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how to save hindus in india and how tamilbrahmins can contribute towards that end

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sudeshwer

Guest
There is no religion higher than the Truth!

If you have ever read anything, please read this from start to finish, adapted from Dr. Peter Hammond's book: Slavery, Terrorism and Islam: The Historical Roots and Contemporary Threat Islam is not a religion, nor is it a cult. In its fullest form, it is a complete, total, 100% system of life. Islam has religious, legal, political, economic, social, and military components. The religious component is a beard for all of the other components.
Islamization begins when there are sufficient Muslims in a country to agitate for their religious privileges.
When politically correct, tolerant, and culturally diverse societies agree to Muslim demands for their religious privileges, some of the other components tend to creep in as well.

Here's how it works:
As long as the Muslim population remains around or under 2% in any given country, they will be for the most part be regarded as a peace-loving minority, and not as a threat to other citizens. This is the case in:
>>>>>>> United States -- Muslim 0.6%
>>>>>>> Australia -- Muslim 1.5%
>>>>>>> Canada -- Muslim 1.9%
>>>>>>> China -- Muslim 1.8%
>>>>>>> Italy -- Muslim 1.5%
>>>>>>> Norway -- Muslim 1.8%


At 2% to 5%, they begin to proselytize from other ethnic minorities and disaffected groups, often with major recruiting from the jails and among street gangs. This is happening in:
>>>>>>> Denmark -- Muslim 2%
>>>>>>> Germany -- Muslim 3.7%
>>>>>>> United Kingdom -- Muslim 2.7%
>>>>>>> Spain -- Muslim 4%
>>>>>>> Thailand -- Muslim 4.6%


From 5% on, they exercise an inordinate influence in proportion to their percentage of the population. For example, they will push for the introduction of halal (clean by Islamic standards) food, thereby securing food preparation jobs for Muslims. They will increase pressure on supermarket chains to feature halal on their shelves -- along with threats for failure to comply. This is occurring in:
>>>>>>> France -- Muslim 8%
>>>>>>> Philippines -- 5%
>>>>>>> Sweden -- Muslim 5%
>>>>>>> Switzerland -- Muslim 4.3%
>>>>>>> The Netherlands -- Muslim 5.5%
>>>>>>> Trinidad & Tobago -- Muslim 5.8%


At this point, they will work to get the ruling government to allow them to rule themselves (within their ghettos) under Sharia, the Islamic Law. The ultimate goal of Islamists is to establish Sharia law over the entire world.

When Muslims approach 10% of the population, they tend to increase lawlessness as a means of complaint about their conditions. In Paris, we are already seeing car-burnings. Any non-Muslim action offends Islam and results in uprisings and threats, such as in Amsterdam, with opposition to Mohammed cartoons and films about Islam. Such tensions are seen daily, particularly in Muslim sections in:
>>>>>>> Guyana -- Muslim 10%
>>>>>>> India -- Muslim 13.4%
>>>>>>> Israel -- Muslim 16%
>>>>>>> Kenya -- Muslim 10%
>>>>>>> Russia -- Muslim 15%


After reaching 20%, nations can expect hair-trigger rioting, jihad militia formations, sporadic killings, and the burnings of Christian churches and Jewish synagogues, such as in:
>>>>>>> Ethiopia -- Muslim 32.8%


At 40%, nations experience widespread massacres, chronic terror attacks, and ongoing militia warfare, such as in:
>>>>>>> Bosnia -- Muslim 40%
>>>>>>> Chad -- Muslim 53.1%
>>>>>>> Lebanon -- Muslim 59.7%


From 60%, nations experience unfettered persecution of non- believers of all other religions (including non-conforming Muslims), sporadic ethnic cleansing (genocide), use of Sharia Law as a weapon, and Jizya, the tax placed on infidels, such as in:
>>>>>>> Albania -- Muslim 70%
>>>>>>> Malaysia -- Muslim 60.4%
>>>>>>> Qatar -- Muslim 77.5%
>>>>>>> Sudan -- Muslim 70%


After 80%, expect daily intimidation and violent jihad, some State-run ethnic cleansing, and even some genocide, as these nations drive out the infidels, and move toward 100% Muslim, such as has been experienced and in some ways is on-going in:
>>>>>>> Bangladesh -- Muslim 83%
>>>>>>> Egypt -- Muslim 90%
>>>>>>> Gaza -- Muslim 98.7%
>>>>>>> Indonesia -- Muslim 86.1%
>>>>>>> Iran -- Muslim 98%
>>>>>>> Iraq -- Muslim 97%
>>>>>>> Jordan -- Muslim 92%
>>>>>>> Morocco -- Muslim 98.7%
>>>>>>> Pakistan -- Muslim 97%
>>>>>>> Palestine -- Muslim 99%
>>>>>>> Syria -- Muslim 90%
>>>>>>> Tajikistan -- Muslim 90%
>>>>>>> Turkey -- Muslim 99.8%
>>>>>>> United Arab Emirates -- Muslim 96%


