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Indians - Born Yogis

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nachi naga

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I found this article in my in-box. Read on Friends

It is amazing how much Western science has taught us.
Today, for example, kids in grammar school learn that the sun is 93 million miles from the earth and that the speed of light is 186,000 miles per second.
Yoga may teach us about our Higher Self, but it can't supply this kind of information about physics or astronomy.
Or can it?
Professor Subhash Kak of Louisiana State University recently called my attention to a remarkable statement by Sayana, a fourteenth century Indian scholar.
In his commentary on a hymn in the Rig Veda, the oldest and perhaps most mystical text ever composed in India, Sayana has this to say: "With deep respect, I bow to the sun, who travels 2,202 yojanas in half a nimesha."
A yojana is about nine American miles; a nimesha is 16/75 of a second.
Mathematically challenged readers, get out your calculators!
2,202 yojanas x 9 miles x 75/8 nimeshas = 185,794 m. p. s.
Basically, Sayana is saying that sunlight travels at 186,000 miles per second!
How could a Vedic scholar who died in 1387 A. D. have known the correct figure for the speed of light?
If this was just a wild guess it's the most amazing coincidence in the history of science!
The yoga tradition is full of such coincidences.
Take for instance the mala many yoga students wear around their neck.
Since these rosaries are used to keep track of the number of mantras a person is repeating, students often ask why they have 108 beads instead of 100.
Part of the reason is that the mala represent the ecliptic, the path of the sun and moon across the sky. Yogis divide the ecliptic into 27 equal sections called nakshatras, and each of these into four equal sectors called paadas, or "steps," marking the 108 steps that the sun and moon take through heaven.

Each is associated with a particular blessing force, with which you align yourself as you turn the beads. Traditionally, yoga students stop at the 109th "guru bead," flip the mala around in their hand, and continue reciting their mantra as they move backward through the beads.
The guru bead represents the summer and winter solstices, when the sun appears to stop in its course and reverse directions.
In the yoga tradition we learn that we're deeply interconnected with all of nature.
Using a mala is a symbolic way of connecting ourselves with the cosmic cycles governing our universe. But Professor Kak points out yet another coincidence:
The distance between the earth and the sun is approximately 108 times the sun's diameter.
The diameter of the sun is about 108 times the earth's diameter.
And the distance between the earth and the moon is 108 times the moon's diameter.
Could this be the reason the ancient sages considered 108 such a sacred number?
If the microcosm (us) mirrors the macrocosm (the solar system), then maybe you could say there are 108 steps between our ordinary human awareness and the divine light at the center of our being.
Each time we chant another mantra as our mala beads slip through our fingers, we are taking another step toward our own inner sun.
As we read through ancient Indian texts, we find so much the sages of antiquity could not possibly have known-but did.
While our European and Middle Eastern ancestors claimed that the universe was created about 6,000 years ago, the yogis have always maintained that our present cosmos is billions of years old, and that it's just one of many such universes which have arisen and dissolved in the vastness of eternity.
In fact the Puranas, encyclopedias of yogic lore thousands of years old, describe the birth of our solar system out of a "milk ocean," the Milky Way.
Through the will of the Creator, they tell us, a vortex shaped like a lotus arose from the navel of eternity.
It was called Hiranya Garbha, the shining womb.
It gradually coalesced into our world, but will perish some day billions of years hence when the sun expands to many times it present size, swallowing all life on earth.
In the end, the Puranas say, the ashes of the earth will be blown into space by the cosmic wind.
Today we known this is a scientifically accurate, if poetic, description of the fate of our planet.
The Surya Siddhanta is the oldest surviving astronomical text in the Indian tradition.
Some Western scholars date it to perhaps the fifth or sixth centuries A. D., though the next itself claims to represent a tradition much, much older.
It explains that the earth is shaped like a ball, and states that at the very opposite side of the planet from India is a great city where the sun is rising at the same time it sets in India.
In this city, the Surya Siddhanta claims, lives a race of siddhas, or advanced spiritual adepts.
If you trace the globe of the earth around to the exact opposite side of India, you'll find Mexico.
Is it possible that the ancient Indians were well aware of the great sages/astronomers of Central America many centuries before Columbus discovered America?- the M! ayans or Inca-s!!!
Knowing the unknowable: To us today it seems impossible that the speed of light or the fate of our solar system could be determined without advanced astronomical instruments. -as Sanjee argues!!

