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Echos of Partition

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I always thought that the Hindus were short changed by the partition. Narain Kataria from New York articulates this forcefully and I wish to share it with you.

"Hindus have not just one but one million reasons to be angry at
Muslims in India. Let me list only a few of them for Mr. Kawaja's
kind-hearted understanding, even though I believe Mr. Kawaja is
deliberately acting to be ignorant of the reasons behind this Hindu
mindset and the history – past and present. So, I will try to make
it as simple and as clear for him as possible… and, for all
those 'secularists' and Leftists who pretend to be naive just like
Mr. Kawaja.

1. First of all, Hindus hold Muslims responsible for the
vivisection of their country that they consider as their MOTHER.
Hindus adorably call it Bharat-Mata, Matru-Bhoomi, Puniya-Bhoomi,
Dharma-Bhoomi, Swarag-Bhoomi, etc.

2. Hindus cannot understand why the Muslims are still living in
India. It is a well-known fact that in 1946 elections, more than
90% of the Muslims voted for the breakup of the greater India and
the creation of a Muslim land called Pakistan. Despite getting
their Muslim land – believe it or not – only 15% Muslims left for
the Pakistan and 85% of them stayed put in India. Hindus really want
all these Muslims living in India to leave Hindus alone in their
country.

3. Hindus are upset that Muslims are having a cake and want to
eat it too. Thus, Hindus can see that Muslims have opened a
separate bank account for Muslims in Pakistan and Bangladesh, while
they are operating a joint bank account with Hindus in India. This
is not right and absolutely unfair. Hindus do not want to share the
India with Muslims.

4. Again, at the time of Partition of India in 1947, there were
20% Hindus and Sikhs in Pakistan. Now there are only 1% or so. In
1947 there were more than 30% Hindus in East Pakistan (now
Bangladesh), at this time there are only 8% Hindus there. Hindus
want Muslims to explain what happened to all those Hindus. Hindus
are absolutely unhappy about the ethnic cleansing of Hindus in
Pakistan and Bangladesh.

5. Conversely, during the same period the Muslim population in
India has been rising with leaps and bounds. Muslim numbers in
India have risen from 9% in 1951 to 15% now. Hindus abhor this. In
the unprecedented rise of Muslim population in India, Hindus clearly
see a mortal threat to their very existence as Hindus. They see this
as a conspiracy to breakup and divide their country all over again.

6. Hindus simply will never be able to forget the massive scale
of rapes, murders, loot and mayhem let lose by Muslims on the
peaceful Hindus in Kashmir and the vicious ethnic cleansing in their
own country.

7. How can Hindus forget massacre of our 35 Sikh brothers at
Chattisinghpora in the State of Jammu and Kashmir in year 2000, an
attack on Jammu and Kashmir State Legislature in October, 2001,
another attack on the India's National Parliament in December 2001,
yet another attack on the American Cultural Center in January 2002,
the roasting alive of 56 women and children in February 2002 at
Godhra Railway Station in Gujarat State, the killing of more than 30
members of families of Army personnel in May 2002, serial bomb
attacks on passenger trains and public places in the country's
financial capital Mumbai on August 2005 that killed 46 people and
injured 160, another devilish attack on the Hindu religious place,
the Akshardham Temple in September 2002 – 29 individuals including
16 women and four children killed, the butchering of Hindus in Mau
in State of Uttar Pradesh, the Delhi bomb blasts in October 2005 –
70 people killed, massacre of Gujjars in Doda and Udhampur, in
State of Jammu and Kashmir in May 2006, a second series of Mumbai
train bomb blasts in July 2006 – 200 people dead, a separate series
of bomb blasts in Lucknow, Varanasi, Jaipur, Ahmedabad and Bangluru –
hundreds killed.

8. While Hindus in Jammu agitating for the legitimate rights of
Hindu pilgrims in Amernath raise the slogan of Bharat Mata ki Jai,
the Muslims in Srinagar, to the great mortification and chagrin of
Hindus, wave green flags of Pakistan and openly raise the slogans of
Pakistan Zindabad (long live Pakistan)! This treacherous behavior
of Muslims is unacceptable and outrageous to Hindus and causes a
serious heartburn to them.