100% will usher in the peace of 'Dar-es-Salaam' -- the Islamic House of Peace. Here there's supposed to be peace, because everybody is a Muslim, the Madrasses are the only schools, and the Koran is the only word, such as in:
>>>>>>> Afghanistan -- Muslim 100%
>>>>>>> Saudi Arabia -- Muslim 100%
>>>>>>> Somalia -- Muslim 100%
>>>>>>> Yemen -- Muslim 100%


Unfortunately, peace is never achieved, as in these 100% states the most radical Muslims intimidate and spew hatred, and satisfy their blood lust by killing less radical Muslims, for a variety of reasons.
'Before I was nine, I had learned the basic canon of Arab life. It was me against my brother; me and my brother against our father; my family against my cousins and the clan; the clan against the tribe; the tribe against the world, and all of us against the infidel. -- Leon Uris,


Haj'
It is important to understand that in some countries, with well under 100% Muslim populations, such as France, the minority Muslim populations live in ghettos, within which they are 100% Muslim, and within which they live by Sharia Law. The national police do not even enter these ghettos. There are no national courts, nor schools, nor non-Muslim religious facilities. In such situations, Muslims do not integrate into the community at large. The children attend madrasses. They learn only the Koran. To even associate with an infidel is a crime punishable with death. Therefore, in some areas of certain nations, Muslim Imams and
extremists exercise more power than the national average would indicate.
Today's 1.5 billion Muslims make up 22% of the world's population.
But their birth rates dwarf the birth rates of Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, Jews, and all other believers. Muslims will exceed 50% of the world's population by the end of this century.
Well, boys and girls, today we are letting the fox guard the henhouse. The wolves will be herding the sheep!


Was it not "Devout Muslim men" that flew planes into U.S. buildings 8 years ago?

Was it not a Devout Muslim who killed 13 at Fort Hood?

Also: This is very interesting and we all need to read it from start to finish. Maybe this is why our American Muslims are so quiet and not speaking out about any atrocities. Can a good Muslim be a good American? This question was forwarded to a friend who worked in Saudi Arabia for 20 years. The following is his reply:

Theologically - no . . .. Because his allegiance is to Allah, The moon God of Arabia.

Religiously – no… Because no other religion is accepted by His Allah except Islam (Quran, 2:256)(Koran).

Scripturally- no… Because his allegiance is to the five Pillars of Islam and the Quran.

Geographically – no… Because his allegiance is to Mecca, to which he turns in prayer five times a day.

Socially - no… Because his allegiance to Islam forbids him to make friends with Christians or Jews..

Politically - no…Because he must submit to the mullahs (spiritual leaders), who teach annihilation of Israel and destruction of America, the great Satan.

Domestically - no… Because he is instructed to marry four women and beat and scourge his wife when she disobeys him (Quran 4:34)

Intellectually - no… Because he cannot accept the American Constitution since it is based on Biblical principles and he believes the Bible to be corrupt.

Philosophically - no… Because Islam, Muhammad, and the Quran do not allow freedom of religion and expression.. Democracy and Islam cannot co-exist. Every Muslim government is either dictatorial or autocratic.

Spiritually - no… Because when we declare 'one nation under God,' the Christian's God is loving and kind, while Allah is NEVER referred to as Heavenly father, nor is he ever called love in The Quran's 99 excellent names.
Therefore, after much study and deliberation.... Perhaps we should be very suspicious of ALL MUSLIMS in this country. - - - They obviously cannot be both 'good' Muslims and good Americans.

Remember, they will use DECEIT, they will LIE because the Qu'ran tells them to do so in order to destroy us infidels.

Call it what you wish, it's still the truth. You had better believe it. The more who understand this, the better it will be for our country and our future. The religious war is bigger than we know or understand.

Can a Muslim be a good soldier???

Army Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan, opened fire at Ft. Hood and Killed 13. He is a good Muslim !!!

Footnote: The Muslims have said they will destroy us from within.

SO FREEDOM IS NOT FREE.
THE MARINES WANT THIS TO ROLL ALL OVER THE U.S.

 

KRS

Well-known member
Dear Sri sudeshwer Ji,

Similar postings were made and discussed in the past in this same Forum. Please go back and perhaps add to those relevant threads.

Also, your thread topic has nothing to do with your post. If you have any ideas on 'how to save Hindus in India', please post it here. I will await your response and then decide whether to close this thread.

While we frequently discuss other religions, we will all benefit if we post solutions to an issue like this, which by the way is well known to our readers. Thanks.

Regards,
KRS
 
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R. Ramanujan

Guest
Parts of this thread are bit controversial. I would prefer if this thread is closed.
 

