Gothram

[samgeeth]

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Could someone confirm whether it is true that persons belonging to the Vishwamitra gothram may not marry those of the Kaushika gothram

Thank you

Samgeeth

 

[kgopalan]

Viswamithrar; jamadhagni;bharadhwajar;gowthamar;athri;vasister;kashyapar; agasthiar----sons of these rishis are called gothram. Born in these gothra vamsam some sons were famous and some were not famous. These famous sons are called pravara rishigal; In Srivatsa gothram smarthas and srivaishnavaas are there.Even though the vedham; smrithi; gothra rishi is same for all but there are some aachaarya sampradaayam deviation is there. Sri ramanujar srivaishnava sampradaayam is different from from smaartha sampradaayam; in the same manner acharya sampradayam differs in each gothram;

rishi viswamithrar ( on those days without sexual intercourse rishis can create by their thinking power itself not only sons and daughters but also trees;herbs;animals; oorvana; parappana etc had thousands of sons and some are very familiar and some are not. those familiar sons had given birth to many sons; each one had different sampradayam.

Now coming to your point in abhivaadhaye if you say abhivaadhaye viswamithra devaradha auwdhava thrayarishyee pravaranvithha viswamithra gothraha you should not marry girls from viswamithram; devaradha and auwdhava gothram .

But in your abhivaadhaye abhivadhaye viswamithra agamarshana; kousika thrayarishaya pravaranvithaha kousiga gothraha you should not marry girls from kousigam;viswamithram; agamarshana gothram people.

There are ekha rishaye; dwayarsheya;thrayaesheya;pancharsheya;saptarsheya pravarams. kindly note in your abivadhaye .

Abivadhaye bhargava; syavana; aapnavana; aurva; jamadhagniya pancharishaya In this you should not marry girls from bhargava; syavana; aapnavana; aurva; jamadhagni gothram. Like this each one can follow this method.

 

[kunjuppu]

the way i understand it, post #2:

even if you are in different gothrams, if the rishi names are interlinked, we should not enter into marriage with those folks. right?

 

[amala]

So what rishis are interlinked with Haritha gothram? On a personal note I prefer my mother's Vishwamitra gothram to my father's Haritha one because Haritha is a not as popular

 

[kunjuppu]

So what rishis are interlinked with Haritha gothram? On a personal note I prefer my mother's Vishwamitra gothram to my father's Haritha one because Haritha is a not as popular

oh dear!! amala, i am haritha gothram too!

... and you want to abandon me?



ps..look at it this way.. because haritha is not popular, you get to choose more guys laah!

pps.. if i remember my abhivaadeye right, the associated rishies are: aangareesa, aambareetscha, yavvunaasuva - thraiyaarishedu ie 3 rishis

 

[N.R.Ranganathan]

Could someone confirm whether it is true that persons belonging to the Vishwamitra gothram may not marry those of the Kaushika gothram

Thank you

Samgeeth

Generally not recommended- sage koushika, viswamitra and agamarshna are
supposed to be one.

 

[tbs]

So what rishis are interlinked with Haritha gothram? On a personal note I prefer my mother's Vishwamitra gothram to my father's Haritha one because Haritha is a not as popular

hi amala..

harithasa gothram very popular in telugu brahmins.....bharadwaja is very common in tamil and many brahmin families....i know

many ppl from haritha gothrams......

regards
tbs

 

[amala]

Kunjuppu mama, I always knew you were family!!!

TBSgaru,

Yes Bharadwaja very popular. I used to ask my father if he was sure we were Haritha as I'd never heard of it before!

