India's Daughter... is she?

[prasad1]

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Government is corrupt at all levels. There is nothing to investigate or hold kangaroo court sessions or investigate some leaks.

The real shame is that no new laws have been passed to make it safer for women. Nothing has been done to educate to change attitudes. The only focus seem to be to protect the juvenile whoever he is - that fellow should be prosecuted as a full adult!

Going after rapist's lawyer means nothing - that is just a symptom of a rotten value system.

Yes I fully endorse this view, but the law must be upheld.

“If truth is offensive, deal with it,” said Rajya Sabha member and senior lawyer K.T.S Tulsi. “This ostrich-like approach to danger will not save our women from sexual violence. The documentary offers a peep into a criminal mind. Its intention is not to glorify him, but to expose him and his mindset to society,” Mr. Tulsi said.

Showing the documentary was all the more important now. “A loosely worded law against rape was hastily passed after the gang rape, but crime against women has increased by 27 per cent after that.”

 

[prasad1]

The government’s decision to ban the BBC documentary on the December 16, 2012 gang rape in Delhi, India’s Daughter, both in the media and on the Internet, and file an FIR against unknown persons may not be based on sound principles of law, legal experts have said.

The former Attorney-General of India Soli J. Sorabjee said the filing of the FIR was “hasty” and it would not sustain in a court of law. “No useful purpose is gained by shoving harsh reality under the carpet,” he said.
Legal experts said the ban based on a court injunction order could be challenged on the ground that it took away the public’s right to know.

Documentary ban may not stand legal scrutiny - The Hindu

 

[sarang]

India is nowhere in the list, still has to carry the stigma.

 

[sarang]

This tweet is by Vicky Nanjappa, a well known journalist. Others like Nalapat have said that a big campaign is on to discredit modi's government this summer. Some have started joining the dots and have understood the agenda of christian west to destablize india by projecting a bad image. Fortunately, this will not succeed.

"Ever since modi has taken over as PM west is on overdrive to defame india- greepeace, udwins are all part of this big fat racket."

 

[sarang]

Rape in India – Why it becomes a worldwide story

Food for thought, why India is targeted and abused! Excerpts from an article, link at the end for those interested in the welfare of hindus and india.

"Yet, when the mainstream news media is branding India into a “rape capital”, it is worth a pause. Maria Wirth, a German émigré to India wrote on how she found German TV disproportionately reporting a rape incident in far-away India, while a local rape was a small inside item. Similarly, a rape in a Cab in New Delhi made it all the way into the New York Times while an estimated 700 rapes on that day in the US merited no mention. This begs the question—is disproportionate coverage of rape in India justified? Or is it driven by an agenda?

"While the US is among the top countries in reported rape, still a majority (60%) of sexual assaults go unreported. Based on data collected by the US organization RAINN, factoring in unreported rapes, only 3% of rapists in the US would spend even one day in prison.

While many countries, including UK and France, have shown a decline in rape conviction rate, India’s rate, despite a decline, is still several times higher than the UK at 26.4% with Delhi having a whopping 41.5% rape conviction rate, despite India’s notoriously inefficient justice system.

"The demonization of India for rapes is part of this propaganda war. US missionaries are the biggest funders of evangelical activities in India and are pushing the narrative that Christianization is necessary to “save” Indian women from the “oppressive native culture.” Unfortunately Indian media is complicit in this global campaign. This when the US has 16 times the rape rate of India.

http://www.niticentral.com/2014/12/23/rape-india-becomes-worldwide-story-292683.html

 

[a-TB]

Food for thought, why India is targeted and abused! Excerpts from an article, link at the end for those interested in the welfare of hindus and india.

"Yet, when the mainstream news media is branding India into a “rape capital”, it is worth a pause. Maria Wirth, a German émigré to India wrote on how she found German TV disproportionately reporting a rape incident in far-away India, while a local rape was a small inside item. Similarly, a rape in a Cab in New Delhi made it all the way into the New York Times while an estimated 700 rapes on that day in the US merited no mention. This begs the question—is disproportionate coverage of rape in India justified? Or is it driven by an agenda?

"While the US is among the top countries in reported rape, still a majority (60%) of sexual assaults go unreported. Based on data collected by the US organization RAINN, factoring in unreported rapes, only 3% of rapists in the US would spend even one day in prison.

While many countries, including UK and France, have shown a decline in rape conviction rate, India’s rate, despite a decline, is still several times higher than the UK at 26.4% with Delhi having a whopping 41.5% rape conviction rate, despite India’s notoriously inefficient justice system.