9. Recently, in a shocking disclosure, India's National
Security Advisor, M.K. Narayanan while talking to newsmen in
Singapore disclosed that 800 terrorist cells are operating in the
country. These home grown terrorists are none other than the Indian
Muslims who provide shelter, guidance, financial assistance and
other infrastructure facilities to the terrorists to kill more and
more Hindus and destabilize Indian economy. Hindus have every
reason to express their indignation and angst at this blatant anti-
national activity.

10. All Kashmiri Muslims are doing roaring business all over
India. There are Haj Houses all over the country. But the Muslim
leaders are openly and repeatedly declaring that they would not
give "an inch of land" in Hindu India to Shri Amarnath Shrine
Board. What an act of ingratitude!

11. Hindus simply cannot erase from their memory the Great Killings
of Calcutta on August 16-17, 1946 in which more than 5,000 Hindus
were butchered by Muslim fanatics supported by the Muslim Chief
Minister of Bengal. Hindus also vividly recall the genocide of
5,000 unarmed Hindus in Noakhali in Bengal State around the same
time. Hindus simply cannot forget the beastly brutalities
perpetrated by the West Pakistani Muslim military establishment on
the East Pakistan Hindus during the Bangladesh uprising in 1971.
Events like these are unparalleled in the history of humanity.

12. Describing the unimaginable capacity of the Muslim mind to
conduct the dance of devil, Mr. A. Ghosh, the celebrated author of
book "Kafir and Quran," writes: "In many cases a whole community (of
Hindus in East Pakistan) was encircled. Mothers and daughters were
raped on a mass scale, in presence of brothers or fathers. Breasts
of elderly ladies were chopped off. Pregnant women were
disemboweled; infants' heads were smashed on the floor. Then
followed the chopping off of genitals, gouging out of eyes, and on
and on and on. As a grand finale, everybody was put in a house and
the house was set on fire."

(contd.)
 
contd..

13. Hindus also remember very well as to how the Sikh Guru Arjun
Dev was made to sit on a hot plate over the raging fire and the hot
sand was poured over his body… until he died. Hindus and Sikhs will
never be able to forget as to how another Sikh Guru, Teg Bahadur
Saheb, was murdered in cold blood by the Muslims because he refused
to convert to Islam. Hindus remember the two young sons of the last
Sikh Guru, Gobind Singh, who were bricked alive by the Muslim ruler,
as they refused to embrace the Islam.

14. For the information of Mr. Kawaja, listed here are only a few
of the Muslim militant organizations that preach hatred and violence
against the Kafirs… principally the Hindus, Sikhs, Jains and
Buddhists… and are working overtime to establish Nizame-Mustafa (the
Islamic domination) in India: (1) Muslim Volunteer Force, (2)
Islamic Revolutionary Front, (3) Islamic Liberation Army of Assam,
(4) Jamait-e-Islami, (4) Hurriyat Conference, (5) Jamit-al-Quran
Hadis, (6) Tamilnadu Muslim Munnetra Kazhagam, (7) Al Ummah, (8)
Islamic Movement of India, (8) Student Islamic Movement of India
(the notorious SIMI), (9) Islamic Youth Center, (10) Jihad
Committee, (11) Muslim United Liberation Tigers of Assam, (12)
Muslim Liberation Front of Assam, (13) Al Huda, (14) Jehad, (15)
Tehreek-ul-Mujahide en, (16) National Democratic Front, (17) Mili
Parliament, (18) Indian Muslim Mohammadi Mujahideen, and (19) Indian
Mujaheden. The principal aim of all the above groups is the
annihilation of Hindus.

15. Hindus in India and the Indian subcontinent have witnessed an
unprecedented continued chain of barbarism by Muslims in the last
1400 years. In 712 A.D., the then Governor of Iraq sitting two
thousand miles away from the Indian capital Delhi, ordered the Iraqi
Muslim ruler in India to bring about the destruction on unbeliever
Hindus (unbeliever: the Hindus that do not believe in Islam) if they
did not accept Islam. The historical chronicles tell us that in the
merciless slaughter that ensued, 26,000 Hindu men were murdered and
20,000 young Hindu girls were enslaved and dispatched to Khalifa in
Baghdad.

