Change of gotram After Marriage

[Chintana]

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I see your point. And I see the quote you picked out of my posting quite consistent with this.

I agree with you in that TN seems generally more inclined towards believing in the ballyhoo of astrology and all of its related forms.

To expand on my point, I have had astrologers look at my horoscope a few times. The best ones weren't able to predict certain huge positive changes that have happened in my life. That is not to say that the stumbling blocks they talked about didn't come about. But I think prayers and self-effort helped me a huge deal in overcoming them.

I also reflected the views of Paramahansa Yogananda in my posting. I have found this particular point come true in my life.

I hope this didn't come across as "dumping a ton of bricks" on you.

E. Is fate deterministic or probabilistic process ?

Fate is actually something shaped by every individual. The horoscope/astrological chart gives an idea of the kind of challenges that can come in anybody's way but no astrology can predict individual reactions to such challenges.

If we have had enough of discussion on Gothrams (atleast i feel i have had enough), i want to pick up on this point.

I have an 'aspersion to cast' on South India, particularly TN.

I am generally a 'late nighter' & i keep surfing channels in the night especially the Big 4 Tam Channels - Sun, Vijay, Raj & Jaya.

Almost all Channels run late night shows on Astrology - Nameology, Pyramid Josyam, Gem Stone Josyam, Vasthu, Energy Treatment & what not !!!!!

I somehow get the feeling that South India especially in TN, there is a far greater reliance on Astrology as a 'tool' to overcome problems ?

I see this reflective of the tamilian trait of not having enough self-confidence, hoping against hope that ‘mandirathil maangai vilayuma’. I feel that in TN, when one goes thru a bad phase, instead of stepping up the effort & increasing thru put, people generally try to take shelter under the umbrella of the various Josyams to know how soon the problem will tide over. They don’t seem to realize that boxes in a sheet of paper, pyramids, name change & gems are poor substitutes (infact no substitute) to hardwork, commitment & success.

Before you dump a ton of bricks on me, let me state that there are programs in hindi channels too but I haven’t seen the kind of mushrooming of such programs in hindi as I have seen in tamil channels.

Another evidence for this ‘nogama nongu thingara’ hope of TN is the abundance of NBFCs (Non Banking Financial Institutions). There will be hardly any household in TN which has not lost some amount investing in such ‘dacalty’ NBFCs which offered upwards of 30% interest.

I have some basis for saying this. About 10 years ago when NBFC frauds were the order of the day, there was a report which stated that out of 200 or so NBFCs in India about 180 or 90% were in TN.

People were sure gullible, but the point that there is an attitude of ‘easy buck’ in TN shouldn’t be lost sight of.

I hope people realize the futility of depending on such ‘crutches’ and realize that there is no shortcut to success.

Serendipity needn’t be ignored but someone who only believes in that has all my pity.[/quote]

 

[Chintana]

Astrologers and miracle workers

This has specific reference to the postings of Hari and Lotus_Quartz regarding astrology and miracle workers.

What lotus_quartz seems to refer to is a "miracle worker". I, of course, do not know of this specific case but I do know that it is not uncommon for those who dabble in yogic practices to develop such powers. The case of this miracle worker definitely needs to be investigated more to check if the person has experienced God. As to whether there are other such examples in the south, Kumudam online regularly publishes stories about siddha yogis who have done equally strange things. Do check it out.

What Hari brought up was specifically the issue of astrology/astrologers. We must recognize that the two are different.

As savvy "consumers" (for lack of a better word) of spirituality we must learn to distinguish its different shades to be able to see it for what it is.

Comparing astrologers to yogis is like comparing apples to oranges. They need different parameters for measurement and hence cannot be compared. [Note: one can compare only similar things otherwise the comparison itself will not make sense].

 

[hariharan1972]

This sure does take the cake !

Sample this:

On the Bombay-Allahabad route, a little beyond Katni Jn. resides one Sadhoo Baba.

He blesses every one who visits him by kicking him on his back. It is beleived that his kick cures you of chronic ailments.

