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Marriage mantras in grhya sutras..

Agnihotram rAmAnuja tattacharyar's book 'Hindu matham enge pogirathu' was discussed in U2Brutus channel. The idea it propagated was in a vedic marriage ceremony, the priest wants to have a sexual relationship with the bride..

First point is in his book Agnihotram rAmAnuja tattacharyar highlighted how priests who have no idea of the meaning of mantras blabber something and used the Rg veda Mandala 10 Hymn 85 verse 37 as an example.

Rgveda Mandala 10 hymn 85 talks about savitar sending his daughter surya as bride to soma, in the 'car' of asvin, with asvin as the bridesmen and this marriage of soma and surya producing all the beings of the earth, resting on the 'dharma'.

In science we can visualize it as Sun, a Main sequence star (savitar) emitting its solar energy (surya) transported through the electromagnetic field (asvin), which reaches the moon (soma), whose reflection on the earth, produces all the beings of the earth, based on the laws of the Universe (dharma).
In some grhya sutras (which are texts that contain mantras for various household ceremonies, which are taken from vedic scriptures), this hymn is recited during marriage.

Soma (moon here as a male) is telling the approaching energy of sun, the Surya (here as a female), the following

The verse is this
tÀm pUsan chivata mÀm erayasva yasyÀm bIjam manuSyÀ vapanti yÀ na UrU uZatI vizrayÀte yasyÀm uzantaH praharÀma zepam. The meaning is this ' that (tAm) Pusan/nourisher (puSan) takes (civata) my (mAm) vigor /power (vayasva) whose/which (yasyAm) seed (bIjam) human (manuSya) they sow (vapanti) our that (yah na) large/thighs (uru) beautiful/attractive/pure (uzati) recourse/dependent (vizrayate) which (yasyam) they attract (uzanta)the enjoyer (praharama) penis (zepam).

The following is the translation from Ralph griffith.
37. O Pusan, send her on as most auspicious, her who shall be the sharer of my pleasures;
Her who shall twine her loving arms about me, and welcome all my love and mine embraces (with many doubtful derivations according to my understanding)

My translation
(Let) me (soma) take that nourisher (puSan) power, (the light energy), which sows seeds of human beings, (on) our that large attractive dependence, which attracts (my power) enjoyer penis. Soma is invoking the nourisher's power to sow the seed of human beings on its larger dependent earth, that attracts its energy/moon light (penis).(With some doubtful derivations)

In many grhya sutras (which are mantras used during house-hold ceremonies from vedic scripures), this mantra is introduced as the one to be recited by a male getting married during his marriage. The idea is like soma, a male invokes the puSan and use that power to produce his offspring (like earthlings).

Since priests started officiating and saying mantras on behalf of bride and groom, when they say these mantras, the situation becomes non-sensical. This is what rAmAnuja tattacharya points out in his book. He says brahmins have stuck to mantras without understanding their meaning and in the changed context of them reciting the mantra without the groom saying it, it looks ike a brahmin priest saying this to a female.

So prakash has omitted (or he is not aware) the point made by rAmAnuja tattacharyar here on the non-applicability of this mantra by the priest.
Prakash makes it look like (or thinks so like many others) that vedic scriptures say the officiating priest is supposed to say all these towards the bride. That's not true.

This is exactly what rAmAnuja tattacharyar warns about and tells priests to be careful of what they recite.

So there are two errors in this.
1. No this mantra is not supposed to be said by a priest. (to be said by a groom instead). And that's the point ramanuja tattacharya makes.
2. Then this hymn is in the context of a marriage between soma and surya in Rg veda, which grhya sutras use in a marraige. These nuances are not discussed and it is painted as if 'vedas' are talking about marriage of human beings. No vedic scriptures do not talk of marriage between human beings.

Sanatana dharma is not a ‘mata’ of just some random faiths and beliefs. It is a dharma of knowledge where questioning has to be met with answers. A real service to sanatana dharma or vedic understanding is to investigate these questions, find the answers and respond

The video referred is this
 
These sort of anamolies and disputes and doubts can be removed if the mantras are simple, easy to understand by everyone present in the ceremony. Mantras recited if not understood and followed, then what is the use of it. It's like a blind hen gulping the food (Thavitu in tamil-- Kuruttuk kozhli thavitai mulunginalpola) we have to recite it and proceed. Let the hymns be in tamil or english or anyother language which can be understood by both bride and groom. Then only real sancity of marriage will happen and bear fruitful results...
 

renuka

Well-known member
Agnihotram rAmAnuja tattacharyar's book 'Hindu matham enge pogirathu' was discussed in U2Brutus channel. The idea it propagated was in a vedic marriage ceremony, the priest wants to have a sexual relationship with the bride..