16. Akbar was the slaughterer of Hindus. Jahangir, in his
autobiography "Tarikh-i-Salim Shahi" wrote that under Akbar and
Jahangir "five to six hundred thousand (over half a million) Hindus
were killed." (Tarikh-i-Salim: Translated By Price, pp. 225-6). In
Akbar's military conquest of Chittor in the State of Rajasthan, Abul
Fazl recorded that "on Akbar's orders, eight thousand Rajput
warriors were first disarmed and then slain; along with them forty
thousand peasants also were slain." (The Islamic treatment of PoW,
Surah 8, Ayat 67, the Quran) (Akbarnama by Abul Fazl translated into
English by H. Beveridge)

We can go on and on and on… with the never-ending saga of Muslim
misdeeds against the Hindus. Hindus may not have readily available
with them the specific details of the each one of the above acts of
extreme Muslim brutality. The Hindu 'secular' leadership also takes
extreme pains to ensure that the endless tails of Muslim atrocities…
against the Hindus… do not get recalled, remembered, written,
memorialized, entered in history books, or spoken from the public
platforms.
But the naked truth is that the painful wounds of Muslim savagery,
treachery, betrayal, deceit, dishonesty, disloyalty, duplicity… on
the naïve Hindu psyche… are too numerous to count and too deep to
heal.
These painful sores of history – the distant past and still ongoing –
have traumatized the Hindus so much and for so long that they just
cannot be healed, nor can their memory be completely erased from the
Hindu subconscious mind. Hindu mind will continue to be haunted and
tortured at the slightest glimpse of the classic pattern of Muslim
dishonesty and betrayal.

Does Mr. Kawaja need any more reasons, any more examples, to explain
why Hindus don't trust Muslims and why they appear to be angry at
Muslims?

Over 400,000 Kashmiri Hindu pundits were kicked out from their homes
in Indian soil of Kashmir, by fanatic Muslim hoodlums, while none of
the Muslim terrorists have been kicked out from India, for vote bank
politics. This called Justice congress style. !!

After all, the ancestors of the current crop of islamists were all
Hindus just 8 centuries ago -- a simple reality that should be
recognized by all. What are the chances the islamist terrorists will
accept this reality? If this happens, it could open up a new
opportunity for paraavartan -- home-coming to sanatana dharma.

Pakistani Muslim hoodlum have set up mini Pakistan, on the Indian
soil of Kashmir, Our Indian governments remained silent when over
400,000 Kashmiri Hindu pundits were kicked out from
Kashmir.Similarly, Bangladeshi criminals have invaded many Indian
cities, brcause of our impotent and ineffective laws.

Our government has failed to punish Muslim terrorists like Afzal
Guru, which has encouraged Muslim terrorists to continue their evil,
destructive activities in India.

Indian government must pass strict, effective laws, that will deal
with terrorists and anti Indian elements on Indian soil.
How long we will tolerate impotent rules in our country, which can
not protect innocent citizens of India.!!
 
Namaste,

Forgive me but...H-o-l-y c-r-a-p. I don't know what to say after reading about those atrocities. This is like Nazi Germany all over again, only it's Muslims trying to eliminate us.

Is there anything us American Hindus can do to help the situation?

I pray that all our brethren that converted to Islam will come back to Sanathana Dharma, and may they be welcomed with open arms. Furthermore, I pray that they be given safe asylum because I'm sure we all know what happens to an apostate from Islam. Aum.

Regards,

Justin
 
Dear Sri Justin Ji,

Not everything you read is the truth. I am a practicing Hindu and I strive for truth in what I say and write. That is what Sanatana Dharma teaches me. So, here is my perspective on the above long postings on partition and Muslim atrocities:

1. Mr. Kataria is absolutely and totally wrong when he says that 95% of the Muslims in India voted for the partition (or voted fo Jinnah's party which clamoured for partition) in 1946 elections. What he has not told you is that only 14% of the entire Muslim voting age population in India voted in the election. And only 75% of those voted in that election voted for the Muslim League, favouring partition. Why? Because the British in 1935 amended the election franchise law. This law varied by each state, but in general, only the property owners and certain tax payers were allowed to vote! I challenge anyone to refute the above facts.

