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[SuryaKasyapa]

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I am attaching a link to one of today's news articles in an Indian Newspaper.

HindustanTimes ePaper - Article


Any comments?

Sorry

Greetings

 

[kunjuppu]

i wonder if the priests too got a piece of action !!

 

[drsundaram]

unable to read the article on seeing the ghastly photo itself. I don't know whether I am only one or so unable to read/see such a "cruelty to core" pictures. By the by what are we aiming to do by publishing such links???.

 

[RVR]

Horrible.

What the animal protection groups are doing?

It is happening in another country `Nepal' but through some international organisations, we should try stop this practice.

All the best

 

[renuka]

It looks ghory because it is published for us to read and witness but the truth is killing of animals take place on regular basis at the abators all around the world.

We feel sad and affected to see this photos today but we will forget it tommorow.
The human memory is quite selective.
We only remember what we want and what makes us happy.

Now the question is can all these can be really stopped?

Education in Human Values is the answer.

I am not asking the whole world to become vegetarian.
Its not possible for everyone to do so due to environmental factors, eg eskimos,bush men and certain cultural beliefs as published in the newspaper article.

Since we are Hindus we can start of at the level of Hindu society first.

Firstly Hindus need to understand that God has never asked us for a sacrifice of life.

Cultural practices have been asimilated into religion and caused confusion.
Culture and Religion can be interrelated but need not complement one another.

Remember the whole Thali episode: Thali came across as a cultural addition post Vedic era.

I am not saying that all cultural practices are bad but some might not be condusive and need to be weeded out.

This is where the services of the learned is greatly needed.
In India learneds can be found anywhere.
I find many in this Forum too.

Talk shows can be be a good start.
We need neutral religious talk shows where Principles of Hindusim can be debated and discussed to impart knowledge to the public.

I used the word "neutral religious talk show" that is the show should not sway towards Shaivaism, Vaishavanism or Sakthism and just the Essense of Hinduism discussed so that there wont be "internal battles" which might just defeat the purpose.

Education in Human Values might take time but its never too late to start.

 

[Raghy]

Sow. Sri. Renukakarthikayan,

Killing of animals does take place in the abattoirs around the world; but they are not done in the name of religion. In the link provided by Sri. Suryakasyaypa, an aimless whole scale buthcring of animals (the flesh will go to waste, for sure) in the name of religion.

Animal sacrifice is not a cultural practice added to the vedic practices. Paramacharyal who spoke the truth mentioned about the animal sacrifices in the yajnas in the vedic period, in the book 'Dheivathin kural'. Acharyal also mentioned that the brahmins of those days ate the flesh of the sacrified animal as 'avir bhagham'. Acharyal actually mentioned the amount of flesh consumed ( Acharyal said it was a very small amount). Further Acharyal mentioned that in today's yajna's, animal figures made out of flour are used in the place of actual animals for sacrifical purposes. If you read those passages, you may actually feel the grief felt by Acharya about these practices. But unfortunately, Acharyal was a strict follower of sastras, due to acharyals position (through acharyal's own words).

Hindus have various food habits. In West Bengal, fish is considered vegitarian diet; brahmins in West Bengal eat fish too. Beef is an acceptable diet for the Hindus in Kerala state. So, kindly don't assume all hindus are vegetarians.

Honestly, I don't know how to continue to write this message. Sri. drsundaram felt so bad, he could not even read the news article. I can understand his feelings to certain extend. But, it is the ugly truth about hinduism. It was widely practised in the past; Gautama Buddha put an end to it in those days. It is a pity it still continues. I read about the animal sacrifices in Nepal about 10 may be 12 years back. The hindus in Nepal never stopped their killing spree, by the looks of it.

 

[RVR]

What they do with the so called sacrificed animals. Do they cook and eat?

I have seen in my village animal sacrifice. They just sacrifice one goat. Not at the numbers published in the article.

Is there any international body where we can write and try to stop it atleast in the future.

In my village, certain community members who were working in our farm use to offer toddy to their God `muniyandi' or some thing. Finally the toddy will be consumed by the men folks themselves. This is seems to be a much better practice then sacrificing animals.

Probably we can prevail upon the organisers to switch to toddy or even high end liquors. May certain Gods will prefer premium scotch wisky and certain Gods will be satisfied with local toddy.

Organisers will also be happy since at the end of the day Gods are not going to consume the liquor and the organisers can literally go on high spirits.