"The demonization of India for rapes is part of this propaganda war. US missionaries are the biggest funders of evangelical activities in India and are pushing the narrative that Christianization is necessary to “save” Indian women from the “oppressive native culture.” Unfortunately Indian media is complicit in this global campaign. This when the US has 16 times the rape rate of India.

Rape in India ? Why it becomes a worldwide story

There may very well be two issues here. One, may be outside groups exploiting the situation. Second is the situation itself with the society!

The first issue cannot be used to answer the second or ban the reporting of the second!

If 100+ MPs are charged with rape charges that is shameful. Let us see the statistics discussed on that first. Where did these scoundrels acquire so much power?

In India with corruption as its economic backbone, it is far more dangerous to report rape, so numbers reported cannot be trusted

Killing female fetuses in millions over decades has given rise to imbalance in male-female ratio. Poverty, this imbalance and the society's attitude that women are property has created this problem which is real.

As I said earlier the supreme court is screwing around for a year and is not able to take up this case in a fast track. These are serious issues and if these are properly addressed the first issue of missionary influence will go away

 

[vgane]

The GOI has to go deep into the controversy of this documentary...If there is nothing fishy in this they can air this..But if there is some malicious intent & the convicts have been tutored for money, then the whole documentary is a sham..Let the Government bring out the truth and clear the air

 

[sarang]

 

[krish44]

I tend to agree with sarangji

there appears to e too much hype about indian rapes and slow criminal justice system dealing with this sensitive

subject.

you know 94 percent girls/women in travel survey say they feel safe to go on a holiday either with their friends or

alone in interior india.

if you leave one or two metros all cities are fairly safe.

my relations all ladies in age group 60-75 travel alone by train or air . the younger ones go to remote places in

jharkand and uttaakhand in interior india without batting an eyelid. my servant maid 55yrs always goes alone in train

from delhi to deep south.

in fact most co travellers help ladies travelling on their own

I was reading about a girl who was told by someone to change her window seat in train to be safe from chain snatching

and changed his seat with her.

safety is a matter of feeling .

I do not buy all this rape hungama.

it is all propaganda by vested interests to defame india.

all know there are more rapes in western countries than in india.

 

[sarang]

The Nirbhaya film 'India's Daughter' is patronising Western sensationalism

By NISHTHA GAUTAM
PUBLISHED: 00:31 GMT, 6 March 2015 |

Leslie Udwin’s documentary for the BBC, ‘India’s Daughter’, and the Government of India’s ban on the same have managed to open Pandora’s box on the evils of the world.

India’s Daughter is a far cry from a path-breaking journalistic initiative. It only manages to reiterate what has been heard a million times before: that Indian women must pay the price for their very existence amid the raging cult of patriarchy.

While it ostentatiously attempts to put forth the point of view of a rapist, it does not appear to be backed by enough psychoanalytical findings.

Criminal psychology as a discipline is still in its nascent stage in India, and there is a lack of data that could have lent gravitas to any discourse on the beliefs of a rapist: potential or convicted.
Without the necessary statistical scaffolding, Udwin’s documentary too stands in danger of joining the league of reportage on everyday sexism – which is important, but largely ineffective.

The condescension reserved for third world issues was out in its full glory. This documentary gives the impression of being an extension of the same shock-and-awe brand of journalism.
Udwin’s patronising press statements, after the ban, do not help either.
Problematic

The mammoth proportions of the documentary’s marketing are tasteless at best and hypocritical at worst.
One can clearly observe the laboured attempts to create a spectacle.
A far bigger problem is at the semantic level of the documentary’s title and tagline. ‘India’s Daughter’ is as problematic as Bharat Mata: condescending, effacing specificities and rooted in the patriarchal body politic.

The documentary is being publicised in India using the following sentence: “For the first time, the face of evil, the rapist speaks on camera.”

While I stand for absolutism in freedom of expression, this installing of a criminal as a ‘celebrity’ cannot be condoned.

The problem with Nirbhaya's rapist being touted as the face of evil is two-fold. One, it attempts to create mass hysteria around a heinous crime by giving it an identifiable face.

The outraged masses want this one head on the platter while other crimes against women remain obscure. Such totemisation can’t be productive.

Hysteria

Secondly, there runs a risk of glamourising evil. Two months back I was stranded with a flat tyre in the middle of a Delhi night and the teenager helping me gloated how he murdered his teacher two years back.
He might have just lied, and yet his choice of an ‘impressive’ lie is what bothered me.

