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Egyptian Origin Of Christianity.

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niyengaar

New member
These are some of the interesting sites i wanted to share for some time.

Btw, seems like our own Hinduism has also contributed significantly to the Culture that they thrust on Mr Jesus.

Funny how we Hindus are mocked at as "Pagans" abroad ! Lols :) ...

POCM Pagan Origins of the Christ Myth

Mithraism and Early Christianity


The Egyptian Origin of Christianity (Blue Dolphin Publishing)

Color photos for Egyptian Origins of Christianity

KEMETIC - EGYPTIAN ORIGIN OF CHRISTIANITY



There might be a lot more of you there, knowing more about these than what i do.

Why not share the same here ? And are there further links to go through to know more about these ?

_n.
 

saidevo

Well-known member
The myth of Jesus Christ is a story cobbled up from various sources. Other texts that deal with Christianity from the Hindu pov or otherwise critically explore it include:

'Jesus Christ: An artifice for aggression' by Sita Ram Goel
Jesus Christ - An Artifice for Aggression by Sita Ram Goel.pdf

'An examination of the doctrines of Christianity' by svAmi DayAnand
Scribd

'The Bible unmasked' by Joseph Lewis
Joseph Lewis - The Bible Unmasked

'St. Thomas’ two skeletons (Mylapore, India; Ortona, Italy)' KalyANarAman
St. Thomas

St.Thomas: devAnanda interview
The Swami Devananda Saraswati Interview With Rajeev Srinivasan

In addition, Hindus need to be careful and confront such comparative texts as:
'Wisdom of the GitA and the Bible' by NR srInivAsan
http://www.ganeshatemple.org/Article...of GEETA.pdf

Jesus: in the Vedas: native missionary
Internet Archive: Error

Some anti-Christian websites:
Exposing Christianity

Truth Be Known | Acharya S | D.M. Murdock
Hindu Dharma Forums - View Single Post - Extrapolating Christianity--to What End?
 

sangom

Well-known member
Dear Shri Saidevo,

The "aam aadmi" does not bother about all these intricacies contained in the said books. For the starving millions of aadivasis and hill tribes, a measure of rice, a small amount of cash grant or a veshti and thunDu will be sufficient reason for changing over to Xianiity. Anyway, these people never knew the enormous intricacies of Hinduism and so they are least bothered about them. For such suffering people roti aur kapda are gods, not even "makaan" is necessary!

What ahs the hindu religion to offer to such poor people, in order to keep them within the hindu fold?
 
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niyengaar

New member
Dear Shri Saidevo,

The "aam aadmi" does not bother about all these intricacies contained in the said books. For the starving millions of aadivasis and hill tribes, a measure of rice, a small amount of cash grant or a veshti and thunDu will be sufficient reason for changing over to Xianiity. Anyway, these people never knew the enormous intricacies of Hinduism and so they are least bothered about them. For such suffering people roti aur kapda are gods, not even "makaan" is necessary!

What ahs the hindu religion to offer to such poor people, in order to keep them within the hindu fold?


so you probably accept that it is not the religion that converts. am on the same point there.


regarding "what the hindu religion has to offer", i guess we differ.


i think u understood what you wrote when you wrote that for the aam aadmi , "rice, a small amount of cash grant or a veshti and thunDu will be sufficient reason for changing " .

so u are pretty clear that it is not what the Christian religion offers which make them convert - but what the Christians offer.

And that is where, elders / experienced ones in the religion , ( like you yourself ? ) come into picture ?

If we are clear about what converts, it is also clear as to "who" converts. And the Organised Convertion - is organized by a few of their smart ones ( Their International Evangelist Network ? ) who make the aam-aadmis dance to their wishes ?

If you elders can realize that you are the "few smart ones" on the other side of the coin, it is up to you people to counter these organised errosion of our Religion ?

Point sold :) ?
 

saidevo

Well-known member
namaste shri Sangom and others.

