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happened in england.. not india

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I am still shocked as are many of my fellow asians that this happened and as I type still continues to happen here in Western Europe, not Afghanistan, not Iraq, not Somalia, but England!!. Most of the buildings, business and properties in my town have been razed down completely. Total anarchy here.

The police couldn't do much as they were not even allowed to use water cannons and tear gas (if this was Malaysia just 2 seconds before you start ritiong you will be greeted with the water cannon, and in the USA everyone rioting will probbaly be shot)

Very sad indeed for Britian especially with the Olympics coming up next year, its clear the Met cannot cope. Not to mention the cost and trauma this whole rioting/looting has incurred to so many people. Well its evening here and another night of looting has started...
 
Thank you for your first hand report. But News Channels flash disturbing information.Though the cause of the riots are largescale unemployment and aggravating poverty in groups of people the wrath is reportedly turned against Asians particularly Indians because they stick to their jobs or comparatively better off. This type of riot will erupt anywhere where there are disgruntled elements. God forbid other elements to lend their hands to worsen the situation. Of all the nations the UK is different and has a certain culture of its own which America may not be able to imbibe.
 
... and in the USA everyone rioting will probbaly be shot)...
amala, I am not a knee-jerk supporter of U.S. but your comment above is not correct. Police brutality is common everywhere, in Malaysia, in India, in UK, not just in USA or Malaysia.

The police brutally murdered Mark Duggan and lied that they acted in self defense because he had a gun. The media went wild with it, letting their worst stereotypes rule the airwaves. The police knew different, but it was convenient for them let the lies snowball.

The fact is, after the police murder of Duggan, the community went to the police asking for an explanation only to be rebuffed. Still the protest was peaceful. The originally peaceful protest turned violent only after the police beat an unarmed protestor, a 16 year old girl.

Even under such a scenario, a large underclass with unemployment in the stratosphere and a seedy cul de sac for future, refusing to take it any more and erupting cannot be justified, I agree, but, surely these are factors to consider before condemning them wholesale.

The rich and powerful steal in the billions and then get to sit in the House of Lords or whatever, but when the poor react to government actions that they consider unjust, everyone is shocked, shocked I say -- can it really happen in good ol London? Mumbai or KL, that is fine, but in Clapham and Croydon, oh no!!!

Cheers! :)
 
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I am still shocked as are many of my fellow asians that this happened and as I type still continues to happen here in Western Europe, not Afghanistan, not Iraq, not Somalia, but England!!. Most of the buildings, business and properties in my town have been razed down completely. Total anarchy here.

The police couldn't do much as they were not even allowed to use water cannons and tear gas (if this was Malaysia just 2 seconds before you start ritiong you will be greeted with the water cannon, and in the USA everyone rioting will probbaly be shot)

Very sad indeed for Britian especially with the Olympics coming up next year, its clear the Met cannot cope. Not to mention the cost and trauma this whole rioting/looting has incurred to so many people. Well its evening here and another night of looting has started...

Hi Amala:

Please keep writing about this "as you see it on the ground".

I am expecting similar riots to break out anytime in the US.... because of high unemployment among youth and the so-called austerity measures that the Republicans are pushing for....

Instead of addressing the core issue of creating MORE JOBS, the politicians are talking about budget deficit and debt... totally inappropriate for the current economic and employment situation in the US (and Europe).

Rough times are ahead of US, watch out.

Cheers.
 
Mark Duggan's death is unfortunate to say the least. But let us not hold him up as a beacon of morality. He was a common street thug. Please don't romaticise that the rioting and the looting happening currently is because of the injustice to Duggan and his family by the Met (if his family was soo concerned how about stopping him from being a thug cum drug dealer cum criminal)

The looters now are nothing but parasites taking advantage of the weak policing and the current vulnerable situation. Scum, every one of the looters. Nothing more. Its NOT about Mark Duggan anymore.

And yes they are tending to target South Asian homes, as they are all well aware its the SA that keep all the 916 gold at home.
 
Hi Amala:

Please keep writing about this "as you see it on the ground".

I am expecting similar riots to break out anytime in the US.... because of high unemployment among youth and the so-called austerity measures that the Republicans are pushing for....

Instead of addressing the core issue of creating MORE JOBS, the politicians are talking about budget deficit and debt... totally inappropriate for the current economic and employment situation in the US (and Europe).

Rough times are ahead of US, watch out.