 

[nachi naga]

no wonder i rock like a pendulum,traya rishi bharadwaja ....forgotten my abhivadayeah too.acharyaal plz forgive me

 

[tbs]

no wonder i rock like a pendulum,traya rishi bharadwaja ....forgotten my abhivadayeah too.acharyaal plz forgive me

hi nachi naga sir
abhivadaye aangirasa, baarhaspatya bharadawja thraya risheya.......................

regrads
tbs

 

[narayananms]

dear all

i think my earlier post had not been uploaded correctly and hence this post.

i would like to have a draft (in tamil) of punyavachanam of a child - for sending invitations to relatives.

i would also like to know if any patrika has to be read on that occasion - if so its format.

thanks

narayananms

 

[sangom]

Could someone confirm whether it is true that persons belonging to the Vishwamitra gothram may not marry those of the Kaushika gothram

Thank you

Samgeeth

Dear Samgeeth,

We had extensive discussions, more than once, about gotras in this forum. This topic raises its head every once in a while, may be because many TBs think that if they follow the gotra rules strictly, they will be rated as first class brahmins; but the truth is that almost all TBs today are vaishyas bent upon earning money and amassing wealth, or, Sudras who are in servitude to the govts., and MNCs etc. I would therefore request you to disabuse your mind about this nonsense called gotram.

As to your query, the concept of gotram is a fallacy; it just tells the name of one or sometimes two ṛṣis who were the gurus of the original patriarch of one's lineage. For example if you were living in those hoary days when the gotras were just getting formed, and were a disciple of ṛṣi A, then your sons, grandsons and so on would take the label of "A gotra" and have an abhivādaye of 1,3,5, or even 7 ṛṣis, starting with the name A; the rest of the names would be of others who were illustrious ṛṣis of A's lineage. But supposing that one of your sons, grandsons or someone down the line got gurukulavāsaṃ with another famous ṛṣi B and decides to adopt B's gotram, then he and his successors would become B gotra brahmanas. However we have been fed and brainwashed into believing that all A gotra people are true and direct descendants of ṛṣi A; the fact that people who embraced Vaishnavite sect continued with their original gotra labels was due to this, but they could have very well formed a new Ramanuja gotra or some such thing.

I reproduce below what I wrote in an earlier post on gotram-related doubt in this very forum. (I am unable to locate it; this is from what I saved in my computer.) I feel this should reveal that people of different gotra names, by theory, can be patrilineal and hence come under the "sagotra" defect.

aṅgiras, marīci, atri, vasiṣṭha, pulaha, pulastya, kratu are the mānasaputras of brahma. The geneology of vasiṣṭha is like this:

marīci > kaśyapa > mitra varuṇa > vasiṣṭha > 1. indrapramadi, 2. śakti, 3. maitrāvaruṇa
1. indrapramadi > ābharadvasu > upamanyu
2. śakti > parāśara
3. maitrāvaruṇa > kuṇḍita

If we look at kaśyapa vamśāvali, it shows the following:

marīci > kaśyapa > 1. avatsāra, 2. asita
1. avatsāra > 1a. rebha, 1b. nidruva
2. asita > devala

agastya vaṃśa is :-
kaśyapa > mitrāvaruṇa > agastya > dṛḍhacyuta > idhmavāha

Thus we find that agastya and vasiṣṭha are patrilineal, actually brothers.

viṣṇuvṛddha and harīta gotras also trace back to marīci: marīci > kaśyapa >vivasvān > manu > ikṣvāku ...>yuvanāśva > mandhātā > 1. purukutsa, 2. ambarīṣa
1. purukutsa > trasadasyu > sambhūta > viṣṇuvṛddha
2. ambarīṣa > yuvanāśva > harīta

Now let us see how the pravaras (rishi lineages to be recited in the abhivādaye), gotras and sūtras are all mixed up.

āṅgirasa - ājamīḍa - kāṇva — ājamīḍa gotra — āpastamba sūtra
āṅgirasa - ājamīḍa - kāṇva — gardabha gotra — matsya sūtra

āṅgirasa - kaurava - kāṇva — gardabha gotra — āśvalāyana sūtra
āṅgirasa - gauruvīta - sāṅkṛtya — cāndrāyaṇa gotra — bodhāyana sūtra
sādhya - sāṅkṛtya - gauruvīta — saṃkṛti gotra — āpastamba sūtra

vaiśvāmitra - daivarāta - audala — jābāla gotra — bodhāyana / kātyāyana / laugākṣi gotras
vaiśvāmitra - daivarāta - audala — devarāta gotra — āpastamba sūtra

It will thus be seen that if we have to go by "unrelated" gotras in the patrilineal sense of the term, many gotras would have to be discarded. It is my considered view that the gotras or tribal groups which got absorbed into the Aryan way of living and were granted brahman status, were also bestowed with a certain gotra and a suitable lineage from one of the well-known rishis. That is how we get different gotras for father, son, grandson etc.

