"Hariyum Haranum Onnu, Ariyaathu Vaayilai Mannu..."

[Alamelu]

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"Hariyum Haranum Onnu, Ariyaathu Vaayilai Mannu..."

Why so many differences then?

We have gone through hard times as a family and we all have learnt a lot out of those bitter experiences. Currently she has found her match-- in her words, a perfect match to start a new life and family. We are Iyengaars and he is an Iyer. We are getting opposed.

Is this wrong? Should this not take place? Will our daughter suffer? What are the REAL differences? What are the REAL problems? Or is it merely people's assumptions? Is it really the society we have to fear?

We are confused. Any comments will be welcome.

P. S. Thank you to the creators of this forum! It's a great place to be!

 

[pannvalan]

I am not finding fault with Iyengars. Iyengars worship only Narayana and all other names and forms are worthless and they mean nothing. Some of them even despise other names and forms. But, Iyers worship all deities including Narayana and Lakshmi.

We must realize that differentiating between various names and forms are the mind's work and it has nothing to do with reality. God is everything and everything is God. No discrimination is necessary, by calling one thing as superior and another as inferior.

Let us accept that God is supreme and we shall not dictate to Him as to what name or form He must assume. We are not that great. But, this happens due to our ignorance and sometimes, narrow-mindedness too.

 

[Raghy]

Sow.Ala(r)melu,

Greetings. your message seems like a personal matter. In my opinion, it may be quite inappropriate to discuss your personal matters here. If your daughter and the match found by her are serious enough, they would find their own way for this to happen. I wish them both all the best.

I don't think this forum may be keen to discuss the differences between iyer and Iyengar now. there are old threads addressing such informations. Kindly take the time to go through them.

Cheers!

 

[sangom]

"Hariyum Haranum Onnu, Ariyaathu Vaayilai Mannu..."

Why so many differences then?

We have gone through hard times as a family and we all have learnt a lot out of those bitter experiences. Currently she has found her match-- in her words, a perfect match to start a new life and family. We are Iyengaars and he is an Iyer. We are getting opposed.

Is this wrong? Should this not take place? Will our daughter suffer? What are the REAL differences? What are the REAL problems? Or is it merely people's assumptions? Is it really the society we have to fear?

We are confused. Any comments will be welcome.

P. S. Thank you to the creators of this forum! It's a great place to be!

Sow. Alamelu,

Since that "she" in your message looks enigmatic, I am addressing you as above. Pl. correct me if it is wrong.

There have been quite a few Iyer-Iyengar marriages and the distance between the two is coming down, IMO. Even the Sree Venkateswara Bhakti Channel carries items on smarta temples and deities. Since the brahmin world is now rediscovering the futility of sectarianism, I feel there is no problem in any Iyer-Iyengar marriage, unless there is objection from the families which may haunt the couple for long and spoil their peace of mind.

 

[pannvalan]

In Andhra Pradesh, where Tirupathi Perumal decided to settle down, upon partition of states on linguistic basis, has no hard division between Smarthas and Vaishnavas, except in very few pockets. So, it is natural for the SVBC to broadcast the festivals celebrated in shiva temples too. Going a step further, TTD has helped so many Saiva temples in Tamilnadu and elsewhere for their Kumbabishekam, repairs and maintenance.

On Tirumala hills, at the veda patashala run by TTD, more smartha vidyarthis are there than their vaishnava counterparts.

Let us shed this artificial division between smarthas and vaishnavas and work for the unity of brahmin community as a whole.

We must move ahead, without unnecessarily bothering ourselves about the medieval practices that were/are discriminatory in nature.

 

[sangom]

In Andhra Pradesh, where Tirupathi Perumal decided to settle down, upon partition of states on linguistic basis, has no hard division between Smarthas and Vaishnavas, except in very few pockets. So, it is natural for the SVBC to broadcast the festivals celebrated in shiva temples too. Going a step further, TTD has helped so many Saiva temples in Tamilnadu and elsewhere for their Kumbabishekam, repairs and maintenance.

On Tirumala hills, at the veda patashala run by TTD, more smartha vidyarthis are there than their vaishnava counterparts.

Let us shed this artificial division between smarthas and vaishnavas and work for the unity of brahmin community as a whole.

We must move ahead, without unnecessarily bothering ourselves about the medieval practices that were/are discriminatory in nature.

Thank you Shri Pannvalan, for the info. I was not aware of these. BTB, is the management of TTD also broadbased?

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

கையிலே வெண்ணையை வைத்துக்கொண்டு


வையகத்தில் நெய்யுக்கு அலைவார்களாம்!:embarassed:


கேள்வியிலேயே பதிலை வைத்துக்கொண்டு


வெளியில் நீங்கள் அதனைத் தேடலாகுமா? :mmph:


ஹரியும் ஹரனும் ஒன்றேதான்; ஐயம் வேண்டாம்!
அறியாமல் மனத்தை குழப்பிக் கொள்ளவேண்டாம்!:whoo:

 

[Vyomanathan]

Lord Ayyappa 's other name is Hariharasuthan(son of Siva & Vishnu).while His father Panthalm king is from Saivite sect , His mother belongs to Vaishanvite sect.
Let us follow Him .

