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Forgiveness

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prasad1

Well-known member
Forgiveness, by not forgiving a person, does this mean that you are not free. Our religion says that we must forgive. How do you forgive, if the person wilfully commits a crime or sin? Is it bad Karma not to forgive?

I think someone asked you this question before? It is not an insult, but I would like to know what religion you are talking about?
In Karma theory there is no forgiveness as far as I know.
 

amala

Well-known member
I think thats a very interesting question. I don't know if its so much bad karma if we don't forgive. But it is definitely a huge burdern for us to be carrying around with us. So i think its far easier to just forgive and forget, eventually. Just let it go and move on. The burden of unforgiveness can be very heavy IMHO. And God knows we have enough other worries, burdens and issues. Why carry more than necessary, right?
 

zebra16

Well-known member
Forgiveness, by not forgiving a person, does this mean that you are not free. Our religion says that we must forgive. How do you forgive, if the person wilfully commits a crime or sin? Is it bad Karma not to forgive?

I think this question is over-simplified. Are crime and sin identical? I think karma theory functions on pApAs and puNyAs and not crime and retribution or forgiveness. Are you equating "begrudging" as equivalent to forgiving?

Just let us take a very simple test case. I am knocked over by a motor-cyclist at zebra crossing, very unintentionally as the rider was in a rush. I appreciate his situation and as I am only mildly bruised, I forgive him (to use your phrase). But a traffic cop is at the crossing and books the motor-cyclist and say he has to pay a fine. My forgiving or begrudging him has no impact. So my act of forgiving is quite useless.
 
OP
OP
M
Hello Prasad
Nobody has asked me this question before, I am tamil. It is a sole searching question, when you forgive, does it make you feel better, or the person who sinned. I understand when you say there is no forgiveness as there is no Karma on your part. But if you forgive doe s this not cancel the sin committed.
 

ShivKC

Active member
one of the recent problem i noticed is, people often tend to forget that we are posting here in english (not sanskrit/tamil) and usage of any words like absolute justice/forgiveness/sin/hell is perceived with doubt, as if its an infiltration from another religion, possibly west.

sadest part is, few skip those useful words for fear of being borrowed from west, and loose the real juice whats already in hand... that's the pity

and am quite surprised to hear some one saying, 'forgiveness' is not a part of hinduism. if you know, Lord Krishna said in gita that forgiveness is one of the characteristics of one born for a divine state

have it read again, in English clip..


Addressing Dhritarashtra, Vidura said: "There is one only defect in forgiving persons, and not another; that defect is that people take a forgiving person to be weak. That defect, however, should not be taken into consideration, for forgiveness is a great power. Forgiveness is a virtue of the weak, and an ornament of the strong. Forgiveness subdues (all) in this world; what is there that forgiveness cannot achieve? What can a wicked person do unto him who carries the sabre of forgiveness in his hand? Fire falling on the grassless ground is extinguished of itself. And unforgiving individual defiles himself with many enormities. Righteousness is the one highest good; and forgiveness is the one supreme peace; knowledge is one supreme contentment; and benevolence, one sole happiness." (From the Mahabharata, Udyoga Parva Section XXXIII, Translated by Sri Kisari Mohan Ganguli).
 

suraju06

Well-known member
When some one commits a crime against you, he collects a karma point and he will have to eventually suffer the karma phalan. You against whom the crime was committed have two options. 1. forgive and forget. This option if chosen will save you a lot of tension. No punya is collected because of this action. 2. you can nurse a grudge and eventuaally take revenge which will result in your earning a karma point for the sin committed.

Your forgiving will not cancel the sin of the person who committed the sin. There is no system of blood-money in Hinduism.
 
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Raghy

Well-known member
Forgiveness, by not forgiving a person, does this mean that you are not free. Our religion says that we must forgive. How do you forgive, if the person wilfully commits a crime or sin? Is it bad Karma not to forgive?

Sri.Marvin Naidoo, Greetings.

For 'forgiveness' to happen, there should be someone who seeks 'forgiveness'. If someone offended me, I can not unilaterally forgive that someone. I could ingone the event; I could forget that event; but I can't effectively forgive the offender unless the offender seeks 'forgiveness'.

I don't think our religion ( I take it, Hinduism) says anyone to forgive or not to forgive. In fact, I don't think religion has anything to do with that.

To my understanding, the process of forgiving involves - A, who is offended or affected by B's actions ; B becomes aware that A is offended; B seeks a forgiveness (and hopefully stops the offending action and possibly compensates for the damage already done. otherwise, it can only be a mockery); then A forgives (for gets or not is a different matter).

Not to forgive can't be a bad deed. Unless forgiveness is sought, one can't even effectively forgive..... where does any bad karma comes in this picture?