As usual you seek to blame Hinduism for not providing food, clothes and shelter to the aam aadmi, although it is the prerogative of the state and central Governments. shrI Iyengaar has well made the point that it is the street-smartness of the Christian missionaries rather than the strength or weakness of either of the religions that prompts converion among the aam aadmi.

Conversion takes many forms and involves not just the aam aadmi. The latest trends involve upper class/caste Hindus, specially brahmins, the Hindu students stuyding in the USA (campus evangelism), taking advantage of their religious indifference and worldy ambitions. Today we see their inculturation methods and the desi Bible, but even in 2008, Ravi Zacharias, the famous apologist wrote a series called 'Great Conversations' which involve talks between Jesus and other religious deities (KRiShNa for us), in a bid to present an imaginative approach to attract the Hindu educated.

I wrote a parody on Zacharias' series, soon after, which is as follows:

Jesus talks to Krishna

Now this book after the Desi (Indianized) Bible. Shows that the evangelists are active in deceitfully ingenious ways!

How do you go about designing a pocket book with an evangelical intent that could try to retain the existing Christians in their dwindling faith and might also be used as an evangelical tool?

The recipe for a small book intended for mass appeal is as simple as that for cooking uppumA or kichaDi. Take a converted Hindu for the lead human character. He should be a brahmin these days, because the dalits convert easily and have no knowledge about Hinduism, the castes falling under the kShatria and vysya varNa won't convert easily since their Hindu faith is more emotional, whereas the IT-savvy, business-minded brahmins of these days have practically no religious practice though they might traditionally know more about their religion. They also tend to question their time-reverred religious practices, so that comes in handy as a ploy for conversion. Remember, this brahmin convert should have an out-of-the-world experience of Jesus coming to him all of a sudden and in the jolt that takes place he throws away all the shackles of his rituals and falls for the love of Christ.

In this way, Ravi Zacharias has used his leading brahmin character Subramaniam to initially mouth his knowledge about Hindus and Hinduism. Ravi says that the story of Subramaniam is a real one, but you can easily call the bluff from the incidents he presents as leading to Subra's conversion:

• Subramaniam was named only on the eleventh day after he was born. His mother was not allowed to attend the ceremony because she was considered unclean for thirty days from the delivery of her child. Added to that was the practice that his father could not touch the baby until the 11th day as the baby was considered impure. Such discrimination hurt even the 11-day old baby, who began to sense that something was wrong with their faith!

• The practice of a child being given no name until the 11th day since birth and the mother's absence at the naming ceremony seems 'chavinistic' to Richard, Subra's friend, who is touring India and studying the Hindus.

• Subramaniam attained his 'second birth' at the elaborate Upanayanam ceremony, which sounds like "an Indian version of a bar mitzvah" to Richard. Subra is also presented as feeling that his having to recite daily for the rest of his life, the "liturgical spell, ... whispered by the priest to my father, who whispered it into my right ear" at the Upanayanam ceremony as a religious burden that he cast away when he started questioning their practices.

• The Upanayanam also took away the custom of women dining together with men in the family, so his mother could not sit with him at a meal, and this affected the boy...

• Thus Subra started questioning the practices of his Brahmin elders, got no answers, left the home, went to a cave, sat with a silent ascetic there and meditated. When no answers came to him, the ascetic wrote a few brief words and told Subra that he must leave the latter and would find the answers he was seeking "elsewhere".

Convenient and ingenious eh? If you are an author of such a piece, you can surely rub your hands in satisfaction at this point! The brahmin boy cannot on self-meditate the praNava mantra given to him, the ascetic in the cave could not help him and only some other faith can: more convenient and ingenious since the sage himself is telling the boy that the answers were "elsewhere"!

• Weeks later, Subra comes back to the cave still seeking spiritual illumination, hears a voice--not the Swami's--from inside the cave. The voice is "clear and calm, breathtaking and true" and speaks only two words: "Follow me." Thus came Jesus to Subra!