How could the writers of old Sanskrit texts have known the unknowable?
In searching for an explanation we first need to understand that these ancient scientists were not just intellectuals, they were practicing yogis.
The very first lines of the Surya Siddhanta, for of the Golden Age a great astronomer named Maya desired to learn the secrets of the heavens, so he first performed rigorous yogic practices.
Then the answers to his questions appeared in his mind in an intuitive flash.
Does this sound unlikely?
Yoga Sutra 3:26-28 states that through, samyama(concentration, meditation, and unbroken mental absorption) on the sun, moon, and pole star, we can gain knowledge of the planets and stars. Sutra 3:33 clarifies, saying: "Through keenly developed intuition, everything can be known."
Highly developed intuition is called pratibha in yoga.
It is accessible only to those who have completely stilled their mind, focusing their attention on one object with laser-like intensity.
Those who have limited their mind are no longer limited to the fragments of knowledge supplied by the five senses.
All knowledge becomes accessible to them.
"There are [those] who would say that consciousness, acting on itself, can find universal knowledge," Professor Kak admits. "In fact this is the traditional Indian view."
Perhaps the ancient sages didn't need advanced astronomical instruments.
After all, they had yoga.
 
I do not know if the statistics provided by you are correct or not. But, I believe in intuition.

I always have a great respect for our Indian Mathematicians, Astronomers, Scientists, Musicians, Dancers, Sculptors, Painters, Litterateurs and Engineers who constructed great monuments including temples, dams etc.

With humility and respect, I bow to all of them.
 
Is this thread complimentary or contradictory to the thread " Science in Hinduism am I reading too much?" Jaisiyarram are you listening ? Jambu:hug:
 
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nachi naga

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Anyaksetre krtam papam punyaksetre vinasyati

Punyaksetre krtam papam Varanasyam vinasyati

Varanasyam krtam papam Kumbhakone vinasyati

Kumbhakone krtam papam Kumbhakone vinasyati

"The sin committed in any (ordinary) place is washed away in a sacred place. That committed in any sacred place is washed away in Varanasi (that is Kasi). The sin committed in Varanasi is wiped away in Kumbhakonam. And the sin earned in Kumbhakonam, well it is destroyed only in Kumbhakonam. "

Greatness of the Vedas from the Chapter "The Vedas", in Hindu Dharma : kamakoti.org:
 
Is this thread complimentary or contradictory to the thread " Science in Hinduism am I reading too much?" Jaisiyarram are you listening ? Jambu:hug:

Namaste Dr.T.N.Jambunathanji,

I guess you are referring to me if I am not wrong.

I think this thread is similar to your thread: " Science in Hinduism am I reading too much?".

Sir, my stand is One does not need any approval from scientific community for ones belief system(Hinduism in this case). One dont have to align with Scientific body/forum/board.

I am uncomfortable with this approach because now we are saying that Hinduism(vedas? rishis? saints? followers?) have calculated the exact distance between Sun and Earth some X number of years ago which is very much the same as calculated by scientific theories/tools. There could be new scientific discoveries in future that which may state that the distance between Sun and Earth was different some Y(>X or <X) years ago and the distance slowly increasing(some day Earth may be out of Sun's clutches )/decreasing(some day Earth may collapse into Sun). Then in that future when this scientific discovery is made shall we(Hindus) come up with new discoveries in Hinduism(vedas? rishis? saints? followers?) that correlates with this new scientific discovery? I think this is simply work of an idle/inferior/fanatic mind.

This is my stand as of 3rd of June, 2010.

Jai SiyaRaam
 
I think this is simply work of an idle/inferior/fanatic mind.

Oh Dear

Are you under the impression that these are posted to get the accreditation of some science body? Or do you think this is an attempt to establish that these scientific discovers are nothing new. It is already there in Hindu Scripture and what you are doing is reinventing the wheel! No I can call them all as great Sience Fiction of Vedic Period .
They could imagine things without any scientific temper come out with their observations. Now in this century those observation are at peace with established scientific facts You can argue about this aggressively No problem But instead you have taken the role of a judge judging their mind. Where is the mandate for that ?:argue:

Really their mind is active fertile and full of fantasy You talk about their observation and not about the observer"s mental caliber You are hitting them below the belt

Look what Dr. Christian Barnard (Doctor of Hearts) of Cape Town has to say about this
He was in India in early 70s on invitation from Medical Forum to share his experiences in organ Transplant after his success with Heart Transplant. In an Interview to the question from where was his inspiration from for his attempt to undertake transplantation of heart. His immediate response "From Ganesha elephant headed God of Hindus. In his story there is recorded suggestion of head transplant and that impressed me and that was my inspiration -- Is this an idle/ inferior/fanatic mind. Jambu:noidea:
 
