God Exists

[C RAVI]

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Any one can do pooja Yamaka Sir (as you have stated in your post #24). Even a rapist can do pooja after raping a girl to protect him from litigations. If pooja can give a person what he/she wants, than anyone can do anything Sir. If so, than what’s the challenge of humans to be a human, irrespective of what he/she has and what not?

If we mere humans could identify God in his physical form and prove his existence and strength, optically, objectively, subjectively, practically, logically and affirmatively, this world of human survival would come to cease.

People with sheer will can learn science and technology and showcase the technological achievements. But no common man in this era, with sheer will can search and identify God (like those days’ maharishis, gnyaanis, mahathmaas). We are ready to do hard work to succeed for materialistic advancements and luxury, as that's the motive of almost all the humans on this Earth. Can we expect people to leave all these and go to jungles, go in isolation and search for God with true bakthi and belief to find him, and if could succeed, to make declaration with scientific backing?

This yuga is for the people to achieve materialistic gratifications, pleasures of all sort, accumulation of money, power & pride and the capability to prove oneself as successful “I Specialist”. Belief in God and spiritual inclination is the challenge imposed on humans, surviving in this world of fantasy.

Presence of God cannot be testified and approved of its authenticity by laboratory research and findings. Scientific findings are to achieve comfort, luxury and for anything that can satisfy humans. But cannot be for discovering God. The same science is the gift of God for both better construction and worst destruction of human survival, in this Kali Yoga.

Life and death is in the hands of God as per one’s destiny. There are many cases where no symptoms could be found of any severe diseases and people die despite of medical treatment. There are many cases where patients have survived, though Drs have absolutely withdrawn hopes, and finally accepted it as a Medical miracle. Science can achieve anything but cannot overrule the Supreme Power ever. Humans can beat the drums of their success, but can never beat the Super Natural Powers (GOD).

Our tongue is under our control and we can use it as and when we want. Similarly our brain is under control that needs highest realization to identify God and personally approve of his existence.


God can be identified only in a subtle form, by a subtle body. A gross physical brain cannot discover God.

 

[C RAVI]

AA.. alright, you are so much convinced so.. so,. why dont you prove HIS non existent, with all your academic, scientific, statistical claims.. why just end with this off the collar statements?

BB. another atheist Stalin/Lenin said , 'Kill em all'.. on what basis you are going to condemn him, of you being an atheist? from where you are going to get/refer validated roots, for your claim?

we are not going circular here!

Dear Shiv,

We can't expect non believers to prove sceintifically the existence of God. For them it would be like making fun of them, asking them to prove that..

To which direction, the lights glowing out of "each" of the five wicks of a lamp, are spreading?

The believers of God would say that, its unidentifiable and would understand that there are things beyond human experiences..The non believers would say, they can not waste their time in laboratory and answer for a stupid question, that is just raised as "Vidhandaavaatham"

 

[Yamaka]

Any one can do pooja Yamaka Sir (as you have stated in your post #24). Even a rapist can do pooja after raping a girl to protect him from litigations. If pooja can give a person what he/she wants, than anyone can do anything Sir. If so, than what’s the challenge of humans to be a human, irrespective of what he/she has and what not?

If we mere humans could identify God in his physical form and prove his existence and strength, optically, objectively, subjectively, practically, logically and affirmatively, this world of human survival would come to cease.

People with sheer will can learn science and technology and showcase the technological achievements. But no common man in this era, with sheer will can search and identify God (like those days’ maharishis, gnyaanis, mahathmaas). We are ready to do hard work to succeed for materialistic advancements and luxury, as that's the motive of almost all the humans on this Earth. Can we expect people to leave all these and go to jungles, go in isolation and search for God with true bakthi and belief to find him, and if could succeed, to make declaration with scientific backing?

This yuga is for the people to achieve materialistic gratifications, pleasures of all sort, accumulation of money, power & pride and the capability to prove oneself as successful “I Specialist”. Belief in God and spiritual inclination is the challenge imposed on humans, surviving in this world of fantasy.

Presence of God cannot be testified and approved of its authenticity by laboratory research and findings. Scientific findings are to achieve comfort, luxury and for anything that can satisfy humans. But cannot be for discovering God. The same science is the gift of God for both better construction and worst destruction of human survival, in this Kali Yoga.