Thereafter it's easy. Any Tom-Dick-Harry preacher would seem a messenger of Jesus to Subra, so Subra meets a man walking on the road who tells him the 'strange and beautiful' story of a babe born in a straw manger and that the babe was the incarnation of the true God and had come to connect them to the true Supreme Being!

Note the words that Ravi uses: "incarnation of the true God" and "the true Supreme Being". Only shows that the missionary preachers are not themselves sure of their own conceptions of God.

• Thereafter, Subra takes Richard to Mathura, the birthplace of Krishna, they both make fun of some of the Hindu practices, climate, culture and living conditions, a monkey snatches away Richard's sun goggles (thank Jesus that Ravi did not view the monkey as a messenger of Hanuman), and so on and so forth...

...and the first chapter ends with Subra sighting Jesus and Krishna in a secluded pasture as he sits there to take rest and closes his eyes. Subra eavesdrops the conversation that takes place between Jesus and Krishna and narrates it back to Richard later for Ravi's book.

This book is part of the series Great Conversations by Ravi Zacharias. Earlier Jesus talked to Buddha--wonder if Ravi is trying to convert even the Gods, but let me not give ideas to this ingenious preacher!

Tailpeace

The excerpt from the first chapter of the book is given at:
Book Excerpt: New Birth or Rebirth? by Ravi Zacharias

*****

KRShNa talks to Jesus

Going by the approach and purpose of Ravi, it should not be too difficult for those who has read the book to refute his ideas coming through the mouth of Krishna.

We can perhaps imitate Ravi and write a tailpeace to the Jesus-Krishna chat:

Krishna (continuing their earlier chat): Jesus, you consider yourself historical? Is there enough proof for the dogged researchers there on the earth?

Jesus: I am historical in the same way as you are, Krishna. What is there left of your history in India?

Krishna: My historical evidences are lying underground a mosque in Mathura and underwater in Dvaraka in Gujarat and are also closely linked with the places of Mahabharata that are there today in India. I shall bring them up when mankind is ready for them. Whereas in your case even the few evidences considered unassailable at one time are giving way to the rigours of modern religious and scientific scrutiny.

Jesus: Yes, that's the saddest part of it. My preachers are still as dumb as the sheep I led. They want to have all the pastures instead of trying to retain what they have. And like them they congregate and bleat away the gospels, as the audience keeps dwindling.

Krishna: But then I thought your Gospels are strong enough to impart faith?

Jesus: My Apostles have made a mess of my teachings! When they are not consistent in their narrations, how can today's intelligent folowers have faith in them? Whereas in your Gita, it is only You and Your words throughout. I made a mistake: I should have recorded my teachings in my lifetime and published them.

Krishna: Don't be disheartened, Jesus, people just love you! Your flock is swelling among the Orientals.

Jesus: You played all the roles in your drama of life, and people love you in every role that you played. I could only play the role of the saviour and was not even hero of the drama until my death.

Krishna: That depends on the civilization and people around you, Jesus.

Jesus: You're right as usual. You led great people besides the cows you tended and gave great truths in great depths, whereas I led only the dumb sheep--literally as well as figuratively--and could only talk to them in the language they would understand.

And they went on to talk about the future of mankind, switching over to a divine language that no eavesdropper could understand...

*****

These stories have all the same stereotype, time-worn, sick formula: devout Hindus giving/encouraged to give cock and bull stories to justify their conversion. I did not read the entire story, stopped at this spot, where I can find the 'fallacy' of the Christian arguments:

In that moment of frozen terror, out of the past came my mother's voice, repeating words I had long forgotten: "Rabi, if ever you're in real danger and nothing else seems to work, there's another god you can pray to. His name is Jesus."

Rabi says earlier that his mother was devoted to her husband and understood his Self-Realization efforts, so her asking her son to seek 'another god' is unconvincing!

