Maya

[renuka]

Share:

Facebook X (Twitter) WhatsApp Email Share Link

Thanks Renuka So what's your conclusion, that I should read brahmasutra?

YES..all of us must and should.

 

[sravna]

YES..all of us must and should.

And let me add, also really understand

 

[C RAVI]

Shri Sravna,

I went through all the posts exchanged between yourself and Renuka. From your post what I could understand clearly is that -

Nirguna Brahman being a timeless entity beyond space and time and the only absolute reality does not perceive the physical reality. But being the absolute conscious and a blissful reality, knows everything happening in this physical reality and any other reality if that exists (other than this physical world). Thus Nirguna Brahman for whom time and space bounded physical reality comprising of animate and inanimate forces are not the reality, has nothing to perceive about physical reality. Nirguna Brahman is the absolute higher spiritual reality and need not to depend on physical perception, being beyond space and time, not being the start and not being the end.


It is Saguna Brahman who perceives this physical reality as a lower spiritual reality entangled with MAYA, comprising animate and inanimate forces.

Thus, can we say that Saguna Brahman administers MAYA on this physical reality for the purpose of gaining the true knowledge/wisdom , understanding the actual bliss, gaining self realization and get liberated once for all? As such spiritual practices with devotion to Saguna Brahman would be enough to work towards self realization and attain the state of Jeevan Muktha.

 

[sravna]

Shri Sravna,

I went through all the posts exchanged between yourself and Renuka. From your post what I could understand clearly is that -

Nirguna Brahman being a timeless entity beyond space and time and the only absolute reality does not perceive the physical reality. But being the absolute conscious and a blissful reality, knows everything happening in this physical reality and any other reality if that exists (other than this physical world). Thus Nirguna Brahman for whom time and space bounded physical reality comprising of animate and inanimate forces are not the reality, has nothing to perceive about physical reality. Nirguna Brahman is the absolute higher spiritual reality and need not to depend on physical perception, being beyond space and time, not being the start and not being the end.


It is Saguna Brahman who perceives this physical reality as a lower spiritual reality entangled with MAYA, comprising animate and inanimate forces.

Thus, can we say that Saguna Brahman administers MAYA on this physical reality for the purpose of gaining the true knowledge/wisdom , understanding the actual bliss, gaining self realization and get liberated once for all? As such spiritual practices with devotion to Saguna Brahman would be enough to work towards self realization and attain the state of Jeevan Muktha.

Dear Ravi,

We are trying to understand something from the disparate pieces of knowledge we have. I don't think a consensus has emerged. But what you say is what I meant.

 

[C RAVI]

Dear Ravi,

We are trying to understand something from the disparate pieces of knowledge we have. I don't think a consensus has emerged. But what you say is what I meant.

Thank you for your feedback on my understanding of your POV., Shri Sravna..

Yes, a consensus might not have emerged. But from my side, I would say that what you have tried to put forward in your attempts to understand MAYA and under whose purview is she, seems to be much convincing.

 

[ozone]

came across this:

Here are some of the more common reasons why people criticize.

* Out of jealousy. When others are jealous of your work, they will criticize with the intent of damaging your self-esteem. It is usually easy to spot this motivation because the critic will usually have something to gain by your failure.

* Out of anger or frustration. Often when someone gets frustrated they misdirect their frustration and start playing the blame game. This blame is dished out in the form of undue criticism. This kind of criticism can easily be identified by the tone and the words used to criticize.

* Concerned for one's own interest. People have different tastes and preferences. Some critics will criticize based on their own personal preferences. Take for example someone who hires an artist to paint a portrait. The one who is being painted is justified in criticizing the work based on his own personal preferences, since the work was specifically done for him.

* Concerned for your best interest. Criticism made by parents, loved ones, or good friends is usually done with your best interest in mind. This is important to realize because it is this group of "critics" that are usually the most resented for their criticism.

 

[renuka]

Shri Sravna,

I went through all the posts exchanged between yourself and Renuka. From your post what I could understand clearly is that -

Nirguna Brahman being a timeless entity beyond space and time and the only absolute reality does not perceive the physical reality. But being the absolute conscious and a blissful reality, knows everything happening in this physical reality and any other reality if that exists (other than this physical world). Thus Nirguna Brahman for whom time and space bounded physical reality comprising of animate and inanimate forces are not the reality, has nothing to perceive about physical reality. Nirguna Brahman is the absolute higher spiritual reality and need not to depend on physical perception, being beyond space and time, not being the start and not being the end.


It is Saguna Brahman who perceives this physical reality as a lower spiritual reality entangled with MAYA, comprising animate and inanimate forces.

