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Is God judge or accountant?

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prasad1

Well-known member
I have been Reading these articles, they are interesting.
I have my own reservation about the contents.


[h=1]Is God judge or accountant?[/h]
Published on 18th December, 2016, in Mid-day

In Abrahamic mythology, God is the judge. In Hindu mythology, God is not a judge; he is an accountant. Ask yourself, who do you instinctively respect more, the judge or the accountant? How do you see yourself: as judge or accountant?
The answer is probably judge. In fact, an accountant — the munim — with his meticulous bookkeeping often evokes exasperation, if not outright disrespect. Could this be an indicator of how strongly we are influenced by Abrahamic mythology compared to Hindu mythology in contemporary times?
The approach of the judge and the accountant is fundamentally different. The judge seeks to be right. His righteousness is rooted in a set of rules. In Christian mythology, after death, one has to face God on His high throne, and argue the decisions one has made in one’s life. These are measured against rules, the commandments revealed by God through prophets, angels and messengers.
The judge then decides if you have followed the rules, or not followed the rules. In Islamic mythology, to follow the rule is ‘halal’ and to not follow the rule is ‘haram’. Thus, a judge creates a binary world of rule-followers and rule-breakers, the good and the bad, the right and the wrong. The good are rewarded and sent to heaven and the wrong are punished and sent to hell. The judge who can condemn you, also has the power to forgive you, if you appeal, or repent. With the judge comes authority.
The accountant checks your debts (rinn) in society. In Hindu mythology, Yama oversees the dead, and his assistant, Chitragupta, maintains the book of records, accounting every deed. Although there is tendency nowadays to classify actions as good (punya) and bad (paap), the traditional Vedic model was simply to check if what a living creatures owes to the world. If there is debt, you are bound to be reborn.
If there is no debt, you are liberated. So, the binary is bound and free. The monastic orders — Buddhists, Jains, Naths, Yogis, Tapasvis — all sought freedom. They concluded that all craving for food, security and pleasure involves feeding and dependence, hence debt. Traditionally, every human being was indebted to ancestors (pitr) and so had to raise a family. They were indebted to gods (devas) and so had to feed the gods through ritual (yagna). They were indebted to nature (prakriti) and fellow humans (manavas), and so had to take care of nature and be civil members of society (dharma).
Here, the key word is obligation, not morality. When you nourish another being, they owe you. When you deprive another being of nourishment, for your own nourishment, you owe them. Thus, we live in a web of debts. Debt leads to rebirth. No debt leads to liberation. Fortune means we are receiving loan repayment; misfortune means we have to pay for loans incurred. Wisdom lies in not expecting repayment, writing off loans, and not incurring loans.
Liberal society in modern society means being a liberal judge — one who does not try to control human behaviour through rules, monitoring and punitive action. What if it meant liberal accountant — who keeps clearing debts, and does not believe people ‘owe’ him their money, their time, their loyalty, their admiration or respect? A simple paradigm shift makes us think deeply about our lives and question the very nature of our relationships.




http://devdutt.com/articles/indian-mythology/is-god-judge-or-accountant.html
 

renuka

Well-known member
God is neither a Judge nor an Accountant.
Its our own Karmic bank account balance.

We are our own Judge and we are our own Accountant cos we actually weigh and calculate our actions.

The concept of God being a Judge is an Abrahamic concept.

In any of Hindu Sahasraranamas do we find us describing God as the Supreme Judge or Supreme Accountant?
 
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God is neither a Judge nor an Accountant.
Its our own Karmic bank account balance.

We are our own Judge and we are our own Accountant cos we actually weigh and calculate our actions.

The concept of God being a Judge is an Abrahamic concept.

In any of Hindu Sahasraranamas do we find us describing God as the Supreme Judge or Supreme Accountant?

I agree

God is a God, the Almighty, the Omnipresent, Omnipotent and Omniscient.

He cannot be defined either Judge, Accountant, Monster or Human, etc

BTW who are we to judge the God....?
 

thebigthinkg

Active member
In sanatana dharma, there is no 'GOD'. GOD is a totally abrahamic concept.

