Cry the Beloved Country

[suraju06]

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Grassroots democracy in Tamilnadu is still plagued by casteism with 30% of the elected dalit panchayat presidents performing as mere rubber stamps and letting themselves to be dominated by non-dalits. A study conducted by the Tamilnadu Dalit Panchayat Presidents Forum (TNDPPF) said 150 panchayat presidents were attacked by non-dalits while they were performing their duties and two were killed since 2006. “What is ironical is that 15% of dalit panchayat presidents never occupy their official chair fearing reprisals from the upper castes” says the state advisor to the Forum, which was formed in 1996 with the help of some dalit IAS officers.

The study reports in detail two murders including that of P.Sakkaiyan, president of Nakalamuththanpatti panchayat and R.Servaaran of Maruthankinaru panchayat. Both were killed by higher caste villagers for defying their dictat. They were never allowed to sit in their seat in their offices. The report further says that 80% of dalit panchayat presidents were elected only with the approval of non-dalits. Most of the candidates contesting for dalit panchat president positions are dummies/proxies selected by the upper caste people. The upper caste members choose their servants as candidates. But after their victory they are forced to continue doing household chores and other menial jobs and are never allowed to fulfill their duties as pa nchayat presidents. M Chellammal the president of Appaneri panchayat in Kovilpatti block still works as a sweeper in a private hospital. Chellammal has never sat in the chair meant for the panchayat president.

And we have here neo-brahmin arm-chair enthusiasts bashing brahmins relentlessly saying brahmins are tormenting the lower caste people and conspiring against them day in and day out.

என் இனிய பொன் நாடே நீ அழத்தான் வேண்டும்!!

Source of info: The Times of India.

 

[C RAVI]

Grassroots democracy in Tamilnadu is still plagued by casteism with 30% of the elected dalit panchayat presidents performing as mere rubber stamps and letting themselves to be dominated by non-dalits. A study conducted by the Tamilnadu Dalit Panchayat Presidents Forum (TNDPPF) said 150 panchayat presidents were attacked by non-dalits while they were performing their duties and two were killed since 2006. “What is ironical is that 15% of dalit panchayat presidents never occupy their official chair fearing reprisals from the upper castes” says the state advisor to the Forum, which was formed in 1996 with the help of some dalit IAS officers.

The study reports in detail two murders including that of P.Sakkaiyan, president of Nakalamuththanpatti panchayat and R.Servaaran of Maruthankinaru panchayat. Both were killed by higher caste villagers for defying their dictat. They were never allowed to sit in their seat in their offices. The report further says that 80% of dalit panchayat presidents were elected only with the approval of non-dalits. Most of the candidates contesting for dalit panchat president positions are dummies/proxies selected by the upper caste people. The upper caste members choose their servants as candidates. But after their victory they are forced to continue doing household chores and other menial jobs and are never allowed to fulfill their duties as pa nchayat presidents. M Chellammal the president of Appaneri panchayat in Kovilpatti block still works as a sweeper in a private hospital. Chellammal has never sat in the chair meant for the panchayat president.

And we have here neo-brahmin arm-chair enthusiasts bashing brahmins relentlessly saying brahmins are tormenting the lower caste people and conspiring against them day in and day out.

என் இனிய பொன் நாடே நீ அழத்தான் வேண்டும்!!

Source of info: The Times of India.

Thank you so much for sharing this piece of information here with evidence, Shri Suraju.

 

[T.S.Sankara Narayanan]

It is a Shame that The Dalit leaders in Tamil Nadu are interested in Flashing their names in front of people and absolutely not interested in Uplifting poor dalit people.

For example Thirumavalavan openly statemented that his party will support PMK in all un represented areas of his party ( Dalit Panther) . This shows that he is not interested in uplifting other Dalit Parties like Puthiya Tamizagam or any other Dalit Party.

Vice Versa this is the situation of all other Dalit Parties.

First of all There is no Unity among Dalit Leaders in India especially Tamil Nadu.

 

[prasad1]

And we have here neo-brahmin arm-chair enthusiasts bashing brahmins relentlessly saying brahmins are tormenting the lower caste people and conspiring against them day in and day out.

Source of info: The Times of India.

Brilliant piece.
It is human nature to dominate others, I suppose group mentality. At individual level they will behave differently. Except in this forum. It is surprising that Brahmin bashing goes on because of personal grudge, otherwise statistics indicate the brahmins to be suppressed minority in TN.

 

[T.S.Sankara Narayanan]

Winston Churchil once said," The Last Resort of a Scoundrel is Politics"


Like the same way if DMK leader Mr.M.K has no other issue he will take up The Brahmin Bashing Issue.