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nachi naga

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An 83-year-old Indian holy man who says he has spent seven decades without food or water has astounded a team of military doctors who studied him during a two-week observation period. Prahlad Jani spent a fortnight in a hospital in the western India state of Gujarat under constant surveillance from a team of 30 medics equipped with cameras and closed circuit television. During the period, he neither ate nor drank and did not go to the toilet. “We still do not know how he survives,” neurologist Sudhir Shah told reporters after the end of the experiment. “It is still a mystery what kind of phenomenon this is.”
The doctors’ response, it seems to me, illustrates the shortcomings of the purely scientific approach in these kinds of circumstances:
Jani has since returned to his village near Ambaji in northern Gujarat where he will resume his routine of yoga and meditation. He says that he was blessed by a goddess at a young age, which gave him special powers. During the 15-day observation, which ended on Thursday, the doctors took scans of Jani’s organs, brain, and blood vessels, as well as doing tests on his heart, lungs and memory capacity. “The reports were all in the pre-determined safety range through the observation period,” Shah told reporters at a press conference last week. Other results from DNA analysis, molecular biological studies and tests on his hormones, enzymes, energy metabolism and genes will take months to come through. “If Jani does not derive energy from food and water, he must be doing that from energy sources around him, sunlight being one,” said Shah. “As medical practitioners we cannot shut our eyes to possibilities, to a source of energy other than calories.”
To be sure, these potential causes should be investigated–as seemingly improbable as they are. The experiment should be repeated with international observers to prevent bad technique. But there are other possible explanations for a phenomenon that would seem to defy all known scientific laws and theories. Again, assuming this isn’t a hoax, it could also be literally a case of mind over matter–or even, evidence of the supernatural–neither of which are to ever be acknowledged in the purely materialistic scientific understanding.
This is the second time, the yogi has been observed by doctors. Still, one response fr0m the science sector is to demand longer periods of observation. From Live Science’s “Bad Science” column:
Reports claim that Prahlad Jani “has now spent six days without food or water under strict observation and doctors say his body has not yet shown any adverse effects from hunger or dehydration.” Assuming the claim is true — and it’s not clear just how strict the observation is — Jani’s inedia so far remains unproven. If he really doesn’t need food or water, he should be under close observation for months or years to prove it. Given that he claims not to have consumed anything since World War II, this shouldn’t be a problem.
That sounds right. But if anyone of us were to go totally without hydration for two weeks, we would either be dead or very close to it.
I am not saying I believe this. But I do recognize that “things” sometimes happen that can’t be explained scientifically nor repeated to pass scientific muster. And in these few and far between cases–by refusing to recognize that there may be more things in heaven and earth than dreamt of in the scientific philosophy (to paraphrase Shakespeare)–science may actually prevent itself from fully comprehending reality
 
I think this is simply work of an idle/inferior/fanatic mind.

Oh Dear

Are you under the impression that these are posted to get the accreditation of some science body? Or do you think this is an attempt to establish that these scientific discovers are nothing new. It is already there in Hindu Scripture and what you are doing is reinventing the wheel! No I can call them all as great Sience Fiction of Vedic Period .
They could imagine things without any scientific temper come out with their observations. Now in this century those observation are at peace with established scientific facts You can argue about this aggressively No problem But instead you have taken the role of a judge judging their mind. Where is the mandate for that ?:argue:

Really their mind is active fertile and full of fantasy You talk about their observation and not about the observer"s mental caliber You are hitting them below the belt

Look what Dr. Christian Barnard (Doctor of Hearts) of Cape Town has to say about this
He was in India in early 70s on invitation from Medical Forum to share his experiences in organ Transplant after his success with Heart Transplant. In an Interview to the question from where was his inspiration from for his attempt to undertake transplantation of heart. His immediate response "From Ganesha elephant headed God of Hindus. In his story there is recorded suggestion of head transplant and that impressed me and that was my inspiration -- Is this an idle/ inferior/fanatic mind. Jambu:noidea:

Namaste Dr.T.N.Jambunathanji,

Sir I seek your apologies for being judgmental.

What if Dr. Christian Barnard is/was not inspired by Lord Ganesha? or changes his stand in future? then shall we all
seek/find a different Dr.?
or
wait for a time when some Dr. gets inspired by Lord Ganesha?
or
play a different tune?