Life and death is in the hands of God as per one’s destiny. There are many cases where no symptoms could be found of any severe diseases and people die despite of medical treatment. There are many cases where patients have survived, though Drs have absolutely withdrawn hopes, and finally accepted it as a Medical miracle. Science can achieve anything but cannot overrule the Supreme Power ever. Humans can beat the drums of their success, but can never beat the Super Natural Powers (GOD).

Our tongue is under our control and we can use it as and when we want. Similarly our brain is under control that needs highest realization to identify God and personally approve of his existence.


God can be identified only in a subtle form, by a subtle body. A gross physical brain cannot discover God.

Dear Ravi Sir:

1. Please tell me whether normal people with "bhakti" offer poojas and prayers everyday or not? Let's not go to the "rapist", for he may be an outlier in our discussion.

2. Why would this world of human survival come to cease, if the (existent) God listens to the devotees?

3. Most people of "bhakti" believe that God exists to listen to their sorrows and sufferings and to do "whatever possible" to alleviate them... do you agree or not?

4. I don't know much about all this Yuga arguments here.. the devotees go to God to get some answer to their day to day problems..which can be material or health or name/fame or whatever. Why can't the (existent) God listen to their heart-felt prayers?

Here, there are many well educated practitioners of Science and Technology.. they have the luxury and mental bombast to think in detail about their mental construct - the God; with their verbal bombast they can twist and turn arguments to prove or disprove someone else' argument... that's their pastime.. that's their Civil Right... I am not saying anything about their mental exercise.

(Except I may mutter and murmur "why people of Science and Technology pander to the superstition of God and Destiny?")

However, our proverbial man with the long hair cited in post #1, is negligent to not to go to a barber because he spent too much of his time praying God for whatever he expected from HIM.

Alas, this man did not get his prayers answered by the (non existent) God!

Cheers.

ps. A non-Believer has no obligation whatsoever to prove or disprove anything; it's the duty of Believers to come up with tangible ways to prove their case. As a non-Believer, I am a very simple person as I was born naturally; I didn't accept the arguments of artificiality of Religions and their Gods... the burden is upon the Believers to show to the world of their knowledge and existence of their Gods. Peace.

 

[DrBarani]

If we 'recognise the possibility' of existence of something, then we tend to affirm the possibility. We tend to work on proving the existence.
Cheers!

A proof by definition demonstrating consistency with respect to certain preset boundary conditions. Those boundary conditions are personal choices.

Even in mathematics the boundary conditions of 0 and infinity are assumed. You can't "prove" the existence of infinity. Infinity is a necessary evil even in number theory, just so the rest of the real axis can be ordered inside that boundary. Mathematics is based on axioms. A Field is built on ordered pairs, where the ordering is a set of axioms. All those axioms are personal choices. This is why there are infinite types of Fields.

Science is like a football game. There are preset football rules made from personal choices. You play within those rules and score. That doesn't mean one played without rules and limitations.

 

[sravna]

There are basically two sets of people. The first recognize truth in a personal way and the other through external evidence or proofs. Generally the former believe in religion and the latter only in science. It is the latter who ask for proof for existence of God while for the former such a proof is not necessary at all.

btw, how could order such as intelligence be born out of disorder unless it is in the natural affinity for such things to happen. Things come together so that this order be cretaed and get perfected. God is someone who is perfect order.

 

[kunjuppu]

i somehow have the strange feeling, that believers, are sort of insecure, that they appear to insist that 'belief and only belief' is the right way.

in reality, i would have thought otherwise.

i believe. but i dont care, or bother, if my brother unbelieves. it is his business.

is the world not big enough for both of us kind?

there should be no debate about this topic. right?

 

[Nara]

A wonderful story : "GOD Exists"... "Ah, barbers DO exist! What happens is, people do not come to me. "Exactly!- affirmed the customer. "That's the point! GOD, too exist!

Ha, the lesson of this story is, God is like a barber, if you go to him and pay him his fees, God will do what is expected of him, like a barber who, if approached and paid his due will give you a hair-cut or shave or whatever.

A corollary to this story is, like a barber, if you don't pay his fees, God will not grant you what you want which is very much within his powers to grant. What kind of a God is this god?

C. Ravi's "Like" not withstanding, which is ubiquitous anyway, this is one of the silliest logic I have ever heard to assert belief in god. Hope you guys can do better than this in the future.