 

[Haridasa Siva]

I am Haridasa Siva and now I come to know Haridasa Amala and Haridasa Kunjuppu too. Cheers.....

Aangeerasa... Ambareesa.... Youvanashya.... Triya Rishi... Pravaraanmita... Haridasa gothrodbavasya....

 

[kgopalan]

Reply to thread 11. punyahavachanam. I have given in page no. 11. in ayush homam and mottai , also i have given for punyahavachanam for children, in detail. no patrica to be read any doubts please feel free to ask.

 

[kgopalan]

for invitation to relatives, again the usual format. Nigalaum kara varusham aadi madham 18 th date (3-8-2011) enathu magan chi.ragavanin
kulandaikku morning 9 mani mudhal 10 manikkul punyahvachanam , naamakaanam, ear ring maatudhal function nadakirapadial thaangal thangal ista mithra bandhukaludan vandhu kulandayum aasirvadhithu engalyyum gowravikka vendumai kettu kolkirom. write one like this.

 

[sangom]

I am Haridasa Siva and now I come to know Haridasa Amala and Haridasa Kunjuppu too. Cheers.....

Aangeerasa... Ambareesa.... Youvanashya.... Triya Rishi... Pravaraanmita... Haridasa gothrodbavasya....

The correct rendering would be :—

आङ्गिरस अाम्बरीष यौवनाश्व त्रयाऋषॆय प्रवरान्वित हरित गोत्र बोधायन सूत्र हरिदास शिव शर्मा नामाऽहं अस्मि भॊः

āṅgirasa āmbarīṣa yauvanāśva trayāṛṣeya pravarānvita harita gotra bodhāyana sūtra haridāsa śiva śarmā nāmā:'haṃ asmi bhoḥ

If you follow the āśvalāyana sūtra, the ṛṣis will be māndhātṛ, āmbarīṣa, yauvanāśva

 

[kunjuppu]

sangom,

when will these people give up the blind faith in gothrams jaadhagams caste subcaste and focus on the human being?

the more i see this, and in the matrimony ads, i get very depressed at the hopelessnes of reason, and futility of education.

 

[Haridasa Siva]

Ref. Post 16: Sangom sir, I follow Telugu sampradaaya and hence my abhivaadaye is different. I end up my salutation as "ahambo abhivaadaye" and not as "asmi bo"


Ref. Post 17: I don't think faith in gothra/jaataga etc. comes in the way of a person's "focus on human beings". I also feel that education has got nothing to do with one's belief system. So, if one has faith in something which is found to be "blind faith" by another, the former's education is not futile.

 

[sangom]

sangom,

when will these people give up the blind faith in gothrams jaadhagams caste subcaste and focus on the human being?

the more i see this, and in the matrimony ads, i get very depressed at the hopelessnes of reason, and futility of education.

Kunjuppu,

It is a very difficult matter. Religion goes so deep and so strongly into people's brain and mind that reason has almost no role to play when it comes to matters of religion, even for very renowned scientists sometimes. The affliction is compounded many times by the preachings of the modern babas, swamis, gurus, acharyas et al. Unless individuals start thinking why the Brahmam, Allah, God or nature produced so many religious streams and was it not possible for the same Brahmam, Allah, God or nature, to make it more or less uniform in the sme way humans are, all over the world, people will not understand and realize that all religions are man-made and not God-made and that its importance is only to that extent. They will then realize that all religions describe God just as the legendary blind men describing the elephant; that would mean that no religion has found the TRUE GOD and THAT or HE remains unknown to man even today. If people turn agnostic in this way, reason will prevail over the blind faith in religion and then all such inhibitions like gotram, sub-caste, etc., will disappear. As to astrology, I am still unable to pronounce with confidence that it is completely bunkum though I agree that horoscope-matching for marriage serves no useful purpose, except perhaps giving a polite reason to either side to reject a proposal.