My opinion is that the acceptance/merits of any Belief System should not be based on approval/disapproval of/from scientific theories/proof, Einstein, Dr. Christian Barnard, Charles Darwin, Popular Spiritual Guru, EVR, Karunanidhi and/or any Tom/Dick/Harry (incld myself).

"I think this is simply work of an idle/inferior/fanatic mind."
Once again I am sorry for my reaction.

Jai SiyaRaam
 
An 83-year-old Indian holy man who says he has spent seven decades without food or water has astounded a team of military doctors who studied him during a two-week observation period.


NN, you may believe whatever you want, so this comment is not for you.

Folks except NN, This Prahlad Jani is a fraud. The DRDO doctors are gullible idiots. The doctors who conducted this so called experiments are staunch followers of this Spiritual Fraud called Prahlad Jani.

Please visit the following links for more details.

James Randi's response

Beyond Bodily Needs: Prahlad Jani & The Solarian Scam Rational Thoughts: Unlimited

India's man who lives on sunshine | Sanal Edamaruku | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk
 
Namaste Dr.T.N.Jambunathanji,

Sir I seek your apologies for being judgmental.

What if Dr. Christian Barnard is/was not inspired by Lord Ganesha? or changes his stand in future? then shall we all
seek/find a different Dr.?
or
wait for a time when some Dr. gets inspired by Lord Ganesha?
or
play a different tune?

My opinion is that the acceptance/merits of any Belief System should not be based on approval/disapproval of/from scientific theories/proof, Einstein, Dr. Christian Barnard, Charles Darwin, Popular Spiritual Guru, EVR, Karunanidhi and/or any Tom/Dick/Harry (incld myself).

"I think this is simply work of an idle/inferior/fanatic mind."
Once again I am sorry for my reaction.

Jai SiyaRaam

judges do not apologize They listen weigh the arguments and come to conclusion and it is not their opinion but a conclusion They always give judgment for cases presented before them only

Now you apologize for your judgment why?. what was the case presented before you? Are you judging the case before you? I think you are evasive on the discussion in front of you and trying to establish a point may be dear to you but irrelevant in the case before you
by beating about the bush So be it.:amen: Jambu
 
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nachi naga

Guest
Rama,Kothanda Rama

Lord Rama: Fact or Fiction, by Stephen Knapp


The idea of whether Lord Rama exists or not has been called into question, by no less than some of the politicians in India.

There are also numerous places that are indicated as the locations where various events happened in reference to the pastimes of Lord Rama and Sita. I have personally visited many of these places, such as Ramesvaram, Nasik, Hampi, and others where there are particular locations and sites that are related to the events that took place in the life and adventures of Lord Rama. Many people accept these sites as the locations for the events described in the Ramayana. So how can this be unless there are not some reality behind it?

However, why is there not more archaeological evidence that points towards Rama’s existence? Because such an effort has not been made in India and systematic excavations have never been carried out, says historian Nandita Krishnan. She says that to doubt the existence of Rama is to doubt all literature.

She also describes in summary what areas the events of Lord Rama’s life took place. She explains: “The Ramayana is geographically very correct. Every site on Rama's route is still identifiable and has continuing traditions or temples to commemorate Rama's visit. Around 1000 BC or earlier, no writer had the means to travel around the country inventing a story, fitting it into local folklore and building temples for greater credibility.

“In 1975 the Archaeological Survey of India (ASI) unearthed fourteen pillar bases of kasauti stone with Hindu motifs near the mosque at Ayodhya; reports of the excavations are available with the ASI. Rama was born in Ayodhya and married in Mithila, now in Nepal. Not far from Mithila is Sitamarhi, where Sita was found in a furrow, still revered as the Janaki kund constructed by her father Janaka. Rama and Sita left Mithila for Ayodhya via Lumbini. In 249 BC, Ashoka erected a pillar in Lumbini with an inscription referring to the visits by both Rama and Buddha to Lumbini. Ashoka was much nearer in time to Rama and would be well aware of his facts.

“Rama, Lakshmana and Sita left Ayodhya and went to Sringaverapura - modern Sringverpur in Uttar Pradesh - where they crossed the River Ganga. They lived on Chitrakoot hill where Bharata and Shatrughna met them and the brothers performed the last rites for their father. Thereafter, the three wandered through Dandakaranya in Central India, described as a land of Rakshasas, obviously tribes inimical to the brothers' habitation of their land. Tribals are still found in these forests. The trio reached Nasik, on the River Godavari, which throbs with sites and events of Rama's sojourn, such as Tapovan where they lived, Ramkund where Rama and Sita used to bathe, Lakshmankund, Lakshmana's bathing area, and several caves in the area associated with their lives in the forest.