Treading dangerous ground without the necessary theoretical and statistical frameworks, ‘India’s Daughter’ appears to be yet another exercise in sensationalism. Third world sensationalism.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/indiahome/indianews/article-2981548/The-Nirbhaya-film-India-s-Daughter-patronising-Western-sensationalism.html

 

[V.Balasubramani]

The frightening part of India’s daughter

If anything is more vulgar, obscene and crass than the statements mouthed by the rapist in the documentary ‘India’s daughter’ by Leslee Udwin, it is the wisdom on Indian women and Indian culture spouted by the pair of defence lawyers of the rapists and murderers of Nirbhaya. The statements of the rapist are consistent with what one would expect from the most wretched, depraved and warped of minds imaginable – which is what rapists of the Nirbhaya case are. So no surprise there.

The surprise comes from the nauseating and unnerving views on Indian culture and womanhood that the two ‘defence lawyers’ hold in their muck-filled heads. Below are some samples of thoughts pontificated by the two on Indian woman, with smug face and chilling deliberation.

One of the defence lawyers provides his wisdom thus: “That girl was with some unknown boy who took her on a date. In our society we never allow our girls to come out of the house after 6.30 or 7.30 or 8.30 in the evening with any unknown person.”
He goes on to add, “She [the Indian woman] should not be put on the street just like food. The ‘lady’, on the other hand (sic) you can say the ‘girl’ or ‘woman’ are more precious than a diamond … are more precious than a gem… than a diamond. It is up to you how you want to keep that diamond in your hand. If you put on the street , certainly the dog will take it out. You can’t stop it…”



Read more at: The frightening part of India?s daughter - TOI Blogs

 

[prasad1]

The frightening part of India’s daughter

If anything is more vulgar, obscene and crass than the statements mouthed by the rapist in the documentary ‘India’s daughter’ by Leslee Udwin, it is the wisdom on Indian women and Indian culture spouted by the pair of defence lawyers of the rapists and murderers of Nirbhaya. The statements of the rapist are consistent with what one would expect from the most wretched, depraved and warped of minds imaginable – which is what rapists of the Nirbhaya case are. So no surprise there.

The surprise comes from the nauseating and unnerving views on Indian culture and womanhood that the two ‘defence lawyers’ hold in their muck-filled heads. Below are some samples of thoughts pontificated by the two on Indian woman, with smug face and chilling deliberation.

One of the defence lawyers provides his wisdom thus: “That girl was with some unknown boy who took her on a date. In our society we never allow our girls to come out of the house after 6.30 or 7.30 or 8.30 in the evening with any unknown person.”
He goes on to add, “She [the Indian woman] should not be put on the street just like food. The ‘lady’, on the other hand (sic) you can say the ‘girl’ or ‘woman’ are more precious than a diamond … are more precious than a gem… than a diamond. It is up to you how you want to keep that diamond in your hand. If you put on the street , certainly the dog will take it out. You can’t stop it…”



Read more at: The frightening part of India?s daughter - TOI Blogs

I agree with your post.

But in 2013 when we were talking about this crime on this site there were number of post blaming the victim indirectly.
http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/general-discussions/12290-psychology-rapists-8.html#post192011

http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/general-discussions/12290-psychology-rapists-5.html#post191067
http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/general-discussions/12258-indesent-dressing-girls.html#post190104

 

[renuka]

If you put on the street , certainly the dog will take it out. You can’t stop it…”



Read more at: The frightening part of India?s daughter - TOI Blogs

The defence lawyer needs to know that dogs do not rape.

 

[sarang]

Yesterday in Leeds, UK, a teen ager waiting in a bus shelter at 11 pm was attacked and raped. Many motorists passing did not stop to check or help. The girl was lying on the road side with serious head and hip injuries. This crime too is equally dispicable, but does not attract voyeurish media glare and reporting and downright condemnation of british men, english culture and rapist's mindset. Incident is the same, but reporting is different.

 

[prasad1]

I generally ignore post from Sarangji, but this useless post are getting to me.
So here goes.
If you get caught caught for lying, and is produced before a judge, would your defense be that Yudistira lied during Mahabharata so you too should spared? Why do you think you have to be the only defender of India? This site is probably viewed 90% of people who are connected to India. For all you know they too love India as much or more than you do. Instead of being an apologist do something constructive. Let us condemn the crime and the criminals, instead of pointing fingers at others as if that is a solution. If you have a solution to the problem let us hear it.