KRS

Well-known member
Dear Sri Ramanujan Ji,

Just because a topic is controversial, that does not mean that the related thread should be automatically closed. In fact we welcome controversial topics as long as they abide by the Forum rules, because they tend to generate much discussions and related learning.

Let us await Sri Sudeeshwar Ji's response. He still may enlighten with a solution that is within the context of humanity and decency, to resolve the issues he has highlighted.

Regards,
KRS
 

B.Krishnamurthy

Active member
Recently I saw a family in a NEW Delhi hospital ,A NURSE ,CHRISTIAN ,also mother of two sons and one daughter.I know that nurse for the past 20 years and knew that she is a Christian,but never knew her personal life.This time I came to know that she(nurse) married a HINDU ,A punjabi through love marriage.Her husband and children were following "HINDU' form of life while she continued to be a christian.Theywere leading a happy life.When the husband expired the other close relatives of the husband did not give proper share of the property and the family is in distress now.The children have not shaped well
and the nurse(fag end of her service) a christian is struggling and supporting her HINDU children. In the meantime the girl had love affair with a Hindu boy,married him and got two kids.The girl is not educated and her husband is presently out of job.
I saw with my own eyes a mother(Christian) trying to help her daughter(married Hindu girl) and requesting my friend to get a job for hermarried daughter..Here religion does not have any role. I could see only a mother's love to her child.
I have posted in another thread about a news item which appeared in 'DINAMALAR' Newspaper about "CHANDAN" Village in AGRA DISTRICT in INDIA where 50% of population became 'Muslims' some 700 years before and remaining 50% are
HINDUS.Perfect peace prevails among the people of the village and stillinter religious marriages take place among hindus and Muslims and there is no compulsion of changing faith after marriage.
In my view if inter religious marriages take place without change of faith of either party after marriage, persons can live peacefully as a FAMILY .
I am not very sure whether this can be achieved as one party may inflence or compel the other partner to change their faith.
 
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kahanam

Active member
Militancy and violence ultimately do not achieve anything but suffering in the end. The Government of the day should be really secular, allow all communities to progress but must ruthlessly exterminate terrorism. Only that will save any community from difficulties.
 
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R. Ramanujan

Guest
In my view if inter religious marriages take place without change of faith of either party after marriage, persons can live peacefully as a FAMILY .
I am not very sure whether this can be achieved as one party may inflence or compel the other partner to change their faith.

This is especially true sir in case of Muslim where they compel either hindu boy/girl to change faith before marriage.
But sir mostly this religious conversion for marriage happens in not so rich families.
One more thing relevant in this context is that many in India feel like Ambedker did not so long back that Hinduism, Jainism, Sikhism and Buddhism are Indian religions and rest came from foreign lands. Plus the rest indulge in forceful conversions and missionary activities.
One more thing EGYPT is muslim majority nation but still its not islamic republic.
If you look at bollywood then you will find a lot of these cases where couples haven't changed religions for the sake of getting married.
Here is the story of Bollywood's first couple as the people say it.
Shahrukh Khan & Gauri - The Real Love Story | Just on Bollywood...
 
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sideshow - The NB

Guest
Blog posted by sudeshwer and title are not matching. Evnthough the concepts of Islam are unhelpful to democractic causes, discussing Islam is irrelevant to the topic.

I googled something and landed in this site. Very useful site for information on hinduism and i decided to join even though i am a NB.

Now coming back to the title. The threat to Hinduism are primarily from two sources one is external i.e religious conversions, but history is a proof that the foriegn influences have not worked well in India and religiouis landscape of India remains largely a "Hindustan".

But serious threat is posed by internal frictions. Every religion has extreme and moderate view points. luckily most of the Hindus are moderate. However we are cursed by other frictions like caste / regional / racial bias. Every one is to blame for that. TBs isoloate themselves from the society and refuse to integrate with rest of society. This has done more harm to them by way of political isolation becase politicians could see an opportunity and quickly explioted the divide with in the society. This phenomenon has given raise to a society where TBs feel they dont belong to this society and rest of the society feels that they dont belong to hindusim becasue the guardians of hindusim i.e "TB" are from differnent race. THIS IS THE BIGGEST THREAT TO HINDUISM

Anti brahmin and "nathiga" concepts are dead long time back as vote getters. Now the new India is more worried about the growth, lifestyle and prosperity. But we need to leverage this change in mindset of the society and burry our differences else the external threat (religious conversions) will exploit the divisions.

Decline of hindusism is not good both for TBs and NBs. It is our ancient culture and history we need to protect it. Economic growth and prosperity has offered us a golder chance burry our difference and move on. So the message for NBs is that don't push the TBs out of TN that only adds to the brain drain. The message for TBs is that don't whine when your wards marry from other caste. Take it as new arrival and teach and overwhelm them with your culture and compassion so that they will add to the support base of your community.
 

