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Mythology

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Nacchinarkiniyan

Well-known member
An interesting read about Mythology is by the Greek Philosopher Lucian
(Born about 120 a.d., died about 200.)

This is called Of Liars and Lying. Not the entire text, but only an excerpt.

Tychiades. Philocles, what is it that makes most men so fond of a lie? Can you explain it? Their delight in romancing themselves is only equaled by the earnest attention with which they receive other people's efforts in the same direction.

Philocles. Why, in some cases there is no lack of motives for lying—motives of self-interest.

Tychiades. Ah, but that is neither here nor there. I am not speaking of men who lie with an object. There is some excuse for that: indeed, it is sometimes to their credit, when they deceive their country's enemies, for instance, or when mendacity is but the medicine to heal their sickness. Odysseus, seeking to preserve his life and bring his companions safe home, was a liar of that kind. The men I mean are innocent of any ulterior motive: they prefer a lie to truth, simply on its own merits; they like lying, it is their favorite occupation; there is no necessity in the case. Now what good can they get out of it?

Philocles. Why, have you ever known any one with such a strong natural turn for lying?

Tychiades. Any number of them.

Philocles. Then I can only say they must be fools, if they really prefer evil to good.

Tychiades. Oh, that is not it. I could point you out plenty of men of first-rate ability, sensible enough in all other respects, who have somehow picked up this vice of romancing. It makes me quite angry: what satisfaction can there be to men of their good qualities in deceiving themselves and their neighbors? There are instances among the ancients with which you must be more familiar than I. Look at Herodotus, or Ctesias of Cnidus; or, to go further back, take the poets—Homer himself: here are men of world-wide celebrity, perpetuating their mendacity in black and white; not content with deceiving their hearers, they must send their lies down to posterity, under the protection of the most admirable verse. Many a time I have blushed for them, as I read of the mutilation of Uranus, the fetters of Prometheus, the revolt of the giants, the torments of hell; enamored Zeus taking the shape of bull or swan; women turning into birds and bears; Pegasuses, Chimæras, Gorgons, Cyclopes, and the rest of it; monstrous medley! fit only to charm the imaginations of children for whom Mormo and Lamia have still their terrors. However, poets, I suppose, will be poets. But when it comes to national lies, when one finds whole cities bouncing collectively like one man, how is one to keep one's countenance? A Cretan will look you in the face, and tell you that yonder is Zeus' tomb. In Athens, you are informed that Erichthonius sprang out of the earth, and that the first Athenians grew up from the soil like so many cabbages; and this story assumes quite a sober aspect when compared with that of the Sparti, for whom the Thebans claim descent from a dragon's teeth. If you presume to doubt these stories, if you choose to exert your common sense, and leave Triptolemus' winged aerial car, and Pan's Marathonian exploits, and Orithyia's mishap, to the stronger digestions of a Corœbus and a Margites, you are a fool and a blasphemer, for questioning such palpable truths. Such is the power of lies!

Philocles. I must say I think there is some excuse, Tychiades, both for your national liars and for the poets. The latter are quite right in throwing in a little mythology: it has a very pleasing effect, and is just the thing to secure the attention of their hearers. On the other hand, the Athenians and the Thebans and the rest are only trying to add to the luster of their respective cities. Take away the legendary treasures of Greece, and you condemn the whole race of ciceroni to starvation: sightseers do not want the truth; they would not take it at a gift. However, I surrender to your ridicule any one who has no such motive, and yet rejoices in lies.

Tychiades. Very well: now I have just been with the great Eucrates, who treated me to a whole string of old wives' tales. I came away in the middle of it; he was too much for me altogether; Furies could not have driven me out more effectually than his marvel-working tongue.

Philocles. What, Eucrates, of all credible witnesses? That venerably bearded sexagenarian, with his philosophic leanings? I could never have believed that he would lend his countenance to other people's lies, much less that he was capable of such things himself.

Tychiades. My dear sir, you should have heard the stuff he told me; the way in which he vouched for the truth of it all too, solemnly staking the lives of his children on his veracity! I stared at him in amazement, not knowing what to make of it: one moment I thought he must be out of his mind; the next I concluded he had been a humbug all along, an ape in a lion's skin. Oh, it was monstrous....

"When I was a young man," said he, "I passed some time in Egypt, my father having sent me to that country for my education. I took it into my head to sail up the Nile to Coptus, and thence pay a visit to the statue of Memnon, and hear the curious sound that proceeds from it at sunrise. In this respect, I was more fortunate than most people, who hear nothing but an indistinct voice: Memnon actually opened his lips, and delivered me an oracle in seven hexameters; it is foreign to my present purpose, or I would quote you the very lines."

...
 

vijisesh

Active member
Mr.Nacchi , One more thread ! ( Noola vidareer !)

