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Magic
- Thread starter fire
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Close this thread immediately
I request the Administrators to close this thread immediately as it is relating to one who is considered as an Avatara by many. This has been discussed so often.
I request the Administrators to close this thread immediately as it is relating to one who is considered as an Avatara by many. This has been discussed so often.
Quite Unfortunate
Its quite unfortunate to hear from NachinarkinianJi ( Meaning? A pleasant person to have friend with?) against the thread.For me Many consider him as an avatar is not a valid enough to make others shut their mouth.Entire world believed that the world was flat.I dont know any of Hindu saints like sankarachariyas,Vivekananda,Ramakrishna performed this kind of activities.According to physics I know this cannot be performed.I have respect for him for his social works. I may be wrong. But every news of magic by anyone worries me and hurts me as I suspect them to mislead others in the name religion.
If you are a judge in a court and if a case is filed against this kind activities , Will you go by the facts ?? Or will you close the case by giving the above reason?? If the answer to this question is 'yes' you can close the thread.
Its quite unfortunate to hear from NachinarkinianJi ( Meaning? A pleasant person to have friend with?) against the thread.For me Many consider him as an avatar is not a valid enough to make others shut their mouth.Entire world believed that the world was flat.I dont know any of Hindu saints like sankarachariyas,Vivekananda,Ramakrishna performed this kind of activities.According to physics I know this cannot be performed.I have respect for him for his social works. I may be wrong. But every news of magic by anyone worries me and hurts me as I suspect them to mislead others in the name religion.
If you are a judge in a court and if a case is filed against this kind activities , Will you go by the facts ?? Or will you close the case by giving the above reason?? If the answer to this question is 'yes' you can close the thread.
Dear Posters,
If you want to discuss whether magical feats in general are possible by spiritual people, then this topic is useful.
To those who know the art of using Siddha related powers these "magical" feats are quite possible, from what I have read.
So if you want to know whether such "feats" are possible - I'd recommend you read Autobiography of a Yogi.
But if you want to discuss Sai Baba per se, I suggest you do not continue with this discussion.
Some people believe in him and some others don't.
So, some are going to say yes, some are going to say no. What are you going to do about it?
If you want to make up your mind about him please read up about him, visit his ashrams and come to a first hand conclusion about whether you should believe or not.
If you can discuss spiritual feats WITHOUT discussing Sai Baba you can continue with this thread. If you think that will be hard to do then I will close it.
Regards,
Chintana
If you want to discuss whether magical feats in general are possible by spiritual people, then this topic is useful.
To those who know the art of using Siddha related powers these "magical" feats are quite possible, from what I have read.
So if you want to know whether such "feats" are possible - I'd recommend you read Autobiography of a Yogi.
But if you want to discuss Sai Baba per se, I suggest you do not continue with this discussion.
Some people believe in him and some others don't.
So, some are going to say yes, some are going to say no. What are you going to do about it?
If you want to make up your mind about him please read up about him, visit his ashrams and come to a first hand conclusion about whether you should believe or not.
If you can discuss spiritual feats WITHOUT discussing Sai Baba you can continue with this thread. If you think that will be hard to do then I will close it.
Regards,
Chintana
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The western world has reluctantly started accepting that there are many things that can not be explained scientifically. Then there are skeptics.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychic
These are now called psychic powers and extra sensory perception. A number of books are available in the market. A number of terms have been coined for these powers. The Russian Intelligence and CIA are into it in a big way for using these powers for military purposes.
Powers like stopping a clock and bending spoons have been demonstrated successfully.
Indian Yogis have proved that they can control their bodily functions. The use of meditation to generate bodily heat is well known. The Indian and Eastern Yogis who have a number of powers are not interested in proving their abilities to the West. They are only interested in Spirituality.
There is no logic behind this. No one has proved scientifically that there is GOD. That does not mean that GOD does not exist. You believe in GOD or you do not.
The same is the case with what you called "siddu velais". IMO this is a contemptuous term used by people who do not know or understand what Siddhis are. What I do not know does not exist is not a good policy.
Hindus in general believe in
1.GOD
2. Existence of Ashtama Siddhis
3. Efficacy of the mantras to attain worldly objects and spirituality.
and so on.
None of these can be proved scientifically or by western logic. That is more of an indication of the limitation of these.
We should not fall into the trap of "What I believe is Belief, What you believe is Superstition".
No one can convince a skeptic.
BTW I am not a follower of Sathya Sai Baba.
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Science Vs ???
Sir,
ESP i guess its not based on science i guess. Science tries to explain the world around you. Do you thing if there is a contradiction between a belief and science will you accept your belief? Sure there would be thousands of novels or research around that.But that doesnt prove its existence.
God cannot be explained by science.But believing in God is different from
believing in extra human powers that violates nature's laws. Science cannot disprove God also. But a scientist can negate the statement that one can get something out of vacuum.If It happens it should be explained in a scientific way (like Pillaiyar pal kudithal incident
. With whom should we agree? Science or the Rumours?).