Raghy

Well-known member
I agree with few factors pointed by 'The NB' (I prefer a name, if you don't mind, please. Thanks). Hinduism, although evolved all these years, may face stiff tests in the future. It is high time Hindus mingled amoung themselves beyond the caste differences. Our heritage develpoed few very good qualities along with some horrible practices. Picking up the good things in Hinduism is like eating cactus ( சப்பாத்தி கள்ளி) fruit. It is very tasty. But to get that, one has to avoid somuch thorn in the surroundings, on the plant and inside the fruit too! The taste was worth all the troubles.

Cheers!
 
R

R. Ramanujan

Guest
Reply

Blog posted by sudeshwer and title are not matching. Evnthough the concepts of Islam are unhelpful to democractic causes, discussing Islam is irrelevant to the topic.

I agree 100 percent.

Very useful site for information on hinduism and i decided to join even though i am a NB.

Membership is open to one and all. No discrimination whatsoever.

The threat to Hinduism are primarily from two sources one is external i.e religious conversions, but history is a proof that the foriegn influences have not worked well in India and religiouis landscape of India remains largely a "Hindustan".

Frnd pakistan, Afghanisthan and Bangladesh were also part of Hindustan. They succeeded in getting them islamic. Even in Northern Areas footprints of Islam are very strong. Thats why language spoken is Hindustani not Pure hindi. Whereas in South Missionaries succeeded. Now Christians are 20 percent in South.

But serious threat is posed by internal frictions. Every religion has extreme and moderate view points. luckily most of the Hindus are moderate. However we are cursed by other frictions like caste / regional / racial bias. Every one is to blame for that. TBs isoloate themselves from the society and refuse to integrate with rest of society. This has done more harm to them by way of political isolation becase politicians could see an opportunity and quickly explioted the divide with in the society. This phenomenon has given raise to a society where TBs feel they dont belong to this society and rest of the society feels that they dont belong to hindusim becasue the guardians of hindusim i.e "TB" are from differnent race. THIS IS THE BIGGEST THREAT TO HINDUISM

you forgot color bias, ethnicity bias(language bias), sub caste bias. Anyways I strongly feel that there needs to be a reconciliation not just among various Brahmin sects within India but also among hindus. This would help in bridging the trust deficit and creating a better understanding of each others traditions. Mutual respect is the key word.

Anti brahmin and "nathiga" concepts are dead long time back as vote getters. Now the new India is more worried about the growth, lifestyle and prosperity. But we need to leverage this change in mindset of the society and burry our differences else the external threat (religious conversions) will exploit the divisions.

I strongly feel that there is underlying hatred towards brahmins spread by DMK for their petty interests. Old Britishers rule Divide and rule. But DMK will never say this in open as there is free and vibrant media, Courts and Civil society. I have interacted with many NB(if I may say so) they openly said AIADMK is brahmin party. We will vote them out. This mindset has to be changed if there be tranquility in future. Society can only prosper when people trust each other and everyone thinks alike. Differences has to be reduced AFAP atleast in the way one thinks. The outsiders have been exploiting this very weakness to their advantage.


Decline of hindusism is not good both for TBs and NBs. It is our ancient culture and history we need to protect it. Economic growth and prosperity has offered us a golder chance burry our difference and move on. So the message for NBs is that don't push the TBs out of TN that only adds to the brain drain. The message for TBs is that don't whine when your wards marry from other caste. Take it as new arrival and teach and overwhelm them with your culture and compassion so that they will add to the support base of your community.

Well said. HINDUISM VAZHGA.
 
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sudeshwer

Guest
Dear Mr. KRS,
thanks for your prompt response. On 'thread topic' since the subject is very much touchy, I made it a 'round-about-way'. yes I agree 'solution' is well known. I spend more time in US spending 3/4 months every year in Delhi where I live for the last 50 years. I have friends in various countries not only hindus. everyone is worked out on this subject. the unfortunate part is that the total world muslim population is approx. 1.5 billion whereas in India alone hindus are 80% out of 1.2 billion; yet, the threat of muslim domination confronts us. here in US and through my own sources in Germany, in various forums, this subject is discussed and delebrated. I admit I have no solution but a discussion will certainly, you will agree, take us all somewhere so that 'containment' could be started.
K Srinivasan(Sudeshwer)
 

Iyyarooraan

Well-known member
Yes, the subject has been discussed over and over all over. To the say the least on the story we can safely say that the worst has not been said on the militant faith. But as somebody else has said here the threat is not from the most frightened and majority religion of the world. It is our internal bickerings and intolerance exposed on one pretext or the other which opens the gateway. Why can not we maintain our individuality and identity within our home or family and open up our arms to embrace all our own people? Alongside we should also discourage any non-Indian like demonstrations in family, society, business, entertainment and publicity world including politics.
 