In TN it is the last resort of Anti Brahmin Parties.

 

[sarang]

And vanniyar PMK is violently anti dalit!

It is a Shame that The Dalit leaders in Tamil Nadu are interested in Flashing their names in front of people and absolutely not interested in Uplifting poor dalit people.

For example Thirumavalavan openly statemented that his party will support PMK in all un represented areas of his party ( Dalit Panther) . This shows that he is not interested in uplifting other Dalit Parties like Puthiya Tamizagam or any other Dalit Party.

Vice Versa this is the situation of all other Dalit Parties.

First of all There is no Unity among Dalit Leaders in India especially Tamil Nadu.

 

[Nara]

Winston Churchil once said," The Last Resort of a Scoundrel is Politics" .

Beg your pardon dear sir, are you not active in BJP? Not that there is anything wrong with that or that I disagree with your general point .

 

[Nara]

And vanniyar PMK is violently anti dalit!

Yes Vaiiyars are terrible with Dalits, so are many dominant NB castes all over TN. This caste system is a curse on everyone in India, and the feeling is so deeply ingrained and fostered at all levels. If there is a glimmer of light in this long dark tunnel it is the youngsters daring to go for icm. When this trend achieves critical mass this long nightmare will quickly come to an end.

In this regard, I hope the progressive minded people in all castes will support and stand with these daring youngsters. This being a site where mostly Brahmins congregate I ask the progressive Brahmins to do the same. Do your bit, don't listen to those who point to atrocities committed by others as though it frees them from any responsibility to do what they can to get rid of this scourge that does indeed makes some children of Mother India to literally bleed.

Paraphrasing JFK, ask not what other castes can do eliminate this cancer, ask what you can do to make this monster called caste system a thing of the past.

Cheers!

 

[Yamaka]

Here is my two-cents on this issue -

Raju beautifully described the ground reality of Dalits in Tamil Nadu. He pointed out how the "UPPER CASTE" people are abusing the Dalits even today.

The Reformists of this Forum have been writing about this for a long time. Raju & Co have been heckling them because Brahmins are at the top of "upper caste".

Probably, now ALL Brahmins have quit as Oppressors in TN (or driven out of their Apex position), and the torch is being carried by OTHER "upper caste" people.

In any case, will Raju & Co concede that it is the Oppressive Caste Hierarchy that Brahmins started 3000 years ago is STILL ravaging the Society?

என் இனிய பொன் நாடே நீ அழத்தான் வேண்டும்!!

 

[sadagopa]

So long there is illiteracy among Dalits barring a few the problems will exist though
superficially some window dressing is done to redress their grievances.

I feel though it may take a decade unless there is a strong literacy programme for Dalits
they may not be able to stand on their own ,in which situation the upper caste take advantage of.

[email protected]

 

[Nara]

...In any case, will Raju & Co concede that it is the Oppressive Caste Hierarchy that Brahmins started 3000 years ago is STILL ravaging the Society?

Y, if you believe anything like this will be forthcoming I have a certain attractive bridge in NY for sale .

Y, suppose there is a certain automobile that tends to burst into flames quite often when it is rear-ended even at relatively slow speeds, a reasonable thing to do is to look at the design of the car. The driver who caused the accident deserves blame for that particular incident, but the car designer deserves blame for the bad design.

Now, an honest automaker will accept responsibility and redesign the car. If it is hopeless, just throw out the design and stop making such dangerous cars. Most honest car makers would do just that.

But, this car maker insists the design is great, it is cheap, it is beautiful, it runs beautifully as long as it is not rear-ended, and further, he shifts the responsibility entirely upon the drivers. This automaker keeps selling these cars with a wide network of sleazy dealerships.

The drivers causing the accidents need to be punished, but a greater and more fundamental responsibility must be placed upon the automaker. We must demand that this automaker throws out this malevolent design and stay out of the auto business altogether.

Cheers!

 

[கால பைரவன்]

The Reformists of this Forum have been writing about this for a long time. Raju & Co have been heckling them because Brahmins are at the top of "upper caste".

The hypocrisy of these self-styled reformists is one of the prime reasons for perpetuation of caste discrimination. As Raju explained, by blaming brahmins and brahmins alone for all these oppressions, they have given a life line for non-brahmin castes. The non-brahmin castes know very well that no matter how much oppression they perpetrate on dalits they will NOT be faulted and so they continue their oppression with gay abandon. There is no reason for them to stop. Why would they? They perpetrate the crime. Someone else takes the fall. Very convenient for them.