If one can stop a clock and bend a spoon he can commit any crime and escape from the court of justice? Do you really believe its happening or can it happen? How much heat or energy would it be required to bend a spoon?How their body sustain it?
Should science and logic be branded as 'western'??Its not about proving to the west. Why not with a group of Indian scientists?? Let them discover new laws.
If a person claims himself God Can we believe him?
If Siddhis are possible why should we go to schools and study logic ? We can get everything from Siddhis.If one can create an object he can create tons of rice to resolve the poverty in the country. If one is really not Siddhar and there is a doubt she/he has to prove it .Then we can rewrite the science.
For me it looks unfortunate people tend to believe more on Siddhi works rather than his knowledge , moral behaviours and his work.
On reciting mantras , It should it be left to once own experience as it is not harming anyone.
Thanks,
Fire
Sir,
ESP i guess its not based on science i guess. Science tries to explain the world around you. Do you thing if there is a contradiction between a belief and science will you accept your belief? Sure there would be thousands of novels or research around that.But that doesnt prove its existence.
God cannot be explained by science.But believing in God is different from
believing in extra human powers that violates nature's laws. Science cannot disprove God also. But a scientist can negate the statement that one can get something out of vacuum.If It happens it should be explained in a scientific way (like Pillaiyar pal kudithal incident
. With whom should we agree? Science or the Rumours?).If one can stop a clock and bend a spoon he can commit any crime and escape from the court of justice? Do you really believe its happening or can it happen? How much heat or energy would it be required to bend a spoon?How their body sustain it?
Should science and logic be branded as 'western'??Its not about proving to the west. Why not with a group of Indian scientists?? Let them discover new laws.
If a person claims himself God Can we believe him?
If Siddhis are possible why should we go to schools and study logic ? We can get everything from Siddhis.If one can create an object he can create tons of rice to resolve the poverty in the country. If one is really not Siddhar and there is a doubt she/he has to prove it .Then we can rewrite the science.
For me it looks unfortunate people tend to believe more on Siddhi works rather than his knowledge , moral behaviours and his work.
On reciting mantras , It should it be left to once own experience as it is not harming anyone.
Thanks,
Fire
Science versus Religion
As I read the above posting, my mind went back to the state of Physics prior to Maxwell's famous equations concerning Electromagnetism.
If I remember correctly, one of the meetings of Royal Physical Society had concluded that whatever worthwhile to be discovered in Physics had already been discovered! Little did they know that a couple of revolutionary ideas by Einstein and Schrodinger would change the entire course of Physics.
Science evolves based on constant hypothesis, validation, universalization and discovery. It is a never ending process. While various 'beliefs' held by religion (mainly Christian church) eventually were disproved by Science (flat earth, planets revolving around earth etc.) we should not forget that eventually the same Church adopted Science as a part of their theology.
Such is not the case with other religions, especially Judaism and Hinduism. There are quite developed logical and scientific traditions in Hinduism. While currently a part of Islam is in the throes of not accepting the scientific exploration, it was not always so in that religion in the past. In fact many a new concepts in science (expecially mathematics) came about during the glory days of Islam, with it's sponsorship.
Science deals with the physical world. It will continue to deal with it till the end of time, because of certain obvious limitations. The observer is part of what is observed and as such can not go beyond a certain limits on imagination necessary to propose different hypothesis.
Certain Siddhi powers have been well documented and explored (please read 'Mysterios India' by Paul Brunton, the book where he 'discovers' Bhagawan Ramana on his experience with certain mystics in Egypt and in India). Can one scientifically prove these instances of Siddhi powers? I would imagine so, if we have the proper tools to scientifically examine them. I think we lack those tools today.
Just because one can not explain something scientifically does not mean that the phenomenon does not exist. There are umpteen number of physical miracles that happen everyday for which we still do not have any scientific explanations. For example, why does hair grow on a human body only on certain places? Science is after this, but I do not think it has an answer yet.
If someone 'believes' something contrary to what science has established, we would call them irrational. But if someone 'believes' in something, that is not yet proven scientifically, we can not call them irrational. We can only say that they are believers. And a person is no less a rational person for having such a belief based on faith.
Pranams,
KRS
As I read the above posting, my mind went back to the state of Physics prior to Maxwell's famous equations concerning Electromagnetism.
If I remember correctly, one of the meetings of Royal Physical Society had concluded that whatever worthwhile to be discovered in Physics had already been discovered! Little did they know that a couple of revolutionary ideas by Einstein and Schrodinger would change the entire course of Physics.
Science evolves based on constant hypothesis, validation, universalization and discovery. It is a never ending process. While various 'beliefs' held by religion (mainly Christian church) eventually were disproved by Science (flat earth, planets revolving around earth etc.) we should not forget that eventually the same Church adopted Science as a part of their theology.
