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India is Siuperpower stuff

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sravna

Well-known member
When you look at the countries that are perceived as making an impact on the world or atleast has that potential there are four major countries: India, China, US and Japan.

Interestingly distinct philosophies may be associated with each of them, due to cultural or other reasons in the way these countries have or may proceed to the superpower status.

China is a country that is known for its math prowess or emphasis on education in general, US for its contribution to Science and Japan for its innovative technology and India is the land of Spirituality.

India needs to focus hard on its strengths, especially gifts it inherited from the past. Spirituality is all about mental discipline and control and enhancing our practical intelligence. If we can work on that diligently we are in effect more prepared to do the other tasks.

Let china do the math, let USA hypothesize and Japan implement but let India be in control !

Seriously, I thinkthe gifts passed on by our ancestors are too precious not to be used.
 

Nara

Well-known member
...China is a country that is known for its math prowess or emphasis on education in general, US for its contribution to Science and Japan for its innovative technology and India is the land of Spirituality.

Dear sravana, Greetings!

I have serious doubts about what you state as the strong points of US, China, and Japan, but I am sure today's India has nothing new or interesting to offer in the field of philosophical thought. The so called "spiritual" masters are tied down to what is claimed to be Vedic "truths" so full of contradictions and useless stuff, most people reject them as வறட்டு வேதாந்தம். For the common man the only thing that matters is materialism, even his so called spiritual bent is to maximize the likelihood of realizing material objectives.

If you take the last 2 to 3 hundred years, most of the interesting inquiry into the nature and purpose of life are taking place in the west.

Cheers!
 

sangom

Well-known member
When you look at the countries that are perceived as making an impact on the world or atleast has that potential there are four major countries: India, China, US and Japan.

Interestingly distinct philosophies may be associated with each of them, due to cultural or other reasons in the way these countries have or may proceed to the superpower status.

China is a country that is known for its math prowess or emphasis on education in general, US for its contribution to Science and Japan for its innovative technology and India is the land of Spirituality.

India needs to focus hard on its strengths, especially gifts it inherited from the past. Spirituality is all about mental discipline and control and enhancing our practical intelligence. If we can work on that diligently we are in effect more prepared to do the other tasks.

Let china do the math, let USA hypothesize and Japan implement but let India be in control !

Seriously, I thinkthe gifts passed on by our ancestors are too precious not to be used.
Shri Sravna,

You seem to be the second avataar of Vivekananda who also proclaimed the invincible spiritual super power of India (Bharat) even when it was under the complete domination of the materialistic mleccha called Britisher! He went away without realizing his proclamations coming true. (A steady stream of gurus - genuine and fake - made a bee line to the western US coast after him and that flow of "spirituality is still ever ready to flow!!That alone was/is the result.) Now, more than a century later, I wish you are able to realize it in your life time.

BTW you have not given any "plan of action" for realizing your dream (I would think so.). V at least gave a slogan (now almost forgotten except in some logos) uttishTata, jAgrata, prApyavarAn nibOdhata (arise, awake, rest not until thy goal is reached), what is yours?
 
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SuryaKasyapa

Active member
India is far ahead than what it was at the time of Independence. It is the result of the vision of many of our leaders and the sincere efforts (whether quantifiable at individual level or not) of the countrymen.

While it may be a disputable matter , as to how much was the vision and how much the success- it cannot be disputed that , India is now not the country,thought/propagandised by the Western and European or any other nations as - a country ,only ,of snake charmers, fakirs and sadhus,photographable "bone"- ey babies on their mothers;laps.

While sarcasm can be anybody's right, it is a fact that at least for the US and other"giants"- India is a growing market-though definitely not as in the historic"East India Company" style.

A dream can be dismissed as a result of half sleep- but dreams only turn to vision,drawing board plan,and then sturdy structures.

Sri Sravana has his right to dream- and I am one who support it.and sure that there are millions of patriotic Indians who share the dream, and do something ,however minute it may be - by word and deed
to see it a reality, if not in our life-time ,in the coming generation.