 

[pannvalan]

Somehow, this story of Ayyappa's birth is grossly misunderstood. The confluence of two powers - maintenance and destruction - is to be understood figuratively.

We take only superficial meanings from many a thing. This Ayyappa concept or cult is one among them.

 

[tn.srinivasan]

When we see a dog, we know it is a dog, and know its qualities. Same way a fox, tiger, lion , elephant, don/monkies
but can we recognize a man or woman by their look? We cannot undertstand the other animal qualities they will be having. Humane is more important than human. Once a human is recognized as a human hariyum haranum onnu. Congratulations

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

It is really strange the you have not seen people with a lot of facial

resemblances to a bird, a pig, a monkey, a lion, a camel, a cow and last but

not least a buffalo.

I have seen them all but I have not known them well enough to discover

whether or not their facial features reflected the presence of similar

characteristics in their personalities.anda:

 

[tn.srinivasan]

Yourreligionisnotimportant.pps

 

[srikrish85]

Ekam Sat, vipra bahudaah vadanti.

"Truth is one, wise tell it in many ways" --Rig Veda Sloka 1

I'm an Iyengar, I do not care about caste, kila gothra, etc. You see.. Hari, Har are all names of God and should be remembered as such.

Hari ananth Hari Katha Anantha,
Kahi Sunahi bahuvidhi sab santha
"Lord is infinite and so are his sports (stories)
All speak and listen (to His Story) in many different ways"

So there is nothing wrong in Iyer-Iyengar-Rayar-Chozhiar,etc marriages. (Even I encourage IC marriages).

Wahegurjee ka khalsa
Wahegurjee ki fateh

 

[somanathan Iyer]

We should feel more than happy if the bride and groom happens to have a brahmin tag irrespective of other internal differences such as Iyers, Iyengars, Raos, and Misras etc., . Any way if they are interested in each other no external controls will prevent them from getting married.

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

Soon a time may come when we all will very feel happy that a man marries a

woman and not another man! Such is the turn of events now! :mad2:

 

[Nara]

Soon a time may come when we all will very feel happy that a man marries a woman and not another man! Such is the turn of events now!

Marriage is a union of two lives, with a loving commitment to share the joys and sorrows a full life entails. The sooner the day comes when such coming together of two lives is celebrated with joy irrespective of the gender of the two, the happier the society will be.

Cheers!

 

[tbs]

hi
i think prof Nara talking just enacted law regarding....DONT ASK DONT TELL.....CARRY ON NARA SIR....

regards
tbs

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

Marriage is a union of two loving hearts and bodies! O.K.

But why only humans go against the Laws Of Nature?

We never come across any two animals/ birds/ reptiles of the same sex living

together as husband and wife!

Only two men/ women do it and now obviously with the blessings of others!!

Mr. Sangom had asked a beautiful question in one of his replies, in a thread.

"Why can't the lovers decide to live on as friends without getting into marital

relationship?"

He was talking about friends of the opposite sex.

Now what we are talking is about the friends of the same sex!

Why can't the 'thick friends' decide to live as friends and why DO they decide to go

against nature, creating new, unheard of, untreatable diseases in that process?:doh:

 

[Nara]

......We never come across any two animals/ birds/ reptiles of the same sex living together as husband and wife! Only two men/ women do it and now obviously with the blessings of others!!

Mrs. VR, the "we" in the above encompasses only those who are unaware. Homosexual behavior is quite common among many animal species. If you wish to familiarize yourself with such behavior in the animal kingdom, please start with this Wiki article.

Mr. Sangom had asked a beautiful question in one of his replies, in a thread.

"Why can't the lovers decide to live on as friends without getting into marital relationship?"

He was talking about friends of the opposite sex.

Now what we are talking is about the friends of the same sex!

Some do I suppose, live as friends. But, is it any of our business what the two loving individuals want to do in their privacy? Your first comment on this subject was about marriage, not sex. Sex and reproduction is an essential part of marriage, but it is not the only significant part of it. If that was so, then past child production age the marriage must become null and void.

Also, there are couples who consciously choose not to have children. There are many who are not able to get pregnant. Their marriages are not any less than those who are prolific in child production. Then there is this octomom, who, in an unwed state, through in vitro, had 8 of them.

So, in a marriage, what is essential is love and commitment to share all the joy and sorrow with each other, not what kind of physical intimacy the partners practice.

Why can't the 'thick friends' decide to live as friends and why DO they decide to go against nature, creating new, unheard of, untreatable diseases in that process?