Took some time to go thru the above excerpt , HISTORY was never
my piece of cake at school !
Anyway I suppose the above passage is establishing the following points that :

1) There are Lies in Mythologies told by MEN and if the truth of which had been questioned during the time prevalent , the questioner could be called a blasphemer or he could lose his lies and this was a regular practice of the poets and story tellers

2) There are other MEN who are frolic which are innocent and without an ulterior motive , just romancing themselves over this fine art !!

Also this " harmless lie telling " has been found to be common with MEN !

Is the above synopsis , correct ? Pl give me a feedback , further to which
" The discussion can begin !!!"

Thanks
 
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Nacchinarkiniyan

Nacchinarkiniyan

Well-known member
You are right. I like the dialogues of the Greek philosophers. I only wish we had a transcript of all the debates between our Rishis.

I posted it so that we will understand that this question about Mythology has been discussed for the last 2000 years. It should make us think.

I do not think we are going to find an answer in the next 1000 years.
 

vijisesh

Active member
Yes , that would be quite interesting !
and talking of mythology ,
what are ur views of Nadi Jothidam !
It is said that some of the sages like agasthiyar , viswamithrar predicted and have written a few lines about the Lifes of future generations !
Could it be true ?
 
S

s007bala

Guest
Tanjore District

Yes , that would be quite interesting !
and talking of mythology ,
what are ur views of Nadi Jothidam !
It is said that some of the sages like agasthiyar , viswamithrar predicted and have written a few lines about the Lifes of future generations !
Could it be true ?

Shri vijisesh

Nadi Josiam is an in-explicable art form for me.I had an oppurtunity to visit Vaithieswaran Koil,and nearby hamlets where Nadi Josiam is practiced.My Sales associate influenced me to visit one of the practioners.Before even i could say anything,the nadi josiar requsted me to have a dip in the pond of VK temple.So,i went,but thought i will just wash my legs and return.But Lord Vaithieswaran had other plans for me.As soon as i stepped in the steps of the Kulam,i slipped due to moss growth and got fully drenched from head to foot.Quickly i realised,the Lord was having fun with me and having hearty laugh at my expense.

I got a reading as well Shanthi Pariharam Kandam.Believe me,most of the obstacles started dissappearing in my life and a renewed strength of faith was born again for me for Lord Kapaleeswarar and Ambal.

Nadi Josiam charts matched exactly with the computer charts,and prayed to Sage Agastiar for his wonderful seerness.

sb

:)
 

agopal

Active member
Does nadi josiam talk only about one's past deeds or is there some concrete statements about the future?

Thanks,
Gopal
 
S

s007bala

Guest
future

Does nadi josiam talk only about one's past deeds or is there some concrete statements about the future?

Thanks,
Gopal

Shri Gopal

For me,the future predictions have come true and continues to be true.Dunno about other's.Anyways i consulted four Nadi Josiars including the above mentioned place.Its my nature to compare,and cull the information.All four with very minor difference were more or less,on the dot.Maybe i am lucky...all guru's arul.

sb

:)
 

sridharvasudevan

Active member
Anything that is not perceivable to (a) the human mind currently is myth. Any myth which has had the power to kindle strong curiosity and interest gets passed on through generations. Eventually generations later when there have been very less people who have perceived or realized it as truth, it is called mythology.

Naadi Jyothidam is one such, though I have never tried it out personally, I believe in its truth and efficacy. Simply because, the ones who wrote it (or made them materialize), were great rishis. The concept that there is a design behind everything, which is strongly believed by spiritualists, strengthen my belief in it.

It is easy for a rationalist to term all that he/she understands as real history and all that he/she still does not understand or believe as mythology.

The same goes for our great epics, Ramayana and Mahabaratha. Would Dwaraka be neglected under the sea if it were in the USA? I guess, we would have an underwater glass tunnel walk through promoting tourism, that would showcase the great history of that part of the world. The same goes for many other historic places in and around India.
 
S

s007bala

Guest
>>Anything that is not perceivable to (a) the human mind currently is myth. Any myth which has had the power to kindle strong curiosity and interest gets passed on through generations.<<

Shri Sridhar

There are many incidents which has happened,that i cannot perceive nor give a valid scientific explananation.Bhagavan Sathya Sai Baba has performed so many miracles,so much so,i have stopped telling.Because nobody will believe me or it was done specifically for me only.Gods are mysterious.Mahaswami simply blessed a tumbler of milk and sent it to a patient.The doctors were stunned at the recovery and were loss of words to explain.

Just because we cannot understand or perceive,in my opinion,we ought not to trash incident as myths or made up concoctions.I truly believe saints,siddhars,avatars ....of even present day bharatham,are just awesome.One must have faith,un-flinchingly when being tested from time to time.

:) sb :)
 

Seshadri Subramaniam

Well-known member
Anything that is not perceivable to (a) the human mind currently is myth.

Myths are sort of folk lore legends that are(or were) passed orally; there is obviously an element of poetic exaggaration involved in it... and the fact that oral communication remains pretty vulnerable to distortions is another factor in discarding them as fantasies or unreal.

If it is not perceivable means that it is not imaginable... it is not so...