Cheers.

hi Y
i smell the same in near future in USA....similar thing going to be here in USA.....these austerity measures only for common man....

not for senators......or for rich and afffluent corporates.....like greece/italy/even/spain ...same fate for other europian countries......

it will be like wild fire...very difficult to control by police force.....it still worse......sonner or later USA will be same mode....india/

china can control....becoz we lived like these situation before....we have rationing system.....our politicians are more freebies.....

austerity is less in india.....rough times ahead for US , watch out.....i second it.....amala....give more real ground report and take care

yourself...............god bless u...


regards
tbs
 
....The looters now are nothing but parasites taking advantage of the weak policing and the current vulnerable situation. Scum, every one of the looters.
Amala, your anger is justified. But Mark Duggan, even if he was a violent thug and a criminal -- these seem to be more media hype than actually true -- does not deserve to be summarily shot dead, execution style, by the police. It was not some unfortunate accidental killing.

You are right on the rioting being not about Duggan. The trigger was the violent police response to the peaceful protests. This rioting was an opportunistic response to the police attitude to the murder, by an urban underclass with little or no stake in the larger society.

The heat of the present moment is far too high for a balanced analysis of the causes, such analysis will surely be seen as romantization of rioting and looting. But, a calm accounting of all factors is essential if a sense of hope is to be planted in the minds of the least among the society, a sense of hope that there is a plausible way out of the underbelly of society.

I recommend you read this Guardian piece in their Comment is free section.

Cheers!
 
here is my take on this one.

i cannot but help looking back at the slums of mandaveli and also thinking of mumbai's dharavi.

we have community housing in toronto which were recently razed for brand new, ultra modern buildings for the poor. the only problem i had with this, was that i found nothing wrong with the old buildings. they were solid brick structures, a little worn by years, but nothing a good spruce up could not fix.

but the poor, and most of them are recent arrivals from abroad, have access now to western luxury style housing at tax payer's cost, a/c and all, free wifi - which most of toronto's good citizens accept. they do not even complain. would be surprised if these rioted, but these are from sri lanka, somalia and very grateful for the good life. unlike the past immigrants from the caribbean, who trashed a newly apartment complex within 3 months. yes. trashed it.

take britain: so when these kids, who are housed in similar state owned housing, free of cost, have food at state's cost, and do not know what hunger is, like the poor of india or now somalia, unable to take advantage of what i would consider, world class education system, provided free, and who, by all accounts have poor work ethic to such an extent, that a british employer would hire someone off the boat, than the home grown ghetto kids - i wonder. i really wonder.

apparently these people have anger. anger at what. at the prosperity produced by hard work? the british asians, most of them are corner shop keepers or mechanics or similar work with their hands. they did not any harm to any body. the looters this time, were apparently freeloading shoppers. ofcourse this will and has happened in the usa - last major riots in watts near l.a. where no one knows how many blacks were killed.

dont even know, if jobs are available, these youngsters will take it. if the american blacks took all the jobs available, there would be none left for the illegal latinos. similarly if the british white youths took all the jobs that are available, there would be none for the 'refugees'. last time i was in london, i met a guy, who ran the nearest cornershop, had arrived in london 2 months before, native of royapuram near chennai, and claimed 'refugee' status. i asked what type of a refugee he was; he smiled, looked around, and asked me, was this not a better country than india. i had to agree.

if you take the blacks out of factoring the crimes in toronto, our jail would be nearly empty. dont know what to make of this. but sure enough, anger in england, usa, toronto, destroys stuff, that has been created by the sweat of honest folks, and not all of them rich or racist, over a long period of time. and it takes a few minutes to reduce it all to ashes.

maybe they should bring back the whip, the noose and the ball crusher. atleast the tax payers can console themselves that there will be some residual pain felt, on the inflicters of the damage too.
 
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Kunjuppu mama is spot on. This is not the United States for these so called underclass to be frustrated. They have everything free. From housing (lovely fully heated in winter, all utilities provided), food, free medical/medicines free schooling. Everything. They refuse to work even if there are jobs. They have absolutely no work ethic. This is a whole generation of "feral teens/kids" whose goal in life is to get drunk impregnate or become pregnant just to get on the housing ladder (1st priority for expectant mothers)

They have expensive electronic items in their council houses, cars and even get to go on holidays abroad. Why work work when everything is provided? Also notice the looters were mostly looting expensive clothing stores, branded shops and electronic stores for their 50 inch flatscreens, ipads, cash machines and what not. Nobody was robbing a food shop because they were hungry.

Sometimes I feel like I've walked into a page of William Goldings "Lord of the Flies".
 