“Rama then moved to Panchavati near Bhadrachalam (AP), where Ravana abducted Sita. The dying Jatayu told them of the abduction, so they left in search of Sita. Kishkinda, near Hampi, where Rama first met Sugriva and Hanuman, is a major Ramayana site, where every rock and river is associated with Rama. Anjanadri, near Hospet, was the birthplace of Hanuman (Anjaneya); Sugriva lived in Rishyamukha on the banks of the Pampa (Tungabhadra); Sabari probably also lived in a hermitage there. Rama and the Vanara army left Kishkinda to reach Rameshwaram, where the Vanaras built a bridge to Lanka from Dhanushkodi on Rameshwaram Island to Talaimannar in Sri Lanka. While parts of the bridge - known as Rama Setu (Tamil: இராமர் பாலம் Rāmar pālam, Sanskrit: रामसेतु),Adam's Bridge - are still visible, NASA's satellite has photographed an underwater man-made bridge of shoals in the Palk Straits, connecting Dhanushkodi and Talaimannar. On his return from Sri Lanka, Rama worshiped Shiva at Rameshwaram, where Sita prepared a Linga out of sand. It is still one of the most sacred sites of Hinduism.

“Sri Lanka also has relics of the Ramayana. There are several caves, such as Ravana Ella Falls, where Ravana is believed to have hidden Sita to prevent Rama from finding her. The Sitai Amman Temple at Numara Eliya is situated near the ashokavana where Ravana once kept her prisoner."

In describing the places in Sri Lanka that are associated with Lord Rama and the Ramayana, "Sri Lankan folklore and religious scholars have identified more than 30 places on the island which are associated with the Ramayana. And interestingly enough, people in these places have a strong sense of history and lore, and a strong sense of possession. They are proud of their association with the Hindu epic," explained S. Kalaiselvan, director general Sri Lanka Tourism Development Authority. This is the case, even though 90 percent of the people in the Ramayana-related areas are Sinhalese Buddhists.

According to the Ramayana, Ravana brought Sita to Sri Lanka by a vehicle called 'Pushpaka Vimanam' by the Hindus and 'Dandu Monara Yanthraya' by the Sinhalese Buddhists. According to mythology, this vehicle landed at Werangatota, about 10 km from Mahiyangana, east of the hill station of Nuwara Eliya, in central Sri Lanka. Sita was then taken to Goorulupota, now known as Sitakotuwa, where Ravana's wife, Mandodari, lived. Seetakotuwa is about 10 km from Mahiyangana on the road to Kandy. Sita was housed in a cave at Sita Eliya, on the Colombo-Nuwara Eliya road. There is a temple for her there. She is believed to have bathed in the mountain stream flowing beside the temple.

North of Nuwara Eliya, in Matale district, is Yudhaganapitiya, where the Rama-Ravana battle took place. According to a Sinhalese legend, Dunuwila is the place from where Rama shot the 'Bramshira' arrow that killed Ravana. The Sri Lankan king was chalking out his battle plans in a place called Lakgala when the killer arrow struck him. Lakgala is a rock from the top of which Ravana could see north Sri Lanka clearly. It served as a watchtower following the expectation that Rama would invade the island to rescue his consort. Ravana's body was placed on the rock at Yahangala for his subjects to pay their last respects. Since Ravana was a Brahmin, it was considered a sin to kill him, even in battle. To wash off the sin, Rama performed puja at the Munneswaram temple in Chilaw, 80 km north of Colombo. At Manaweri, north of Chilaw, there is a temple gifted by Rama.

According to another legend from the southern part of Sri Lanka, Sita was actually detained in the mountainous forest area of Rumassala near Galle. When she fell ill, Hanuman wanted to bring some medicinal plants from the Dronagiri mountain in the Himalayan chain to cure her. Since he could not find the plants, he brought the whole mountain and dropped it at Unawatuna, which is near the present Galle harbour. Unawatuna means 'here it fell'. Indeed, the area is known for its medicinal plants.

At Ramboda, in the central highlands, known for its massive waterfalls, a temple for Hanuman has now sprung up as the belief is that he had visited Sita who was incarcerated there. Legend has it that the Koneswaram temple, in the eastern district of Trincomalee, was gifted by Lord Shiva to Ravana, as he was an ardent devotee. In the famous Buddha Vihara at Kelani, near Colombo, there is a representation of Rama handing over captured Sri Lanka to Ravana's brother, Vibheeshana, who sided with him in his conflict with Ravana.