Greetings
 
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Nara

Well-known member
Dear Shri SuryaKasyapa, Greetings!

India is far ahead than what it was at the time of Independence. It is the result of the vision of many of our leaders and the sincere efforts (whether quantifiable at individual level or not) of the countrymen.

[..]

India is now not the country,thought/propagandised by the Western and European or any other nations as - a country ,only ,of snake charmers, fakirs and sadhus,

Yes sir, this is indeed true, India is a different country now compared to what it was some 60 years ago. In spite of all the corruption and caste-based retrograde tendencies, people in general share a sense of right and wrong that is progressive. Caste or community based atrocities do not get the same traction as, say, in the Balkan or central African countries. To some extent Indians are even more accepting of minorities than even the Americans. If only we can caste aside the caste-based differences, you may disagree with me on this count and I respect that, we will truly be the shining city on the hill that the Americans so self-servingly claim as they are.

Sri Sravana has his right to dream
Sure, Sri sravana has that right, but, our dream should be not to become another superpower like the U.S., or even think of ourselves as better or stronger than somebody else, but just go about fulfilling the just due of every Indian citizen, high or low, the same way the north-European countries do, without much fanfare or claims to exceptionalism.

Cheers!
 
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sravna

sravna

Well-known member
Dear Shri Nara, Shri Sangom,

I would strongly contest the statement that the vedas are full of contradictions. Let us first try try to comprehend the coherence in the basic premises such as atman is brahman and maya is the cause of relative reality. The pieces would then neatly fit in. I would even say that not only are the vedas totally coherent but also the vedangas such as astrology, ayurveda etc are equally coherent. The truth is you don't find even a fraction of that coherence in the so called great intellectual achievements in Science such as relativity theory or the quantum mechanics.

Mind is like the engine in a machine. The ancients gave the ways to stregthen and empower it. I think that focus was very wise and nothing to be pooh poohed.
 
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sravna

sravna

Well-known member
Dear Shri Sangom,

Much more effective than a single person preparing a plan of action and trying to implement it which I call the force approach I would rather prefer that the common man do it voluntarily himself what that is good for his country and therefore for himself.

The trick therefore is to work on the psyche of the people so that they realize the treasured wisdom they have got from the past and that which is unique to India and make use of it in their life.

Sadly the psyche of not only the average Indian but also the elite is ridden with the feeling that whatever is western
is superior to the point of denigrating and ridiculing our own culture. Funny feeling to anyone who can see beyond the materialistic gloss
 

sangom

Well-known member
Dear Shri Sangom,

Much more effective than a single person preparing a plan of action and trying to implement it which I call the force approach I would rather prefer that the common man do it voluntarily himself what that is good for his country and therefore for himself.

The trick therefore is to work on the psyche of the people so that they realize the treasured wisdom they have got from the past and that which is unique to India and make use of it in their life.

Sadly the psyche of not only the average Indian but also the elite is ridden with the feeling that whatever is western
is superior to the point of denigrating and ridiculing our own culture. Funny feeling to anyone who can see beyond the materialistic gloss
Shri Sravna,

Will you kindly tell the steps you have taken in your life to implement your own philosophy, i.e., eschewing all western ideas, goods, conveniences. etc. As a first step I suggest you completely eschew computer from your life and depend on "mail runners" as in our very Indian times. perhaps you should also use only hand-made paper, quill and native ink prepared from கடுக்காய் (which was known as "Indian ink") and so on. If you set an example like that and start the "trick therefore is to work on the psyche of the people so that they realize the treasured wisdom they have got from the past and that which is unique to India and make use of it in their life" may be one or two people close to you may be attracted by your philosophy and change in due course and so on.
 
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sravna

sravna

Well-known member
Dear Shri Sangom,

I am not against Science or technology per se but only that one should not be carried away by it. One should be able to realize their limitations while at the same time not underestimating what our own mind can do.

