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Foreigner's Agreement with our ancient predictions

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S.Chandrasekaran

Active member
In the temple God faces mostly East. Auspicious direction is East. Marriages and all auspicious functions are done facing East. Functions connected with death rituals, significantly are done with facing South.

Reference 1&2:
The principal Gods/ presiding deities of each direction (called the ashtadikpalar) are:

Northeast- Eeshanya- Ruled by Lord of all quarters or Eeshwara Siva (Religions,Luck and Faith)

East- Aditya- Ruled by Sun God - Aditya (Seeing the world)

Southeast- Agni- Ruled by Lord of Fire - Agni (Energy Generating)

South- Yama- Ruled by Lord of Death - Yama (Damaging)

Southwest- Pitru- Ruled by ancestors (History)

West- Varuna- Ruled by Lord of water (Physical)

Northwest- Vayu- ruled by Lord Of Winds (Advertisement)

North- Kubera- Ruled by Lord of Wealth (Finance)

Centre- Brahma- Ruled by Lord/Creator of the Universe (Desire)


Dr.Anthony Shieh.
 

kunjuppu

Well-known member
chandra,

what are you trying to say?

why is it so important that a white guy has to agree (or disagree for that matter) with our ancient predictions.

there is an entire thread in this forum, about westerner's praise for hinduism.

are we so pathetically insecure, that we need these praises, to shore our religion? cant we not stand on our own?

i am perplexed.

on one hand, we have foreign hating hindutva guys, for whom hindus, our ancestors, our scriptures cannot do any wrong. the fate of the dalits, is not our brahmins' fault. we did not invent the caste system. we were never privileged.

the caste system came with the british. heun tsang the chinese traveller was all lies. etc.. etc..

i am plain confused.
 

sangom

Well-known member
Shri Chandrasekharan,

In your OP there is nothing indicating any foreigner's praise for whatever has been written there. The name Dr.Anthony Shieh hangs loosely, imo.

Coming to East being the most auspicious direction, it was because the sun rises there and gives the daylight and it is commonsense to face the source of light when doing anything, including yagas, yajnas, writing, etc. Thus, East became the most auspicious of directions. But the concept of the eight diks seems to be based on the notion of a Flat rectangular or square earth, imo. Will it put our ancient concepts in a good light?

 

sarang

Well-known member
Very interesting! where did you get this observation. Misquoting should not become a habit.

What did heun tsang say? I am curious. I can't find any reference.
the caste system came with the british. heun tsang the chinese traveller was all lies. etc.. etc..
i am plain confused.
 
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sarang

Well-known member
Sure to happen. If every post is to be converted or twisted to blame brahmins a stage will come when one runs out of points. Either one must add or subtract or ask for clarification to the issue discussed instead of rocketing into the typical bb orbit.

chandra,
i am perplexed.

i am plain confused.
 

sarang

Well-known member
If hindus praise our religion, they are despicable hindutvavadis. If foreigners praise our religion, hindus are pathetically insecure and suffer from himalayan inferiority complex. what a strange logic?
 

kunjuppu

Well-known member
If hindus praise our religion, they are despicable hindutvavadis. If foreigners praise our religion, hindus are pathetically insecure and suffer from himalayan inferiority complex. what a strange logic?

sarang,

there are types of praises and types of praises.

works by rajaji, radhakrishnan, kannadasan and (of late) discourses by (ex tamil actor) shiva kumar or vishaka hari, whom i came to know only recently, there is absolute devotion and commitment there, and as a practising hindu, i love to read and hear these.

what i fail to understand, is excerpts picked through googling at random, from western scholars and quoted here, with what i feel, a vehemence as if to prove a point, that even if some tambrams do not appreciate our heritage, there are western scholars who do!

it is but a pyrrhic victory, if at all these are victorious statements?

no amount of western thought and praise, is good enough, only as good, as the roots of the faith within india is strong.

which is why, i go along with thoughtful people, who think through instead of blindly accepting the mores and norms of the milleniums past and say that these are good for today, if these were good enough all these years. that arguement simply does not hold water.

any of our great grandparent, ie 2 generations ago, if they would come into this world today, i am positive, they would not be able to relate to our lives. yes, they will see a senseless repetition of rituals like amavasai or thevasam, the regular 13 day kriyaiyis after death, the regular visit to kasi and chanting or rudrams and other hymns.

but our values? in many way, they will disagree. i am almost willing to bet the world on that.