Cheers!

 

[renuka]

Sravna,

you wrote:

God is someone who is perfect order.

​

God is beyond dualities.To say God is perfect that means there is still some amount of imperfection that exists "outside of God" to compare and contrast with.
Doesnt your statement not go along the lines of Advaita?​

​

 

[renuka]

i somehow have the strange feeling, that believers, are sort of insecure, that they appear to insist that 'belief and only belief' is the right way.

in reality, i would have thought otherwise.

i believe. but i dont care, or bother, if my brother unbelieves. it is his business.

is the world not big enough for both of us kind?

there should be no debate about this topic. right?

Kunjs,

Not all believers feel that only their way is the right way and others should take the highway.

I feel everyone has their own believes be it Atheist or Theist.

An atheist might believe in himself and life as just a sequence of events.

A theist might believe in himsef too and also view life as a sequence of events but he attributes everything to God as the underlying reality.

Both actually look as if they are in the either end of the spectrum but in reality they are actually just the either side of the same coin.

And no one side is greater than the other as both in concert give value to the Coin.

 

[sravna]

Sravna,

you wrote:

God is beyond dualities.To say God is perfect that means there is still some amount of imperfection that exists "outside of God" to compare and contrast with.
Doesnt your statement not go along the lines of Advaita?​

​

When perfection is achieved you see that you are God. It is realizing self or knowing brahman. Renuka, how is it not in line with advaita?

 

[Nara]

To me, God exists. Why?

1. He is like my master. That underlines the need to be humble.
2. He gives me moral support in times of distress.
3. He would keep quiet even when I complain
4. He is the one Whom I can approach anytime anywhere

Siva, You have stated at the outset this is your view, one upon which there cannot be any debate. I understand it and respect it.

In a similar vain, I am going to present my view, but, I welcome any debate or counter argument.

[1] You say God is your master, that is fine, but you don't need a god to be humble. When you look at the vastness of what is out there and how little even the smartest amongst us understands, humility is not optional. In other words, you don't need a god to be humble,.

[2] He gives you moral support, that is fine too, but such moral support can be found without this delusional belief in an imaginary entity. However, I can't really find any fault if you can't let go off your security blanket.

[3] Of course he would keep quiet, an imaginary entity will complain only if the delusion is a serious psychological condition, I am glad he doesn't complain to you .

[4] Of course you can approach him anytime anywhere, after all he is there in your head, lodged there by the culture.

BTW, the reference to flying spaghetti monster is modeled after Bertrand Russel's flying tea pot circling the sun. These are to counter the argument that one cannot reject the possibility of the existence of god -- so is the possibility that a spaghetti monster or a celestial tea pot is not circling the sun, something that cannot be proved wrong.

Anyone who claims there is a god who can be perceived or understood outside what is claimed to be a binary logic, then, to them I say, go ahead and make your case, don't just make vague claims and accuse the skeptics as somehow flawed. If you have no persuasive argument, then all your claims about god is nothing but a four letter word that starts with an "s" or "c".

Cheers!

 

[sravna]

Shri Nara,

I do not understand why people want to reject the notion of God. Since we identify with God as someone who has the ideal qualities, we are in fact rejecting the possibility of humans achieving such ideal qualities. After all hinduism does say that everyone is a potential God but at any point varies in the extent of ideal qualities they possess. We might very likely have not met an ideal person in our life and may likely never but that is because achieving perfection is the culminating point of human development and no wonder such persons are the rarest of rare ones.

We would have heard about incidents which show that mind indeed can exhibit powers that we associate with the power of God. Thus it indicates that along with the ideal qualities come the omnipotence which we attribute to God. That is the reason I say we cannot dismiss what we have read about the powers of the ancient sages as imaginary descriptions. They show to us what ideal human being would be like and what they can achieve.

 

[renuka]

When perfection is achieved you see that you are God. It is realizing self or knowing brahman. Renuka, how is it not in line with advaita?

When perfection is achieved we really cannot "see" that we are God cos by saying so that means there is still some amount of dualities cos we see ourselves as a seperate entity from Brahman.
Its still the presence of Tat(Brahman) and Tvam(ourself).

In reality Brahman verily is.
Ekam Advaita Brahman and not Aham Brahman Pashyaami.(I see Brahman).