The only plausible way out of this mess as I see it is to abolish social welfare. I cannot believe its me saying this as I am (was?) a strong suppporter of social and state welfare. Or (at the risk of sounding racist) ship certain ethnicities who are prone to this (in spite of having everything unlike your average poor homeless African American) back to the islands!
 
amala,

let us swing back to the 1930s. even though england ruled 1/3 of the world then, there was horrendous poverty in the uk and also in europe.

the east end of london was slums, and the english class system was as rigid as the indian caste system. even now, when we all speak the same language tamil, dont we give ourselves away with our ethnicity?

likewise was england - the london cockney being the lowest with the aristocrats being the top end, with their toff accent and clothes (shaw makes a big parody of this 'middle class' values in pygmalion, which was made into that great movie my fair lady).

the sacrifices performed by the working class during the war, was deemed to deserve a reward. hence came national health, social welfare, a whole slew of publicly funded free universities, subsidized council houses and such. the money for all this came from dismantling the huge royal navy and the military, which was used to tame the empire. the empire where the sun never set, was a huge drain on the exchequer, inspite of paupering countries like india. it costs a lot to have military adventures abroad, as the usa is now finding, and which fact bankrupted the erstwhile ussr and ultimately disintegrated it ie afghanistan.

the british also, for the first time, taxed the rich. at one point, the uk had among the highest income taxes in the world.

one would have thought that all this move to egalitarianism would make the worker happy now that the slums were gone, free education upto university provided, and for the first time in the history of england, upward mobility of the lower classes was possible.

the opposite happened. the british worker became more militant. the work ethic disappeared to the cause of militant trade unionism. the first casualty was the british motor industry, which at one point, had different companies - vauxhall, morris, humber, hillman, rootes, bently, rolls royce, jaguar, morris, austin and probably more. one by one they shut down, due to poor quality, driven more by drunken workers and equally stupid management.

next came the british ship industry, which was #1 in the world, and which soon saw clyde shipyards close one by one. then came aerospace and so on, till now, that there is no british owned motor car, shipping left. rolls royce being the only leftover engine maker.

the newly upwardly mobile middle class soon got disgusted with their erstwhile cousins, who still were union labour and espoused class warfare. one such ex working class girl, named margaret thatcher, single handedly broke the unions, trimmed the welfare state, though not to the extent she would have liked (she got thrown out by her own party) and started the new age of unbridled capitalism in england, while still maintaining the old but benignly neglected social welfare net. the net now being funded by the oil from north sea, and not taxes.

today, the oil is drying. two generations of youth, have grown without jobs, thanks to liberal immigration, where folks from poland, india or sri lanka or somalia, would come, and work for half the wages, double the time and would not complain.

these now own shops and houses all over england. the poles have gone back but not the others. these are a constant reminder to white and black britain, of what could have been, but did not happen. for reasons, no one is honest enough to utter, for being termed anti social, racist or arrogant.

let us see, what tomorrow brings...
 
amala, I am not a knee-jerk supporter of U.S. but your comment above is not correct. Police brutality is common everywhere, in Malaysia, in India, in UK, not just in USA or Malaysia.
Cheers! :)

Agree with Mr. Nara here. Police brutality in India is an order of magnitude more than in the US. Demonstrators in India get shot at by the police all the time!
 
The only plausible way out of this mess as I see it is to abolish social welfare. I cannot believe its me saying this as I am (was?) a strong suppporter of social and state welfare. Or (at the risk of sounding racist) ship certain ethnicities who are prone to this (in spite of having everything unlike your average poor homeless African American) back to the islands!

I cannot believe it myself that I did a like on your post. Even though I have a soft corner for the under-privileged, there is just no excuse for criminal behavior. A criminal should be punished like a criminal regardless of ethnic or economic background.
 
The only plausible way out of this mess as I see it is to abolish social welfare. I cannot believe its me saying this as I am (was?) a strong suppporter of social and state welfare.
Amala, there is no excuse for criminal behavior, looting, and rioting. At the same time consider the plight of all those other poor trying their might to make the best of it.

Arrest the criminals, prosecute them and throw them in prison, but don't doubt the social welfare state, we are our brothers and sisters keepers, not all of them are looters and rioters.

Cheers!
 
There is lot of insecurity growing among lot of europeans due to increasing number of muslims and asians. This is making them uneasy.
The Denmark and England incident are just the tip of the iceberg.
Our Nation is ours and theirs is theirs. Doesn't matter how longer you might be staying in another nation, you still will be as per the original inhabitants an Outsider.
The Security, comfort, dignity, freedom, self respect that one enjoys in his own mother nation can't be secured in another one.

sai,

are you surprised.

look at us. how we look at, consider and treat the anglo indians?

i grew up in an anglo indian catholic neighbourhood, and thought them the same as us.

i went to iit madras, and we went on a bus tour past perambur. saw a lot of anglo indian girls on the road, and the north indian guys started shouting 'dingo dingo' at them.