This nexus of brabas reformists and oppressive dominant non-brahmin castes needs to be fought against!

 

[Yamaka]

The hypocrisy of these self-styled reformists is one of the prime reasons for perpetuation of caste discrimination. As Raju explained, by blaming brahmins and brahmins alone for all these oppressions, they have given a life line for non-brahmin castes. The non-brahmin castes know very well that no matter how much oppression they perpetrate on dalits they will NOT be faulted and so they continue their oppression with gay abandon. There is no reason for them to stop. Why would they? They perpetrate the crime. Someone else takes the fall. Very convenient for them.

This nexus of brabas reformists and oppressive dominant non-brahmin castes needs to be fought against!

KB & Co:

The Reformists blamed the Architects of the Caste Hierarchy - the Brahmins - and the Hierarchy itself...

Now probably the Architects understand the immorality and venality of the Oppressive Hierarchy. So far so good..

But the "Middle Castes" still is perpetuating the Sins of the Structure built by the Original Architects....

What needs to be done is the Architects must pro-actively tell ALL in the Society to get out of the Oppressive Structure...

Not blaming the Reformists themselves.... they only pointed out the flaws... they did not cause any harm to anybody.

என் இனிய பொன் நாடே நீ அழத்தான் வேண்டும்!!

 

[கால பைரவன்]

The drivers causing the accidents need to be punished, but a greater and more fundamental responsibility must be placed upon the automaker. We must demand that this automaker throws out this malevolent design and stay out of the auto business altogether.

The automaker can exist in business only if consumers support it. If the auto is faulty by design, the automaker will soon run out of business. There are other automakers out there.

If a driver wants to switch, he can. In fact, this is what he did, egged on by people with vested interests who have no clue about autos. To his horror, he found out the "accidents" did not stop. They continued to happen. So he switched again. The accidents continued unabated. That is when the driver realized the problem is with himself and not with the auto or the automaker.

Of course he is not ready to accept his fault and neither do those people who advised him to switch. They wanted a bogeyman and that is the automaker. The driver never learnt to drive without causing accidents. The advisors never learnt anything about the autos or driving. The situation remained the same. Accidents continued to happen.

 

[கால பைரவன்]

But the "Middle Castes" still is perpetuating the Sins of the Structure built by the Original Architects....

What needs to be done is the Architects must pro-actively tell ALL in the Society to get out of the Oppressive Structure...

Brahmins were not the architects. The society was the architect. Brahmins cannot change the society. With brabas emerging from within, the brahmins may not be able to even save themselves.

Not blaming the Reformists themselves.... they only pointed out the flaws... they did not cause any harm to anybody.

The reformists are hand-in glove with oppressive non-brahmin castes. By protecting instead of faulting them, the reformists are squarely responsible. They have caused insurmountable harm to both brahmins (by shiting the blame on brahmins for faults of others) and dalits. Brahmin bashing is more important to them than dalit upliftment.

 

[Yamaka]

To My Dear Younger Generation:

What you read in this and other Threads here is just the generational struggle between the Reformists and the Traditionalists / Orthodoxy.

All societies / communities undergo Reformation.. Jews, Christians and Muslims take this PROCESS very seriously.. This is nothing but Introspection and Cleaning the Conscience.

What bothers the Traditionalists & Orthodoxy is the guts and spine of the Reformists who can dive deep into the psyche and ask very fundamental questions like

Who were the Architects of the Oppressive Caste Hierarchy in India?

The answer is crystal clear - the Vedam reading Sanskrit speaking Brahimins of the past!

This is the issue we are debating here.

Don't worry about this warfare - these things are inevitable - Reformists will launch a forward march no matter what the Traditionalists & Orthodoxy dream to achieve by denying the past!

More later...

 

[prasad1]

Of course we have forgotten that we were dominated by Muslims, British, and others. Some of us have conveniently selective amnesia. Being born is the first mistake, if you really want to blame on somebody. LOL

 

[prasad1]

The history is written by the victors, and they keep hollering. Even after the defeated have conceded. This is true except in US south where the defeated south has more voice.

 

[கால பைரவன்]

To all:

What you read in this and other Threads here is just the struggle between hatemongers/bashers and average people from a minority community that is being wrongly accused.

What bothers these bashers is the guts and spine of the community who inspite of being a microscopic minority is capable of consistently pointing out their hypocrisy and also expose the logical fallacy in their arguments they deem fundamental to their agenda.

This hatemongering can be seen in many societies/ communities. The Jews, christians, and, muslims themselves suffer(ed) it during different periods of time in different places. They survived because they stopped being indifferent, they stayed united and instead of being cowered down took their opponents head on.