Nandita Krishnan continues to explain the importance of these holy sites, “All the places visited by Rama still retain memories of his visit, as if it happened yesterday. Time, in India, is relative. Some places have commemorative temples; others commemorate the visit in local folklore. But all agree that Rama was going from or to Ayodhya. Why doubt connections when literature, archaeology and local tradition meet? Why doubt the connection between Rama Setu (Tamil: இராமர் பாலம் Rāmar pālam, Sanskrit: रामसेतु),Adam's Bridge and Rama, when nobody else in Indian history has claimed its construction? Why doubt that Rama traveled through Dandakaranya or Kishkinda, where local non-Vedic tribes still narrate tales of Rama? Why doubt that he was born in and ruled over Ayodhya?

“Rama's memory lives on because of his extraordinary life and his reign, which was obviously a period of great peace and prosperity, making Ramarajya a reference point. People only remember the very good or the very bad. Leftist historians have chosen to rubbish archaeology, literature and local tradition.”

Unfortunately, the sites of the Ramayana and Mahabharata have now been built over many times and it may never be possible to excavate extensively either at Ayodhya or Mathura.”

To further verify this aspect of the history of Lord Rama, Pushkar Bhatnagar concludes that geographical evidence for the epics is abundant. There still exist many places like Rameshwaram, Kishkindha, Kurukshetra, Hastinapura, etc. where the visits of Rama and Krishna are a basic part of local folklore.

Lack of archaeological evidence is no excuse for denying the existence of history, sums up Bhatnagar. "If the buildings of that time over 7000 years ago do not exist today, can we just infer that civilizations and personalities of that time also did not exist?"

In literature, we have the Ramayana and other texts such as the Puranas which also relate and verify the history and existence of Lord Rama. People from many other regions of the world have also accepted the Ramayana as worthy of attention, devotion, and historical evidence. For example, we can see the affects of the Ramayana tradition in many countries who have adapted their own form of the Ramayana and worship of Lord Rama, especially in the countries of Southeast Asia. These include Burma (Myanmar), Cambodia (Capuchia), Thailand, Indonesia, Malaysia, the Philippines and Vietnam. Other areas can also be found where the influence of the history of Lord Rama is in affect, such as the continent of Africa was once known as Kushadvipa for having been ruled by Kush, one of Lord Rama’s sons.

The other fact is that many millions of people feel the reciprocation from Lord Rama whenever they engage in devotion to Him, or read the Ramayana, or hear the Ramayana in a katha, or watch a television show or movie about Him, or go to one of the temples dedicated to Him. This cannot be denied or neglected. Just because we have insensitive politicians who cannot perceive this reciprocation does not mean that we all are so spiritually undeveloped. This dedication and reciprocation has spread throughout the world.

There have also been astronomers who have identified the approximate time of the Ramayana by the descriptions of the stars and constellations as given in the Ramayana, or even in the Bhagavata Purana and other texts. Pushkar Bhatnagar, author of the book Dating the Era of Lord Rama, claims that there is a significant amount of information available to prove that Rama was a historical personality. He says, “Valmiki, who wrote the Ramayana, was a contemporary of Rama. While narrating the events of the epic, he has mentioned the position of the planets at several places.” He explains that by using recent planetary software, it has been possible to verify that these planetary positions actually took place precisely as specified in the Ramayana. These were not just stray events, but the entire sequence of the planetary positions as described by Valmiki at various stages of Rama’s life can be verified today as having taken place.

Bhatnagar goes on to explain: “This information is significant, since these configurations do not repeat for lakhs of years and cannot be manipulated or imagined so accurately, without the help of sophisticated software. The inference that one can draw is that someone was present there to witness the actual happening of these configurations, which got recorded in the story of Rama."

Bhatnagar provides the following quote from the Ramayana: “Rama was born on the Navami tithi of Shukla Paksha of Chaitra masa (9th day of the increasing phase of the moon in the lunar month of Chaitra). At that time, the nakshatra was Punarvasu, and Sun, Mars, Saturn, Jupiter and Venus were in Aries, Capricorn, Libra, Cancer and Pisces respectively. Lagna was Cancer and Jupiter & Moon were shining together. — Ramayana 1.18.8,9

The conditions can be summarized as follows, according to Bhatnagar:
1. Sun in Aries
2. Saturn in Libra
3. Jupiter in Cancer
4. Venus in Pisces
5. Mars in Capricorn
6. Lunar month of Chaitra
7. 9th day after New Moon (Navami Tithi, Shukla Paksh)
8. Moon near Punarvasu Nakshatra (Pollux star in Gemini constellation)
9. Cancer as Lagna (Cancer constellation rising in the east)
10. Jupiter above the horizon

According to the Planetarium software, it provides the following date: Sri Rama Navami - 10th January 5114 BCE - Birth Day of Rama, Observation at 12.30 p.m.