All the best

 

[renuka]

Dear Raghy,
thank you for your reply.
Sathya Sai Baba has mentioned that its not the animal which has to be sacrificed but the animal qualities in us(the Pashu in us) that needs to be sacrificed.
The Horse sacrifice can be explained like this.
Have you observed a Horse?
at any one time it can not keep still.Some bodily part or the other will be moving, tail,ear, leg, face.
The horse is by nature a restless animal.
The horse symbolises the restless nature of the human mind and its this restlessness which needs to be sacrificed and not the animal.

A human being no matter how learned in the Vedas is still a human being and can misinterprate any teaching at anytime. no one is perfect.
along the way the Vedic hidden meanings could have got misinterprated and to put back things in the right track and for "Dharma Samasthaa Panaarthaaya" God incarnated as Lord Buddha and put and end to animal sacrifice.
Even in present day we see people claiming their chosen form of divinity is "superior" to another's chosen form of divinity.
Even many learned ones today do not understand "Ekam Sat Viprah Bahuda Vadanti"

 

[Raghy]

RVR said :-

"In my village, certain community members who were working in our farm use to offer toddy to their God `muniyandi' or some thing. Finally the toddy will be consumed by the men folks themselves. This is seems to be a much better practice then sacrificing animals."

I agree with you RVR. To 'Kadhir Kamam' Murugan, in Srilanka, toddy was one of the offerings! as you rightly said, toddy or even 'jack daniels bourboun' is a much better offering than a helpless animal. Personally, my question would be, what is the need for any offering at all?, but, if one believes in making an offering to the god, it is better to spare the animals.

 

[Raghy]

Sow. Sri. Renukakarthikayan,

"many learned ones today do not understand "Ekam Sat Viprah Bahuda Vadanti"

I don't know the meaning either. Of course, I do not know Sanskrit. I can make out 'one truth....' that's all; the rest, I don't understand.

 

[RVR]

Sri Raghy,

We don't have to offer any thing to God. Every thing belongs to him including you and I.

I always believe `Nobody can grease and please God'


All the best

 

[Raghy]

Sharmaji,

I humbly request you to delete your message, please. We all have a lot of respect for you. Thank you.

 

[RVR]

Sharmaji,

I humbly request you to delete your message, please. We all have a lot of respect for you. Thank you.

Sri Raghy,

It is the prerogative of Sharma ji to delete or not. I have nothing to say.

However we are facing acute shortage of girls in our community. If we have to go by the statistics of matrimony sites, almost four boys are chasing one girl. Why it is so? Overall statistics for Tamilnadu & India is 950 female for 1000 male population.

Now determination of sex during pregnancy is legally banned in India. But there was no such law earlier. There is every possibility that Sri Sharma's statement may be true.

Anyway damage has been done. I don't think Brahma would have made the mistake in his calculations.

I earnestly feel there is nothing wrong in discussing this subject in open and try to avoid it atleast in the future.

If everybody feel so, I have no objection to even delete this posting and would not talk about it in future.

All the best

 

[renuka]

Dear Raghy,

i feel you understand the meaning of Ekam Sat Viprah Bahuda Vadanti, because if you really didnt know sanskrit how come you never asked me the meaning of Dharma Samsthaa Panaarthaaya.

 

[Raghy]

Sri Raghy,

It is the prerogative of Sharma ji to delete or not. I have nothing to say.

However we are facing acute shortage of girls in our community. If we have to go by the statistics of matrimony sites, almost four boys are chasing one girl. Why it is so? Overall statistics for Tamilnadu & India is 950 female for 1000 male population.

Now determination of sex during pregnancy is legally banned in India. But there was no such law earlier. There is every possibility that Sri Sharma's statement may be true.

Anyway damage has been done. I don't think Brahma would have made the mistake in his calculations.

I earnestly feel there is nothing wrong in discussing this subject in open and try to avoid it atleast in the future.

If everybody feel so, I have no objection to even delete this posting and would not talk about it in future.

All the best

Sri RVR,

Selective abortion was wrong. Animal killing in the name of 'sacrifice' is wrong. Two wrongs can not be compared so as to say one is better than other. Two wrongs will always amount two wrongs only; they will not cancel each other. I am careful, not to mention any names here.

Domesticated animal population can always be controlled by desexing method. Kindly don't mistake me, please. By all means, we should discuss this topic; but we should never condone such religion based killings. You did not say anything condoning such henious acts.

 

[Raghy]

Dear Raghy,

i feel you understand the meaning of Ekam Sat Viprah Bahuda Vadanti, because if you really didnt know sanskrit how come you never asked me the meaning of Dharma Samsthaa Panaarthaaya.

