Maatha Pitha and then comes God !

[Balaji_Iyer]

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Hi All,

First of all let me tell you..i dont see Iyengar and Iyers as different. But the count of intercaste marriages are more in Iyengar comunity. If this keeps growing it would be very difficult to preserve the existence of Iyengars or Brahmans. This is my Concern not in anyways against the Iyengar community. For example, in Nanganallur a street full of Iyengars atleast one girl in a family is into intercaste marriage. This doesnt mean that Iyer girls are completely out of this statement, but the count is huge in number.

Boys - I am a neutral person, this is not only for girls but boys as well. Dont be attracted towards the NB beauties, do not let Kaamam control you. Give priority to parents and lets preserve the gift given by god to us of being a Brahman !

 

[s007bala]

Only if intercaste marriages takes place,then confusion of which caste will come.Only if confusion is there,political leaders will thrive.The education,is british style.What you sow as seed,the fruit will be .......

sb

 

[Balaji_Iyer]

yes that is the view of political leaders, but intercaste caste marriage is a kind of genocide.

One day when we look back, it shud not be like some one asking a question on who is brahman ?

 

[[email protected]]

Thankyou Sri Balaji Iyer, I also witnessed so many Iyengar girls married to othercaste boys, They never treat Iyers as Brahmins and they never take any thing from Iyers during festivel days and not allow small childs to eat those sweets etc., and they themselfs state they are pure and greateeees. But every one in Tamilnadu knows how they came and grow.

 

[happyhindu]

SR Krishnamurthy,

I do not know if you are one of those ppl who will not accept science as evidence. Nevertheless i request you to go thru this: http://www.ias.ac.in/jgenet/Vol86No3/189.pdf

Am reproducing a part:
"None or very little differentiation was found between the Bunts and Vokkaligas. Similarly, very low differentiation was apparent between the Lingayats and Iyengars. However, the largest differentiation was recorded between Smartha and Havyak populations on one hand, and the Iyengar population on the other. These results agreed with the genetic distances among the populations studied (table 2)...Iyengars have inherited a history of over 800 years and have absorbed members from various caste groups in the region over the centuries".

In most studies, Iyengars of Karnataka region were found to have resisted recent gene inflow into their population and showed accumulated allelic frequencies in their group - so much that they are regarded as a tribe instead of a caste by some quarters. I won't be surprised if they became a strongly endogamous group in the 10th century itself, because it takes time for such things to show up. It is ofcourse understood that the community took in members from various other communities, but not any more than other brahmins of other regions (you may wish to have a look at how much more varied the iyers or smarthas are).

It is pointless to cast unnecessary aspersions on people we do not like by associating them with their caste and making needless comments based on the same, resulting in further divisive tendencies. Kindly refrain from the same.

 

[Seshadri Subramaniam]

It is common knowledge that varna sankara was prevalent from the days of yore... scientific studies establish this through a systematic approach.

The results obtained on the samples from karnataka cannot also be generalized...

Also, can it not be natural for us to have a fair amount of allelic genes (looked up the definition from wiki)? Does it have to mean only cross-breeding (though it cannot be ruled out)?

Anyway, it is not about the genes, rather about the perception about how one feels towards the same community...

On the other hand, there are smarthas who would never accept Lord Narayana... philosophies have, even if not liberated everyone, done enough to preserve cultural identities... As in the olden days, brahmins probably did not face this kind of vendetta (as it is now)... hence, diversity was a natural outgrowth of the school to which they belonged to...

What is required now is a complete unity of tamil brahmins (as a start), irrespective of any further classifications...

 

[happyhindu]

Sesh,

1) Various dharmashastras or law books were perhaps (also) written to accomodate the growing variations in varnashankara in those times. Later perhaps the admixture became too many to be accomodated (?). I do not when the law books stopped getting written or if the stopage coincided with the incoming of various invasions.

2) All brahmins from all over india are likely not the same. Generally it is also seen in studies that brahmins of a given geographical location or region are similar to the local population of that region. Therefore i might consider brahmanism as a culture. Smarthas came into being around 500-700 AD. Prior to that buddhism had its strong hold and it may be possible those that became preachers and teachers in the buddhist traditions (from NB background) got classed or merged into the smartha system as brahmins.

3) Vedic traditions deified natural elements into human form (anthropomorphism) so much that it is sometimes impossible to differentiate b/w the human-form and the elemental (nature) form in the verses. Various traditions or sampradayas are probably derived from cultures as they evolved in a given region as regards interpretation. It is not necessary for everyone to agree to everyone's view. What is necessary is to accept the diversity (we see the rainbow as one, we do not seperate and see its colours seperately and call it a rainbow); and have unity in diversity. I completely agree with you on your last sentence.

 

[[email protected]]

Pattal thariyum papanuku.