Regards,
Srinivasan
 

sangom

Well-known member
India is far ahead than what it was at the time of Independence. It is the result of the vision of many of our leaders and the sincere efforts (whether quantifiable at individual level or not) of the countrymen.

While it may be a disputable matter , as to how much was the vision and how much the success- it cannot be disputed that , India is now not the country,thought/propagandised by the Western and European or any other nations as - a country ,only ,of snake charmers, fakirs and sadhus,photographable "bone"- ey babies on their mothers;laps.

While sarcasm can be anybody's right, it is a fact that at least for the US and other"giants"- India is a growing market-though definitely not as in the historic"East India Company" style.

A dream can be dismissed as a result of half sleep- but dreams only turn to vision,drawing board plan,and then sturdy structures.

Sri Sravana has his right to dream- and I am one who support it.and sure that there are millions of patriotic Indians who share the dream, and do something ,however minute it may be - by word and deed
to see it a reality, if not in our life-time ,in the coming generation.

Greetings
Shri Suryakasyapa,

Since you have referred to "sarcasm" and since i had knowingly used a bit of sarcasm in the fervent hope that it may make Shri Sravna to start rethinking about how impractical it is, you could, as well, have addressed your post to me.

Anyway, Shri Nara has already replied and there is nothing more which I can add to that.

You will kindly see that while I do not have any criticism against anyone hoping for progress of our country, what struck me as outlandish were (1) Sravna's dream of India becoming a superpower like US, China and Japan; Japan does not anymore dream of super power status (and I doubt if it ever harboured such a notion after Hirohito's abortive WW II attempt to exhibit Japan's superpower ambitions) and is, with lot of difficulty, trying to put its own house in some financial stability now, and (2) the respective strengths identified by him, of the four countries in his short-list, which sort of astounded me; China's math prowess or emphasis on education in general, US' contribution to Science and Japan for its innovative technology, and India's Spirituality! AFAIK China at present is not a leading nation in mathematical research (someone correct me if Iam wrong) whereas Scotland does much; US could not have done anything to Science without Mathematics and innovative technology for space- and other research; Japan's innovative technology has reached a plateau; and the wonder of all how Sravna expects India with its spirituality to "control" the other three (...Let china do the math, let USA hypothesize and Japan implement but let India be in control !

Seriously, I thinkthe gifts passed on by our ancestors are too precious not to be used.?)

Seriously, I think Shri Sravna should review his dream; though I agree with you that he is free to dream anything, there is to be some propriety when coming to giving vocal/written expression to one's dreams; don't you think?.
 
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sravna

sravna

Well-known member
What a reply. For some one who I assume is an Indian citizen to think that India becoming superpower is outlandish sums up the real cause of bottleneck that afflicts our progress.

If someone like Shri Sangom who is well educated, which I assume from his posts takes this stance imagine how much can a common man be influenced in taking this view.

I did not mean to associate the strengths to each country in the strict sense that Shri Sangom tries to portray but more to emphasize the type of strengths that seem to dominate now and to an extent the association seems to reflect the reality.

I can only say that the only force that can stop us from becoming a super power are our own selves . This truth which applies to a person would be true for a country too.
 

sangom

Well-known member
What a reply. For some one who I assume is an Indian citizen to think that India becoming superpower is outlandish sums up the real cause of bottleneck that afflicts our progress.
People who made their country better, more powerful, etc., did not dream of impossibilities like "making my country a super power". Their dreams were modest and such modest dreams only enriched their country.

If someone like Shri Sangom who is well educated, which I assume from his posts takes this stance imagine how much can a common man be influenced in taking this view.
Now that you have started personal insinuations like I may not be well-educated, etc., because your dream does not find approbation from people like me, I may say that even you are not likely to see anything nearing your dream, in your life time. (I presume you are young whereas I have only very few years to traverse.)

I would request you to better focus your attention and strength and do something constructive in your work area to see that a mighty neighbour does not swallow the choicest pieces of our country within the next 10 or 15 years, or, alternatively India disintegrates like the former USSR, instead of wasting your time and energy in such meaningless dreams! And if my words do come true, pl. remember me for a second then.