Also the theory that myths and legends are false is stemmed from the Western view where they tend to have chronicles which act as the basis (whether the written piece is true or not is a different subject altogether!!!). They were unaware of our rigorous methods and hence conveniently labelled them as fabrications. How else could they establish their supremacy?

Naadi Jyothidam is one such, though I have never tried it out personally, I believe in its truth and efficacy. Simply because, the ones who wrote it (or made them materialize), were great rishis. The concept that there is a design behind everything, which is strongly believed by spiritualists, strengthen my belief in it.

It is quite difficult to place nadi jodhidam actually - it is a combination of texts based on thumb impression, and some common identifying factors (like name of the individual, spouse or parents/brothers/sisters etc)

It is a process of trial and error until they get the "olai" which suits... but surprisingly, you can get the horoscope accurately (in some cases, there might be minor differences) among other details...

Again, the interpretation is very crucial here... a wrong reading or a different understanding could be quite misleading...

I guess nadi jodhidam is for the individual to test it out and opine.
 
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happyhindu

Well-known member
Dear SV-ji,

i often believe if India wanted to survive, it can do so on tourism alone. Just as you mention Dwaraka, am thinking of the ramar sethu. India cud have certainly made millions by promoting it as a tourism package, helped save the environment and certainly prevented unwanted unnecessary tensions. Just see how Thailand promotes things associated with the Ramayana - they even have a version that Ramayana happened there, just as some Indonesians who believe Ramayana happened in Indonesia.

Reminds me of Jackie Chan who took a broom and swept an area in a temple and said he cudn't beleive indians were so careless about their monuments or something to like that / to that effect.

Unfortunately, we indians love to blame the government for our own short comings, behave as indisciplined as possible, vote crooks to run our show called an assembly / parliament and then talk big about our so-called ancient greatness :frusty:

And look at how we show our greatness - starve the fellow indian of education but promote our puffed up selves outside the country: http://www.dnaindia.com/report.asp?newsid=1214632
 
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sridharvasudevan

Active member
Dear Bala,

I must apologize for not being more clear. My posting below actually is written with the same un-flinching belief that you have just said. Only that my "sarcasm" for the rationalist who terms these as "myth" and "mythology" was not highlighted well. In doing a bad job of highlighting, i guess i have offended u. sorry again.

Dear Seshadri,

You words are very closely representing my thought process.


Dear HH,

It's true our neighbouring countries do a better job in preserving the so called Hindu epic based monuments than in India. Even Sri Lanka does a good job at it. Sri Lanka has a temple for Sita, Ashoka vana is preserved, Ravana's cut (rock cliff) is preserved, Ravana's hot springs (seven hot springs from seven arrows within just 2400 sq ft of area) are preserved. So many more....

on a lighter note...i would definitely vote for Rama if he was one of the candidates, but i havent found any close to him though i have voted every time.
 

happyhindu

Well-known member
:)

And i wud hv voted for Krishna too, even if He had killed my father like say Chanoora. Whoever spoke the Gita cud not have been ordinary at all, irrespective of whether or not the Gita was included in the Mahabharat at a later date...
 
S

s007bala

Guest
>>Reminds me of Jackie Chan who took a broom and swept an area in a temple and said he cudn't beleive indians were so careless about their monuments or something to like that / to that effect.<<

Shrimathi H H

Reminded me of my daughter and neighbors son.When there was torrential rain in our area,our roads were flooded,the cars motoring on the road were having tuff time.My daughter & my friends son,immediately took a shovel clearing the clog of debris ,from the storm drainage.I was stunned.In India,like a moron,i wud be expecting Corporations guys to come and fix it,and cussing all politicians,gods,gurus...et al,like a bum.

This is the greatness of America.Values get imparted in a unique manner.

:) sb :)
 

TNVRAMAN

Member
Information Requested About Naadi Astrologers

I am Venkat and I need information about Naadi Astrologers, their location, fees, the procedure, etc etc...

Myths are sort of folk lore legends that are(or were) passed orally; there is obviously an element of poetic exaggaration involved in it... and the fact that oral communication remains pretty vulnerable to distortions is another factor in discarding them as fantasies or unreal.

If it is not perceivable means that it is not imaginable... it is not so...

Also the theory that myths and legends are false is stemmed from the Western view where they tend to have chronicles which act as the basis (whether the written piece is true or not is a different subject altogether!!!). They were unaware of our rigorous methods and hence conveniently labelled them as fabrications. How else could they establish their supremacy?



It is quite difficult to place nadi jodhidam actually - it is a combination of texts based on thumb impression, and some common identifying factors (like name of the individual, spouse or parents/brothers/sisters etc)

It is a process of trial and error until they get the "olai" which suits... but surprisingly, you can get the horoscope accurately (in some cases, there might be minor differences) among other details...

Again, the interpretation is very crucial here... a wrong reading or a different understanding could be quite misleading...

I guess nadi jodhidam is for the individual to test it out and opine.
 
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