i am bound to think, our fraternization with other castes, groups, eating with other communities, our polluted form of observing 'madi' and above all the loss of many entitlements that they enjoyed, right from preference through word of mouth in the civil service to almost a monopolizing status in the lives of the people of tamil nadu.

today's tambrams have moved far away from those practices and we are much more egalitarian and liberal inoutlook than even our
grandparents. in cities we simply do not have two tumblers. atleast in my relatives' houses of today.

but, dear sarang, where i think, we fall short, is our obsession with quotas and reservations re colleges/govt jobs, because we narrowly think of our own community, and not our country. no country can afford, to leave wayside certain sections of its populations to garbage, and blame the victims for their abject lot.

if anyone claims that reservations/quotas are failures, one only has to look at the communities of tamil nadu, and it is a proud achievement even nari kuravas have a doctor from their community, the same nari kuruvas, who used to chase/hunt squirrels, cats in the madras of my youth, catch and use them as food, and sell glass beads for a pittance. this is progress and this is the india, that we need to be proud of and not look at with envy and distaste, which many tambrams here do, because of the concept of reservations/quotas, which they feel, took away their entitlement to government services.

identity with hinduism should and i think, will be, in the long run, a flat society and not the stratified one we are all used to, with brahmins at the top of the varna, the various shudra in between, and the panchamas outside of it. any tambram who even sniffs support for this status quo, in my opinion, is doing more harm than the poster abundant evangelical pastor.

hope this explains, atleast somewhat, why i think, looking for praises from western scholars for our philosophy and cultures, is useless. also, the same western scholars, if you go through them deeply, will have sharp things to say about brahmins re their daily practices of exclusions, and that will hurt. :)

[video]http://www.youtube.com/topic/MYSTXpgVaSc/vishaka-hari[/video]
 

sangom

Well-known member
Shri Kunjuppu,

May I beg to differ from you in respect of your observation "works by rajaji, radhakrishnan, kannadasan and (of late) discourses by (ex tamil actor) shiva kumar or vishaka hari, whom i came to know only recently, there is absolute devotion and commitment there, and as a practising hindu, i love to read and hear these."

Smt. Visakha Hari is, in my opinion, no way different from the orthodoxy here which I and probably you also criticize. If we take VH's certificate of hinduism as something of value, then, honestly, we lose our moral stand to criticize the blind orthodoxy. Rajaji falls in the same category, imo but Radhakrishnan being a philosopher has a different approach though, he also tries not to tread on the toes of the orthodox believers except when compelled by his scholastic opinion. I am not familiar with the works of kannadasan or shivakumar and so I reserve my judgment.
 

kunjuppu

Well-known member
Shri Kunjuppu,

May I beg to differ from you in respect of your observation "works by rajaji, radhakrishnan, kannadasan and (of late) discourses by (ex tamil actor) shiva kumar or vishaka hari, whom i came to know only recently, there is absolute devotion and commitment there, and as a practising hindu, i love to read and hear these."

Smt. Visakha Hari is, in my opinion, no way different from the orthodoxy here which I and probably you also criticize. If we take VH's certificate of hinduism as something of value, then, honestly, we lose our moral stand to criticize the blind orthodoxy. Rajaji falls in the same category, imo but Radhakrishnan being a philosopher has a different approach though, he also tries not to tread on the toes of the orthodox believers except when compelled by his scholastic opinion. I am not familiar with the works of kannadasan or shivakumar and so I reserve my judgment.

dear sangom,

i am 100% in agreement with you. infact, when i read kannadasan's 'arthamulla hindu madham', i thought his explanation/justification of varna/jathi was like skating on thin ice.

my exhortions to folks like sarang, is the futility of quoting western folks, to project the greatness of hinduism. there are sufficient number of local desis to do so. that is all.

personally i feel, there will be no one person where you or i will agree 100%, including among ourselves. but then there is a broad >50% agreement.

in that context, vishaka hari, presents a facet of hinduism in an interesting manner. in real life, she is also a chartered accountant, the mother of a new born and one never knows, under what context she has picked up this art. there may be a inner rebel in her, and who knows, her interpretations might take on a femininist slant over the years, when she gets more confident and has a more loyal following.

as Yamaka would say, 'wait and watch'. :)

ps.. it is my nature, and i agree that this may be a irrevocable fault, i am unable to let go of anyone for disagreement of views. even absolutely. i think, it is important to keep conversations and dialogues going, for somewhere, in the distant eon, there may be a meeting point, ie the proverbial meeting point of the railway tracks ie infinity.. which is why i find goodness in VH or rajaji or kannadasan..