So that way there is still some amount of qualified non dualism i feel in what you wrote.

 

[sravna]

Ok Renuka I stand corrected

So shall we say once we see we are brahman we become one with brahman

 

[DrBarani]

Anyone who claims there is a god who can be perceived or understood outside what is claimed to be a binary logic, then, to them I say, go ahead and make your case, don't just make vague claims

Football vs Cricket

You play football, I play cricket. In football if you kick the ball outside the boundary, it is bad. In Cricket if you hit the ball outside the boundary, it is good!

See the difference? If you play football and ask cricketers to explain cricket to you in terms of football rules, that is not possible. Please learn Cricket rules.

Anyone wanting to debate must please catch up some concepts on multilevel logic functions, Syad Logic, logic of doubt, quantum logic, Nash Equilibrium, Toffoli-Fredkin gate, and several related concepts. In a nutshell, you must convincingly realize that the logic state "False" is not the same as "Not True". If you cross that stage, you will know the binary logic deduction of "there is no god because it can't be proven" is a circular and self-referential argument.

 

[renuka]

Ok Renuka I stand corrected

So shall we say once we see we are brahman we become one with brahman

I have to borrow a line from Purusha Suktam to answer this.

"Having countless heads,eyes,legs,manisfested everywhere and beyond the scope of any limited method of comprehension."



So when we "see" Brahman its His "eyes" we "see" with.

 

[sravna]

In my view it doesn't make sense to offer proof for the existence of God. The concept of God should come from within. See, God himself would have wanted some uncertainty regarding his existence. Because once it is conclusively proven to everyone that God exists then people would start acting out of fear. There would be no real learning. God I would suspect doesn't want it to work that way. So if you people think that God would reveal himself or let conclusive proofs be offered for his existence, that is not going to happen. There is enough evidence in the physical world though concealed for people who put in the effort to understand God. But they have to do it themselves.

 

[Brahin]

Adjustment with right people is always better than arguments with wrong people & Meaningful Silence is always better than Meaningless Words..!

So its better to let people have their own opinions and not try to prove or disprove one another.

 

[Haridasa Siva]

Siva, You have stated at the outset this is your view, one upon which there cannot be any debate. I understand it and respect it.

In a similar vain, I am going to present my view, but, I welcome any debate or counter argument.

[1] You say God is your master, that is fine, but you don't need a god to be humble. When you look at the vastness of what is out there and how little even the smartest amongst us understands, humility is not optional. In other words, you don't need a god to be humble,.

[2] He gives you moral support, that is fine too, but such moral support can be found without this delusional belief in an imaginary entity. However, I can't really find any fault if you can't let go off your security blanket.

[3] Of course he would keep quiet, an imaginary entity will complain only if the delusion is a serious psychological condition, I am glad he doesn't complain to you .

[4] Of course you can approach him anytime anywhere, after all he is there in your head, lodged there by the culture.

BTW, the reference to flying spaghetti monster is modeled after Bertrand Russel's flying tea pot circling the sun. These are to counter the argument that one cannot reject the possibility of the existence of god -- so is the possibility that a spaghetti monster or a celestial tea pot is not circling the sun, something that cannot be proved wrong.

Anyone who claims there is a god who can be perceived or understood outside what is claimed to be a binary logic, then, to them I say, go ahead and make your case, don't just make vague claims and accuse the skeptics as somehow flawed. If you have no persuasive argument, then all your claims about god is nothing but a four letter word that starts with an "s" or "c".

Cheers!

I mostly agree with you. I am really not sure whether God exists. But a belief in him suits me in the sense, I have a moral fear that He is watching me. It helps me act with humility and in moral ways. I attribute my "successes", if any, to God and my failures, which are plenty,to myself.
Similarly, in times of distress, the humans might not be willing to listen to my story. It agains suits me to believe in Him and to unload my heart. And that is the case when I am upset. When there is no one to blame, I can always blame Him and he would still keep quiet.

So, it is more out of convenience - to lead me in the right path and to give me comfort - that I say God exists.


P.S.: The 'Like' I gave for your previous post does not apply to the comments about Ravi.

 

[renuka]

I mostly agree with you. I am really not sure whether God exists. But a belief in him suits me in the sense, I have a moral fear that He is watching me. It helps me act with humility and in moral ways. I attribute my "successes", if any, to God and my failures, which are plenty,to myself.
Similarly, in times of distress, the humans might not be willing to listen to my story. It agains suits me to believe in Him and to unload my heart. And that is the case when I am upset. When there is no one to blame, I can always blame Him and he would still keep quiet.