2. Nehru, leading to the elections, had a 'Muslim Communication' program, which attracted millions of Muslims to his message of one India. Unfortunately, Jinnah, knowing the election rules campaigned among the wealthy during the election. Hence in a minority voice which voted, he got the majority. Nehru got the majority of muslims too, but not till 1952 when all of them were enfranchised.

3. The British Government mainly and Gandhi, Nehru and Jinnah and scores of others played a part in making the muslims opt for Pakistan, that too a minority wealthy muslims. This is well documented by the fact that there were 13 land owning Zamindars who still rule Pakistan, in many ways. In fact NWFT and Baluchi muslims did not want to be part of Pakistan and even now harbor favourable ties with India, despite the Talibanization.

4. Now to the muslim atrocities of the past. Societies evolve in to more civilized socities. Who can forget that a now 'civilized' Europe having such a horrible violent past? What about the Chinese, Mongols and the Japanese? A lot of western countries colonized one time. Now we live in supposedly civilized times. To search for justice today for past mis-deeds of a people's forefathers is lunacy. Use the democratic process to address issues. But of course, the so called justice seekers do not want to do that. Why? Because they want to make India a total Hindu country at the cost of other INDIANS. They want both the Christians and the Muslims, who have been in India, living for a long time to be driven away! This is why they want to create violence and chaos, instead of democratically working through the process.

To blame entire communities for the acts of a minorty in that community shows the design: Use the current chaos to marginalize the minorities, drive them of India, all in the name of a perceived wounding of a majority religion that is thriving!

So, please thing carefully and read a lot before coming to some pat conculsions.

Regards,
KRS

Namaste,

Forgive me but...H-o-l-y c-r-a-p. I don't know what to say after reading about those atrocities. This is like Nazi Germany all over again, only it's Muslims trying to eliminate us.

Is there anything us American Hindus can do to help the situation?

I pray that all our brethren that converted to Islam will come back to Sanathana Dharma, and may they be welcomed with open arms. Furthermore, I pray that they be given safe asylum because I'm sure we all know what happens to an apostate from Islam. Aum.

Regards,

Justin
 
Dear Justin and friends,

Once again wishful statistics are presented to speak for the enemy. For example "In fact NWFT and Baluchi muslims did not want to be part of Pakistan and even now harbor favourable ties with India, despite the Talibanization." (emphasis mine) Do we have to believe this after the Talibans highjacked our Indian Airlines plane and held our Hindu brotheren hostage?

We are sermonized " Now to the muslim atrocities of the past. Societies evolve in to more civilized socities." We know the evolution; they have become experts in serial bombing and unheard of terrorism much more frequently, Godhra carnage notwithstanding.

Dear Brothers and Sisters, Look around and see for yourself the Muslim evolution in Afganistan, Pakistan and Bangladesh and Malaysia in how they treat their minorities (Hindus, Buddists, Sikhs and Christians) or even how they treat their own women in particular.

Do we the Hindus need the sermonization from someone whose profession is known from what he preaches?


We have to teach these terrorist criminals and their agents a lesson that they never forget!

Bharat Mata ki Jai!
 
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Jaitley accuses UPA of double standards on Godhra
26 Sep, 2008, 0459 hrs IST, ET Bureau


NEW DELHI: The BJP on Thursday described the attack on the Nanavati panel’s findings as yet another instance of shifting the goal posts on secularism. BJP leader Arun Jaitley said ‘secularists’ appears to have made the defence of the train burning incident part of their commitment to the ‘secular cause’.

“This is not the only instance. Jamia Milia vice-chancellor Mushirul Hasan’s offer of legal aid to the two terror detainees shows a similar trend. Hasan had said that the decision was based on the commitment to faith and university. The commitment should be to the state and nation. Any state or instrumentality of the state rendering its shoulder in support of a terror accused would set a wrong precedent,” Mr Jaitley said. He also added said that there is already a provision by which the state provides for legal representation to those who cannot afford one on their own.

