someone ‘still cling on to dogmatic beliefs’?


Cheers!

 

[Raghy]

Sow.Sri.Renukakarthikayan,

"You know most athiest i know only find fault with Hinduism openly. They DARE NOT openly critisize other religions.
Because there wont be a head on their shoulders after doing so."

Sow.Renukakarthikayan,

I am not athiest; I am a humanist. I criticise all religions. In fact, I am known in the internet forums as the criticiser of Islam. (Yes, I am taking the risk; yes, I have received warnings over the phone already). Here I do not have a muslim or Christian to criticise their respective religions.

Cheers!

 

[Raghy]

Sri.Nara,

"It is funny that people of religion make fun of the hypocrisy of DK/DMK leaders."

I make too.

"Further, their main fight is against caste system and because of that they focus their energies against Hinduism."

Really!? Since when? DK talk ill about only brahmins; when did they talk ill of the high caste hindus with regards to caste discriminations perpetrated against Dalits by Nadar, Gownder, Naicker(!) and mudaliyar castes?

"Within the confines of their own religion, Muslims treat their umma as all brothers,"

Since when? DAWN.COM | Metropolitan | Suicide attack on Ashura procession kills 30 in Karachi
(that is for today; there is one almost everyday anyway).

"Here, criticizing EVR for hypocrisy is unfair. He has never been a hypocrite. He did not hesitate criticizing anything that he thought of as superstitions."

EVR was a hypocrite. He criticised brahmins only because he knew his skin will be safe. He did not dare criticise his own caste, and the other major high castes. as per supersitions, his ideas were limited to only brahmins rituals. He did not dare criticise Islam or Christianity. He did not deserve to be called a rationalist. He had personal vendeta against brahmins. The movement for lower caste and Harijans was already being pushed by Gandhi and Ambedkar. EVR fished in troubled waters.

Cheers!