So, it is more out of convenience - to lead me in the right path and to give me comfort - that I say God exists.


P.S.: The 'Like' I gave for your previous post does not apply to the comments about Ravi.

Dear Hari,

What you just wrote is the classical example of the Sakha Relationship with God where one feels God is his/her close friend.

 

[ShivKC]

the necessity of proof always lies with the person who lays charges. its an universal law. this site is named as tb.com, keeping in mind it generally represents the members who believe in vedas and god. when one comes here and lays a charge that god does not exits, then its for the atheist who has to prove.

taking it in a larger angle, in our country, 95% appx would be believing god for few millenium. so its the responsibility of the minority to prove the charge.

for eg, tomorrow, one stakes a claim that an extra terrestrial abducted him, took him to space-time and dropped back home after 3 days, the responsibility is on him to prove his space journey. you cannot go back and tell the 99.9999% (majority)of the people to disprove his space fight.

god may or many not not exist, but majority in the world believe in god in one or other form. so its up to the atheists, who lay charges that religion is bad/god doesn't exit etc, to prove their claim.

 

[C RAVI]

Sri Yamaka,

My views...

Dear Ravi Sir:

1. Please tell me whether normal people with "bhakti" offer poojas and prayers everyday or not? Let's not go to the "rapist", for he may be an outlier in our discussion.

- Yes, people do offer poojas and prayers everyday. What's wrong in it if one believes and do pooja? But if one thinks that his pooja can get him what he wants without any sort of efforts, than that's his/her ignorance. There are many person, who don't do everyday pooja. But they believe in God and visit temples whenever they feel like. What for a person is doing pooja, what is he expecting from his pooja and what his understanding of pooja are all that matters.

[/QUOTE]
2. Why would this world of human survival come to cease, if the (existent) God listens to the devotees?[/QUOTE]


- Beacuse, than no soul would refine itself in a true sense. There would not be any sense of real human survival. There would not be any give and take between humans in any form. There would be no sense of hunger, anger, thirst, lust, materialistic desires, hardships, hard work, failure, success etc. Only with the presence of these senses, the natural order of Human life moves and the soul got to balance them, achieve higher realization and get liberated.

If God listens and grants to every one what they want, than the greedy humans would not be really humans (greedy in general sense like "I", "Mine", "My Self"). They will be transforming themselves into Demons.

The purpose of attaining balance, righteousness and other refined qualities of human/soul can no way be tested, achieved and granted liberation.

Above all, if God could be proved, God could be seen and could initiate one to one conversation, each human soul would get liberated spontaneously.


[/QUOTE]
3. Most people of "bhakti" believe that God exists to listen to their sorrows and sufferings and to do "whatever possible" to alleviate them... do you agree or not?[/QUOTE]


- I would certainly agree.

God can never be bribed. God can never be lured. God can never be black mailed. If people do things blindly with all their ignorance, it doesn't mean that God doesn't exist.


[/QUOTE]
4. I don't know much about all this Yuga arguments here.. the devotees go to God to get some answer to their day to day problems..which can be material or health or name/fame or whatever. Why can't the (existent) God listen to their heart-felt prayers?[/QUOTE]


- Not a single human is naturally having patience, every one wants things to go as one wants. every one want to enjoy everything as easily as possible. The sufferings and pleasures, failures and success are only the senses of Humans. If we relieve our self from these emotions/senses, neither we have to pray, nor we have to feel distressed. And when we could achieve this, we are God. But how many of us could achieve that? Believers would pray God atleast to give them the strength to bear. And non believers (I can say non believers are those, who are emotionally strong, confident and believe only oneself and can't accept that things can be outside control and in control of some powers) would carry on their day to day life without prayers.

If God listen to their heart-felt prayers and grants what each one wants, I am sure, not a single person can achieve what he/she wants. People will be sick of what they have. Because what we want and what we want to give are all revolving around each one of us only.