The BJP leader said the same mindset is evident in the support for Simi. He said the support of senior ministers for Simi, which is held responsible for terror outrages by the government’s own security agencies, show that the regime and its leaders can go to any extent in furtherance of their cynical aim.

The BJP said the UPA government’s constant dithering on a tough terror law underlines the real nature of the UPA’s ‘secularism’. The BJP said the UPA leaders said a ‘perception equality’ is created between those who want to break the nation and those who want unity of the nation.

This ‘perceptional equality’ is evident when a comparison is made between the Hurriyat and the Shri Amarnath Sangarsh Samiti. Mr Jaitley said the victimhood politics, a favourite pastime of the UPA, also stems from this flawed understanding of secularism.

“It is coming in the way of every terror investigation. It is rising the life of every Indian,” he said. The first part of the Nanavati Commission report, which is restricted to the burning of a coach of the Sabarmati Express at Godhra, was tabled in the Gujarat assembly on Thursday.

It gave chief minister Narendra Modi and his government a clean chit and concluded that the train was attacked and torched from the outside. In doing so, it rejected the findings of railway ministry’s U C Bannerjee Committee report which had ascribed the burning of the compartment to an ‘accidental fire.”

Reacting to the Nanavati report, the BJP said that unlike the Banerjee Committee report, the Nanvati Commission had examined more than 1,000 witnesses. BJP leaders said that there was exhaustive evidence of every stage of planning of the attack.

Welcoming the Nanavati Commission’s report, BJP spokesperson Prakash Javadekar said, “This is the truth. They (Congress) can start a debate but people were burnt alive. There was fury over it. Still there was an attempt by the UPA dispensation to prove that the burning was self-immolation by Kar Sewaks”.
 
I wish if only the above poster talks sense! Hate fills his eyes and unfortunately he uses foul language (he has edited out the foul language and calling both christians and muslims with four letter words since, and he calls me a coward, later below!)and thus shows his ignorance. 'Despite the Talibanization' means that these people still like India inspite of a percentage of them got radicalized. I thought that the hi-jacking of the Indian Airlines was done by the actual Taliban, from Afghanistan!

No one is sermonizing to anyone. I would ask Sri Justin to read some detailed books about the people of NWFT and Baluchistan and their relationship to Pakistan and India, before forming your opinions. (f needed I can recommend some scholorly books).

Blaming a whole population for the misdeeds of a few of their radicals is not smart at all.

For example, please do not blame me as a Hindu for the unsavoury and thoughtless words of the above poster, who seems to portray himself as a Hindu. I do not recognize anything Hindu in his pronouncements, only ignorant hateful rants! (or is it grunts!).

Regards,
KRS
 
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I do not recognize anything Hindu in his pronouncements, only ignorant hateful rants! (or is it runts!).
You KRS is a god damn idiot and a coward and a fifth column and a muslim and christian agent lurking here as a Brahmin.

You are a crooked son of a xxxxx to call me a runt. You must be a real xxxxxxx.

Now this is not hateful rant but truth!
 
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You KRS is a god damn idiot and a coward and a fifth column and a muslim and christian agent lurking here as a Brahmin.

You are a crooked son of a bitch to call me a runt. You must be a real bastard.

Now this is not hateful rant but truth!

Desi-ji,

This is sick. KRS-ji is NOT a politician. And does not need to 'lurk' in any form.

I am most highly offended with your post. And i take the strongest objection to it.

This is a moderated decent forum. What are the admin doing?
 
Mr. Happyhindu, Why you always jump to pat KRS or jump in his defense? The answer is simple. You also post under the name KRS is everybody's knowledge.

KRS calls me a runt and this is what he gets for it that ugly scum of the earth.
 
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Dear happyhindu Ji,

Let him have his day! He speaks some Truth!

Yes, I am a muslim, christian, jew and whatever, because I am a Hindu.

He calls my mother by names. Hope his karma will not be affected by this.