Only people who act can contribute to the country's progress, not those who merely indulge in phantasies.


I did not mean to associate the strengths to each country in the strict sense that Shri Sangom tries to portray but more to emphasize the type of strengths that seem to dominate now and to an extent the association seems to reflect the reality.
I have already explained that China's mathematical prowess and Japan's innovative technology are just in your imagination, and not in reality. Of course, the Chinese are very shrewd when it comes to calculating their future plans in realpolitiks.

I can only say that the only force that can stop us from becoming a super power are our own selves . This truth which applies to a person would be true for a country too.
Not exactly. There are many, many extraneous forces going against us, including calculations of different nations about their own betterment in the world of realpolitiks, astrological factors, the corrupt and self-serving leadership in this country, and so on.
 
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sravna

sravna

Well-known member
Dear Shri Sangom,

I have nothing to argue with you sir when you say that a "dream" for leadership status for one's own country is something which should not be aired there.

I did not or do not mean to sound disresptful to you but it is only that the views you hold if held by the majority assures mediocrity for India in the future
 

kunjuppu

Well-known member
sravana, surya,

greetings.

i have to go along with you in your dreams. there is nothing wrong in dreams. but maybe we should just leave it at that. dreams.

to put your dreams re india and compare it to reality, i think, both of you perhaps need to visit china. the means they use may not be right, but the ends they achieve are astounding. if you are not able to visit china, travel through the web to beijing, shanghai and also their free trade zones.

to me, whatever we attempt to do, they seem to be doing it better, and most important, faster.

we can live in our dreamy comfort, that we are the tortoise, and eventually will be the chinese hare. nothing wrong in that.

indeed i would agree with you, that it would be unpatriotic to india, to dream otherwise. but it would be a dose of incredulity or ignorance, to interpret those dreams in terms of current day reality. or foreseeable future.

a true superpower, does not need to announce itself or beat its breast. it will be self evident. the economic, political and military clout will speak for themselves. there is no need to shout out from the rooftops 'we are a superpower'. to do so, would be similar, to the donkey that clad itself in a lion's skin and pretended to scare other animals,...., till it opened its mouth :)

to start off, the leadership should have a long range vision. and then go about methodically to achieve it. china has made bold statements about its vision - measurable objectives, and one by one, scored them off as these were acheived.

still, the prime minister, as recently as a few months ago, when challenged with those trillion dollar reserves, was modest. he claimed, that china was a poor country (true), vast interior undeveloped (true) and had ways to go before being considered developed (true) and hence to move to a floating currency (false).

today china is screwing the rest of the world manufacturing with its undervalued currency. and also the fact that perhaps it is the sole supplier of majority of consumer goods. what do we say? if china increases the value of its currency, then we pay more and china accumulates more wealth. if the currency stays as is, no one else can compete. we are forced to buy chinese goods. no matter what, china wins.

now, let us start dreaming, that we will emulate china. and be a better learner than the master.

re spiritual heritage: we can still peddle those. right now ravi shankar is doing a great job peddling those stuff to a new market - russia.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/15/world/europe/15iht-moscow.html
 

Nara

Well-known member
[...]to me, whatever we attempt to do, they seem to be doing it better, and most important, faster.

[...]

a true superpower, does not need to announce itself or beat its breast. it will be self evident.

Dear K, as I was growing up comparing me with others and telling me to be like A in studies, like B in sports, like C in singing, was routine. I am still struggling with the indelible inferiority complex that was drilled into me. You are probably talking about benchmarking and charting a course to get there, and that is good. But, we should set our own goals and not constantly compare with the dragon to the northeast.

IMO, ordinary Indians dreaming about India becoming a superpower is not a good idea. What good does it do a common man? The political elites may get to throw their weight around in the international arena. "Superpower" mentality will only bring trouble for the whole nation.

Let us dream that India is able to provide the basic necessities of life for everyone, provide opportunities to pursue anything he/she wants and is capable of, to have leisure to enjoy life, to be free from poverty, to be free to be happy and compassionate. Let China or any other country become a superpower.