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sudeshwer

Guest
I have already posted my comments on KRS response to my original posting. If the site feels that this topic is offensive, well, I am in for closing it. but I must insist this topic is relevent and should generate a good debate
 

Iyyarooraan

Well-known member
What about conversions of convenience. Many tinsel personalities including the South's, get converted to enjoy polygamy. In the beginning Muslims were asked to marry war-widows out of compassion. Is it valid today? People should ponder. Moreover, the practice continued till today has perhaps contributed to a mis-match in male-female ratio which is being 1000:842 or worse. Every community suffers by the phenomenon. Govt has laws to prevent environment and ecological imbalances; they should come out with suitable law to preserve male-female ratio in Hindus.
 

Nara

Well-known member
Shri Iyyarooraan, is this in anyway connected to the thesis Shri sudeshwer seems to be advocating, which is, and I am paraphrasing, the Muslims are out to destroy us all, either from within or without. In what way polygamy or male/female ratio supports or refutes this thesis? It is alright if it does not, I am never a stickler for topic purity of threads, but was just wondering. In any case, I give below some comments.

What about conversions of convenience. Many tinsel personalities including the South's, get converted to enjoy polygamy. (emphasis mine)
Is this what polygamy is, something to be enjoyed? Would that not make women an object of enjoyment? I am sure you don't really believe that, and yet you say such preposterous things. Why? IMO, it is because (i) we are conditioned by the cultural environment in which we grow up and live, and (ii) we never stop and think about these things.

We fear Muslims, when in fact we have to fear our blindness to our own prejudices.

In the beginning Muslims were asked to marry war-widows out of compassion. Is it valid today? People should ponder. Moreover, the practice continued till today has perhaps contributed to a mis-match in male-female ratio which is being 1000:842 or worse.
Another point to ponder?! But am not sure what the point is that I am to ponder about. Is it your contention that the reason for lopsided male/female ratio is Muslims marrying war-widows, perhaps in polygamous way? I don't see an apparent cause and effect here, what am I missing?

Every community suffers by the phenomenon. Govt has laws to prevent environment and ecological imbalances; they should come out with suitable law to preserve male-female ratio in Hindus.
Well, what a world we will be living in if only passing laws can solve all our problems!!

Cheers!
 

sangom

Well-known member
In my view unless hindus unite as one single group and work unitedly, it will be difficult to face the threat of a Pan-Islamic onslaught here which is for real, only thing not sure is the timing. Perhaps, for the Indian Government it will be better to ensure peace and support from China's side in order to concentrate its efforts to stem the threat of Islamic terrorism. Unfortunately our political leaders seem to have no botheration about these things; they just want to make money, that's all.
 

kunjuppu

Well-known member
In my view unless hindus unite as one single group and work unitedly, it will be difficult to face the threat of a Pan-Islamic onslaught here which is for real, only thing not sure is the timing. Perhaps, for the Indian Government it will be better to ensure peace and support from China's side in order to concentrate its efforts to stem the threat of Islamic terrorism. Unfortunately our political leaders seem to have no botheration about these things; they just want to make money, that's all.

angom,

i agree with you re hindu unity. maybe we should start just with tamil nadu and that too on a pacific grass roots level without perception of threatening any community.

it should start with brahmins discarding caste, embracing all the other groups with special attention to the dalits. otherwise, there is no chance of hindu unity.

hindu unity as espoused by hindutvas or RSS, is an empty boast, which not only scares away the other castes, but folks like me of brahmin heritage, find a hidden agenda there re usurpation of brahminism through violence, which will ultimately self destruct india.

just my two bits worth. hope you don't mind.

i am with you re us uniting, but the end should not justify the means. :)
 

sangom

Well-known member
angom,

i agree with you re hindu unity. maybe we should start just with tamil nadu and that too on a pacific grass roots level without perception of threatening any community.

it should start with brahmins discarding caste, embracing all the other groups with special attention to the dalits. otherwise, there is no chance of hindu unity.

hindu unity as espoused by hindutvas or RSS, is an empty boast, which not only scares away the other castes, but folks like me of brahmin heritage, find a hidden agenda there re usurpation of brahminism through violence, which will ultimately self destruct india.

just my two bits worth. hope you don't mind.

i am with you re us uniting, but the end should not justify the means. :)

Shri Kunjuppu,

In my view the most difficult problem will be the implementation of the suggestion that "it should start with brahmins discarding caste, embracing all the other groups with special attention to the dalits. otherwise, there is no chance of hindu unity." Can you kindly give an outline of how this could be implemented at the grassroots level?

Secondly, even if some plan of action is begun, or implemented, do you think the brahmins will be able to convince the non-brahmins (I include all the rest, including the dalits, under the hindu fold here) that what we are doing is with altruistic intentions, and not for our descendants cornering the reservation benefits in an indirect way? As you know millennia of hindu history has deeply embedded more of distrust than of respect & reverence, of brahmins, in the minds of other castes.