This also is a reflection of lack of awareness or prejudice or both. Homosexuality has always existed, it is not unique to humans. HIV was not created by homosexual acts. It is a virus that made the jump from simians to humans in Africa. The transmission of this virus is not exclusively through same sex contact. Sexual contact between a man and a woman is the overwhelming, or even exclusive, cause for the spread of this decease in Africa and Asia, particularly Tamil Nadu.

Deceases making the jump from animals to humans is a common occurrence. The recent Bird Flu and Swine Flu are a couple of glaring examples, but we don't blame people eating meat for these deceases, do we? Why blame homosexuals for AIDS?

For more on human deceases that came from animals, please visit this link.

Cheers!

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

Dear Shree. Nara,

I am talking about general rules and you are talking about the rare exceptions.

So as usual we are not seeing eye to eye. Did you ever ponder why H.I.V is

prevalent in Tamil Nadu, may be second only to Africa?

Anything against Nature will be punished by God/ Nature itself.

with warm regards,
V.R.

 

[Nara]

....I am talking about general rules and you are talking about the rare exceptions.

You asked, "But why only humans go against the Laws Of Nature?" To show that this statement is wrong all I had to do was show one rare case, but I gave you bunch. Homosexuality is part of nature, not a rare exception. Nature encompasses all, not just what conservatives consider proper.

So as usual we are not seeing eye to eye. Did you ever ponder why H.I.V is prevalent in Tamil Nadu, may be second only to Africa?

Not seeing eye-to-eye does not mean your position is somehow on par with what I am saying. If I could say this differently, to see eye-to-eye, you have to first open your eyes and see reality. HIV was a simian virus called SIV that passed a few ape species before ending up among humans. There were no "immoral" acts involved, just hunting and in the process coming into contact with infected blood.

The spread of HIV in Tamil Nadu is due to sexual contact between a man and a woman which you originally implied was natural as you stated that and only homosexual contact is against the Laws of Nature. Now, it looks like you want to include sexual contact outside of marriage itself as against the Laws of Nature. This is a case of pliable logic.

Let us get back to the subject of homosexuality which you blamed for "creating new, unheard of, untreatable diseases" with an icon at the end representing disgust, i.e., :doh:.

I have shown, in a rationally satisfactory fashion, that HIV and AIDS are not created by homosexuality as you claimed. (BTW, it is no longer untreatable.) There is nothing here to not see eye-to-eye, unless you choose to keep your eyes closed.

Anything against Nature will be punished by God/ Nature itself.

Did you even visit the link of the web site I quoted. Do you really think all those millions of people who died because of various deceases that jumped from an animal species to humans over centuries are punishment by God/Nature? What sort of against the nature acts did they all commit? Also, have you heard of AIDS babies? These are babies born to HIV infected mothers. What crime did these babies commit? Your god seems quite indiscriminate when it comes to meting out punishment, just like the U.S. bombing the heck out Afghan civilians because Al Queda once had training camps there.

Cheers!

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

dear Shree. Nara,

I did not visit the sites through the links given by you.

I have neither the time nor the interest nor the need to know them.

I believe in the Theory on Karma.

There is no cause without effect and no effect without cause.

Otherwise we will never be able to explain the things happening around

us all the time.

The sin committed by the poor infants (HIV infected) wont be known-

unless we are God to know the past, the present and the future.

I said the homosexuality is unnatural but I did not say the indiscriminate

heterosexuality is RIGHT any where in my post.The men pick up the

disease and infect their wives and through them the unborn children.

At times Ignorance IS bliss. The more we know, the more we think, the

more we react and the more we suffer.

I don't want to suffer! I will keep my views to myself in future.

wit warm regards,
V.R.eace:

 

[Nara]

....At times Ignorance IS bliss. The more we know, the more we think, the more we react and the more we suffer.

I don't want to suffer! I will keep my views to myself in future.

Thank you Mrs. VR. I have no problem with you having your views. Further, I believe very firmly that you have the right to express them without any fear. But, you must also realize that you will be challenged when you make factually false claims.

If you say you don't like homosexuality, that is fine. However, when you say homosexuality is unnatural, then you have to explain why it is unnatural given the abundance of homosexual behavior among various species of animals. Similarly, you can't say things like homosexuality created HIV/AIDS, or that it is God/nature's punishment for unnatural behavior, and expect not to be challenged.

peace out ....

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

dear Shree. nara,

I learnt a fine lesson today. Thank you for making me realize that I

must stay in my ground-where I am safe with facts and figures to

back me and my views.

As far as I know the two main causes of the spread of HIV is

homosexuality followed by heterosexuality and blood transfusion of

the infected blood.

I don't have all the time in the world to enter in to the web to find

proof for each and every statement that I make. I try to keep abreast

with the latest news to the best of my ability-which crumbles into

nothingness in front of intellectual giants like you.

As I had written elsewhere "Half of being smart lies in knowing what

we are dumb at". I will try my level best not to exhibit my dumbness

in future.:scared:

with warm regards,
V.R.