I am not at all bothered, because as you would not take amiss of the words of a child, you would not take a mad man's grunts personally either!

After all his slamming of my dear old mother, I have only one thing to say to his:
Madam, yoy did not do your job properly - a wash of the mouth with soap after every outburst like this (which would have been many, judging from the easiness with which they come out), would have cured this poor boy of this terrible affliction!
Parents, please take note.

Regards,
KRS
 
Oh, vow! Shadows everywhere. People are lurking. Two people are one! I hope you live near Kilpauk.

KRS


Mr. Happyhindu, Why you always jump to pat KRS or jump in his defense? The answer is simple. You also post under the name KRS is everybody's knowledge.

You call me a runt and this is what you get for it. You ugly scum of the earth.
 
Mr. Happyhindu, You also post under the name KRS is everybody's knowledge. You call me a runt and this is what you get for it.

Good God!! Now I do not know what to say !!

I know nothing about economics or politics. And it takes a great deal of effort from my end to make sense of it since neither am i blessed with that type of level-headedness nor the sensibility to make sense of such things.

I began studying late and am a student mostly doing projects that study the genetics of a particular type of cancer. How can you call both of us the same.

I look upon KRS-ji as a guru, albeit the only online one i have found so far.
 
So the coward goes back and edits 'runt' into grunt! So he eats his own vomit!!

don't we all edit our posts? we may have a change of thinking and make the edits. btw, some ppl use the reason "amplification" as reason for editing. i don't see anything negative abt such things.

what's wrong with it?
 
I posted my edit at 9:40 - you posted yours at 9:43. I edited because I did not mean to say 'Runt'. But if you prefer that, I am more than glad to let yourself call that. Both seem to me are apt descriptions.

Vomit! I have heard this language before and I know who you are too! Cowardice? I am always KRS. Unlike you, who rolls in bovine scatology with various avatars. But I can always smell the same manure. Only a small round aperture I can see in you, I don't know where the rest of the donkey went.

KRS
 
Mr.Hyde says:

I look upon KRS-ji as a guru, albeit the only online one i have found so far.

Dr.Jekyll says:
Vomit! I have heard this language before and I know who you are too! Cowardice? I am always KRS. Unlike you, who rolls in bovine scatology with various avatars. But I can always smell the same manure. Only a small round aperture I can see in you, I don't know where the rest of the donkey went.

Great Guru-sishya combine! Tell me your Guru and I'll tell you who you are!
 
Great Guru-sishya combine! Tell me your Guru and I'll tell you who you are!

Desi-ji,

i have had too many gurus and will have many more, until i find that "one". and i do not need anyone else to tell me who i am since i realized that i can figure that out myself.
 
Dear Happy Hindu Ji,

I know you are sincere and intended to make a complimentary statement. Please do not do so in the future as you can see this 100 cell brain can not grasp those ideas. I do not want you to feel hurt.

Because this runt has taken different avatars he thinks everyone else is like him. Hey you, do you want to submit to analysis by the admins to prove this point? I am ready, if you are, you a pachderm refused food for a beetle.

KRS

Mr.Hyde says:

Dr.Jekyll says:

Great Guru-sishya combine! Tell me your Guru and I'll tell you who you are!
 
Folks,

I am sorry I had to employ countermeasures to parry the attack from this person. I never shrink from defending from these attacks. I apologize if it made you all feel uneasy.

I would like you all to carefully go back and see for yourself how and why these series of postings occurred.

You will see, when the person who posted someone else's non defendable posting and I questioned the facts therein, mis understood what I said with his unfortunately god given limited cranial capacity, and attacked! He used four letter words to describe ALL our fellow Indians, who belong to certain two abrahamic religions (which he promptly removed later, after my posting).

He then went on a verbal diahrrea, attacking my mom of all people! (of course he thought he was attacking me). He then accused Happy Hindu Ji of being me! This is all from a person, who had taken several avatars in this Forum, and who is still posting with a different handle. If need be, I can prove it.