 

[happyhindu]

SRK,

I do not know what you mean by the above. All i wish to say is that passing unnecessary comments do no good, that too within the same community. There is no one definition of a brahmin and there can never be. Even when the vedas have so many meanings for one word brahman (as atma, universe, etc), then how can we try to fit one definition for one word. All cultures are beautiful. Let us delight in them instead of making needless comments on other communities. Thankyou for bearing with me sir.

 

[s007bala]

I think this Vaishanava,Shaiva thingy was inculcated for competetion which got out of hand.Becoz its important to divide and rule.We conveniently blame or i at least blame,Isklam & Christanity,for ruling in 1000 years,but then prior 1000 years back the rule was Sanathana Dharma with various schools in it,influencing and ruling.This divide is much before,even before the birth of Abrahamic faiths.Its really not fair for me to hold a grudge against these folks,they i did go thru the emotions.Iyengar men and woemen,Iyer men and women,are similiar but not identical in cultural faith.Unity in diversity,should be the mottf course,i agree with esarkey about pattan thaan theriyum paapannukku,a time tested truth.

sb

 

[s007bala]

B I

>>One day when we look back, it shud not be like some one asking a question on who is brahman ?<<

A brahmana is one who is able to realise brahman.There is inheritance by birth,automatically.Yes,as Jathi Tamil Brahmins,a system of culture,is provided,to attain the spiritual knowledge going thru ashramas.Even amongst us,only a few of us,have the qualification to take responsibilty and lead that life.Rest of us,are more bothered of social status,wealth...and trying to compete in world.Our Gurus help,in our efforts.But when we go constantly to our gurus and pour out our problems to them,what will they do for their dyaanam?they are just as human as you and me.

sb

 

[Balaji_Iyer]

gurus,dyaanam,ashram

sb - please be clear. brahman is different, sadhu or sanyasi is different.
with clear thoughts a brahman gets the ability to solve his own problem, you become a guru for yourself. i request you to post points related to this thread, actually there is another thread for who is a brahman.

 

[s007bala]

B I

Brahman is god.For people its either Nirguna Brahman or Saguna Brahman.It appears Shri N's message is very contagious in this forum...ROFL.Matha Pitha Guru Athithi Deivam...what else i should write?Another one bites the dust,another one....

sb

 

[happyhindu]

Bala,

There is no necessity to refer to a name in a thread that is unrelated to that person and make unnecessary remarks. Sorry, but cudn't help interfering.

 

[s007bala]

re

Bala,

There is no necessity to refer to a name in a thread that is unrelated to that person and make unnecessary remarks. Sorry, but cudn't help interfering.

Shrimathi H H

Are you hero worshipping Shri N?I think Shri N is more than capable of defending himself.And yes,stop this nonsense of interfering and then saying i am sorry.Not only that,you yourself say that you are not Tamil Brahmin,and hang around us.Yes,now i being rude to you and ticking you off,as you unnecessarily are interfering with me!!I have already put Shri N,on my ignore list,but i see a trend,that every Rama Krishna Govinda...saying the same message of the "Thread Title"...ROFL...Oh Brahmana Engay Avan?

sb:bathbaby:

 

[Seshadri Subramaniam]

B I

Brahman is god.For people its either Nirguna Brahman or Saguna Brahman.It appears Shri N's message is very contagious in this forum...ROFL.Matha Pitha Guru Athithi Deivam...what else i should write?Another one bites the dust,another one....

sb

Quite true sb... parallel discussions in thread are just as natural as anything else...

We should relax our guard down a bit to allow others to speak up (even if it be our thread) and express themselves... otherwise, we would onlybe shepherding them, albeit in a different way...

 

[happyhindu]

Shrimathi H H

Are you hero worshipping Shri N?I think Shri N is more than capable of defending himself.And yes,stop this nonsense of interfering and then saying i am sorry.Not only that,you yourself say that you are not Tamil Brahmin,and hang around us.Yes,now i being rude to you and ticking you off,as you unnecessarily are interfering with me!!I have already put Shri N,on my ignore list,but i see a trend,that every Rama Krishna Govinda...saying the same message of the "Thread Title"...ROFL...Oh Brahmana Engay Avan?

sb

Is there something wrong in hero-worship? Yes i know everyone is capable of defending themselves. Having to deal with very many elderly relatives, i also know that their levels of being sensitive is higher than us younger ones, and they find it awkward to deal with brash ones like us. If interefering and then saying sorry affects you, then ok i take back the sorry part.

When you say "hang around us", what exactly do you mean? Does this forum belong to you alone? There are better things to do in life than "hang around you". Sure i shall attempt to never "hang around you" anymore.
Am not going to include "hang around you people" bcoz there is no reason why i should not consider the likes of some folk like saab and desi as brahmins at all (they were here before you came, you can look up old threads).