During my third year in high school I experienced an increasingly deep inner conflict. My growing awareness of God as the Creator, separate and distinct from the universe He had made, contradicted the Hindu concept that god was everything, that the Creator and the Creation were one and the same. If there was only One Reality, then Brahman was evil as well as good, death as well as life, hatred as well as love. That made everything meaningless, life an absurdity. It was not easy to maintain both one's sanity and the view that good and evil, love and hate, life and death were One Reality.

With the one-life-one-heaven-one-hell concept, Christianity is ignorant of the subtler sheaths of a human soul where it lives after the physical body falls. Good and evil are only filmy karmic manifestations that seek to hide the Self, which at the core is one with Brahman. An individual who has even a slight intellectual understanding of this truth will not complain about the good and evil in the world and say that Brahman can't be both good and evil, so he must be separate as the Creator. Here is an appropriate quote for the converted Christians:

"Some are born ignorant, some achieve ignorance and some have ignorance thrust upon 'em." (Modification of Shakespeare's words in Twelfth Night).

*****
 
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niyengaar

New member
namaste shri Sangom and others.

As usual you seek to blame Hinduism for not providing food, clothes and shelter to the aam aadmi, although it is the prerogative of the state and central Governments. shrI Iyengaar has well made the point that it is the street-smartness of the Christian missionaries rather than the strength or weakness of either of the religions that prompts converion among the aam aadmi.

Conversion takes many forms and involves not just the aam aadmi. The latest trends involve upper class/caste Hindus, specially brahmins, the Hindu students stuyding in the USA (campus evangelism), taking advantage of their religious indifference and worldy ambitions. Today we see their inculturation methods and the desi Bible, but even in 2008, Ravi Zacharias, the famous apologist wrote a series called 'Great Conversations' which involve talks between Jesus and other religious deities (KRiShNa for us), in a bid to present an imaginative approach to attract the Hindu educated.

I wrote a parody on Zacharias' series, soon after, which is as follows:

Jesus talks to Krishna

Now this book after the Desi (Indianized) Bible. Shows that the evangelists are active in deceitfully ingenious ways!

How do you go about designing a pocket book with an evangelical intent that could try to retain the existing Christians in their dwindling faith and might also be used as an evangelical tool?

The recipe for a small book intended for mass appeal is as simple as that for cooking uppumA or kichaDi. Take a converted Hindu for the lead human character. He should be a brahmin these days, because the dalits convert easily and have no knowledge about Hinduism, the castes falling under the kShatria and vysya varNa won't convert easily since their Hindu faith is more emotional, whereas the IT-savvy, business-minded brahmins of these days have practically no religious practice though they might traditionally know more about their religion. They also tend to question their time-reverred religious practices, so that comes in handy as a ploy for conversion. Remember, this brahmin convert should have an out-of-the-world experience of Jesus coming to him all of a sudden and in the jolt that takes place he throws away all the shackles of his rituals and falls for the love of Christ.

In this way, Ravi Zacharias has used his leading brahmin character Subramaniam to initially mouth his knowledge about Hindus and Hinduism. Ravi says that the story of Subramaniam is a real one, but you can easily call the bluff from the incidents he presents as leading to Subra's conversion:

• Subramaniam was named only on the eleventh day after he was born. His mother was not allowed to attend the ceremony because she was considered unclean for thirty days from the delivery of her child. Added to that was the practice that his father could not touch the baby until the 11th day as the baby was considered impure. Such discrimination hurt even the 11-day old baby, who began to sense that something was wrong with their faith!

• The practice of a child being given no name until the 11th day since birth and the mother's absence at the naming ceremony seems 'chavinistic' to Richard, Subra's friend, who is touring India and studying the Hindus.

• Subramaniam attained his 'second birth' at the elaborate Upanayanam ceremony, which sounds like "an Indian version of a bar mitzvah" to Richard. Subra is also presented as feeling that his having to recite daily for the rest of his life, the "liturgical spell, ... whispered by the priest to my father, who whispered it into my right ear" at the Upanayanam ceremony as a religious burden that he cast away when he started questioning their practices.

• The Upanayanam also took away the custom of women dining together with men in the family, so his mother could not sit with him at a meal, and this affected the boy...