Cheers!
 

amala

Well-known member
I think some cultures teach to forgive karma or no karma. Let us do our bit and forgive when/if it is sought, karma or no karma.
 

prasad1

Well-known member
IMO karma is a ledger account. You have debits and credits. There is no forgiveness involved or expected.
But like Amala said, it is better to forgive, that way there is less agitation in your mind. A calm mind is needed for meditation and focus, so it is good for you. If someone committed some action against you it is there karma, they need to worry about their action and the consequent Karma. Your forgiveness that does not affect their karma.
 

biswa

New member
While agreeing with all the good sentiments being discussed along with karma accounting etc, I have a practical question.

How does one forgive big incursions in practice? Take for example Israelite Jews driving out Palestinians from their homeland. Or the Chinese suppressing the Tibetan Buddhist religion. How can they forgive and move on? How can one forgive and forget the destruction of one's life, livelihood and civilization?
 

renuka

Well-known member
Actually when we forgive someone we are actually "forgiving" ourselves.

Each episode in life we go through leaves an imprint in our Chitta(Repository of memories) portion of the Antakarana(inner instrument).

When someone harms us in a certain way..the seeds of our reaction is sowed in our mind
At the first instance anyone feels bad when harmed or any loved one is harmed.
The first reaction is registered in the Manas(gross mind)..in Manas sometimes we do not "think" too rationally and might even react violently where you see many cases of Man slaughter when some one makes a person real angry or inflicts physical harm on them.

Ok..next stage is when our temper has cooled down..we use our Buddhi(intellect) to determine to react or not to react for a situation or plan for next mode of action..this is where also Viveka(discriminative faculty) comes in.

Some might decide to forgive and forget and some might plan revenge at the suitable moment.

When we forget a situation an accept it and move on we bear no hatred nor undue love to the person who harmed us..thats like being equiposed in all situations but that doesnt mean we cant take measures to prevent ourselves being harmed again.Prevention is better than Revenge.
 
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sarang

Well-known member
I don't think so. Forgiveness can be a self generated unilateral action; it is not necessary that the other person has to seek. He may not feel the need to ask for forgiveness and may repeat the same 'offence' to you or someone else. As amalaji said we cleanse our system by forgiveness. Why carry the mental burden and lose our sleep?

But this is not a general rule and not valid for all occasions. The nature and severity of the offence must also be considered.

Sri.Marvin Naidoo, Greetings.

For 'forgiveness' to happen, there should be someone who seeks 'forgiveness'. If someone offended me, I can not unilaterally forgive that someone. I could ingone the event; I could forget that event; but I can't effectively forgive the offender unless the offender seeks 'forgiveness'.

I don't think our religion ( I take it, Hinduism) says anyone to forgive or not to forgive. In fact, I don't think religion has anything to do with that.

To my understanding, the process of forgiving involves - A, who is offended or affected by B's actions ; B becomes aware that A is offended; B seeks a forgiveness (and hopefully stops the offending action and possibly compensates for the damage already done. otherwise, it can only be a mockery); then A forgives (for gets or not is a different matter).

Not to forgive can't be a bad deed. Unless forgiveness is sought, one can't even effectively forgive..... where does any bad karma comes in this picture?

Cheers!
 
OP
OP
M
Dear Zebra16

This is a very interesting angle, that you are mentioning. If someone commits a sin knowingly or unknowingly, it is still karma. So you are saying that forgiveness is just a feel good for a human. If you forgive it makes you feel good, and the person who has been forgiven feels that he has been freed from the sin, but the karma still remains. If that is the case then there are no second chances, if you committed the sin you pay the consequences. Interesting.
 

prasad1

Well-known member
Actually when we forgive someone we are actually "forgiving" ourselves.

Each episode in life we go through leaves an imprint in our Chitta(Repository of memories) portion of the Antakarana(inner instrument).

When someone harms us in a certain way..the seeds of our reaction is sowed in our mind
At the first instance anyone feels bad when harmed or any loved one is harmed.
The first reaction is registered in the Manas(gross mind)..in Manas sometimes we do not "think" too rationally and might even react violently where you see many cases of Man slaughter when some one makes a person real angry or inflicts physical harm on them.

Ok..next stage is when our temper has cooled down..we use our Buddhi(intellect) to determine to react or not to react for a situation or plan for next mode of action..this is where also Viveka(discriminative faculty) comes in.

Some might decide to forgive and forget and some might plan revenge at the suitable moment.

When we forget a situation an accept it and move on we bear no hatred nor undue love to the person who harmed us..thats like being equiposed in all situations but that doesnt mean we cant take measures to prevent ourselves being harmed again.Prevention is better than Revenge.

As usual very beautiful post.
 
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