Thus, can we say that Saguna Brahman administers MAYA on this physical reality for the purpose of gaining the true knowledge/wisdom , understanding the actual bliss, gaining self realization and get liberated once for all? As such spiritual practices with devotion to Saguna Brahman would be enough to work towards self realization and attain the state of Jeevan Muktha.

Brilliant Ravi...you have summarized the whole discussion.
So since this is clear now and we all agree to this..may be the next question can be framed.

 

[sravna]

Thank you for your feedback on my understanding of your POV., Shri Sravna..

Yes, a consensus might not have emerged. But from my side, I would say that what you have tried to put forward in your attempts to understand MAYA and under whose purview is she, seems to be much convincing.

Thanks Ravi. You wrote a very lucid summary

 

[C RAVI]

Thank you, dear Renuka and Shri Sravna..

Shall we proceed with understanding if Vidya and Avidya are separate from MAYA or this is what is called MAYA?

 

[renuka]

Thank you, dear Renuka and Shri Sravna..

Shall we proceed with understanding if Vidya and Avidya are separate from MAYA or this is what is called MAYA?

You can start Ravi..for today I am done.I am mentally exhausted.

 

[sravna]

Thank you, dear Renuka and Shri Sravna..

Shall we proceed with understanding if Vidya and Avidya are separate from MAYA or this is what is called MAYA?

If avidya translates as ignorance, then I would think avidya is the effect of maya

 

[C RAVI]

If avidya translates as ignorance, then I would think avidya is the effect of maya

Dear Sarvna,

Yes, Avidya is ignorance and Vidya is knowledge. And Avidya is the effect of Maya.

What exactly I want to ponder over is - Is MAYA just a cause of Avidya, acting as a shielding agent against Vidya, misleading the mental faculties OR MAYA = AVIDYA?

 

[nannilam_balasubramanian]

One should not get enmeshed in Maya. The life, body and death are
all Maya and in fact to weep on the death of someone is nothing but ignorance
according to our Hindu Scriptures.

Balasubramanian
Ambattur

 

[sravna]

Dear Sarvna,

Yes, Avidya is ignorance and Vidya is knowledge. And Avidya is the effect of Maya.

What exactly I want to ponder over is - Is MAYA just a cause of Avidya, acting as a shielding agent against Vidya, misleading the mental faculties OR MAYA = AVIDYA?

Dear Ravi,

Two effects are attributed to maya:

1. It projects the physical reality
2. It veils the spiritual reality

The second is what leads to avidya or ignorance. So maya is something more than causing avidya.

 

[C RAVI]

Dear Ravi,

Two effects are attributed to maya:

1. It projects the physical reality
2. It veils the spiritual reality

The second is what leads to avidya or ignorance. So maya is something more than causing avidya.

Exactly Shri Sravna!!!!

Maya projects the physical reality and makes it appear existing in real

Having done that,

Maya veils the spiritual reality and poses challenges to jeevathmas, keeping them ignorant.

And thus, I am of the opinion that, we can very well consider MAYA as a distinct entity that can not be related to any sort of knowledge and ignorance. The potent Force, called MAYA, just plays tricks between the two.

 

[sravna]

Exactly Shri Sravna!!!!

Maya projects the physical reality and makes it appear existing in real

Having done that,

Maya veils the spiritual reality and poses challenges to jeevathmas, keeping them ignorant.

And thus, I am of the opinion that, we can very well consider MAYA as a distinct entity that can not be related to any sort of knowledge and ignorance. The potent Force, called MAYA, just plays tricks between the two.

Dear Ravi,

Consider this. Nirguna brahman is the highest reality. There are lower level realities and this starts with saguna brahman. The existence of lower realities as projections is an illusion for nirguna brahman . At the level of saguna brahman thinking begins. If you consider saguna brahman's role, it is first one of creation. Creation happens because all the effects in the spiritual reality which reside in one cause are separated into basic elements such as the panchabhootha and trigunas.

We can think of this separation happening because saguna brahman wills it to happen. The will of saguna brahman thus acts as a prism separating the effects from the cause. The separation is in such a way that the basic elements interact to produce further causes and effects and evolution and self realization also happens with respect to a number of souls At some point, the basic elements are taken back into the spiritual reality by the will of saguna brahman.

 

[sarma-61]

If we take this approach are we not all just fools dressed as scholars talking to ourselves? Surely we have insights to share that have merit and value. I for one enjoy your posts Sri Sarma and would never consider your opinions as such whether I agree with them or not!

Shri Sankara sir,

You will kindly observe that my remarks (even if they were somewhat sharp) were not omnibus, covering all the discussions in this forum. But, regarding advaita and mAyA the discussions in this thread seem to be emanating out of a mere superficial knowledge of the topics. Hence my comments. I agree that all of us may have some knowledge but it should not lead us to conclude that we have "insights" on each and every topic. That will make us write on each and every thread and topic and spoil the show.