• Thus Subra started questioning the practices of his Brahmin elders, got no answers, left the home, went to a cave, sat with a silent ascetic there and meditated. When no answers came to him, the ascetic wrote a few brief words and told Subra that he must leave the latter and would find the answers he was seeking "elsewhere".

Convenient and ingenious eh? If you are an author of such a piece, you can surely rub your hands in satisfaction at this point! The brahmin boy cannot on self-meditate the praNava mantra given to him, the ascetic in the cave could not help him and only some other faith can: more convenient and ingenious since the sage himself is telling the boy that the answers were "elsewhere"!

• Weeks later, Subra comes back to the cave still seeking spiritual illumination, hears a voice--not the Swami's--from inside the cave. The voice is "clear and calm, breathtaking and true" and speaks only two words: "Follow me." Thus came Jesus to Subra!

Thereafter it's easy. Any Tom-Dick-Harry preacher would seem a messenger of Jesus to Subra, so Subra meets a man walking on the road who tells him the 'strange and beautiful' story of a babe born in a straw manger and that the babe was the incarnation of the true God and had come to connect them to the true Supreme Being!

Note the words that Ravi uses: "incarnation of the true God" and "the true Supreme Being". Only shows that the missionary preachers are not themselves sure of their own conceptions of God.

• Thereafter, Subra takes Richard to Mathura, the birthplace of Krishna, they both make fun of some of the Hindu practices, climate, culture and living conditions, a monkey snatches away Richard's sun goggles (thank Jesus that Ravi did not view the monkey as a messenger of Hanuman), and so on and so forth...

...and the first chapter ends with Subra sighting Jesus and Krishna in a secluded pasture as he sits there to take rest and closes his eyes. Subra eavesdrops the conversation that takes place between Jesus and Krishna and narrates it back to Richard later for Ravi's book.

This book is part of the series Great Conversations by Ravi Zacharias. Earlier Jesus talked to Buddha--wonder if Ravi is trying to convert even the Gods, but let me not give ideas to this ingenious preacher!

Tailpeace

The excerpt from the first chapter of the book is given at:
Book Excerpt: New Birth or Rebirth? by Ravi Zacharias

*****

KRShNa talks to Jesus

Going by the approach and purpose of Ravi, it should not be too difficult for those who has read the book to refute his ideas coming through the mouth of Krishna.

We can perhaps imitate Ravi and write a tailpeace to the Jesus-Krishna chat:

Krishna (continuing their earlier chat): Jesus, you consider yourself historical? Is there enough proof for the dogged researchers there on the earth?

Jesus: I am historical in the same way as you are, Krishna. What is there left of your history in India?

Krishna: My historical evidences are lying underground a mosque in Mathura and underwater in Dvaraka in Gujarat and are also closely linked with the places of Mahabharata that are there today in India. I shall bring them up when mankind is ready for them. Whereas in your case even the few evidences considered unassailable at one time are giving way to the rigours of modern religious and scientific scrutiny.

Jesus: Yes, that's the saddest part of it. My preachers are still as dumb as the sheep I led. They want to have all the pastures instead of trying to retain what they have. And like them they congregate and bleat away the gospels, as the audience keeps dwindling.

Krishna: But then I thought your Gospels are strong enough to impart faith?

Jesus: My Apostles have made a mess of my teachings! When they are not consistent in their narrations, how can today's intelligent folowers have faith in them? Whereas in your Gita, it is only You and Your words throughout. I made a mistake: I should have recorded my teachings in my lifetime and published them.

Krishna: Don't be disheartened, Jesus, people just love you! Your flock is swelling among the Orientals.

Jesus: You played all the roles in your drama of life, and people love you in every role that you played. I could only play the role of the saviour and was not even hero of the drama until my death.

Krishna: That depends on the civilization and people around you, Jesus.

Jesus: You're right as usual. You led great people besides the cows you tended and gave great truths in great depths, whereas I led only the dumb sheep--literally as well as figuratively--and could only talk to them in the language they would understand.