Einstein postulated E=MC^2, which formed the basis for nuclear physics. So Einstein should be blamed for bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki?! This is the logic of these so called reformists.

This warfare is real. A person who is concerned about our community should worry about this warfare. A member wrote here a few days back that the brahmins should consider themselves lucky that they were allowed to LIVE! Yes. According to him, your life itself is a gift from non-brahmins. That is what is being written here. No one to oppose such statements.

This is not just about debating in a forum. If you lose your freedom to fight here in this forum, you will lose your right to live with dignity in the society. Stand up and be counted.

 

[Yamaka]

Was Alfred Nobel a Reformist?

Alfred Nobel invented dynamite, canons and other armaments that killed millions of people.

In his old age (60s) he introspected and asked "What did I do to the Humanity?"

The answer was his inventions, though some times helped to build road, bridges and buildings, mostly killed millions of people..

He was sad.. he repented.. and allocated about $10 millions of his Estate to Nobel Prize every year...

Yes, Alfred Nobel was a Reformist - No body today calls him "A mass murderer or hate monger"...
----------------------

Traditionalists & Orthodoxy now switch gears to call Reformists as hate mongers! What a tactical transformation!

Watch out...

 

[Nara]

...This warfare is real. A person who is concerned about our community should worry about this warfare.

An agrarian feudal system built upon the nexus among just a few privileged groups prevailed up until about 40 years ago. Brahmins provided religious and intellectual justification for this system and in turn benefited enormously. That system is undergoing seismic change. A system built over millennia is unraveling. Change can be painful, especially for those whose privilege is being taken away.

It is not surprising that the first to be toppled is the one who occupied the top spot. But the rest of the edifice will also come down, we can be certain of that just as sun rising in the east. Feudalism is the petrol on which this caste system runs. As the Indian economy becomes more industrialized and therefore more urbanized, feudalism will slowly fade away and with it caste will lose its significance. ICM is the vehicle through which this change will manifest.

Now, how all Indians and Tamils manage this change and adapt is the question. Urging people to see this as warfare and to accuse and to denounce any attempt to reform as hateful bashing is a disservice to humanity in general and in particular to the very Brahmins they purport to stand up for.

Further, the same Dalits who are violently clashing with Vanniyars and other dominant NB castes routinely join hands with each other and criticize what Brahminism stands for and those who practice it. Why is this so? When Agnivesh wants to criticize Team Anna all he had to say is "Brahmanvad" and that finds resonance with the Dalits, why is this so? To say they are brainwashed by crafty politicians is a serious miscalculation.

Those of us who raise these questions are not automatically brahmin bashers finding common cause with NB FCs. This may make you feel good, as though you have scored a KO punch, but, the reality is, to accuse us of brahmin bashing is a disservice, and a tactic to conflate and misdirect ordinary Brahmins.

I say to all, we all are in it together, this is not warfare, this is social change coming in waves and soon it will gain tsunami strength. We can deal with it together and come out the better for it, or fight it and get drowned.

love and peace to all ....

 

[C RAVI]

To all:

What you read in this and other Threads here is just the struggle between hatemongers/bashers and average people from a minority community that is being wrongly accused.

What bothers these bashers is the guts and spine of the community who inspite of being a microscopic minority is capable of consistently pointing out their hypocrisy and also expose the logical fallacy in their arguments they deem fundamental to their agenda.

This hatemongering can be seen in many societies/ communities. The Jews, christians, and, muslims themselves suffer(ed) it during different periods of time in different places. They survived because they stopped being indifferent, they stayed united and instead of being cowered down took their opponents head on.

Einstein postulated E=MC^2, which formed the basis for nuclear physics. So Einstein should be blamed for bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki?! This is the logic of these so called reformists.

This warfare is real. A person who is concerned about our community should worry about this warfare. A member wrote here a few days back that the brahmins should consider themselves lucky that they were allowed to LIVE! Yes. According to him, your life itself is a gift from non-brahmins. That is what is being written here. No one to oppose such statements.

This is not just about debating in a forum. If you lose your freedom to fight here in this forum, you will lose your right to live with dignity in the society. Stand up and be counted.

Well said Sri Kala Bhairavan..

We are totally in a different era with enormous changes in our political and social living environment, globally. The whole world is moving on towards living a dignified life with equal opportunity and freedom for all. All the reformations talking place world wide is nothing but a fair living to one and all, irrespective of what the history was. A healthy environment should exist and should continue to exist. Blame game based on history is ridiculous for the whole world to keep harping on it and fail to see the present and forsee the future.