First point is in his book Agnihotram rAmAnuja tattacharyar highlighted how priests who have no idea of the meaning of mantras blabber something and used the Rg veda Mandala 10 Hymn 85 verse 37 as an example.

Rgveda Mandala 10 hymn 85 talks about savitar sending his daughter surya as bride to soma, in the 'car' of asvin, with asvin as the bridesmen and this marriage of soma and surya producing all the beings of the earth, resting on the 'dharma'.

In science we can visualize it as Sun, a Main sequence star (savitar) emitting its solar energy (surya) transported through the electromagnetic field (asvin), which reaches the moon (soma), whose reflection on the earth, produces all the beings of the earth, based on the laws of the Universe (dharma).
In some grhya sutras (which are texts that contain mantras for various household ceremonies, which are taken from vedic scriptures), this hymn is recited during marriage.

Soma (moon here as a male) is telling the approaching energy of sun, the Surya (here as a female), the following

The verse is this
tÀm pUsan chivata mÀm erayasva yasyÀm bIjam manuSyÀ vapanti yÀ na UrU uZatI vizrayÀte yasyÀm uzantaH praharÀma zepam. The meaning is this ' that (tAm) Pusan/nourisher (puSan) takes (civata) my (mAm) vigor /power (vayasva) whose/which (yasyAm) seed (bIjam) human (manuSya) they sow (vapanti) our that (yah na) large/thighs (uru) beautiful/attractive/pure (uzati) recourse/dependent (vizrayate) which (yasyam) they attract (uzanta)the enjoyer (praharama) penis (zepam).

The following is the translation from Ralph griffith.
37. O Pusan, send her on as most auspicious, her who shall be the sharer of my pleasures;
Her who shall twine her loving arms about me, and welcome all my love and mine embraces (with many doubtful derivations according to my understanding)

My translation
(Let) me (soma) take that nourisher (puSan) power, (the light energy), which sows seeds of human beings, (on) our that large attractive dependence, which attracts (my power) enjoyer penis. Soma is invoking the nourisher's power to sow the seed of human beings on its larger dependent earth, that attracts its energy/moon light (penis).(With some doubtful derivations)

In many grhya sutras (which are mantras used during house-hold ceremonies from vedic scripures), this mantra is introduced as the one to be recited by a male getting married during his marriage. The idea is like soma, a male invokes the puSan and use that power to produce his offspring (like earthlings).

Since priests started officiating and saying mantras on behalf of bride and groom, when they say these mantras, the situation becomes non-sensical. This is what rAmAnuja tattacharya points out in his book. He says brahmins have stuck to mantras without understanding their meaning and in the changed context of them reciting the mantra without the groom saying it, it looks ike a brahmin priest saying this to a female.

So prakash has omitted (or he is not aware) the point made by rAmAnuja tattacharyar here on the non-applicability of this mantra by the priest.
Prakash makes it look like (or thinks so like many others) that vedic scriptures say the officiating priest is supposed to say all these towards the bride. That's not true.

This is exactly what rAmAnuja tattacharyar warns about and tells priests to be careful of what they recite.

So there are two errors in this.
1. No this mantra is not supposed to be said by a priest. (to be said by a groom instead). And that's the point ramanuja tattacharya makes.
2. Then this hymn is in the context of a marriage between soma and surya in Rg veda, which grhya sutras use in a marraige. These nuances are not discussed and it is painted as if 'vedas' are talking about marriage of human beings. No vedic scriptures do not talk of marriage between human beings.

Sanatana dharma is not a ‘mata’ of just some random faiths and beliefs. It is a dharma of knowledge where questioning has to be met with answers. A real service to sanatana dharma or vedic understanding is to investigate these questions, find the answers and respond

The video referred is this
Do you have the Devanagari version of the shloka?
 

renuka

Well-known member
Just to bring to notice,
You wrote this..
(Let) me (soma) take that nourisher (puSan) power, (the light energy), which sows seeds of human beings, (on) our that large attractive dependence, which attracts (my power) enjoyer penis. Soma is invoking the nourisher's power to sow the seed of human beings on its larger dependent earth, that attracts its energy/moon light (penis).(With some doubtful derivations)


It does make one wonder why Soma( the moon) is being invoked here.
According to some yoga tantra text, during the act of sexual intercourse the Ida nadi( moon channel) of the male is fully discharged..loses all its charge with each sexual act and would need to be recharged with the power of soma.

So makes sense that the moon is being invoked here.

I somehow prefer to use the word potency instead of penis when translating the word शेपम्( shepam) as penis is an external organ but potency its its dharma.
Just like how fire is external and heat is its dharma.
So the translation should focus more on the dharma rather than an organ.

Your translation could sound like this..

(Let) me (soma) take that nourisher (puSan) power, (the light energy), which sows seeds of human beings, (on) our that large attractive dependence, which attracts my potency.
 
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