[/QUOTE]
Here, there are many well educated practitioners of Science and Technology.. they have the luxury and mental bombast to think in detail about their mental construct - the God; with their verbal bombast they can twist and turn arguments to prove or disprove someone else' argument... that's their pastime.. that's their Civil Right... I am not saying anything about their mental exercise. [/QUOTE]


- Yes, its every one's civil right. Whether one is a educated practitioner of science and technology, have luxury and mental supremacy Or one is uneducated, poor and have no mental caliber to think and debate, its one's choice as what they want to think or believe about God and whether they need to pray him or not. And whether they need to prove and disapprove with each other or not.


[/QUOTE]
(Except I may mutter and murmur "why people of Science and Technology pander to the superstition of God and Destiny?")[/QUOTE]


- No need to pander to. It doesn't matter. Whether we believe in God or not, whether we are people of science and technology or people of ignorance and blind belief, God would continue to exist and would play the rule of the nature.

[/QUOTE]
However, our proverbial man with the long hair cited in post #1, is negligent to not to go to a barber because he spent too much of his time praying God for whatever he expected from HIM.[/QUOTE]


- The purpose of a moral story is to understand the purpose for which it's been told. A proverbial man with long hair needing haircut can be only a poor man, a beggar who couldn’t make money even to feed him. I don't think any one of us, reasonably having money for a descent life, would leave our hairs unattended by wasting time to ask something from God.

We would leave our hairs unattended and would be least bothered of its length and conditions, only if we want to spend years together in Tapasya to Find God, physically or subtly.

[/QUOTE]
Alas, this man did not get his prayers answered by the (non existent) God!


Cheers.[/QUOTE]



- We can't conclude our self for sure as what the soul deserves, what was the aim of his prayers, what all are his intentions and can not know who was he before and what he would be later


[/QUOTE]
ps. A non-Believer has no obligation whatsoever to prove or disprove anything; it's the duty of Believers to come up with tangible ways to prove their case. As a non-Believer, I am a very simple person as I was born naturally; I didn't accept the arguments of artificiality of Religions and their Gods... the burden is upon the Believers to show to the world of their knowledge and existence of their Gods. Peace.[/QUOTE]

- Neither believer nor non-believer need to hold obligations to prove or disapprove anything to each other. The true believers and who understands what is God, what is the purpose of God, what is the purpose of human life, would not bother to hold obligations to show to the world of their knowledge. They will just air their views and would not be imposing their rules to non-believers and would not consider them different to themselves

 

[C RAVI]

C. Ravi's "Like" not withstanding, which is ubiquitous anyway, this is one of the silliest logic I have ever heard to assert belief in god. Hope you guys can do better than this in the future.

Cheers!

Dear Nara,

C.Ravi's ubiquitous presense and his click of "Like" may be sensible to many and nonsensible to many. Since C.Ravi is not a Scholar/Authority here and he is just an individual with his veiws and opinion like any other member, both the parties need not to substantiant the withstanding nature of his clicking "Like"

The logic of the story that Shri Brahin has posted here is not for the highly educated, talented, scientific brains, but for a common layman (barber in that story).

For advanced, qualified professionals, professors, highly intellectuals and highly successful people, who all belong to the category of non-believers, no story can convince the existance of God and the purpose of his existence.

 

[renuka]

i think it is tougher to be an atheist.

look at all the ribbings and taunt that is heaped on them.

even though i am a believer, i think atheists are just like us ie humans. with another faith - atheism - no different than hindus or muslims or xtians. just another group.

no need to gang up on them.

Kunjs,

I feel most of the while its Atheist who gang up on Theist asking them for evidence of the existence of God.
I am not talking on behalf of the Theist camp but just a neutral observer now.
See in this thread just say if no one had hinted that "Atheist act cool" I am 100% sure the self proclaimed Atheists would have jumped in anyhow to ask for proof of existence of God.

See sometimes we come across websites that might not be our interest like for example some other deviant philosophy and we dont subscribe to it.Buts its not the case here.You sure do like all Theist threads.


But Kunjs tell me the truth I am sure when you saw the title of this thread you and a few others must have thought "Ok guys!! here I come."

See the best part of being an Atheist if that he/she cant life without the Theist.
Admit it dear..its a love hate relationship and its surely fun to read all this debates here.

 

[C RAVI]

P.S.: The 'Like' I gave for your previous post does not apply to the comments about Ravi.

I am glad to note your gentlemanly statement Sri Haridasa Siva. Thanks for your gesture. I appreciate your sense of respect and discipline..