Why all this charade on his part? Poor guy is under the grand illusion that he is defending Hinduism! His brand of Hinduism, which has no resemblance to the faith our forefathers preached. I feel sorry for the ilks of him. You saw the result of hate (and claiming to be an avowed Indian, hating the foreigners, he has a strange way of using the English curse words!), and here is a perfect specimen to teach us why we should not hate.

By the way, if any of you want to verify that I am a Brahmin Iyer Hindu, I can prove it to you. Just send me a mail.

Regards,
KRS
 
we, tamil brahmins, as a community,have been among the last ones to advocate violence. many a times, in these days, it has been interpreted as a sign of weakness.

to be encountered by a group of mocking goondas is a nightmare to most of us, essentially because the values that we are handed down. how can we even encourage our own brand of religious goondaism with this type of psyche? do two wrongs make a right?

can we imagine the fruits of this violence swallowing our father, mother, brother, sister, son, daughter, kith, kins? so indiscriminate are the results of mob induced violence. let us not wish it on us. or on others. if at all, what we need is support strong authority to curb these tendencies.

contrast this to the violence when pakistans was created. i can fairly confidently say that none of us, our kith or kin, were impacted by this event. maybe a few government servants, but these were taken care by the bureaucracies concerned.

let us sit back a few seconds, and ponder where this current tendency to advocate violence will end.

admitted, there is a large pan islamic movement outside of india, which dreams of establishing a new caliphate. it has identified the west as its primary enemy. the west is capable of taking care of itself. let us not concern with their causes, as it is a complex result of ancient pride, current sense of inadequacy, jealousy and above all frustrations with the inept corrupt leadership througout the islamic world.

we have the offshoots of the same islamic movement in india. this appears to generate similar movements among us hindus, proving that newton was correct re his primary laws.

the growth of hatred and violence, was perhaps fully exercised, and after about 50 million people perishing, was understood in modern europe, only after world war II. it took this much of toll in what was considered an advanced humanistic society to gauge adolf hitler. finally, so great was the horror, that today europeans have eschewed violence and think of themselves as one group (excuse the balkans..that is an aberration). the concept of thinking 'european' is taken for granted in their youth. such was not the case even 70 years ago.

do we have to go through similar convulusions before we come to accept ourselves as one country and one nationality.

while it is good to remember history, it is also good to remember the mores of those times. we do not have written history about our ancient wars, prior to muslim invasion. but it is understood that kalinga river ran with blood after ashoka's conquest. let us not single out islamic cruelty. madurai vaigai river flowed red with the blood of the jain monks, after the king converted to saivism. let us not indulge in selective cherry picking to fulfil a jar of hatred :(

the catholic and protestant wars of europe decimated germany to about 1/10 of its population during the medieval period (14 - 16 centuries). such was the hatred between two groups who both considered jesus christ as their leader. today, the west is a post christian world - proud of its culture but the common man gives a wide berth to the religiosity. organized religion, there is viewed with suspicion.

similar issues still exist with sunnis and shias and the killings, if iraq is an example, are on a large scale. the islamic sectarian wars have spewed forth more hatred and killings that has been recorded. any one of us can read about it if interested. violence, in the name of faith, appears to be an ubridled blood thirsty monster. do we, tamil brahmins, want to be a part of advocating this type of horror, even in our thoughts? let alone words. it does not take too much intelligence to realize that violence is ultimately self destructive. ask any german who lived under hitler's rule.

unbridled acceptance and propagation of suspicion addressed towards communities at large, will result, in similar bloodbath in india. we do not want that. india is a nation of minorities. if we express our identity in terms of religion, language, caste etc.

a japanese or a chinese is their first level of introduction. it is the sum total of their identity. contrast that with us. it is a brahmin first, then what? indian? tamil? smartha? even,we as a community, have a precise definition of identity, of which, being an indian, is only a part. not the whole.

re those advocates of violence - instead of branding whoel communities, what is correct, is to separate the wheat from the chaff. we do have a tradition of doing that. every community has its blackest sheep. it is these who countermind the growth of trust due to their own agenda. i agree that this is easier said than done. but then, this is the challenge of democratic india. hopefully, our combined wisdom as a country of 1 billion people, will prevail.

let us ponder over the root causes of suspicion and dispel them. promote peace, for without peace from within, india would self destruct. we do not need external aggression to destroy us.
 