Bhatnagar continues: “By using a powerful planetarium software, I found that the planetary positions mentioned in Ramayana for the date of birth of Lord Ram had occurred in the sky at around 12.30 p.m. of 10th January 5114 BC. It was the ninth day of the Shukla Paksh of Chaitra month too. Moving forward, after 25 years of the birth of Lord Ram, the position of planets in the sky tallies with their description in Ramayana. Again, on the amavasya (new moon) of the 10th month of the 13th year of exile the solar eclipse had indeed occurred and the particular arrangement of planets in the sky was visible. ( Date comes to 7th October, 5077 BC). Even the occurrence of subsequent two eclipses also tally with the respective description in Valmiki Ramayana. (Date of Hanuman’s meeting Sita at Lanka was 12th September, 5076 BC). In this manner the entire sequence of the planetary positions gets verified and all the dates can be precisely determined.”

Although this provides verification of the existence for Lord Rama according to calculations as given in the Ramayana, some people feel the timing for the day and year of His birth may be different than what the planetarium software indicates. For example, Vedic astrologer Nartaka Gopala devi dasi points out that "Regarding the calculation of Lord Rama’s birth as 10th of January 5114 BCE - Birth Day of Rama, Observation at 12.30 PM, there are 2 reasons why this cannot be correct. His rising sign, or lagna, is Cancer. That places Aries in the tenth house, and He has the Sun in Aries. The placement of the Sun in any birth chart will tell the time of day of the birth. Sun in the tenth house means birth at noontime (approx. 11 AM to 2 PM). There are no exceptions to this. (Lord Krishna appeared at midnight, the Sun is in Leo, 4th house for Taurus rising. Birth at 6 PM means 7th house Sun. Birth at sunrise means 1st house Sun.) Also, in Lord Rama’s chart the Sun is in Aries, and the dates for Sun in Aries are fixed, which means the same each year on April 14th to May 13th. So how did the January 10 date come up? These two Jyotish corrections are common sense that any Vedic astrologer would immediately see." So there may be a difference in what the planetarium software suggests. This also corroborates why we who follow the Vedic calendar celebrate Lord Rama's appearance in April-May each year. So the traditional date appears accurate.

Furthermore, some people feel that the appearance of Lord Rama took place many thousands or even millions of years earlier, in the Treta-yuga. For example, the Bhagavata Purana clearly states that Lord Rama became king during Treta yuga (Bhag. 9.10.51). We have been in Kali-yuga for 5000 years. Before this was Dvapara-yuga which lasts 864,000 years. Before that was Treta-yuga, which lasts over 1,200,000 years. Thus, according to this, the existence of Lord Rama had to have been many thousands of years ago. And if Lord Rama appeared in one of the previous Treta-yugas, it would certainly indicate that Lord Rama appeared several million years ago. And this is exactly what is corroborated in the Vayu Purana.

In the Vayu Purana (70.47-48) [published by Motilal Banarsidass] there is a description of the length of Ravana’s life. It explains that when Ravana’s merit of penance began to decline, he met Lord Rama, the son of Dasarath, in a battle wherein Ravana and his followers were killed in the 24th Treta-yuga. The Roman transliteration of the verse is:
tretayuge chaturvinshe ravanastapasah kshayat
ramam dasharathim prapya saganah kshayamiyavan

The same Ramayana that gives the planetary descriptions (on which the above calculation is based) also tells that Lord Rama came in Treta-yuga. The Matsya Purana (47/240,243-246) is another source that also gives more detail of various avataras and says Bhagawan Rama appeared at the end of the 24th Treta-yuga.

There are 1000 Treta-yugas in one day of Brahma, and it is calculated that we are presently in the 28th cycle of the four yugas (called divya-yugas, which is a cycle of the four yugas, Satya-yuga, Treta-yuga, Dvapara-yuga, and then Kali-yuga) of Vaivasvata Manu, who is the seventh Manu in the series of 14 Manu rulers who exist in one kalpa or day of Brahma. Each Manu is considered to live for 71 such divya-yuga cycles. So, without getting too complicated about things, from the 24th Treta-yuga to the present age of this 28th cycle of Kali-yuga, there is obviously a difference of millions of years when Lord Rama manifested here on earth. This gives the period of Lord Rama approximately 18 million years ago. Furthermore, the planetary positions mentioned in the Ramayana would also have occurred multiple times in history prior to the calculated date. Of course, few people may believe this unless they are already familiar with the vast lengths of time that the Vedic literature deals with.