In India, community should stay united and fight for the justice. Should fight for withdrawal of reservation systems based on caste. Should stay united and succeed at least for the better cause of the future generation.


This is what Mr.S.V.Shekar tried conveying to Brahmins. To not to shy away, not to succumb to discrimination, not to ruin onself and future generation just becaus, once upon a time there was injustice and prejudices, suppressing law caste community by all of higher/forward caste people. We, as citizens of India should claim our right and live our life with hopes and confidence.

Atleast educated people from all caste should stay united to oppose dirty politics and their mean agenda, spoiling the whole society of India. People should wake up and see what they are loosing and what personal gains politicians are targetting and achieving. People in society can well live the way they want, following their own culture/tradition/belief etc., as handed over to them from generation to generation and as what they like to follow and live. Let this be a distinct system that may continue to survive or in due course of time change to suite the circumstances. But the Government policies and strategies should be focused on uplifting the needy people based on their financial standings, irrespective of caste and creed.

Broadly there are only two classifications though out the world -

Financially Capable and Financially Incapable.

Provide for fair opportunity to deserving boys and girls, based on their competency and financial background. Caste and Religon the pupil belongs to, should never hinder with their rights, priviledges and prospects in highly domecratic country - INDIA.


True reformists are those who see the lapses in prevailing system, see what is injustice and who are the sufferers. Should voice their concern for the betterment of the total society with love and respect to all and claim themselves to be justful and true humanist.

 

[prasad1]

Ravi,
Your view is an idealist view of the world. For Brahmin bashers this does not serve their purpose as it will not get them votes or their hunger for hate mongering. Tell me of these hate mongers wants betterment of the community, no no no.
They live in history, future does not interest them (they probably do not believe it anyway). Secondly our talk of reconciliation or justice for all is taken as weakness to beat you with it. Some of the brahmin bashers are sorry for themselves either for their birth or some other incident that happened to them in the past. This is purely a venting space, they are not concerned about others. So if you genuinely want to do something for the society do it. Some of us will support it.

 

[suraju06]

Dear Yamaka,

In any case, will Raju & Co concede that it is the Oppressive Caste Hierarchy that Brahmins started 3000 years ago is STILL ravaging the Society?

There is no clear proof that the caste hierarchy was started by Brahmins. If you have any proof please provide them here. Please do not come to me with 'the handed down wisdom'.

YES. என் இனிய பொன் நாடே நீ அழத்தான் வேண்டும்!!

 

[suraju06]

Yamaka & Co.

The Reformists blamed the Architects of the Caste Hierarchy - the Brahmins - and the Hierarchy itself...

Brahmins were not the architects of the caste hierarchy. Period. Reformists here are not reformists. They are just brahmin bashers. They have not defined in the first place what they mean by "brahminism". I have been demanding this from them ever since I came to this forum more than a year back. So much for the insincerity and hypocrisy of these self appointed reformists. Yamaka, please brush up your memory by going through the archives here or consult your masters and come back with the definition. Only that will entitle you to speak about reforms here.

Now probably the Architects understand the immorality and venality of the Oppressive Hierarchy. So far so good...............But the "Middle Castes" still is perpetuating the Sins of the Structure built by the Original Architects....

Yes very true. that is the hierarchy built, sustained, nurtured and strictly implemented by the powerful, numerically politically economically superior middle caste aggregate. But the architects are cock sure that they will never be questioned because of that numerical etc. superiority. In states like Andhra, Chattisgarh etc the dalits have turned to brahmins for leadership and have taken up arms. This is history. Please read it.

What needs to be done is the Architects must pro-actively tell ALL in the Society to get out of the Oppressive Structure...

If what is meant by Architects here is brahmins, please read history again. Stories are many all over India right from the time of independence struggle. I limit my field to Tamilnadu and just one case only here for brevity. Madurai Vaidhyanatha Iyer could adopt and promote a dalit Kakkan as a Congress Leader, who went on to become a minister while the self appointed dravidian champion EV Ramaswamy could not allow a single dalit in his inner council of assistants running his party though he waxed eloquent about casteism. That is the level of hypocrisy of reformers then and even now. Are you aware that the daughter of Vaidhyanatha Iyer is still running an orphanage cum School for the dalits?

Not blaming the Reformists themselves.... they only pointed out the flaws... they did not cause any harm to anybody.

They point out what they think are flaws with brahmins only. They have no time and guts to point out any flaws of the society as a whole. That is why I call them a depraved lot.

YES. என் இனிய பொன் நாடே நீ அழத்தான் வேண்டும்!!