Such is not the case with other religions, especially Judaism and Hinduism. There are quite developed logical and scientific traditions in Hinduism. While currently a part of Islam is in the throes of not accepting the scientific exploration, it was not always so in that religion in the past. In fact many a new concepts in science (expecially mathematics) came about during the glory days of Islam, with it's sponsorship.
Science deals with the physical world. It will continue to deal with it till the end of time, because of certain obvious limitations. The observer is part of what is observed and as such can not go beyond a certain limits on imagination necessary to propose different hypothesis.
Certain Siddhi powers have been well documented and explored (please read 'Mysterios India' by Paul Brunton, the book where he 'discovers' Bhagawan Ramana on his experience with certain mystics in Egypt and in India). Can one scientifically prove these instances of Siddhi powers? I would imagine so, if we have the proper tools to scientifically examine them. I think we lack those tools today.
Just because one can not explain something scientifically does not mean that the phenomenon does not exist. There are umpteen number of physical miracles that happen everyday for which we still do not have any scientific explanations. For example, why does hair grow on a human body only on certain places? Science is after this, but I do not think it has an answer yet.
If someone 'believes' something contrary to what science has established, we would call them irrational. But if someone 'believes' in something, that is not yet proven scientifically, we can not call them irrational. We can only say that they are believers. And a person is no less a rational person for having such a belief based on faith.
Pranams,
KRS
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N.R.Ranganathan
Active member
Dear Mr.Fire,
It is no magic. If you try you can also do similar things. But, it needs sadhana
for many years, but how long you will have to do depends upon your intensity
and concentration.
Please see Patanjali Maharishi's yoga sutra, particularly about siddhis . Sutra
47 of vibuthi pada says -thatho animaadhi pradhurbhava: / kaayasampath
thath dharmaan abhighaathach cha . It talks about yogi's animaathi ashta
maha siddhi like anima, mahima, lahima, karima, prapthi, praakaamyam,
vasithvam and eesithvam.
Sutra 1 of Kaivalya pada says - janma, oshadhi, mantra, thapa: samadhija;
siddhaya: This says some get such powers by birth, some through oshadi
and chemicals, some through mantras, some through tapas and some through
samaadhi.
Patanjali's is Raja yoga. You can get such powers through Hatha yoga
also. Please see yogi Swatmarama's ' Hatha yoga pradeepika '.
May I be permitted to point out that even recently we have seen such
great yogic powers of many realized men. I narrate some of them :
1. ThiruGnanasambandar and Thirunavukkarasar brought back to life dead
men by prayers .2. Sri Adi Sankara entered into the dead body of a King.
3. A miscreant cut one arm of Sri Sadasiva Brahmendra, but Brahmendra
did not even notice it and continued to walk. Astonished by the saint's
indifference, the miscreant ran after him and gave him the arm which
was severed and apologised .Sri Brahmendra took the arm and just fixed
it to the shoulder. Lo and behold ! There was not even a scar or any
mark of wound.
One can get such super-human powers through Raja Yoga. Some get it
through Gnana. But such realized people do not display it at all since this
is considered as hindrance to self-realization.
It is no magic. If you try you can also do similar things. But, it needs sadhana
for many years, but how long you will have to do depends upon your intensity
and concentration.
Please see Patanjali Maharishi's yoga sutra, particularly about siddhis . Sutra
47 of vibuthi pada says -thatho animaadhi pradhurbhava: / kaayasampath
thath dharmaan abhighaathach cha . It talks about yogi's animaathi ashta
maha siddhi like anima, mahima, lahima, karima, prapthi, praakaamyam,
vasithvam and eesithvam.
Sutra 1 of Kaivalya pada says - janma, oshadhi, mantra, thapa: samadhija;
siddhaya: This says some get such powers by birth, some through oshadi
and chemicals, some through mantras, some through tapas and some through
samaadhi.
Patanjali's is Raja yoga. You can get such powers through Hatha yoga
also. Please see yogi Swatmarama's ' Hatha yoga pradeepika '.
May I be permitted to point out that even recently we have seen such
great yogic powers of many realized men. I narrate some of them :
1. ThiruGnanasambandar and Thirunavukkarasar brought back to life dead
men by prayers .2. Sri Adi Sankara entered into the dead body of a King.
3. A miscreant cut one arm of Sri Sadasiva Brahmendra, but Brahmendra
did not even notice it and continued to walk. Astonished by the saint's
indifference, the miscreant ran after him and gave him the arm which
was severed and apologised .Sri Brahmendra took the arm and just fixed
it to the shoulder. Lo and behold ! There was not even a scar or any
mark of wound.
One can get such super-human powers through Raja Yoga. Some get it
through Gnana. But such realized people do not display it at all since this
is considered as hindrance to self-realization.
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