RSS/BJP are unable to carry the other constituents of hindus with them because of this distrust. But I am also not sure of their real agenda.
 
S

SwamiTaBra

Guest
Shri Kunjuppu,

In my view the most difficult problem will be the implementation of the suggestion that "it should start with brahmins discarding caste, embracing all the other groups with special attention to the dalits. otherwise, there is no chance of hindu unity." Can you kindly give an outline of how this could be implemented at the grassroots level?

Secondly, even if some plan of action is begun, or implemented, do you think the brahmins will be able to convince the non-brahmins (I include all the rest, including the dalits, under the hindu fold here) that what we are doing is with altruistic intentions, and not for our descendants cornering the reservation benefits in an indirect way? As you know millennia of hindu history has deeply embedded more of distrust than of respect & reverence, of brahmins, in the minds of other castes.

RSS/BJP are unable to carry the other constituents of hindus with them because of this distrust. But I am also not sure of their real agenda.

Even as I am aware that we have moved too far into the modern times seeking livelihood through secular employments, it will still be worth making an calibrated attempt to wean away brahmins from that groove and get back to their early calling i.e vedic preservation and other allied sacerdotal duties.

Once the rest of Hindu community is convinced that brahmins by voluntarily vacating the spaces in the secular domain and are not out to corner the material wealth, the trust lost would gradually build. But we must be cautious not to repeat the mistakes of the past, that "unbridgeable gulf", as Sri Aurobindo put it.


With regards,
Swami
 

Brahmanyan

Well-known member
How to save Hindus inIindia and how Tamil brahmins can contribute towards that end.

I agree 100 percent.

Membership is open to one and all. No discrimination whatsoever.

Frnd pakistan, Afghanisthan and Bangladesh were also part of Hindustan. They succeeded in getting them islamic. Even in Northern Areas footprints of Islam are very strong. That is why language spoken is Hindustani not Pure hindi. Whereas in South Missionaries succeeded. Now Christians are 20 percent in South.

you forgot color bias, ethnicity bias(language bias), sub caste bias. Anyways I strongly feel that there needs to be a reconciliation not just among various Brahmin sects within India but also among hindus. This would help in bridging the trust deficit and creating a better understanding of each others traditions. Mutual respect is the key word.

I strongly feel that there is underlying hatred towards brahmins spread by DMK for their petty interests. Old Britishers rule Divide and rule. But DMK will never say this in open as there is free and vibrant media, Courts and Civil society. I have interacted with many NB(if I may say so) they openly said AIADMK is brahmin party. We will vote them out. This mindset has to be changed if there be tranquility in future. Society can only prosper when people trust each other and everyone thinks alike. Differences has to be reduced AFAP atleast in the way one thinks. The outsiders have been exploiting this very weakness to their advantage.
Well said. HINDUISM VAZHGA.

Dear Sri Ramanujan,

I read your posts with interest since you speak the language of present generation of young Brahmins.

Well, we must accept the fact that History cannot be changed, we can only learn lessons from our past to avoid the mistakes. In olden days, religious conversion was simple and quick, when the ruler changed his religion, the people followed him. That is how Islam gained foothold in many Middle eastern countries and in South eastern Countries. Very few people change religion for the sake of spiritual advancement. There is no systematic proselytization by priests in Islam.

You have made a valid point in your post on reasons for conversion to other religions. I would like to change the word used by you "bias" to "discrimination". Brahmins are not the only reason for this. The entire (Hindu) Society should be blamed for the malady. When you analyze the Caste wise conversion from Hindus to Christianity, you will notice the percentage of people who were enjoying social respect (high caste) will be the least, similarly the highest per cent will be from the depressed class, Dalits and Tribals. We should ask ourselves the question "Why it is so?"

Self respect is an unique quality that nature has endowed to human beings. Which no other living species posses. When some people are denied to enjoy this basic quality, due to their birth, naturally they search for an opening to escape from that society. The Christian Missionaries offer this respect to them. The Church protects and guides them in many other ways to uplift their life. They give good education for the children of the Converts. Shelter for the destitute. Medical benefits, de-addiction programs to release them from drinking, financial help at the time of need. The Church takes care of the welfare of their flocks in many other ways also. This is one of the encouraging factor for conversion. Churches follow many of the Hindu religious rituals now a days , like using saffron dress during religious fasting, tonsuring (Mundan) vow, flag hoisting in the Church festivals etc..

This is an important subject that should be discussed without emotional interference. Personally I do not find any thing that Tamil Brahmins could do to stop this trend of conversion to other religions. It is the responsibility of the Hindu Society.

Best Wishes,
Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.
 
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R. Ramanujan

Guest
reply

Dear Sri Ramanujan,

I read your posts with interest since you speak the language of present generation of young Brahmins.