For example, on topics which I do not know, I do not make posts but only read.

Hope I have clarified my position.

 

[sravna]

Shri Sankara sir,


For example, on topics which I do not know, I do not make posts but only read.

Hope I have clarified my position.

Better still I would not even pass a comment. Because that would mean I know something.

 

[sarma-61]

authoratative : (of a text) Considered to be the best of its kind and unlikely to be improved upon

Sorry sir, I don't have a dictionary with the word "authoratative". The ones that I do have, give the following meanings for the word "authoritative":

1. Having authority or ascendancy or influence,
2. Of recognized authority or excellence,
3. Sanctioned by established authority, etc.

 

[sravna]

Sorry sir, I don't have a dictionary with the word "authoratative". The ones that I do have, give the following meanings for the word "authoritative":

1. Having authority or ascendancy or influence,
2. Of recognized authority or excellence,
3. Sanctioned by established authority, etc.

I do not want to engage in any silly discussions. Thank you

 

[sarma-61]

Dear Sravna,

I would like to add a little on the meaning of the word Nir in Sanskrit.

Ok lets take this word Mala(impurity)

Vimala=Without Impurity

Amala=Absence of Impurity

Nirmala=Beyond Impurity.

See the fine differences in the meaning.

In Vimala and Amala it denotes that there has been a previous state where there has been impurity(impurity was experienced) but now there isnt any impurity as in Without(Vimala) and Absence(Amala)

Nirmala on the other hand means Beyond Impurities that means there was never a time where impurity was experienced.

Same with Nirguna..there has never been a Time where the Gunas were experienced.Hence Nirguna Brahman..described as ever pure, all knowing and Timeless.

So now I hope its clear what it means by being beyond anything.

निर्धूम - smokeless
निर्धन - without money
निर्मल - free from impurities
निर्गुण - devoid of all qualities and properties

These are the authoritative (MWD) meanings pl.

 

[sarma-61]

Sri Sravan,I have a feeling I will be scorned for saying this, but saying it with good intentions.
(If you would want the post to be deleted, let me know and I will do it).
Your Post #139 - I see that you are not separating the wheat from the chaff.


If as you intended in:

were complied with by Sri Sarmaji, then you should have continued with those arguments and views
and if needed asked for references. Instead you only said

apparantelyl, you asked for a view or explanation and summarily dismissed it without any arguments,
which imo does not go well with the discussion.

Shri ozone,

I have been reading the threads/posts by Shri Sravna for quite some time now; I have also taken the trouble to read right from his very first post, by going to his profile page!

He seems to have an OCD regarding advaita, mAyA, reality levels,unreal reality and real unreality and what not. But his ego prevents him from seeing the truth. Let it be so. I am now just enjoying all this blah blahs here. Thank you.

 

[sarma-61]

YES..all of us must and should.

You should also read "adhyAsa bhAshya" before discussing about mAyA. One url I just googled is this:

Brahma Sutra Bhashya

 

[sravna]

Dear Shri Sarma,

I have been reading your responses to my posts too. Whenever I say it is x because of y, instead of your response being why it cannot be x or the why the premise of y is wrong, you just say, it is not x because you have not read the vedas. That's funny. At least why don't you share with us your knowledge of vedas or at least teach us some logic.

 

[sarma-61]

Dear Shri Sarma,

I have been reading your responses to my posts too. Whenever I say it is x because of y, instead of your response being why it cannot be x or the why the premise of y is wrong, you just say, it is not x because you have not read the vedas. That's funny. At least why don't you share with us your knowledge of vedas or at least teach us some logic.

Shri Sravna sir,

I don't know where and when I said I have not read the vedas(you just say, it is not y because you have not read the vedas.). If you will kindly provide one or two links, it will be very helpful to refresh my memory.

Since you have been here for longer time than I have been, you will surely know that advaita was discussed here once or twice in the past (and possibly you also contributed to those, but I am not sure).

I am unable to give you anything from my side because I find that when I once pointed out that we are going astray from whatever was there originally in Sankara's exposition, you said you are not in favour of strait-jacketing. Now, lately when I gave what I could understand and assimilate, from some of the learned Brahmins with whom I came in contact, you threw it out saying it is cooked up by me.

I have spent some considerable time in trying to know about advaita, myself being supposed to be an adviatin smArta brahmin, and have learned certain things, may not be completely. According to what little I have understood, and as I have already said, this concept of mAyA/adhyAsa/adhyArOpa/avidyA has been the major weak point of advaita and the main point on which VIsishtadvaita emerged as its competitor.

I have earlier written more on the above, but generally I find such contributions are sidelined. I may be able to type up afresh, given some time.