Sow. sri Renukakathikayan,

I really do not know sanskrit. I did not understand that second phrase either. But I mentioned only one in my previous post. The only Sanskrit verses I post with meanings are for Srimat Baghavat Gita. I have the meanings with me, ready to refer. that's all. as I always mention, I am only a village born person with very limited exposure to learning anything other than what was taught in the school. Now that I have said so much, I can google those phrases to get the meaning; or when my wife comes home, I will ask her. She has little bit more knowledge than me.

as I always maintain, I try to simplyfy everything I come across that seem interesting. Then only I can understand that. If you recall, in a post I mentined that you are jumping the gun when you had 'Tat Tvam asi' in your signature. My summer break starts from Saturday. I have been planning to discuss 'Tat Tvam Asi' with you after that. If I am not wrong, there will be more enlightening inputs from other members too. Sorry to disappoint you; I am really not a learned person. I am sorry.

 

[T.S.Sankara Narayanan]

First Animal Sacrifice : It is also considered as a part of Hindu Culture.In Kannappa Nayanar Story,it was said that he has offered "Meat of Pigs" to Lord Shiva.
Muslims used to sacrifice the meat of Camel to all the poor people and they propagate that they are offering to the poor on the name of Allah during Bhakrid and Ramzan.
As far as Christians are concerned," One Time Sowing ...and Life Time Harvesting is their principle".
They show mercy to poor and in return Convert that Poor to Christianity.
So animal sacrifice is followed in Hinduism and as well as Islam.This is followed for a very long time,and Court or any other External ban can do nothing in it.
Second Sharmajis Statement : It is 100% true in all castes including Brahmins once but not now.
Stories like," Karuthamma " was very common in many villages of those days. (up to even 1980s).That is why our present generation is suffering for want of girls.
During our ancestors days we had seen in many families and even in some brahmin families too,many people had Two Wifes .(Periya Veedu and Chinna Veedu).
but now Single Veedu kidaikka namma boys Romba Kashta Paduranga...
Present Generation is really struggling for girls to marry now because of the back effect of those days just as Sharma ji told earlier.

 

[RVR]

Sri RVR,

Selective abortion was wrong. Animal killing in the name of 'sacrifice' is wrong. Two wrongs can not be compared so as to say one is better than other. Two wrongs will always amount two wrongs only; they will not cancel each other. I am careful, not to mention any names here.

Domesticated animal population can always be controlled by desexing method. Kindly don't mistake me, please. By all means, we should discuss this topic; but we should never condone such religion based killings. You did not say anything condoning such henious acts.

If we can discuss further on the selective abortion, I request the moderators to shift the discussions to a different thread.

I condemn both selective abortion as well as animal sacrifice

All the best

 

[kunjuppu]

unable to read the article on seeing the ghastly photo itself. I don't know whether I am only one or so unable to read/see such a "cruelty to core" pictures. By the by what are we aiming to do by publishing such links???.

drs,

i think articles like this opens our eyes of our community. especially, to those of us, who have a rather pompous attitude about our 'customs'.

hinduism exists because of diversity. animal sacrifice is common in the rural areas. personally i would not do it. but i probably would go to the same temples, worship the same God.

let us accept pluralism as part of our heritage too.

i think it is very appropriate, especially like that iyengar case which was posted in this forum a few weeks ago ie the ones who have no hesitation in ordering ஒத்திப்போ to the rest of human folks in the name of மடி & சுத்தம், and their apologizers in this forum, who think that this should be supported, and represent it as a case of brahmin bashing.

let us come down a few steps mentally, morally and physically, so that when we bend down, our heads are no longer in the clouds, and we can see our feet is.

thank you.

 

[pvraman]

Tomorrow is a holiday for me because here people celebrate Eid al-Adah "Festival of Sacrifice". Yesterday they were fasting. When I asked, if they don't fast they will commit sin(!). I wonder if Nepal follows the ancient Hinduism, and how close muslims have the same and in thanks giving day a turky slaugtering day! very close too.

When I was working in Barjora, Banukura, WBengal, I often watched a line of "bulls and cows (சோனி-ஒல்லியான)" stretching more than a km, walking to Bangladesh for slaughtering.
--------------------------------------------
I think they should identify themselves with some jathi or religion to escape from this.

 

[pvraman]

As for as I know there was never shortage of girls in our communities. I found always more girls than boys in any given agraharam. hmm...

Nowadays, too, people are equally happy to have female babies. I don't know is there a real shortage now?. May be a shortage for rich girls?!?

