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Formation of a separate UT for TN FCs

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I was browsing the website realitycheck.wordpress.com, and came across some postings by someone. Wonder if there is support for leading an agitation to have a separate Union Territory for Brahmans? Also, he mentioned things about Malaysia which sound exactly similar to what is happening in TN today, in terms of suppression of dominant Chinese and Malaysian Indians by quota-mad Bumiputra Malay natives. Please check the following posts, it is quite disturbing. I am wondering if the Malaysian Indians who are forced to come back to TN (most are Tamils), will realize that the same quota system is being practiced in TN also? As they say, you shall reap what you sow.


Modalities for the formation of a UT

I wonder if it is possible to discuss the modalities for the formation of a new state, the state constitution, location and other aspects in a separate section on this website.

I think it is time to debate what is the future of TN Brahmans, and how we can survive as a community in the upcoming times of the Ramadosses and Marans. It may be at least worth throwing out the possibility of demanding a separate Union territory similar to Pondicherry, in the next 20 years or so. How much support can we get and are there any constitutional hurdles against this. If Tambrams form their own UT, they can declare themselves as OBCs in their state and free themselves forever from this suffocating reservation menace.

Also, the state will grant full facilities to overseas citizens of Tambram origin so that no matter what happens in the world, Tambrams will always have a place they can call home, and will always be welcome. Even if the land granted is barren, I believe the enterprise and determination of Tambrams will make it a very prosperous state in just a couple of decades. It can be a similar situation to Israel. They can actually turn a desert into an oasis.

I believe all other solutions are only short-term measures, and this is the only long-term solution to save what is left of our community. Any help along these directions will be appreciated.
tam bams come in all varieties.what is the incentive for the affluent to start such an agitation?many brahmanas are entrepreneurs who have access to cheap and skilled labour and a big market.many of us have cheap domestic labour available.Those who are in foreign countries,why should they care?

what about the cherished concept of "Bharata varsha"

many temple priests and even panchangakaras(those who cater to non brahmins) will lose their livelihood.

sorry to queer the pitch.what about differences between iyers and iyengars,numerous sub castes,,sringeri-kanchi...

Things may not be so bad after karu.
The lure of the comfort zone is very powerful

Having a separate state is one way to escape the oncoming reservation wave. As you may have read recently, the dravidian parties want each state to be able to fix its own education and employment and taxation policies. They are demanding the constitution be entirely re-written for that purpose. This is final proof that democracy can easily turn into mobocracy, particularly in a country like India. One way to escape a mobocracy is to form a mobocracy of one's own.

Imagine for a moment that the entire world was ruled by the UN. Would there be a concept of a West? There would be equality of poverty everywhere, with a standard of living somewhere between sub-Saharan Africa and Europe. In fact it would most likely be a standard of living close to that of India. Remember that just 100 years ago, the population of the planet was just over a billion.

You can also look at the stark difference between Israel and its neighbors, Singapore and its neighbors, North Korea and South Korea, Spain and Morocco and so on. All of them had shared cultures with their neighbors. Once the repressed elite decided to break free, their true potential was unleashed and they took off. Also, if a population is oppressed by the elites, then the repressed people, like European peasants who fled to America, can also achieve their true potential. Freedom and equality of opportunity is key.

Brahmans have to think globally, just like the Jews. There are more Jews outside Israel than inside. However, you will find many Jews who live outside still support Israel, and they care very deeply about it. For Israelis, the world is their market, cheap labor can be obtained by opening factories in other states or countries. I am definitely against the concept of domestic help; having someone else clean my vessels, underwear, and toilets is repugnant to me.

A Union territoy can enshrine in the state constitution that there will be equality of opportunity to everyone. By making everyone as OBC, it can escape central legislation also. It is also still a part of India. When one can form states like Chattisgarh, Jharkand etc based on tribal representation, what is wrong in having a separate UT for Tambrams? Andhra Pradesh is shortly going to be broken up into Telangana, Rayalaseema and Central Andhra, primarily based on tribal and historical reasons. And this is happening peacefully, many Andhra politicians have come around to accepting this.

Tambram UT can support its temple priests and the panchangakaras can make Panchangams for people in other states also. With modern construction techniques and the support of overseas Tambrams, many temples can be constructed in a short few years.

Tambram UT can adopt a state constitution which guarantees each subsect of Tambram, Iyer, Iyengar etc, full freedom of worship and control over religious institutions like Matths. However, when it comes to public facilities, public education, employment equality of opportunity will be maintained, and everyone will be treated equally.

I had just proposed the idea of a separate UT to gauge people's reactions to the proposal. In engineering terms, I have found that Indian people in general have a high coefficient of friction. It takes a lot of effort to get people moving, everyone falls into a certain comfort zone, and as always there are hopes that things will get better on their own. The decline of Indian civilization in part can be attributed to the above high mu, since warm weather and fertile land made Indian people soft. In Africa, because of the abundance of pasture and game, hot climate, and dense forests, people did not progress beyond the bronze age once they had spears.

In a perverse sense, I see reservations as having helped people like me, because otherwise I would have been happy graduating from some college and landing up into a govt job. Being forced into another direction, has led to an enormous appreciation of the necessity to excel and to push oneself to achieve the very best.