some of the girls were embarassed, and others angry.

this slur word was new to me. i was so shocked to see my erstwhile friends behave thus. and too timid to challenge or stop it.

to this day, i am ashamed i did not stand upto them and tell them to shut up.

we indians have no right to call other folks racist. let us look into our own backyards. :(

the european societies are ancient societies, with deep felt histories. does anyone know that the croissant bake that they have is a commemorative bread, to remember the victory of the austro hungarians against the turks, battle of lepanto, 1571 against muslim turks, almost a miracle, as the christians should have been defeated by a superior force?

till 1950s all these societies were exclusively white. today there are mosques a stones throw from the 1000 year old cologne cathedral, which the turks won by legal arguement. the liberal european society is finding now, that its hard earned secularistic liberalism at prey by fundamentalist and folks intent on destroying its very structure.

atleast that is the way i see it. and it might do well to remember, just 66 years ago, the europeans indulged in the biggest massacre ever witnessed in the world - the second world war. the europeans are capable of great cruelties and prejudices. let us not take the example of our lifetime, as examples of their historic tolerance. none exists on that front.

just my proverbial 1 1/2 paisa.. which exists no more :)
 
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The scums are in jail, the looters have been put away, streets are quiet, 100 million in damage, inexplicable violence, nihilistic, it is not poverty it is their culture, culture of entitlement ....

The civilized and respectable are out and about, creating jobs that pay minimum wage and helping to 100s of billions for themselves from taxes others pay, making laws that say their looting is legal, buildings never burn, shop windows never broken, streets are cheerful, no damage done, at least no damage they can see or insurance can cover, it is in their culture, culture of greed ....
 
This evening I am watching The Hunchback of Notre Dame, the original (1939). I came across a dialogue, very prescient to the misdemeanors of scums. Here it is, spoken by a gipsy leader:

"...our robberies are petty compared to the wholesale plunder of the nation."

More than 70 years later, it is still true, in Wall Street and Croydon, Peckham, Ealing and Clapham.

Cheers!
 
Agree with Mr. Nara here. Police brutality in India is an order of magnitude more than in the US. Demonstrators in India get shot at by the police all the time!

as somebody living in India, i am not sure when that ( Demonstrators in India get shot at by the police all the time! ) happened actually. Blame it on the media but not on reality :)
 
sai,

the european societies are ancient societies, with deep felt histories. does anyone know that the croissant bake that they have is a commemorative bread, to remember the victory of the austro hungarians against the turks, battle of lepanto, 1571 against muslim turks, almost a miracle, as the christians should have been defeated by a superior force?

till 1950s all these societies were exclusively white. today there are mosques a stones throw from the 1000 year old cologne cathedral, which the turks won by legal arguement. the liberal european society is finding now, that its hard earned secularistic liberalism at prey by fundamentalist and folks intent on destroying its very structure.

atleast that is the way i see it. and it might do well to remember, just 66 years ago, the europeans indulged in the biggest massacre ever witnessed in the world - the second world war. the europeans are capable of great cruelties and prejudices. let us not take the example of our lifetime, as examples of their historic tolerance. none exists on that front.

just my proverbial 1 1/2 paisa.. which exists no more :)


well , now in south India, you can find Churches at a stones throw in every nook and corner. Last heard, late YSR was instrumental in building various churches in Andhra in almost every village there, when the farmer poverty was a more pressing issue.

So, if the Whites are justified in feeling agitated about the Mosques there, does it mean we people here should feel the same way about the Churches and their Mass Conversion MLM schemes too ?

bear in mind that unlike in UK where the asians are looked down, here in TN it is us Brahmans who are looked down and mocked at and not the minority.
 
as somebody living in India, i am not sure when that ( Demonstrators in India get shot at by the police all the time! ) happened actually. Blame it on the media but not on reality :)

Even I thought the same but since I don't live in India I wasn't sure!
 
The unpleasantness and chaos in the States is worth concern,especially during the present scenario,during financial constraints in the States.
Kannan anikode.
 
as somebody living in India, i am not sure when that ( Demonstrators in India get shot at by the police all the time! ) happened actually. Blame it on the media but not on reality :)

For better or for worse, I have also lived in India and I remember it happening during a Bandh (general strike). Perhaps we did not live in the same India ...
 
niy,

re your post #22

in europe, these are brand new comers from other societies and races and cultures.

in india, if we hindus, take a little more care of all our dalits and feel more inclusive of the so called 'lower castes', i think, the issue of mass conversions to other religions will not happen. it is only when we are disunited and bent of disenfranchising our own, that others have copportunity to spread their influence.

india and europr: two completely different situations.
 
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