There are Rudras, Adityas, Vasus, Tri-murtis (Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva), shakti, lakshmi, sarasvati, ganesha, skanda, durga, lalitha, parvati what not.. A lot of 'divinities' who bring dawn of the Universe and guides its evolution.

Then there is Brahman, the evolution, the change that is the only constancy in the Universe. The world is mAyA as it keeps evolving/changing and hence unstable. But Brahman, the evolution is the reality.

All the living and non-living in the Universe have 'Atman'. The Atman is 'virtual'. Be it the nucleus in atom or a living being, 'virtual manas' binds them. Some say this 'Atman' in living (jIva) is different from the Atman everywhere (parama). Some say they are same. Some say it is same but a special type of the same. It does not make any difference, as Atman is virtual.

Karma is our action. Our action produces reactions which produce more actions. karma that adds/collects/heaps together become puNya. karma that subtract/move away/removes become pApa. If we produce puNya karma, actions that add-up we grow/evolve. If we produce pApa karma, actions that move away, we perish.

Our karma leaves its foot-prints on us, our families and the society at large. It produces reactions everywhere which impact us back directly or indirectly. All these either evolves or perishes us and others.

In a limited way, our intellect is a channel for the Brahman/Evolution, as the dance of puNya karma, the actions that grow/evolve us and pApa karma that perishes us impact our and overall society's evolution.

Submit all our actions that we do with our body, expressions, manas, indriyas, intellect to nArayana. nAra-ayana is simply the one who progresses (ayana) the 'nAra'.

What progresses the nAra are the karma which are done without Krodha, mAtsarya, Lobha, asubha madhi etc which lead to actions that move away/subtract (pApa karma). pApa karma perishes us and impedes our evolution.

There is no 'shepherd'/ 'king' / supreme God in Sanatana dharma.

Neither one judge. Nor one accountant.

-TBT
 
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prasad1

Well-known member
The accountant checks your debts (rinn) in society. In Hindu mythology, Yama oversees the dead, and his assistant, Chitragupta, maintains the book of records, accounting every deed. Although there is tendency nowadays to classify actions as good (punya) and bad (paap), the traditional Vedic model was simply to check if what a living creatures owes to the world. If there is debt, you are bound to be reborn.



This is our religion.

I understand the advaitic Brahman. But our practice has changed over time.
 

renuka

Well-known member
In sanatana dharma, there is no 'GOD'. GOD is a totally abrahamic concept.

There are Rudras, Adityas, Vasus, Tri-murtis (Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva), shakti, lakshmi, sarasvati, ganesha, skanda, durga, lalitha, parvati what not.. A lot of 'divinities' who bring dawn of the Universe and guides its evolution.

Then there is Brahman, the evolution, the change that is the only constancy in the Universe. The world is mAyA as it keeps evolving/changing and hence unstable. But Brahman, the evolution is the reality.

All the living and non-living in the Universe have 'Atman'. The Atman is 'virtual'. Be it the nucleus in atom or a living being, 'virtual manas' binds them. Some say this 'Atman' in living (jIva) is different from the Atman everywhere (parama). Some say they are same. Some say it is same but a special type of the same. It does not make any difference, as Atman is virtual.

Karma is our action. Our action produces reactions which produce more actions. karma that adds/collects/heaps together become puNya. karma that subtract/move away/removes become pApa. If we produce puNya karma, actions that add-up we grow/evolve. If we produce pApa karma, actions that move away, we perish.

Our karma leaves its foot-prints on us, our families and the society at large. It produces reactions everywhere which impact us back directly or indirectly. All these either evolves or perishes us and others.

In a limited way, our intellect is a channel for the Brahman/Evolution, as the dance of puNya karma, the actions that grow/evolve us and pApa karma that perishes us impact our and overall society's evolution.

Submit all our actions that we do with our body, expressions, manas, indriyas, intellect to nArayana. nAra-ayana is simply the one who progresses (ayana) the 'nAra'.

What progresses the nAra are the karma which are done without Krodha, mAtsarya, Lobha, asubha madhi etc which lead to actions that move away/subtract (pApa karma). pApa karma perishes us and impedes our evolution.