Well, we must accept the fact that History cannot be changed, we can only learn lessons from our past to avoid the mistakes. In olden days, religious conversion was simple and quick, when the ruler changed his religion, the people followed him. That is how Islam gained foothold in many Middle eastern countries and in South eastern Countries. Very few people change religion for the sake of spiritual advancement. There is no systematic proselytization by priests in Islam.

You have made a valid point in your post on reasons for conversion to other religions. I would like to change the word used by you "bias" to "discrimination". Brahmins are not the only reason for this. The entire (Hindu) Society should be blamed for the malady. When you analyze the Caste wise conversion from Hindus to Christianity, you will notice the percentage of people who were enjoying social respect (high caste) will be the least, similarly the highest per cent will be from the depressed class, Dalits and Tribals. We should ask ourselves the question "Why it is so?"

Self respect is an unique quality that nature has endowed to human beings. Which no other living species posses. When some people are denied to enjoy this basic quality, due to their birth, naturally they search for an opening to escape from that society. The Christian Missionaries offer this respect to them. The Church protects and guides them in many other ways to uplift their life. They give good education for the children of the Converts. Shelter for the destitute. Medical benefits, de-addiction programs to release them from drinking, financial help at the time of need. The Church takes care of the welfare of their flocks in many other ways also. This is one of the encouraging factor for conversion. Churches follow many of the Hindu religious rituals now a days , like using saffron dress during religious fasting, tonsuring (Mundan) vow, flag hoisting in the Church festivals etc..

This is an important subject that should be discussed without emotional interference. Personally I do not find any thing that Tamil Brahmins could do to stop this trend of conversion to other religions. It is the responsibility of the Hindu Society.

Best Wishes,
Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.

Sir I totally agree with you on that. We can't change the clock back. But I'm a moderate not extremist. I believe Pakistan and Bangladesh were created by INC and not Jinnah. Jinnah wanted a unified India. His formula for equal participation for muslims were rejected by INC. He is demonized in India. Actually he made incredible contribution in Indian Independence.
Personally I feel there is no problem with separate state for muslims in south asia as long they don't threaten others and believe in peaceful coexistence and protect minority interest. Pakistan and Bangladesh have done nothing regarding that. That's why India feels outraged.

Sir I will reply to your other points tomorrow. Feeling tired today.
 

Iyyarooraan

Well-known member
Shri Iyyarooraan, is this in anyway connected to the thesis Shri sudeshwer seems to be advocating, which is, and I am paraphrasing, the Muslims are out to destroy us all, either from within or without. In what way polygamy or male/female ratio supports or refutes this thesis? It is alright if it does not, I am never a stickler for topic purity of threads, but was just wondering. In any case, I give below some comments.

Lot of our own girls are crossing over here in spite of the fact we treat them better. It is a method to tear the fabric our society. Of course it may not always be the Muslims fault. But Hindus are losers. At the same time, it may not even be a trickle from the other side, girls crossing over this side though we do not encourage such things in ordinary family.

Is this what polygamy is, something to be enjoyed? Would that not make women an object of enjoyment? I am sure you don't really believe that, and yet you say such preposterous things. Why? IMO, it is because (i) we are conditioned by the cultural environment in which we grow up and live, and (ii) we never stop and think about these things.
[FONT=&quot]In spite of all talks, women here or perhaps every where, are objects of enjoyment. Money or wealth also lures them[/FONT][FONT=&quot]. Of course, there are a very few liberated souls. According to our own Hindu Laws polygamy is crime.

[/FONT]We fear Muslims, when in fact we have to fear our blindness to our own prejudices.

Yes,we can educate and correct ourselves.

Another point to ponder?! But am not sure what the point is that I am to ponder about. Is it your contention that the reason for lopsided male/female ratio is Muslims marrying war-widows, perhaps in polygamous way? I don't see an apparent cause and effect here, what am I missing?

In the Holy War lot of Muslim fighters lost their lives rendering equal number of widows and out of compassion for the widows, Muslims were asked to give life to them. In today’s population condition, if this practice is withdrawn, will it not help? It is a far cry for uniform civil law, but effects of consequence can be appreciated. I have not said it is the sole cause for the mis-match effect. But mite contributes to the might.

Well, what a world we will be living in if only passing laws can solve all our problems!!
You are right saying passing laws cannot solve the problem. Anti-conversion law is in the statute book. But laws can be deterrent.
My replies are in italics. Regards
 
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R. Ramanujan

Guest
I read your posts with interest since you speak the language of present generation of young Brahmins.

Thanks for the compliment sir. Actually sir frankly I have seen many fellow brahmins belonging to my age group. One bad quality they have is arrogance, timiru and ego that too unnecessary. I also believe that some fellow brahmins have become think capitalism i.e money making is the only purpose of life and that human sentiments doesn't matter. We earn to live and live to earn. Infact when I was living in Srirangam I got the room only after they ensured that I was a Brahmin. It was a sandu and that sandu was brahmin dominated while the rest of area was full of NB's(if I may use the word). So sir I had lots of NB frnds but one thing I observed was that Brahmin(whether women, men, boys, girls) rarely interacted with the NB(If I may use the word) counterparts and vica versa. I found it very strange. P2P contact must be encouraged so that we can be more tolerant of the respective beliefs and traditions in this 21st century. Just can't live in a closet.