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Dear Friends,

While this KRS person dons his innocence and entreats to you to take his side, let us face the fact:

He called me a runt first. A runt is an animal that is small or stunted as compared with others of its kind, the smallest or weakest of a litter, esp. of pigs or puppies, an ugly old woman; hag.

Now this demented idiot thinks that he can call me the above names and get away with it. I am not one to put up with this shit and I shot back as follows:

You KRS is a god damn idiot and a coward and a fifth column and a muslim and christian agent lurking here as a Brahmin.

You are a crooked son of a xxxxx to call me a runt. You must be a real xxxxxxx.

Now this is not hateful rant but truth!
Then he went back and edited the word 'runt' into 'grunt' which means 'to utter the deep, guttural sound characteristic of a hog.' (He still keeps editing his past postings giving lies that I used four letter word. i guess he will keep doing until he goes back to the womb!). So it is truly a cowardly act of deception which ofcourse is like a dog eating its vomit to hide it!

This shameless guy who kept harping on his secular and dogmatic idea of the equal capability of everyone at birth suddenly reversed his stand and goes on to say
"I said with his unfortunately god given limited cranial capacity.."
He and his chela who I really believe is his narcissistic clone are the actual goondas harassing the posters in this forum. They went after a lady poster in the meanest possible way and her open complaint to the admin is for all to see.

I won't put up with goondaism and run in fear. I ask the Admin to step in and put a stop to harassment of the posters by this ruffian KRS.

So friends, take this person for what he is a Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde.
 
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Dear Sri Kunjuppu-ji,

Love you for coming back. Thankyou so very much.

Read your wonderful post twice.

Not sure if I can ever explain. But I do think it is imperative for us to forget this caste rubbish and come together as a collective hindu lot primarily first. And as a peaceful lot engage our fellow Indians of other religions, the peaceful way. All Indians need each others' support and numbers.

Without unity at the grassroots amongst ourselves, how are we going to counter the politicians. The politician-mafia -> mafia-underworld -> underworld-terrorism is known due to popularization even by the silliest of our movies. Cannot cast aspersions but why is so much violence happening in India? Is it merely intelligence failure?

If a muslim wishes to raise his voice against a fellow muslim for his fanatical-intent, are we going to stop him and vindicate him for being a muslim himself? Or are we going to give him a sense of belonging with us as collective Indians and encourage him to speak out against fanatical elements? By branding all as the same kind, we only isolate ourselves.

Why seperate ourselves as hindu vs muslim or christian? Why allow our false pride and individual-selective history prevent us from acheiving a One-United voice? Can we not give a united 0.8 million strong voice, a chance at peace first?

i hope we do.

(ps: kunjuppuji, i promise i won't be erratic and disapper with any more deleting posts. and yes, i missed u).
 
This shameless guy who kept harping on his secular and dogmatic idea of the equal capability of everyone at birth suddenly reversed his stand and goes on to say He and his chela who I really believe is his narcissistic clone are the actual goondas harassing the posters in this forum. They went after a lady poster in the meanest possible way and her open complaint to the admin is for all to see.

I won't put up with goondaism and run in fear. I ask the Admin to step in and put a stop to harassment of the posters by this ruffian KRS.

So friends, take this person for what he is a Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde.

Desi-ji,

i do not think i can in anyway convince you that i am not KRS-ji. And i do not understand your definition of goodaism. i have not harrased anyone on this forum and i am willing to apologize if you can let me know who is this lady poster you speak of.

And yes if you think I am KRS-ji's narcissist clone, then i think you are right in a way. When am older, i do hope to emulate him. For that matter i also wish to emulate Kunjuppu-ji and Nacchinarkiniyan-ji. You may also wish to call me their clone too. I would find it a privilege to be associated with them.
 
Thanks mr. Hyde, you play your part well! You can emulate anyone in the world, it is your choice, what do I care?

Believe me, I am not going to go after you as long as you don't cross my path.
 
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