Cheers!
 

kunjuppu

Well-known member
...Let us dream that India is able to provide the basic necessities of life for everyone, provide opportunities to pursue anything he/she wants and is capable of, to have leisure to enjoy life, to be free from poverty, to be free to be happy and compassionate. Let China or any other country become a superpower.

Cheers!

... but that would be modest, realistic and honest. it goes against the grain of our society (i believe) :)
 

SuryaKasyapa

Active member
Sri Nara,Sangom,Kunjuppu,

Thank you ,all, for your response to my post.

In fact, I did not start the thread.But I felt that, a possible discussion is going to be nipped in the bud itself by an attacking response. Hence, to prevent death of the thread at start itself, I came with my staunch support to the thread initiator.That is all.

However, I cannot agree with you all when you say that Indians should not dream or have a vision of becoming a super power.

The world situation was bipolar,till the bubble called Soviet Union burst.At that time nobody thought of any other country becoming Super Power,as the world was partitioned by both of them as their ally or antagonist.
Even at that time India has spearheaded the no-alignment movement which had been getting good backing from many countries, who were termed third world countries.( reluctantly because the two powers were not happy of any residual existence other than under their aprons)

The leftists in India were trumpeting big by quoting Soviet Union or China in all matters of devlopment.(Then they chose only one of them based on whether they were the "Left" leftists or "Right" leftists.)

China saved collapse by crushing democratic rising for reforms. Even the US was crying at peak about Tianmen square incident. But now,as US is scouting for markets for getting its perennial supplies, and relatively it suits it to befriend China, it has chosen to side and support China rather than China.

That is why it gave democratic India -(,which should have become its natural ally )- just Coca Cola and Pepsi, whereas it gave China technical knowhow of supe computer.

How can we be sure about what is coming out of China reflects the true state of affairs? Even the most "free" US has to act blind and could not effectively react, when free communications like , internet ( google etc) are blocked by China.

Even in early times also we had some supporters dancing when bugle is sounded in Peking.

US keeps its superpower status just because nobody questions it ,and if questioned, it dons the role of Global policman and goes for attacks.
World cannot forget Vietnam,Iraq etc nor its struggle near its own backyard Cuba.
Now just to fence its border with Mexico, it comes with new surcharges from immigrants-read mostly Indians..Still we call it a super power.

When measure of economy was takn as the strength of savings, and US was a no-saver , but biggest spender and debtor, new economic rules were initiated to save itself- propagating that spending is the measure of economy. As other countries were needing dollar for their needs , they also tom-toed this line and filled reams of paper and airwaves in repeating the same.

US advised other nations by advocating reforms in Banking and Finance, by "Capital adequacy norms" etc when they could not save their own banks,which fell like pack of cards.Their bankers exposed themselves ,their rashness or ignorance of sound credit in what is known as "sub-prime" lending. But when all developed economies and their stock market were crashing, it was India, which stood on sound grounds(thanks to RBI,and Indian Govt). West-turned economists were running helter-skelter to put forth new theories. Doomsayers vanished to find some new justifications.

If India cannot become super power, then who can?US did not want India to become a devloped nation,as then ,with its stable democracy it will outshine US. So the next course was to side and support China, to achieve the goal of not making India a Super power.Killing two birds with a stone.

When India showed the world its Nuclear expertise, US and Canada suppressed India by various negative actions.But kudos to the determination and devotion of our scientists and technologists, the country went ahead facing the sanctions. If the US is ready for the Nuclear pact, it is out of sheer acknowledgment that if India is not supported,and thereby subdued, then US will be isolated and many countries like Korea,Iran,Iraq,Pakistan etc etc will go ahead in either the wrong way or rougue way.

It is the clever trick of the Western propagandists to kill the self confidence of the countrymen that various planted propaganda are coming against India becoming Super power.

India has a right in the Antartica continent ,the North pole, the outer space,the missile technology,now the moon,s surface. It has demolished the monopoly of the selected few. That creates the fear.

It is to be carefully noted that the Indian Government and establishment ( whatever political party leads it) have never made any claim or declaration of becoming a Super Power. It is the patriotic countrymen and wellwishers across the Globe , who indicate the possibilities of such a happening.To smother the free expression of such a possibility by pooh-poohing the idea itself is- the very minimum to say- anti propaganda ,with or without interests.


Greetings.
 
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sravna

sravna

Well-known member
Dear Shri Surya Sir,

I feel criticisms and attacks are indeed signs that the idea is not pooh poohed. But one would expect it to come from outside and not within. If indeed it is within then it is a cause of real concern. As you rightly pointed out the self confidence of the people is being played with which I think is the most valuable asset if one has rise above the rest.

I wish the detractors instead of incessantly and tirelessly jumping in to point out what is wrong with India come out with something constructive for its progress. Even if nothing happens because of that atleast the respect for one's country will be left intact.
 

sangom

Well-known member
Dear Shri Surya Sir,

I feel criticisms and attacks are indeed signs that the idea is not pooh poohed. But one would expect it to come from outside and not within. If indeed it is within then it is a cause of real concern. As you rightly pointed out the self confidence of the people is being played with which I think is the most valuable asset if one has rise above the rest.

I wish the detractors instead of incessantly and tirelessly jumping in to point out what is wrong with India come out with something constructive for its progress. Even if nothing happens because of that atleast the respect for one's country will be left intact.
Shri Sravna,

My view has already been made clear; India is now at a stage where it has to be very careful to prevent its breakdown like the former USSR (which was a superpower and still could collapse), or getting attacked. Hence my patriotism, if you and Suryakasyapa will admit it, is to ensure that the road ahead for my country is made clear of obstacles. Only after that we can think or plan (not dream) about India becoming a superpower. One cannot run lying down; first he has to get up, stand and then only he can run.

You and Suryakasyapa think that a mere voicing of a so-called patriotic dream is enough to make India a superpower and you, on your part, are clueless as to how it can happen and cleverly ask others for constructive suggestions. I am reminded of some people coming at our doorsteps and saying that they have a வேண்டுதல் to go to some distant temple and want contributions!! I, on, my part will make a வேண்டுதல் which can be done within my ability.

So, if you feel your dream is what patriotism should be (and my views show a lack or even complete absence of it) please come up with your suggestions (other than exhorting every one to have the same dream).
 

Raghy

Well-known member
From my personal experiences and from listening to others....

The first step towards development into a brighter future is Dream. Everyone has to have a dream. Dreams are based on one's circumstance, environment, education,age and experience in life. (when I was 17 yrs old, I had a dream to be able to earn over Rs.1,000 per month. It may seem ridiculous today; but, I had few dreams...சின்ன சின்ன கனவுகள்!). Personally, I would welcome a youngster's dream to see his/country country as a superpower.

That takes us to step number 2. While it is a good idea to dream to reach the heavens, it is a better idea to focus on the ground level..do we have a ladder to climb to the roof level? Can we keep raising the roof and also increasing the ladder length? Can we keep the ladder sturdy for all to climb? Do we have good, objective, acheivable small plans which would carry us towards the bigger dream? We have to write down such plans. It is important to write them down, so that we can stay focused. Unless we write down, unless we tell it to others, we will forget our own dream.

Step number 3 is celebrations. For every step, every objective plan that gets successfully fulfilled should be marrked by celebrations. All the players involved in fulfilling that part of the dream should be honoured. Everyone should be comfortable to feel important and equal. Here is an example - After building the bridge (சேது), there should have been celebrations where Sri.Rama, Vanaraas ( வானரங்கள்) and the squirrel should be honored equitably. Everyone contributed their best!So, everyoneshould be equal.

Next step I can think of is, awareness.

தனி யுவன்/யுவதி முன்னேற்றம் - குடும்ப முன்னேற்றம்.
குடும்பங்களின் முன்னேற்றம் - சமூக முன்னேற்றம்.
சமூக முன்னேற்றம் - நாட்டு முன்னேற்றம்.

Sri.Sangom pointed out a very important step...safe guard your developments and acheivements. Such words are words of wisdom. One shouldbe aware of the dirty politics played by other countries and be vigilant to overcome such challenges.

Personally I am very happy to see a youngster writing down his dreams for the country. Sravna, I welcome your dreams. Kindly don't hesitate to draw strength from others to fulfil your dream.

Cheers!
 

sangom

Well-known member
Shri Suryakasyapa,

I shall first answer the last para of your post. You have said:

"It is the patriotic countrymen and wellwishers across the Globe , who indicate the possibilities of such a happening.To smother the free expression of such a possibility by pooh-poohing the idea itself is- the very minimum to say- anti propaganda ,with or without interests."

So, according to you all those who say "India can/will become superpower" are patriotic and those who voice difference are all unpatriotic at the least (if not rank traitors)!!

If GOI also takes a similar view I and people like me will have to spend the rest of our lives behind prison bars!! Still, I would stick to my view like the old nakkeeran (not the publishers) did. But what I would suggest to you is not to judge someone else's patriotism by such thumb rules. We are a democracy, which perhaps is our greatest weakness also, and freedom of expression is allowed.

Now coming to the rest of your post:

"However, I cannot agree with you all when you say that Indians should not dream or have a vision of becoming a super power.

The world situation was bipolar,till the bubble called Soviet Union burst.At that time nobody thought of any other country becoming Super Power,as the world was partitioned by both of them as their ally or antagonist.
Even at that time India has spearheaded the no-alignment movement which had been getting good backing from many countries, who were termed third world countries.( reluctantly because the two powers were not happy of any residual existence other than under their aprons)"


As I already said, there is no harm in dreaming and nobody objects to it either; the problem starts when you want others to extol your dream as patriotism and you become intolerant to any different view. Superpower status does not come by virtues like world expertise in spirituality (as Sravna in his initial post "dreamt"); it comes out of ruthless machiavellian manipulations in the world arena of realpolitiks and the extent of success of a power (nation) in such manipulations. USSR failed, and in one wrong step, it was brought down!!

China did not have democracy as we have in India at any time. It could crush Tianenmen uprising for various reasons, 1) the autocracy in power and 2) the force behind Tianenmen was most probably in fear of being exposed and so there was no great reprisal, 3) already China had acquired the "lakshanas" of a super power except manned space flight capability.

FYI, there was a "second world".

"The term "Second World" is a phrase that was used to describe the Communist states within the Soviet Union's sphere of influence or those countries that had centrally-planned economies.[1] Along with "First World" and "Third World", the term was used to divide the nations of Earth into three broad categories. In other words, the concept of "Second World" was a construct of the Cold War and the term has largely fallen out of use since the "Autumn of Nations" in 1989. Subsequently, the actual meaning of the terms "First World" and "Third World" changed from being based on political ideology to an economic definition (see the terms developed country and developing country).[1]"

(Second World - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

Nehru who also was more of an idealist and a dreamer (as compared to Vallabbhai patel who was a practical statesman, and who would have built a better India, IMO) thought - perhaps a dream of his, again - that he could ride on the third-world bandwagon as a world leader since the first and second worlds were closed to him. It did give him a few moments of great publicity alright but, in my view, it served more as a litmus test for the shrewd world leaders elsewhere to judge the real capabilities of Nehru, Nasser, Soekarno and Tito, mainly. It is now all but in paper, a moribund undertaking.
[
US is not finding the Chinese market as useful; it is more that US cannot live without the supply of the cheap goods from China and the equally cheap cars from Japan. Thus China has accumulated a very large US$ balance and is the ஈட்டிக்காரன் at the US' doors who can demand repayment of the dues anytime!! US has only one way open now : repudiate its debts, i.e., refuse to pay its dues, in the way some of the tamil movie heros do.

You have rhetorically made this observation:"If India cannot become super power, then who can?" I wonder whether you are under an impression that there are some fixed number of superpowers at any time and vacancies have to be filled by the most eligible! "One superpower and that should be me" is the ambition of every country or superpower and, as of today, US will see to it that no other country becomes a superpower, whether China or India or anyone else. The rules of the game are to checkmate the opponent and subdue him and step on to his head and push him down to the nether world. This requires not just dreamers in a country but a very disciplined (work-oriented) and productive (not of children but of goods and services) population and a leadership which has the country's standing in the world arena always in its aim. Both are pitiably lacking in India.

You talk of our nuclear expertise. Whatever knowledge we have is not even one bit more or original than what we could learn from the west; that means we have not been able to make any original breakthrough in the areas of nuclear power, nuclear fuels, nuclear arms or even space technology except doing expert copy-cat jobs. I shall be very happy if some well-informed members point out any original achievements in these areas made by India and for which India has copyrights or it is rumoured to hold it as its secret knowledge. And now, for even one new nuclear power plant we have to sign on the dotted line to whatever US says, meaning, we cannot ourselves design and make one nuclear power plant. Look at China: it has successfully got licence to modify the French reactor to suit its requirements and build its own reactors.

Let us not fool ourselves by blaming other nations; in this world, only might is right and unless this is understood and put into action, merely dreaming and then blaming everyone else for our incompetence is of no use. It may give satisfaction to some people that they have shown their patriotism adequately but it will serve no other practical purpose.
 
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sravna

sravna

Well-known member
Dear Shri Sangom,

As I said what applies to the evolution of a person applies to a nation too. The challenge is in developing a very strong self which is not vulnerable to external attacks.

Our country is not short of creative talent but is behind in the race because others started earlier. Science and technology is something that came from the west and no doubt they are leading in them now. The political leaders of our country should be true kshatriyas uncompromising when it comes to protecting India's interests but not a tyrant to its own citizens . The knowledge seekers or the reseachers and scientists should be true brahmins. Science and Technology only to the extent that it takes care of nation's defence and let us be in sync with the world. But overreliance on technology and materialism in general should be deempasized in a concerted manner.

This is where our spiritual heritage comes into play. Mental disciplining and inculcation of spiritual values should start very early in the life of a child and be part of the study curriculum. The child should grow in such a way that his self confidence, respect for his country and ethical values grow with him.

If the psyche of the citizen is well rounded and balanced the rest is lot more easy to accomplish.


I
 

sangom

Well-known member
Shri Sravna,

I had made a statement, in post # 12 as under:-
"I would request you to better focus your attention and strength and do something constructive in your work area to see that a mighty neighbour does not swallow the choicest pieces of our country within the next 10 or 15 years, or, alternatively India disintegrates like the former USSR, instead of wasting your time and energy in such meaningless dreams! And if my words do come true, pl. remember me for a second then."

Please see:

http://week.manoramaonline.com/cgi-bin/MMOnline.dll/portal/ep/theWeekContent.do?contentType=EDITORIAL&sectionName=COVER%20STORY&programId=1073755753&[email protected]@@&contentId=7882215

You will perhaps understand that first we have to ensure the welfare of our country and then think of superpower status and all that.

2. I had also asked you to give what your own individual action plan is in order to help India attain super-power status. So far you have not been able to spell anything. Hence I believe your feeling is that simply writing in a forum about your dream and belittling others who are more practical and down-to-earth will be sufficient to prove that you have a very high sense of patriotism and others don't have.
 
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sravna

sravna

Well-known member
Dear Shri Sangom,

It is not my intention to indulge in any personal insinuations. If you feel any of my posts was offensive to you I sincerely apologize for it.

But I do not understand why anyone should oppose the views that I had expressed or find it inappropriate to be discussed in a forum. Is it taboo or offensive to anyone per se?

Pragmatism is something which is subjective. You cannot say categorically someone or something is more pragmatic than another.

I still think the topic offers scope for useful contributions even more so if it started as a dream
 
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