Well, we must accept the fact that History cannot be changed, we can only learn lessons from our past to avoid the mistakes. In olden days, religious conversion was simple and quick, when the ruler changed his religion, the people followed him. That is how Islam gained foothold in many Middle eastern countries and in South eastern Countries. Very few people change religion for the sake of spiritual advancement. There is no systematic proselytization by priests in Islam
Thats a valid point sir. Earlier times rulers were suspicious of minorities and intolerant of their beliefs. One exception was Akbar and Kings of Gujarat who allowed parsis. Infact parsis when came to sanjan in Gujarat the gujarat king sent a bowl of milk to them saying the place is full. But the paarsi priest cleverly mixed sugar in it and sent back to king implying parsis will mix with the society.
But sir I think in middle some people in India did convert to Buddhism for spiritual advancement but even then Asoka excepted buddhism as state religion. But he didn't impose religion even then.
I agree partially that no systematic proselytization by priests in Islam but some priests modify Islam to suit their personal gains esp in Islamic countries and indulge in abducting daughters of other faiths and marrying them off after forceful conversions.

You have made a valid point in your post on reasons for conversion to other religions. I would like to change the word used by you "bias" to "discrimination". Brahmins are not the only reason for this. The entire (Hindu) Society should be blamed for the malady. When you analyze the Caste wise conversion from Hindus to Christianity, you will notice the percentage of people who were enjoying social respect (high caste) will be the least, similarly the highest per cent will be from the depressed class, Dalits and Tribals. We should ask ourselves the question "Why it is so?"
Sir Thats a point mostly dalits, under priviledged lots convert to christianity and islam. But even there sometimes they are not treated with dignity. Even in islamic society there are divisions i.e shia, sunni, shiekh, ahmediya.
There is also color discrimination. Sir If you notice in Pakistan those who minorities who were spared from being forcefully converted were hindu dalits in Sindh. While some upper caste minorities are also there.
Sir I feel to tell one thing is here. I noticed one thing in Srirangam. The tendency to self depreciate oneself which is transferred from Generation to generations(its more so in dalits). Surely you would have noticed this sir. And some brahmins like this. Lack of secular education is the main reason behind this thing. Even I felt this thing in Srirangam but I told them I come from Delhi. We are all equal.
One gets from this vicious circle only after converting to other faith but there he might get economically well off not sure about acceptability from those who are already there.

Self respect is an unique quality that nature has endowed to human beings. Which no other living species posses. When some people are denied to enjoy this basic quality, due to their birth, naturally they search for an opening to escape from that society. The Christian Missionaries offer this respect to them. The Church protects and guides them in many other ways to uplift their life. They give good education for the children of the Converts. Shelter for the destitute. Medical benefits, de-addiction programs to release them from drinking, financial help at the time of need. The Church takes care of the welfare of their flocks in many other ways also. This is one of the encouraging factor for conversion. Churches follow many of the Hindu religious rituals now a days , like using saffron dress during religious fasting, tonsuring (Mundan) vow, flag hoisting in the Church festivals etc..
This is an important subject that should be discussed without emotional interference. Personally I do not find any thing that Tamil Brahmins could do to stop this trend of conversion to other religions. It is the responsibility of the Hindu Society.

One more thing I would like to add here sir. I personally feel that majority of fellow brahmins are not that much concerned about dalits. So they feel left out then get converted. The missionaries not only use this. They also deliberately distribute pamplets of vedas misquoting the verses. They also say that brahmins only are the sole representative of hindus. They(dalits) are unwanted.
The purpose of missionaries is only to secure the maximum land and make a church every 5 km in every part of World.
The missionaries also understood one thing that language is important part of every individual. So they compromised on English only esp in Southern India.
Color discrimination is even there in US. Even when Obama was campaigning you must have seen sir how much the fair skinned christians were saying,"we are not sure about him, I don't know". They doubt the dark skinned lots. They live in separate colonies and groupism is rampant there also.

Sir all religions have common points. Christians also go to piligrimage to israel like hindus go to 4 dhams. But sir those mundan point that you have mentioned its only in South India.
I personally feel that every brahmin should understand this fact--the more we isolate the dalits, the more we do disservice to the hinduism.
We should change according to times.
One more thing I got to say that I have nothing against Christianity. I find striking similarity among Ram and Jesus. I have very good christian friends. They are so hospitable. I only want to say that dalits should convert not out of dwesh towards brahmins or hinduism. Even after they convert the brotherhood should be uneffected. Both Brahmins, dalits and christian org's should act responsibly in this regard.
 
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