 

[kunjuppu]

Sow. Sri. Renukakarthikayan,

Killing of animals does take place in the abattoirs around the world; but they are not done in the name of religion. In the link provided by Sri. Suryakasyaypa, an aimless whole scale buthcring of animals (the flesh will go to waste, for sure) in the name of religion.

.

raghy,

the hindus of bali (indonesia) also indulge in animal sacrifice.

so do the buddhists of south east asia and korea (killing buffalo with one swipe over the head )

you can be assured, that the meat will not go waste. even the priest gets his share. so i was told by a relative of mine, who visited the hindu temples of bali.

we can presume, that nepal being a poor country, the meat will be consumed, and maybe even by the priest.

animals sacrificed in our rural areas and also in the சேரி near where i grew up, were eaten. nothing wasted.

ps. my friends used to run to see these sacrifices. much to my sorrow, my mother would prevent me from going there. but just a few minutes after the sacrifice, everything would be cleaned up, and only blood stains remained in front of the altar.

 

[kunjuppu]

Dear Raghy,
thank you for your reply.
Sathya Sai Baba has mentioned that its not the animal which has to be sacrificed but the animal qualities in us(the Pashu in us) that needs to be sacrificed.
The Horse sacrifice can be explained like this.
Have you observed a Horse?
at any one time it can not keep still.Some bodily part or the other will be moving, tail,ear, leg, face.
The horse is by nature a restless animal.
The horse symbolises the restless nature of the human mind and its this restlessness which needs to be sacrificed and not the animal.

renu,

not sure how we can separate the animal from its qualities.

i do not know why sai baba or such life denigrate animals. by and large, compared to man, animals are harmless.

they kill only when there is a need. they eat what they kill. they do not steal, commit adultery or go greedy. have you ever seen a fat animal in the wild. they just eat what they need.

regard to horse sacrifce, it is much more elaborate than that, i think. from what little i have read, there is much eroticism and sex associated with it. i am quite sure that the ancient hindus had tons of wisdom to justify all this. also, i do not think, the modern hindus should imitate it.

re kanchi mutt saying that animal sacrifices were ok in the old age, there is nothing we can do to deny proven historical fact. seldom do we acknowledge the tempering influence of buddhism in our lives.

we name our children gautam or siddhartha, have buddha in our kolu padi and that is it. we can thank buddha for vegetarianism and our pacifistic nature. i think so.

recently, there was a rumour, that a couple of years ago, kanchi mutt presided over a animal sacrifice yagna in kumbakonam. i don't know how far that is true. if it were, i would say that it is only in keeping with our ancient traditions. nothing wrong with that.

 

[kunjuppu]

Can any one tell that between 1965 to 1975, many parents had scaned their babies and made abortion due to Female kids ?....

Sisu kolai yai vida ithu perusaa ?...

On god's creation, there are certain beleives and customs, which are performed in different countries and continents.....

think on the contrary.... If these are allowed as it is...like goat, sheep, hen, fishes, cow, buffallo, dog..... etc.. are not killed by some reason or other, one fine morning, we will not be able to live and all will kill us...

Its GOD's creation, that one should depend on others and its way to live in this world....

We shall not bother on these things.... THIS IS MY OWN COMMENT....

thanks......

swami, once again, in my mind, you have proved, that you are wise beyond your years.

i agree with your sentiments 101% here. let people be.

on the other hand, personally i know folks, even here in canada, our own community, who aborted baby female baby.

the couple tried to keep it quiet. the husband did not want the baby. so the lady went alone to the abortionist and had it removed.
the lady being a good friend of my wife, came to our house for consolation.

the guy's mother, who was visiting them from india, let it out in her anger, during a get together. but she did not blame her son. only the daughter in law.

as a religion, we seem to have no hesitation in aborting fetuses.

also, we have literally screwed ourselves with taking family planning beyond our replacement rate. talk of wisdom and விவேகம் gone wild !!!!

 

[renuka]

Dear Raghy,
I am not a learned person either but one who wants to learn. Thank you for your replies and inputs.
Its a holiday here on 27/11/09 & 28/11/09 for Eid Ul Adha(Aidiladha as its called here in Malaysia).
Will only be free to browse through forum on 30/11/09.

Ekam -- one
Sat--- truth
Viprah --plural for learned ones
Bahuda-- many/multiple/several
Vadanti-- plural for spoken

roughly translated as "Truth is One describesd as many by the learned"
or sometimes even explained as" God is one but wise men call Him in many names"

Dear raghy one more thing, knowledge can be found in anybody whether from the village or from the city.

Didnt the Ex President of India Shri Abdul Kalam a scientist par excellence hail from a village too?