And they went on to talk about the future of mankind, switching over to a divine language that no eavesdropper could understand...

*****

These stories have all the same stereotype, time-worn, sick formula: devout Hindus giving/encouraged to give cock and bull stories to justify their conversion. I did not read the entire story, stopped at this spot, where I can find the 'fallacy' of the Christian arguments:



Rabi says earlier that his mother was devoted to her husband and understood his Self-Realization efforts, so her asking her son to seek 'another god' is unconvincing!



With the one-life-one-heaven-one-hell concept, Christianity is ignorant of the subtler sheaths of a human soul where it lives after the physical body falls. Good and evil are only filmy karmic manifestations that seek to hide the Self, which at the core is one with Brahman. An individual who has even a slight intellectual understanding of this truth will not complain about the good and evil in the world and say that Brahman can't be both good and evil, so he must be separate as the Creator. Here is an appropriate quote for the converted Christians:

"Some are born ignorant, some achieve ignorance and some have ignorance thrust upon 'em." (Modification of Shakespeare's words in Twelfth Night).

*****

some excellent work shri sai ji.
btw, i guess i am learning to use "shri" from you all :). thnx for that.
 
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niyengaar

New member
so you probably accept that it is not the religion that converts. am on the same point there.


regarding "what the hindu religion has to offer", i guess we differ.


i think u understood what you wrote when you wrote that for the aam aadmi , "rice, a small amount of cash grant or a veshti and thunDu will be sufficient reason for changing " .

so u are pretty clear that it is not what the Christian religion offers which make them convert - but what the Christians offer.

And that is where, elders / experienced ones in the religion , ( like you yourself ? ) come into picture ?

If we are clear about what converts, it is also clear as to "who" converts. And the Organised Convertion - is organized by a few of their smart ones ( Their International Evangelist Network ? ) who make the aam-aadmis dance to their wishes ?

If you elders can realize that you are the "few smart ones" on the other side of the coin, it is up to you people to counter these organised errosion of our Religion ?

Point sold :) ?


btw, just to add, a couple of days ago , i started a thread on "who owns our Mandhirs" !

none of you were ready to reply about why our Mandhirs alone are under the Government's / Various Individual Trust's control ( most of them under politicions who ve occupied and looted the Mandhir 's Land and Properties.

While it was very easy to ask "what the hindu religion has to offer", how about a level playing feild ? why not ask why our mandhirs / communities alone do Not have any proper Organisational structure while other religions here are permitted to play around us ?

why do we always feel proud at pointing mistakes at ourselves - and completely ignoring that we are at the recieving end ?

Have we ever ever used the same yard scale on every religion ? at least once ?
 

sarang

Well-known member
I have a slightly different point. We must build temples in every village and in all remote areas. These temples must serve as meeting places, imparting basic education to locals, participatory rituals and decent 'annadhan'. This, I believe, will slow down conversion to christianity. Not sure about reverse conversion.

I have seen this effect in some areas of Tamilnadu. In one sparsely populated area, I saw mushrooming of single room 'japa mandapams' with bold crosses, some years ago. Recently, I saw 4 or 5 temples being built in the same area. Nothing can beat temple going culture to keep hindus rooted to our tradition.

Please do contribute for such temple building and temple maintenance activities.

last week, on my way to chennai airport, I saw hundreds of orange/ pink clad men and women walking south. I was told that this is a 'padayatra' to velankanni church organised like sabarimalai yatra.
 
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niyengaar

New member
I have a slightly different point. We must build temples in every village and in all remote areas. These temples must serve as meeting places, imparting basic education to locals, participatory rituals and decent 'annadhan'. This, I believe, will slow down conversion to christianity. Not sure about reverse conversion.

I have seen this effect in some areas of Tamilnadu. In one sparsely populated area, I saw mushrooming of single room 'japa mandapams' with bold crosses, some years ago. Recently, I saw 4 or 5 temples being built in the same area. Nothing can beat temple going culture to keep hindus rooted to our tradition.