 

[krish44]

if one coldly analyses who gets raped,


1. domestic abuse and molesting of girls -often a relative or servant . most of it never comes out.in public

2. Tourists -foreigners -fair coloured, buddhist tourism site from asian countries -often it is taxi driver, guide,restaurant keepers

3. indians belonging to hills and north east states not familiar with local culture and trusting anyone

4. BPO and late night employees media etc returning from work -mostly the cab drivers

5. others in live in relationships- many are trumped up charges when a man wants to walk out of relationship , girls/girls relatives fix them. also people in inter caste or religion relationships get framed more. once parents come to know of it, girls claim innocence and let the boys hang

the numbers if one estimates may not be high if one considers indias population. but even it is one rape it is per

se bad. the extra publicity given to it due to gruesomeness of some incidents and outcry in media has distorted the real issues

rapes in india as a statistic is far lesser than projected.

in india we exaggerate everything including rape.

 

[prasad1]

The crime of rape has different meaning in each country. Secondly the social stigma and the society will not accept an woman's words in India. Police refuses to register the case. So it is nice to hide under cooked up numbers.
Rape in India is one of India's most common crimes against women. Marital rape that occurs when spouses are living together can only be dealt under the Protection of Women from Domestic Violence Act 2005 which only provides civil remedies to victims (it is a form of non-criminal domestic violence). Marital rape is not a criminal offense, except when spouses are separated. Rape cases in India have doubled between 1990 and 2008 Penile and non-penile penetration in bodily orifices of a woman by a man, without the consent of the woman, constitutes the offense of rape under the Criminal Law (Amendment) Act, 2013.

Adjusted for population growth over time, the annual rape rate in India has increased from 1.9 to 2.0 per 100,000 people over 2008-2012 period.


The statistics reported by Sarangji is totally bogus, it has no significance to Indian women.

 

[sarang]

I generally ignore post from Sarangji, but this useless post are getting to me.
So here goes

.

A petition to the moderator will be the next step as usual!

 

[sarang]

British filmmaker Leslie Udwin misled home ministry and Tihar officials

"Her sole intention, it seems, was to interview the Nirbhaya case convict — which she didn't reveal to the home ministry or Tihar authorities while seeking a nod. She filmed half-a-dozen convicts in Tihar but but only Mukesh Singh's interview has made it to the documentary," a home ministry official alleged.

Home minister Rajnath Singh had on Wednesday said hewould investigate how the film crew managed to interview a death row convict.

British filmmaker Leslie Udwin misled home ministry and Tihar officials while seeking a nod to shoot inside the jail - The Economic Times

 

[sarang]

Britain’s Daughter Violates India’s Daughter’s Trust by Misleading Government

1. No Objection Certificate (NoC) was given to Udwin and Anjali Bhushan but the latter’s name is missing from the documentary shown on BBC
2. UK based “Worldview” funded “India’s Daughter” and listed Anjali Bhushan as the original co-producer of the documentary. However, after it was released, her name is missing from not only the credit rolls but also from the web page of the Italian distributor Berta Film and Denmark-based DR Sale, which hold the rights to distribute India’s Daughter.
3. The officials probing the case pointed out that Udwin has used her name and expertise to make the documentary, which had received huge foreign funding including money from Tribeca Film Institute. Investigators are also surprised by mention of ‘Tathagat Films’ popping up as the co-producer in the credit roll of the documentary. “Tathagat films is not mentioned in the official papers submitted by the original makers of the documentary which means a mirage was created to hide something on the UK joint venture. ‘Apricot Sky Entertainment’ owned by Anjali, which was originally mentioned in the papers is now missing from the official credit list. All these complications raise suspicion over the working of the British filmmaker,” the official added.
4. An entertainment company, which holds musical events and is perhaps run by a person known to Udwin and others associated with the film. Dibang, a senior journalist is credited as the co-producer in the film. A questionnaire sent to him seeking his response on controversy and ongoing probe remains unanswered.
5. For a producer who claimed on TV she was once raped and she wanted the documentary to be a tribute to Indian women, officials say that strangely she was mostly absent during the week-long shoot inside Tihar.
6. It is reliably learnt that a cameraperson was asked to roll the camera but pretended that it was switched off. The rapist was inveigled into an informal chat. Unaware that he was being shot, his ugly, unrepentant mindset came to the fore and Udwin could get the sensational quotes of Mukesh Singh’s bytes. The official also pointed out that the clothes Mukesh wore during the interview indicated that rules were violated

Britain?s Daughter Violates India?s Daughter?s Trust by Misleading Government with Script - The New Indian Express

 

[V.Balasubramani]

Show cause notices issued to lawyers of gangrape accused

• 
  • The lawyers’ apex body took the decision around midnight after its executive committee meeting.