btw i heard that shivakumar's discourses are awesome, ie more attuned towards the paamara makkal, but solid its arguements nevertheless. he probably can garner a bigger crowd than VH :)
 
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sarang

Well-known member
I was under the impression that all posts and replies of anti brahmin sentiments will be exclusively posted in the first section 'general discussions'; now I know it is not so. DK culture of 'saaNi erithal and tar poosuthal' will be done will be done everywhere. Perhaps it will be better if the posts like 'i hate brahmins', 'I hate rituals', 'all brahmins are hypocritical', x's falsities' get their due exalted status in the general section. I am only reminded of an incident in the vandalur zoo, where a well built hippopotamus did his morning ablutions in a small pond and followed it with a swift whipping with its small tail causing a generous spray all around.

I hope some sanity will prevail in 'non general discussions'. Otherwise we must follow what rajaji said when tarring of name boards was in full swing. 'It is their nature, we can't stop them from doing it; but we will clean up after they leave'.


sarang,

there are types of praises and types of praises.

works by rajaji, radhakrishnan, kannadasan and (of late) discourses by (ex tamil actor) shiva kumar or vishaka hari, whom i came to know only recently, there is absolute devotion and commitment there, and as a practising hindu, i love to read and hear these.

what i fail to understand, is excerpts picked through googling at random, from western scholars and quoted here, with what i feel, a vehemence as if to prove a point, that even if some tambrams do not appreciate our heritage, there are western scholars who do!

it is but a pyrrhic victory, if at all these are victorious statements?

no amount of western thought and praise, is good enough, only as good, as the roots of the faith within india is strong.

which is why, i go along with thoughtful people, who think through instead of blindly accepting the mores and norms of the milleniums past and say that these are good for today, if these were good enough all these years. that arguement simply does not hold water.

any of our great grandparent, ie 2 generations ago, if they would come into this world today, i am positive, they would not be able to relate to our lives. yes, they will see a senseless repetition of rituals like amavasai or thevasam, the regular 13 day kriyaiyis after death, the regular visit to kasi and chanting or rudrams and other hymns.

but our values? in many way, they will disagree. i am almost willing to bet the world on that.

i am bound to think, our fraternization with other castes, groups, eating with other communities, our polluted form of observing 'madi' and above all the loss of many entitlements that they enjoyed, right from preference through word of mouth in the civil service to almost a monopolizing status in the lives of the people of tamil nadu.

today's tambrams have moved far away from those practices and we are much more egalitarian and liberal inoutlook than even our
grandparents. in cities we simply do not have two tumblers. atleast in my relatives' houses of today.

but, dear sarang, where i think, we fall short, is our obsession with quotas and reservations re colleges/govt jobs, because we narrowly think of our own community, and not our country. no country can afford, to leave wayside certain sections of its populations to garbage, and blame the victims for their abject lot.

if anyone claims that reservations/quotas are failures, one only has to look at the communities of tamil nadu, and it is a proud achievement even nari kuravas have a doctor from their community, the same nari kuruvas, who used to chase/hunt squirrels, cats in the madras of my youth, catch and use them as food, and sell glass beads for a pittance. this is progress and this is the india, that we need to be proud of and not look at with envy and distaste, which many tambrams here do, because of the concept of reservations/quotas, which they feel, took away their entitlement to government services.

identity with hinduism should and i think, will be, in the long run, a flat society and not the stratified one we are all used to, with brahmins at the top of the varna, the various shudra in between, and the panchamas outside of it. any tambram who even sniffs support for this status quo, in my opinion, is doing more harm than the poster abundant evangelical pastor.

hope this explains, atleast somewhat, why i think, looking for praises from western scholars for our philosophy and cultures, is useless. also, the same western scholars, if you go through them deeply, will have sharp things to say about brahmins re their daily practices of exclusions, and that will hurt. :)

[video]http://www.youtube.com/topic/MYSTXpgVaSc/vishaka-hari[/video]
 

sarang

Well-known member
I believe sigmund freuid was delving in the past to analyse today's behaviour. We have future predictions as well. Astrology in its new avatar.

i, presents a facet of hinduism in an interesting manner. in real life, she is also a chartered accountant, the mother of a new born and one never knows, under what context she has picked up this art. there may be a inner rebel in her, and who knows, her interpretations might take on a femininist slant over the years, when she gets more confident and has a more loyal following.
 
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