Please do contribute for such temple building and temple maintenance activities.

last week, on my way to chennai airport, I saw hundreds of orange/ pink clad men and women walking south. I was told that this is a 'padayatra' to velankanni church organised like sabarimalai yatra.

actually sarang, that is the same point i am stressing on as well.

but tell me, all i am asking is who does this "we" refer to , when we say "We must build temples" ?

that was the very reason i asked the question, "who owns our Mandhirs" !

lets put things this way - you and a group of your friends start say a dozen temples. And say, donate a dozen acres of land for the same ( or through public collections ).

now, two years down the line, the "aranilaya thurai" appoints its own minister's benomy ( wife's brother / brother's wife / whoever ) into the trust. and with their p[olitical background, construct buildings and other commercial things in that place and sell them for profit / use that land for their own profit. How would you feel about that ?

or say, every wall outside of the temple is littered with "Mr M.K. Alagiri"s poster / or his sons. the temple collections go to the govt. gajana and the govt. assures to spend for the temples kumbabishekam , once in every 12 yrs or something along those lines.


do you think this is what you wanted in the first place ?


this is not the way things happen with Churches or Mosques.


then why just with temples ? and why are people happy to keep shut at this ?
 

sarang

Well-known member
The 'aranilayathurai' will not be interested if a) the temple is poor or the revenue generated is not attractive enough or b) if the temple is owned by powerful people (melamaruvattur or sripuram of vellore).Only BJP is ready to relinquish control over the temples. Yediyurappa announced a plan to release temple control in karnataka. Jayalalitha has dismissed all atheist executive officers in all temples.

Liberal hindus argue that private ownership of temple will lead to corruption.
 
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niyengaar

New member
The 'aranilayathurai' will not be interested if a) the temple is poor or the revenue generated is not attractive enough or b) if the temple is owned by powerful people (melamaruvattur or sripuram of vellore).Only BJP is ready to relinquish control over the temples. Yediyurappa announced a plan to release temple control in karnataka. Jayalalitha has dismissed all atheist executive officers in all temples.

Liberal hindus argue that private ownership of temple will lead to corruption.


Exactly.

So, it is like , if u bother about ur Mandhirs and try to boost its revenues for Hinduism, the govt ll interfere to swallow all the money.

In other words, until the Mandhirs are "fit for nothing", they ve got no issues.

But if the same Mandhirs grow, the politicos will make sure that it gets back to a "fit for nothing" status.


And if i am correct, Tirupathi Devastanam was appointed a new Trust Head under the previous YSR Congress govt. and immediately, he became the Congress MP ?


Excellent ! Has any Church or Mosque been facing anything simillar ?

Why is it only with us Hindus ?
 
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niyengaar

New member
Liberal hindus argue that private ownership of temple will lead to corruption.


1) have the so called Liberals, ever bothered about the Private Ownership of Churches and Mosques ?


2) Or are they stating that the Vatican is the most corrupt organization, considering its presence in every nook and corner of the world ?

3) Or are they saying that only Mandhirs can become corrupt while other religious institutions cant ?

4) And are they also implying that the current State governance if Hinduism has had No Corruption ? Can they please let us all know what has happened to all the Temple Lands ?

 

sangom

Well-known member
Shri Saidevo and others,

I am not looking at the religious side of conversion, nor any of the other points brought up since. If the hindu fold has to safeguard the poor starving people of the lower castes within its fold, then some arrangement has to be put in place to ensure that those poor people will get some meagre sustenance whenever they are at the verge of starvation. We do not have any such mechanism under the Hindu system. Whenever mention of hindu or hinduism is made we almost always think of temples, which then goes to priests and then on to castes but no step is taken towards the poorer classes and castes.

Why not set up some godowns in selected central areas, stock foodgrains and minimum essential commodities and distribute to the poorer people where the chances of conversion are more?
 