And did i tell you that i have completely no tambram or anybram descent anytime? I choose to call myself a shudra coz i know myself perfectly well and i understand various brahmanical traditions well enuf to understand that more than half the people hanging out here are like those title hunters of the past that want the brahmin title but do not want to live the brahmin life.

 

[s007bala]

Shrimathi H H

So,now you want to pick on me on behalf of Shri N.Ya,i do not like Shri N's condescending attitude,and picking on me.Its between Shri N and me.Who are you,in between?Like a kabab may haddi!

Since you have mentioned now,that you have traces of Jathi Brahmin genes,so i understand you better.Sometimes,ignorance is the cause.You are being emotional with Shri N,thats good.But dont tell me,how i should feel,and then say sorry.Now that you have taken the 'sorry' off,the mask you were putting on is ripped.Good.

This brahmin life,are you living one first?Do make judgements of this nature!I know i am not,and i will not.Becoz,the society is different and by nature,i am more a Vaishya.This is my self analysis.But,i go by my elders,friends,society...then i am Tamil Brahmin.

After coming to USA,technically i am English Brahmin.My children are English Brahmin.So,a new Jathi which was already existing in USA,i have joined.

So,Thai KUlamay, (ie Mata ) plz shut up and stop interacting with me (ie Pitha).,so that forum memebers especially the thread owner ( ie Guru ) and the forum members ( ie Deivam or god ) are in state of bliss.

sb

 

[happyhindu]

Shrimathi H H

So,now you want to pick on me on behalf of Shri N.Ya,i do not like Shri N's condescending attitude,and picking on me.Its between Shri N and me.Who are you,in between?Like a kabab may haddi!

Since you have mentioned now,that you have traces of Jathi Brahmin genes,so i understand you better.Sometimes,ignorance is the cause.You are being emotional with Shri N,thats good.But dont tell me,how i should feel,and then say sorry.Now that you have taken the 'sorry' off,the mask you were putting on is ripped.Good.

This brahmin life,are you living one first?Do make judgements of this nature!I know i am not,and i will not.Becoz,the society is different and by nature,i am more a Vaishya.This is my self analysis.But,i go by my elders,friends,society...then i am Tamil Brahmin.

After coming to USA,technically i am English Brahmin.My children are English Brahmin.So,a new Jathi which was already existing in USA,i have joined.

So,Thai KUlamay, (ie Mata ) plz shut up and stop interacting with me (ie Pitha).,so that forum memebers especially the thread owner ( ie Guru ) and the forum members ( ie Deivam or god ) are in state of bliss.

sb

Bala,

You wrote to me with only one part on Sri-N. The other part was about directly me. I have no necessity to be emotional with anyone. Do i know you or Sri-N personally? And do i care at all?

Bala, let me tell you this once and for all: I consider people who talk about "brahmin genes" as utter and total fools. I completely dislike being called a brahmin, jati brahmin or whatever stuff in any form. i know what i am and i am not inclined to give anyone the right to define stuff abt me.

And if you want others to shut up, you need to stop interacting with them first.

 

[s007bala]

I have always lost to a 'Wayadi'.So,i better shut up.You have the last word.ROFL.

sb

 

[happyhindu]

If you want to go on rambling without making sense or call others names, certainly, you must be aware of what you are inside.

Yes, its good to see me having the last word for once. And its good you realized you do need to shut up for once.

 

[s007bala]

Athithi

Shri Balaji Iyer

Now that distraction is settled,coming back to topic of the thread,Mata Pitha and then comes god - God is defined for Tamil Brahmins,as Nirguna Brahman and Saguna Brahman.Saguna Brahman of god conception is,our Brahma Vishnu Shiva,as the creator the sustainer the destroyer.Brahma is worshipped in Pushkar,India and maybe one more stalam.Vishnu,his incarnations are 9 in number(in my opinion,the ninth ought to be Abraham) Siva has incarnations of lesser fame in puranas.Then we have the godesses,Ganapathi,Skanda,........and so on...millions of Saguna Brahman incarnations.

Its first mother,Father,Guest,Teacher and then god,as we were taught in values based education.

So,when you say listen to parents,which i think majority of us are doing- Only few Iyengar/Iyer men & women defect and marry out of their fold.But in the ultimate analysis,all you need is Mana-Poruttham between a man & woman.

Bhagavan Sathya Sai Baba says divinely:

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]There is only one religion, the religion of Love;
There is only one language, the language of the Heart;
There is only one caste, the caste of Humanity;
There is only one law, the law of Karma;
There is only one God, He is Omnipresent.

sb :couch2:
[/FONT]

 

[malgova.mango]

There is only one way to live a life, that is by trickery...


His Holiness might have missed this line....

 

[s007bala]

re

There is only one way to live a life, that is by trickery...


His Holiness might have missed this line....

'You' have addressed 'that' as His Holiness,and in such cases,'we' say,its 'his' leela :amen:

sb:loco: