In whom and what do you owe gratitude to

[shridisai]

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In whom and what do you owe gratitude to

 

[kunjuppu]

gratitude is a very tough concept to comprehend. let me give a life story somewhat personally tinged. it is just a story, but what i find interesting is where to draw the line re gratitude.

my own father was born posthumously. his mother died when he was 3. he was brought up by his uncle, in a household of about 40, including several orphaned cousins, widowed aunts etc by the one and only uncle. on high school graduation, due to some influence, the uncle procurred for my dad, room board education at psg institute peelamedu kovai.

in short had it not been for his uncle, dad would have been in the streets or an orphanage.

when he was seeking out his career, the uncle called him aside, and out of my dead paternal grandfather's cash estate (only cash was there), counted and gave him a sum of money, equidivided between dad & his brothers, after deducting for expenses incurred while dad was in his uncle's house (i dont know what those expenses were and it did not matter to my dad).

the uncle was a demi god to my dad and i myself was the uncle's pet, as he lived close to my own maternal grandparents.

years rolled by and i was ready for marriage. the uncle proposed one of his grand daughters, which my father accepted. as i was in canada, during my visit home, dad told me about this committment, and to him it was not only an honour, but a fitting act of gratitude to the man who gave him his life, and indirectly mine.

i refused. i knew the family too well, and wanted someone unrelated unknown and someone older with a mind of her own.

also she was 10 years younger than me, 18, just finished high school, and my dad arguement was that i could mould her to whatever i wanted, as she was still a child. i looked upon this as an additonal burden to mentor the growth of another human, at a stage of my life, when all i wanted was partnership, equality and friend. i did not want to be a guide, tutor and mentor.

it broke my father's already sick heart and for 2 years there was hardly any communication between him and me. the next visit, as a praayaschiththam, mom pointed a girl, and i accepted. but i could guess dad had his deep disappointments.

it is more than 34 years this happened, and dad mom long gone. i have always wondered where this concept of gratitude ended.

it is easy, if someone lends you money, you return it, you lend him money at another time, and he returns it. all even.

but in cases like this, does not gratitude is handed as an obligation to the next generation? we must remember that dad is a product of 1924 and all this uncle's home stay happened in 30s and 40s. he had virtually no one in the world to take care of him, as his two older brothers were also in the same boat.

i still have a soft heart for dad's uncles children and visit them in chennai when i am able to and keep in touch through facebook. so there is no hard feelings. the girl planned for me, is now a grand mother, for she was married off to someone in india and no more is heard of her.

gratitude. dad felt in my refusal, he had not exhibited gratitude to his uncle, who had in all these years, asked him, only this one favour.

 

[Raghy]

Greetings.

Gratitude. I don't know if I should write or not. I have to sleep on that idea.

From one angle it looks like fattening the goat but that goat doesn't know. From a different angle it looks like caring for a stray goat ... there was a talk of garlanding the goat.. that can not be denied....

Can a goat be garlanded for the goat to feel good? I don't know though. ( I know a bullock/ cow may be garlanded for the purpose of glorifying them.. but a goat?)

 

[P.J.]

gratitude is a very tough concept to comprehend. let me give a life story somewhat personally tinged. it is just a story, but what i find interesting is where to draw the line re gratitude.

my own father was born posthumously. his mother died when he was 3. he was brought up by his uncle, in a household of about 40, including several orphaned cousins, widowed aunts etc by the one and only uncle. on high school graduation, due to some influence, the uncle procurred for my dad, room board education at psg institute peelamedu kovai.

in short had it not been for his uncle, dad would have been in the streets or an orphanage.

when he was seeking out his career, the uncle called him aside, and out of my dead paternal grandfather's cash estate (only cash was there), counted and gave him a sum of money, equidivided between dad & his brothers, after deducting for expenses incurred while dad was in his uncle's house (i dont know what those expenses were and it did not matter to my dad).

the uncle was a demi god to my dad and i myself was the uncle's pet, as he lived close to my own maternal grandparents.

years rolled by and i was ready for marriage. the uncle proposed one of his grand daughters, which my father accepted. as i was in canada, during my visit home, dad told me about this committment, and to him it was not only an honour, but a fitting act of gratitude to the man who gave him his life, and indirectly mine.

i refused. i knew the family too well, and wanted someone unrelated unknown and someone older with a mind of her own.

also she was 10 years younger than me, 18, just finished high school, and my dad arguement was that i could mould her to whatever i wanted, as she was still a child. i looked upon this as an additonal burden to mentor the growth of another human, at a stage of my life, when all i wanted was partnership, equality and friend. i did not want to be a guide, tutor and mentor.

it broke my father's already sick heart and for 2 years there was hardly any communication between him and me. the next visit, as a praayaschiththam, mom pointed a girl, and i accepted. but i could guess dad had his deep disappointments.

it is more than 34 years this happened, and dad mom long gone. i have always wondered where this concept of gratitude ended.

it is easy, if someone lends you money, you return it, you lend him money at another time, and he returns it. all even.

but in cases like this, does not gratitude is handed as an obligation to the next generation? we must remember that dad is a product of 1924 and all this uncle's home stay happened in 30s and 40s. he had virtually no one in the world to take care of him, as his two older brothers were also in the same boat.

i still have a soft heart for dad's uncles children and visit them in chennai when i am able to and keep in touch through facebook. so there is no hard feelings. the girl planned for me, is now a grand mother, for she was married off to someone in india and no more is heard of her.

gratitude. dad felt in my refusal, he had not exhibited gratitude to his uncle, who had in all these years, asked him, only this one favour.

Sri.Kunjuppu Sir
For your father, the uncle who brought him up is like his father, he definitely owes a gratitude to him; in your case, i am doubtful.
one can always show gratitude in different ways.

 

[C RAVI]

Gratitude...It's a tricky concept!!

To me, one thing that is clear is, Gratitude gives true meaning when something offered that is the most needed by the person who deserves to be granted with what he/she is lacking with or much bothered about. And is expressing his/her need.

BUT, there are certain things in life, as mentioned by Shri Kunjuppu in his post no.2, which can paralyze us from offering the exact needed.

Certain things in life can not be justified (like giving thumbs down to what needed by the deserving person) whatever may be the validity in our reasoning. That's what I strongly believe in. As a mere human we got to pull on as long as we are not really deceiving some one and be in peace.

 

[P.J.]

Gratitude...It's a tricky concept!!

As a mere human we got to pull on as long as we are not really deceiving some one and be in peace.

Well said Ravi Sir

 

[Raghy]

Sri. Ravi, Greetings.

..As a mere human we got to pull on as long as we are not really deceiving some one and be in peace.

I know what you mean. But in some cases what happens if we deceive ourselves? Can we keep on giving?

Let me provide couple of examples... Very regular strory.. this guy or girl toils in Gulf Countries and send money back to India. After a couple of decades finds out her near and dear bought properties on their names... the person who toiled left with nothing!

one more example... வேலியே பயிர் மேய்ந்த கதையாக.... if a person got deceived by his/her own parents, then what is the point? If that person if continues to give, then wouldn't that person be deceiving himself/herself?

In some exceptions, people don't go through usual experiences.

Cheers!

 

[C RAVI]

Sri. Ravi, Greetings.



I know what you mean. But in some cases what happens if we deceive ourselves? Can we keep on giving?

Let me provide couple of examples... Very regular strory.. this guy or girl toils in Gulf Countries and send money back to India. After a couple of decades finds out her near and dear bought properties on their names... the person who toiled left with nothing!

one more example... வேலியே பயிர் மேய்ந்த கதையாக.... if a person got deceived by his/her own parents, then what is the point? If that person if continues to give, then wouldn't that person be deceiving himself/herself?

In some exceptions, people don't go through usual experiences.

Cheers!

Shri Raghy,

You have highlighted a valid point...

But, the point of discussion here is about the most needed expression of gratitude as moral obligation towards some one who have substantially contributed for our life and or have stood by our side and have extensively helped us in time of troubles, emotionally, finantially etc. And not just about granting things to our near and dear ones just for the sake of relationship.

As far as I am concerned, I am of the view that, if my parents or my siblings cheat me, as a mere human I will certainly be sadened and pained BUT still would be happy that, I remained who I am and did things to my people who deserves from me, for their great contributions in my life that has made me stand where I am now.

I for sure would not have any guilty conscious though been cheated. They are the guilty and answerable who have misused my sense of gratitude. All I can do is to determine enough of what I have done and stop doing further.

I am a strong believer in Karma. What I get and what I lose to many extents are not in my hand atleast when these give and take are between me and my near and dear ones/family members.

It is OK if you were been deceived by your family members once. Not OK if you let yourself to be deceived again and again. You should have your own responsibility. As the saying goes - more than the deceiving person a person who let himself/herself to be deceived repeatedly is the culprit.

Perceptions differ from people to people and that's how we differ by our emotional feelings, no matter being realistic or idealistic.

At the end of the day our conscious can let us know where we were right and where we were wrong, if we bother to listen to it!! As well, our understanding, perceptions and attitudes can always lead us to where we are intended.

 

[amala]

I have always thought that gratitude and being grateful and thankful to people who help you especially in times of need is of utpmost importance. Of course having said that, there is a difference between you personally showing your gratitude compared to passing the buck and obligation to your children and expecting them to sacrifice on your behalf.

In my personal experience, there are far too many ingrates around. I have learnt to think ten times before going to someones rescue or helping people out of kindness because they generally tend to drop you like hot potato and start canoodling with their tormentors and you end up with a bad name and lose close friends in the process of helping someone else no less! Thats gratitude for you. I have definitely learnt to be more cynical and shrewd (unfortunately) rather than wade in the quicksand and end up getting pushed in instead.

 

[Raghy]

I have always thought that gratitude and being grateful and thankful to people who help you especially in times of need is of utpmost importance. Of course having said that, there is a difference between you personally showing your gratitude compared to passing the buck and obligation to your children and expecting them to sacrifice on your behalf.

In my personal experience, there are far too many ingrates around. I have learnt to think ten times before going to someones rescue or helping people out of kindness because they generally tend to drop you like hot potato and start canoodling with their tormentors and you end up with a bad name and lose close friends in the process of helping someone else no less! Thats gratitude for you. I have definitely learnt to be more cynical and shrewd (unfortunately) rather than wade in the quicksand and end up getting pushed in instead.

Sowbagyavathy Amala, Greetings.

Yes, gratitude mainly is to be shown towards persons who help you at the time of need. I have a very small list of them and I visit them every time I go to India.

Sad to note your bitter feelings. But that should not stop you from helping others. Not all the persons have the capacity to show gratitude. I had few very bitter instances while I was much younger in India. But that never stopped me from helping others. It is a 'default quality'. You have it. Personally I witnessed it from you. That is not an easy quality to acquire. Hold that with both your hands. A day will come soon when you wouldn't pay even a second glance if anyone is ungrateful to you after getting help from you. You are way too strong to be bothered by any person suffering from 'Stockholm Syndrome'.

Cheers!

 

[Raghy]

Sri. Ravi, Greetings.

I refer to your message in post #8. Very good message. I may differ with one or two minor points, but the message in essence is very good!:thumb:

Cheers!

 

[C RAVI]

Sri. Ravi, Greetings.

I refer to your message in post #8. Very good message. I may differ with one or two minor points, but the message in essence is very good!:thumb:

Cheers!

Thank you for your compliment, Shri Raghy..

 

[kunjuppu]

I have always thought that gratitude and being grateful and thankful to people who help you especially in times of need is of utpmost importance. Of course having said that, there is a difference between you personally showing your gratitude compared to passing the buck and obligation to your children and expecting them to sacrifice on your behalf.

In my personal experience, there are far too many ingrates around. I have learnt to think ten times before going to someones rescue or helping people out of kindness because they generally tend to drop you like hot potato and start canoodling with their tormentors and you end up with a bad name and lose close friends in the process of helping someone else no less! Thats gratitude for you. I have definitely learnt to be more cynical and shrewd (unfortunately) rather than wade in the quicksand and end up getting pushed in instead.

Dear amala,

A post like this, is a seed, that once planted, takes a while to germinate. And flower and bloom. When I read this, I wanted to respond, but could not gather my thoughts to coherently put them in a few sentences.

Something happened this morning at home, which connected me with this thread.

I think, there are occasions, when we go out of our way to help people. To help them a lot. All the way to such an extent, that had it not been for us, they would have been ruined or suffered serious losses. Once these get back on their feet, the last thing they would like to be reminded of, is their recent misfortune. Guess what – who and what is a constant reminder of the same. Yes, you, the very friend who saw her through the worst of times.

When this happens, there starts initially a thin curtain, between the two, often instigated by the victim, and this grows and grows, till a resentment over such a helplessness and need builds up. This can even result in antagonism, loutish behavior or anger.

I think, in such cases, after so serious a giving, it is best, the giver gives the givee a wide berth. Stay away. Avoid and let time take its own course to heal the wounds suffered by the healee. One can and will never find an open expression of gratitude, especially in public. Not with most anyway.

The real consolation is that you have a good feeling that if you ever need any help, you can ask this person without having any misgivings. But don’t be too sure – this might be met with refusal and rudeness. The human mind is a complex mechanism, of which we understand nary an atom.

This happens even among countries. In the 1960s, india suffered a huge shortfall of grains – both rice and wheat. And had no hard currency to pay for purchases abroad. The u.s.a. with its proverbial surplus, shipped india millions of tons of wheat and rice and corn, all paid for in indian rupees – ie the indian government printed paper and deposited it in the u.s. embassy in new delhi for the goods.

This was called PL480 transactions, after the Public Law 480 passed by the u.s. house of representatives. It was meant precisely for such purposes, where a country was unable to pay for food, and in turn could pay for it in their local currency, which the americans can use to buy up services or goods.

The usa with its capitalistic structure, could and did not indulge in governmental buying of a commercial kind, like the ussr of old did. And the amount was so huge, that it was a constant thorn in indo usa relations particularly in Indira gandhi’s time.

madam gandhi was hysterically critical of usa even as ship loads of u.s. grains were unloaded and went straight to hungry stomachs. at that time, i was only reminded of 'biting the hands that feed you'. yechh!!

I forget which u.s. president took the unilateral measure, of I think, burning all the indian worthless paper rupees held in the u.s. embassy – but that eased a lot of tensions, and made india conveniently forget that thanks to usa, we avoided a repeat of the famines of the 1940s and earlier ones, where huge percentage of population was decimated due to hunger.

Gratititude? From india? To usa? For saving millions from starvations? Forget it.

Hope dear amala, this long winded note, somehwhat addresses your thoughts, and definitely does not excuse it. I think gratitude is a quality, which we, atleast if not match that of a dog, atleast follow it to 10%. Why only 10%. I don’t know. Just came to my mind.