Nonetheless, maybe there is further reason why we should accept that Lord Rama appeared millions of years ago. In the Valmiki Ramayana, Sundara-Kanda (or Book 5), Chapter 4, verse 27, [Gita Press, Gorakhpur, India] it explains that when Hanuman first approached Ravana’s palace, he saw the doorways surrounded by horses and chariots, palanquins and aerial cars, beautiful horses and elephants, nay, with four-tusked elephants decked with jewels resembling masses of white clouds.

Elsewhere in the Valmiki Ramayana, Sundara-Kanda (or Book 5), Chapter 27, verses12, an ogress named Trijata has a dream of Lord Rama, which she describes to the other demoniac ogresses upon awakening. In that dream she sees Rama, scion of Raghu, united again with Sita. Sri Rama was mounted on a huge elephant, closely resembling a hill, with four tusks.

The question is how could there be a mention of the elephants with four tusks unless Valmiki and the people of his era were familiar with such creatures? A quick search on the Encarta Encyclopedia will let us know that these four-tusked elephants were known as Mastodontoidea, which are said to have evolved around 38 million years ago and became extinct about 15 million years ago when the shaggy and two tusked Mastodons increased in population. Now there’s something to think about, eh? So this would mean that the specific planetary configuration that is described in the Ramayana, and is verified by Pushkar Bhatnagar, may have indeed happened, but at a time millions of years prior to merely 10,000 years ago.

In this way, as we go through the evidence, we can see how Lord Rama was an actual historic personality, as described in the Ramayana and in other Puranic texts.
 
Dear Nachi naga
These things are beyond my rational comprehension I may consider them like science fiction of Valmiki era. That is exactly the reason I was questioning myself in my posting Science in Hinduism Am I reading too much? All the points you have referred are in peace with modern geography I cannot dispute it . But I will not or never say they are from idle/inferior/fanatic minds(in this case Hindus) Jambu:whoo:
 
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nachi naga

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Stephen A Great India Lover

Crimes Against India

And The Need to Protect its Ancient Vedic Tradition
1000 Years of Attacks on Hinduism And What to do About it
by Stephen Knapp

This is an extremely revealing and important book for protecting, preserving, and promoting the profound and ancient Vedic tradition of India. India is a most resilient country, and is presently becoming a great economic power in the world. It also has one of the oldest and dynamic cultures the world has ever known, but few people seem to understand the many trials and difficulties that the country has faced, or the present problems India is still forced to deal with in preserving the culture of the majority Hindus who live in the country. This is described in the real history of the country, which a decreasing number of people seem to recall.

Therefore, this book is to honor the efforts that have been shown by those in the past who fought and worked to protect India and its culture, and to help preserve India as the homeland of a living and dynamic Vedic tradition of Sanatana-dharma (the eternal path of duty, wisdom, and spiritual development).

There are also many people who do not know of the many angles and ways in which this profound heritage is being attacked and threatened today, and what we can do about it. There is much to do to protect this culture, and until we are aware of how it has been assaulted in the past, and how it is threatened in the present, we will not have the motivation to take a stand and defend it for its future.

Therefore, we should carefully understand:
· How there is presently a war against Hinduism and its yoga culture.
· The weaknesses of India that allowed invaders to conquer her.
· Lessons from India’s real history that should not be forgotten.
· The atrocities committed by the Muslim invaders, and how they tried to destroy Vedic culture and its many temples, and slaughtered thousands of Indian Hindus.
· How the British viciously exploited India and its people for its resources.
· How the cruelest of all Christian Inquisitions in Goa tortured and killed thousands of Hindus.
· Action plans for preserving and strengthening Vedic India today.
· How all Hindus and concerned people must stand up and be strong for protecting the universal spiritual traditions of Vedic culture.

In the darkest of eras that this world has seen and will see in the future, the Vedic tradition, the culture of yoga, will remain India’s gift to the people who inhabit this planet. It is this spiritual culture of Sanatana-dharma that remains the spiritual guide of humanity. This is the reason why India is here, and for the contribution that she makes, and the reason why we must work to protect it.
 
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