Even as the Bar Council of India initiated suo motu proceedings for professional misconduct against two defence lawyers in the December 2012 Delhi gang-rape case for their alleged derogatory remarks against women made in the BBC documentary India’s Daughter, senior members of the legal community said lawyers, above all, should be sensitive to the equality and dignity of women.

They said the proceedings gave the BCI, the highest regulatory body for legal practice, an opportunity to amend rules to check lawyers from making unsubstantiated, off-the-cuff remarks, especially when they represent sensitive cases involving crimes against women.

The two lawyers — Manohar Lal Sharma and A.P. Singh — represent the four persons on death row for the brutal gang-rape and murder of a 23-year-old medical student in Delhi in December 2012.

Supreme Court Bar Association president Dushyant Dave said on Saturday that the two lawyers represented the exception to the lawyers’ community and their comments reflected a “myopic thinking.”

“What they said is absolutely unacceptable. Those who have learned the art of law know that the equality of women is at the forefront,” Mr. Dave said. He commended the BCI for taking “decisive action”.

BCI chairperson Manan Kumar Mishra said the executive committee met urgently late on Friday and decided to issue show-cause notices by midnight.


Read more at: Show cause notices issued to lawyers of gangrape accused - The Hindu

 

[auh]

I agree with your post.

But in 2013 when we were talking about this crime on this site there were number of post blaming the victim indirectly.
http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/general-discussions/12290-psychology-rapists-8.html#post192011

http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/general-discussions/12290-psychology-rapists-5.html#post191067
http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/general-discussions/12258-indesent-dressing-girls.html#post190104

Thank you ! These are the posts that I referred to in my OP.

Without going through the posts in detail, I recollect that there were two broad approaches - one: that tended to think that it was all about display of power, and, two: that in most sections of the society (in India) people tend to associate scanty dressing with loose morals.

The interview with the rapist brings home the glaring point that "in the view of the society" people who dress scantily, who are seen at night, etc are construed to be women of loose morals, and hence, are more likely to be trifled with.

 

[prasad1]

 

[V.Balasubramani]

Talking about rape
[h=2]Banning a documentary does not change mindsets. A look at the furore over Leslee Udwin’s India’s Daughter.[/h]We are so easily outraged. We get angry if someone from another country critically views what we know to be our terrible reality. We know women in India are not safe. We know there are rapes of women every day — young, old, Dalit, tribal, in cities and in villages. Yet, if a ‘foreigner’ deigns to point this out, we get upset; we are ‘hurt’, says the Union Home Minister Rajnath Singh; we are outraged; we think it is a ‘conspiracy to defame India’.

So the controversy surrounding Leslee Udwin’s documentary film India’s Daughter — about the December 16, 2012 gang-rape and murder of a 23-year-old woman in Delhi — goes round and round in circles. It generates heat and sound but little sense and certainly no hope.

I have not seen the film and so will not comment on its contents. The controversy surrounding it has once again brought into focus the grim reality of rape as well as how many Indian men view women. Personally, I don’t think any film, made by an Indian or a foreigner can make things look worse than they already are. Nor should there be a question of banning such films. What are we afraid of? What we can question is the perspective in such films. For instance, the decision of the filmmaker to interview one of the convicts and the lawyers, knowing what they would say, can be questioned.

These questions can be asked once you see the film. Now that the government has successfully got a restraint order from the court, this is not a possibility (although the Internet defies all restraint orders, as we all know). In fact, by releasing the content of her interviews with Mukesh Singh and the lawyers, the filmmaker has ensured that her film will be sought after, despite the restraining order. Perhaps that is what she wanted in the first place, to stir a controversy to promote her film. Or, to give her the benefit of the doubt, perhaps she did not anticipate the government’s response. If not, then she was incredibly naïve.

Read more at: Talking about rape - The Hindu

 

[prasad1]

Mr. Bala,
This is sarcasm for you.

Wait till you get attacked as India-hater, and Hindu-hater, because you criticize the defender of India.
You dare to read English-media, dont you know that they are Hindu-bashers. You must only read the village rag.
You dare to praise the concept of the documentary. How can we allow foreigner to air our dirty laundry.