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niyengaar

New member
Shri Saidevo and others,

I am not looking at the religious side of conversion, nor any of the other points brought up since. If the hindu fold has to safeguard the poor starving people of the lower castes within its fold, then some arrangement has to be put in place to ensure that those poor people will get some meagre sustenance whenever they are at the verge of starvation. We do not have any such mechanism under the Hindu system. Whenever mention of hindu or hinduism is made we almost always think of temples, which then goes to priests and then on to castes but no step is taken towards the poorer classes and castes.

Why not set up some godowns in selected central areas, stock foodgrains and minimum essential commodities and distribute to the poorer people where the chances of conversion are more?


That is a very positive idea.

And this is what i meant when i stressed on "increasing more community activities" , at the start.


But we need to bring all these under one common roof. There might be a lot of people trying simillar things at various places without knowing about others around.

Under one single roof, it would be easier to Organise, share knowledge and serve things in a lot better manner. Point sold ?
 

saidevo

Well-known member
namaste shrI Sangom and others.

You have given a nice and practical idea, but there is a subtle difference. In the case of Christianity, such food facilities can easily be set up by their institutions behind their churches, but here our temples, although they have the legacy of abundant lands and produce, the government and politicians control and mismanage them. This is what shrI Iyengaar has been reiterating in his posts.

Every Christian contributes 10% or so of their income to the church, which is virtually compulsory. How many of us Hindus do it, and even if we want to, we cannot depend on the government, so we cannot donate to the temples. But then we can donate our mite to the MaThams and Hindu social institutions but they are divided by sects and are subject to human frailties.

HH shrI DayAnanda Sarasvati has formed the Hindu Dharma Acharya Sabha, in a bid to unite our various maThams, but going by their website, this apex body is scarcely, if at all, functional:
Acharya Sabha - Home

Seems we have too much religious freedom to unite under a single banner with peaceful coexistence of our various sects.
 

sangom

Well-known member
namaste shrI Sangom and others.

You have given a nice and practical idea, but there is a subtle difference. In the case of Christianity, such food facilities can easily be set up by their institutions behind their churches, but here our temples, although they have the legacy of abundant lands and produce, the government and politicians control and mismanage them. This is what shrI Iyengaar has been reiterating in his posts.

Every Christian contributes 10% or so of their income to the church, which is virtually compulsory. How many of us Hindus do it, and even if we want to, we cannot depend on the government, so we cannot donate to the temples. But then we can donate our mite to the MaThams and Hindu social institutions but they are divided by sects and are subject to human frailties.

HH shrI DayAnanda Sarasvati has formed the Hindu Dharma Acharya Sabha, in a bid to unite our various maThams, but going by their website, this apex body is scarcely, if at all, functional:
Acharya Sabha - Home

Seems we have too much religious freedom to unite under a single banner with peaceful coexistence of our various sects.

Shri Saidevo,

There are still a few temples, I suppose, which are not under the HR&CE administration; they are managed by private trusts. Our kuladeivam temple near Palayamkottai is one such. We pay roughly 5% of our income for this temple; this is revised from time to time by the managing committee taking into account the temple budget. Panguni Uthiram is the only and big festival day. In earlier days there was reportedly clear segregation; brahmans used to be fed inside the eating hall within the temple while non-brahmins had to eat outside in a Pandal set up for that day. Now we have built a permanent Pandal sort of walkway all around the temple with plastic material for roof. All people irrespective of caste have to eat together, both within and outside under the Pandal walkway. I understand that a very large crowd of thousands come for the meals and, due to paucity of persons to serve, the feast ends only by late evening.

It will not be difficult to stock foodgrains and other basic necessities in the temple and distribute them to BPL people etc., but the unfortunate part is the temple management committee is fully orthodox and will not be receptive to any such ideas.

This is the bane of hinduism and I hope our members here fully understand this even when they are exercised very much by conversions. The question, therefore, is how do we change our hindu religious structure so that it becomes as effective as Xianity in looking after the poor and deprived sections of the hindu population?
 
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