There is no 'shepherd'/ 'king' / supreme God in Sanatana dharma.

Neither one judge. Nor one accountant.

-TBT
Agreed!

But will a Vaishnava agree?

Vishnu is God for a Vaishnava.
 

thebigthinkg

Active member
Agreed!

But will a Vaishnava agree?

Vishnu is God for a Vaishnava.
Yes, the concept of 'God' is a thought, an idea, an opinion that generates an ideology. It gives rise to a 'mata' which is an idea or ideology. So we have different ideologies which form different religions.

Vaishnava is a 'mata' an ideology/religion like Saiva, sAkta, gAnapatya or say current day ISKCON or umpteen number of ideologies/mata that arise out of the vedic understanding or equivalent to religions like Christianity or Islam or Buddhism or Jainism. All of these based on a particular faith or particular idea/opinion.

But sanAtana is a dharma, which is life-path, that we devise according to laws that facilitate the evolution/brAhman. Once upon a time, those laws were Varna dharma and Asrama dharma. So the kings called themselves as protectors of Varna-asrama dharma. There were several matas that originated in sanatana dharma and clashed with each other.

-TBT



-TBT
 

prasad1

Well-known member
Yes, the concept of 'God' is a thought, an idea, an opinion that generates an ideology. It gives rise to a 'mata' which is an idea or ideology. So we have different ideologies which form different religions.


I understand your explanation.
But the religion practiced by 98% of people who call themselves Hindus, do not have this understanding.
They ape the Abrahamic religion because that is what is being preached by most of the so-called "religious" leaders. and political leaders.
 

tbs

Well-known member
hi

god is just sakshi.....we do karmas.....our own karmas gives good/bad...he is neither judge nor accountant....he is just witness

everything....kevalam sakshi eva ....
 

prasad1

Well-known member
hi

god is just sakshi.....we do karmas.....our own karmas gives good/bad...he is neither judge nor accountant....he is just witness



everything....kevalam sakshi eva ....



You and I may agree with this, bit majority of Hindus "pray", "beg", bribe the God to get the results they expect. So This Sakshi Bhava is only for the philosophy books. 95%+ people believe in a biased Judge (or king) for God.
 
I understand your explanation.
But the religion practiced by 98% of people who call themselves Hindus, do not have this understanding.
They ape the Abrahamic religion because that is what is being preached by most of the so-called "religious" leaders. and political leaders.

You and I may agree with this, bit majority of Hindus "pray", "beg", bribe the God to get the results they expect. So This Sakshi Bhava is only for the philosophy books. 95%+ people believe in a biased Judge (or king) for God.


What is the basis for 98% or 95%+?

Is there any authenticated proof to substantiate this...?
 

thebigthinkg

Active member
I understand your explanation.
But the religion practiced by 98% of people who call themselves Hindus, do not have this understanding.
They ape the Abrahamic religion because that is what is being preached by most of the so-called "religious" leaders. and political leaders.
Yes, in a way. But not exactly.

Dharma is white. White is philosophical and boring. We have to have color.

The various 'mata' can be seen as various colors. Sanatana dharma gives rise to various colors. You can sew your own hue of colors and start a 'mata'. These various colors merge to become white again. What is important is to facilitate this 'merging' or blending of colors.

I 'pray', 'beg', do so many rituals that come as part of my tradition with full concentration and focus, somehow want things for myself or my family get done, knowing fully well the way the Universe operates, like most people living in this land.

Most people I see here are like me. They have a 'laukika' personality and an 'anmika' personality. They don't see a clash between these two personalities, while it may appear from outside these two are totally different personalities.

What happens is, as they age, their search leads them from laukika to more anmika personalities.

But I also totally agree the abrahamic faiths influence a lot of us.

In particular these 'faith' based religions, because they begin with a faith and not enquiry or search, shut out all kind of questioning. You can't question Allah/Mohammad and be an Muslim. You can't question Jesus and be a Christian. Also any faith based religion gather followers either based on faith, supremacy and/or victimhood.