The future of Tambrams will depend on how soft they become as a group, their resistance to anticipating any incipient threats and formulating a plan for change, and their resultant coefficient of friction in terms of action. It should be interesting to see in another 50-60 years, if the community has yielded and sunk into the morass of the communist milieu, or gets up enough collective will to make a break for it and take their shot at the top.
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tam bams come in all varieties.what is the incentive for the affluent to start such an agitation?many brahmanas are entrepreneurs who have access to cheap and skilled labour and a big market.many of us have cheap domestic labour available.Those who are in foreign countries,why should they care?

This apathy and lack of political organization, I think, will be the biggest problem.

what about the cherished concept of "Bharata varsha"

This shouldn't be any different in a UT than it is today.

many temple priests and even panchangakaras(those who cater to non brahmins) will lose their livelihood.

Good point. More than just losing jobs, a lot of temples are considered very sacred. What happens to them?

sorry to queer the pitch.what about differences between iyers and iyengars,numerous sub castes,,sringeri-kanchi...

What happens to these differences when iyers, iyengars, ... migrate to other states in India or even outside and live beside one another? I think it can be arranged to maintain status quo in the mooted UT. :)

Things may not be so bad after karu.

There is always hope. ;-)

I think the idea of a UT is good. After all, if a joint family doesn't work out then it might be best to just split up into different smaller families with each deciding what is in their best interests. The problem in TN is that there are different groups with conflicting interests and one groups interests are being compromised in the favour of another. In that case, why not give that group the right to decide its own future? The states were reorganized on the basis of languages because it was thought that language was a significant divider of interests even if there were other commonalities. However it doesn't stand to reason that two people will have the same goals just because they speak the same tongue. In this case there might be other division of interests and one does not see why these should be given any less importance over language in terms of defining a state.

The bigger question though is, is there a political will among the brahmins themselves? Even if political will be developed is there a chance in the current political situation where everyone is vying for minority and bc votes that any political party will actually want to be seen supporting it?
only solution for us to survive

I like the idea , but to make it practical our community must be more participative. for simple reason,How many people from our community registered in this site ? . First We have to join hands with our community people in neighboring states.Second we have to show our presence. We have to be more vocal in raising issues publicly. For example in lot of TV shows make fun of brahmins, just for the sake, even though its not related to show (SUN TV , vijay movies):flame: . We must have strong Legal group, to take legal action against them.
I will participate in whatever form so that next generation from our community can have better life:thumb:
Please note the following points.
1.Tamil brahmins are materially better off than ever before.This itself can loosen the 'traditional' bonds.Unlike the jews who were persecuted in several pogroms in many european countries,brahmanas face discrimination.This is felt most by middle classes who have a certain outlook on life.
2.A temple priest in srirangam and an IAS officer inhabit different worlds.There is no reason for a bhattacharya in srirangam to support this agitation,when he is favourably looked on by wealthy non brahmins.
3.infact,a bhattacharya in srirangam and a archaka in tiruchendur inhabit different worlds.
4.Why should industrialists like TVS,Cognisant Lakshminarayan who already employ thousands support this move?what is in it for them?
5.why should owners of Hindu,Dinamalar,vikatan support this new UT
6.Where will this new UT be located?It has to be either in Madras or Thanjavur,the only places with significant brahmana population?How can we make the centre or TN agree ?
7.A huge number of jews fled from many quarters to the 'chosen land'.There was great emotional appeal in the face of genocide.Brahmanas are doing OK(atleast for now).There was US,British support for Zionism.
8.Brahmanas,in the varna system,are the highest among the four varnas by virtue of their spirituality.This system is no doubt outmoded,but the difference from the jews is quite marked.
9.The well meaning proposal,for a separate UT,is not be dismissed.But all factors need to be considered.Ofcourse,no one is in a hurry to start agitating.In fact it is nice that people are voicing this demand openly.
10.Nor should we think that everone in the brahmin community is highly motivated or intelligent.There are many(perhaps including me) who are pretty happy with a humdrum life satisfied with the warm climate and plentiful food supply.One should not forget the thousands(?) of vaidikas who are absolutely uninterested.or even many loukikas(like tamizh samatvam) who are passionate about the tamizh language and tamizhnadu.

As I mentioned before, the difference between successful and failed societies is the lack of planning and discipline. When societies in the West talk of investigating global warming and its effects over a 100 years, make 50 year growth plans for infrastructure and economic trends, they must be on to something. In failed societies, politicians (indirectly the people) make plans till the next election. So eventually, society lurches from one crisis to another, always reacting and refusing to collectively look ahead and make logical choices.

So will the future of the Brahman community. Will there be enough collective strength and will power to make the change while there is still time, or will it just yield to mediocrity and eventual oblivion? Maybe the times are ok now, but will they always be so in the future? Will the pappan's predominate, or will the mrifans :) Why do I suddenly feel depressed?
i am unhappy that you feel depressed.It is motivated,foresighted and public spirited indviduals like you,who make the difference.I feel it is an idea,not to be dismissed outright,but one which has to be voiced.I was pointing out the present ground reality.
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