Many people of santana dharma are 'aping' this religionization of dharma. When they move to Anmika personality from their laukika lives, they actually don't travel in the path of sanatana dharma's enquiry, acceptance, Universal view, but travel in the path of seggregation, supremacist or victimhood. This is unfortunate for Sanatana dharma.

This is like Rakshasas binding Hanuman with plantain ropes, when he fell breathless due to brahmAstra of Indrajit , thinking that brahmAstra is powerless as its effect is invisible and they need a visible binding. But what they end up doing is removing the effect of brahmAstra which enables Hanuman to break the ropes easily.


-TBT
 

renuka

Well-known member
I dont think asking God is only Abrahamic.
Most of our prayers have Phalashurti listing benefits both spiritual and material.

We also have prayers asking God to give us richness..sons..grain..cows..keep us safe from enemies..keep us save even from snakes and evil spirits.

Most shlokas too are about benefits.

So I guess may be God is viewed as a "Friend with benefits"!LOL

I feel its just human to seek for refuge and protection be it from a seen entity or unseen entity.

Its just has an antidepressant effect to our mind.
Its not easy for a human to be at the highest position without anyone above him.


God is a safe contact and safe bet.

Abrahamic or Non Abrahamic..all humans seek a savior for their well being..even if this savior might not actually exist in the form they perceive Him yet it helps them just exists.
 
I dont think asking God is only Abrahamic.
Most of our prayers have Phalashurti listing benefits both spiritual and material.

exists.

You are right Madam,

In Sri Rudhram and Chamakam, Chamakam is a prayer listing out our requests for the fulfilment of over 300 worldly & spiritual desires. It provides a detailed list of needs/desires that a devotee ask for, both for worldly living and spiritual fulfilment like:

Nourishment of Body and Mind to help in Divine worship

Personality Development to motivate worship of Rudra

Materialistic and spiritual Happiness

Grains and food for himself and for worship

Materials for Home construction and yajnya

Vedic Deities, Supreme Being, the indweller in them

Vessels for holding juices for sacrifice; denotes levels of Spiritual knowledge

Accessories to perform yajnya; individual Self merging in to Supreme Being

Success – Fruits of yajnya including spiritual knowledge

Merging of Faculties in him and Supreme Being - Bliss

A Benediction - odd and even number together signifies many faculties and things in the universe
 

thebigthinkg

Active member
You are right Madam,

In Sri Rudhram and Chamakam, Chamakam is a prayer listing out our requests for the fulfilment of over 300 worldly & spiritual desires. It provides a detailed list of needs/desires that a devotee ask for, both for worldly living and spiritual fulfilment like:

Nourishment of Body and Mind to help in Divine worship

Personality Development to motivate worship of Rudra

Materialistic and spiritual Happiness

Grains and food for himself and for worship

Materials for Home construction and yajnya

Vedic Deities, Supreme Being, the indweller in them

Vessels for holding juices for sacrifice; denotes levels of Spiritual knowledge

Accessories to perform yajnya; individual Self merging in to Supreme Being

Success – Fruits of yajnya including spiritual knowledge

Merging of Faculties in him and Supreme Being - Bliss

A Benediction - odd and even number together signifies many faculties and things in the universe
The 'term/Concept' 'God' is indeed abrahamic. For eg. in Christianity God is the shepherd and king of his subjects. In Islam, Allah is the King of his subjects and Mohammad is his prophet.

In fact phalastuti of various slokas say what we get out of reciting these slokas. People understand different slokas as praising different divinities, but those in no way stipulate 'The Supreme God', as all divinities are equally Supreme. The concept of The Supreme one itself does not exist though people prefer to call their favorite divinities as 'The supreme one'.

This is what I understand in my studies

-TBT
-TBT
 

prasad1

Well-known member
When the learned people are pushing what will sell so that they can enrich themselves, no true knowledge can be disseminated.

It is easier to sell "snake-Oil" and make money than preach Vedanta.

Religions work purely on guilt and misinformation.
 
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To view things in right perspective and to find out the truth, one needs to change the glass, otherwise, for few, most of the things may appear only as a "snake-Oil", guilt, information, etc etc,

It all depends upon the glass..... the glass they look thro'
 
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