Every day, a whole lot of people throng to see him !

Can south match it with anything remotely parallel ?

LQ, Good one. Whoever said 'you need a kick on the backside to improve' would be chuckling i guess.

I don't have an immediate equivalent from South.

BTW isn't it strange that this 'baba' is called "Sadhoo" baba - may be 'Bruce Lee' baba would be more appropriate ?

 

[Chintana]

Good sense of humor Hari. I had a good laugh.

LQ, Good one. Whoever said 'you need a kick on the backside to improve' would be chuckling i guess.

I don't have an immediate equivalent from South.

BTW isn't it strange that this 'baba' is called "Sadhoo" baba - may be 'Bruce Lee' baba would be more appropriate ?

 

[hariharan1972]

Technicalities apart

What Hari brought up was specifically the issue of astrology/astrologers. We must recognize that the two are different.

Chintana,

I agree. Technically these two are different. However from a larger perspective, both signify a tendency to 'depend on everyone & everything else' rather than "themselves" to come out of the rut. Hope you agree.

Sidda Yogis - I have heard about them & also seen badly made Sun TV channel soaps on 'battle of SYs' where one SY is a villain & another is a hero.
I don't believe in any of these guys partly because i don't know much.

However i should share an 'experience' of mine. When i first started working, i was away from my family & i hated travelling back to hometown. (can't miss weekend beer parties, can i ?). So it was my practice to pickup books from a library & read. It was "par for course" for me to finish off 3 to 4 books in a weekend.

One sunday i was reading a book which i loosely remember was titled "Experience of a Himalayan Master" or some such thing. As usual i was reading at a furious pace from dawn to dusk. When i had finished about 70% of the book, around evening i was developing a feeling which i can best describe a cross between nauseau & hallucination ! (not because of the previous evening drink, i promise !)

I put the book away & took me couple of hours to recover. Normally i remember what i read but this is one book i don't remember anything about except that i read in the book that the "Himalayan Master" (Guru of the guy who wrote the book) ate "28 meals in a day".

Till date i haven't dared to pick another book of similar content.

 

[Chintana]

Hari, I couldn't help enjoying your sense of humor. But more pointedly, to your specific query I am going to respond via PM. If you think it is appropriate please share it with others by posting it in this thread.

Chintana,

I agree. Technically these two are different. However from a larger perspective, both signify a tendency to 'depend on everyone & everything else' rather than "themselves" to come out of the rut. Hope you agree.

Sidda Yogis - I have heard about them & also seen badly made Sun TV channel soaps on 'battle of SYs' where one SY is a villain & another is a hero.
I don't believe in any of these guys partly because i don't know much.

However i should share an 'experience' of mine. When i first started working, i was away from my family & i hated travelling back to hometown. (can't miss weekend beer parties, can i ?). So it was my practice to pickup books from a library & read. It was "par for course" for me to finish off 3 to 4 books in a weekend.

One sunday i was reading a book which i loosely remember was titled "Experience of a Himalayan Master" or some such thing. As usual i was reading at a furious pace from dawn to dusk. When i had finished about 70% of the book, around evening i was developing a feeling which i can best describe a cross between nauseau & hallucination ! (not because of the previous evening drink, i promise !)

I put the book away & took me couple of hours to recover. Normally i remember what i read but this is one book i don't remember anything about except that i read in the book that the "Himalayan Master" (Guru of the guy who wrote the book) ate "28 meals in a day".

Till date i haven't dared to pick another book of similar content.

 

[Chintana]

I'd like to respond to this point of yours, Hari.

There is a difference even in the quality of dependence.

When one depends on a yogi, one does get blessings and usually such blessings serve as a triggering point to start a deeper soul quest.

A true yogi is not a fool, although very compassionate. If s/he realizes that the person coming for blessings are 'free-riders' that person usually will go way from the seeker's life. It is usually the seeker's loss. Yogis will never condemn people. If they find that their messages are not reaching they will reach out to receptive hearts (only if they so choose; usually they don't have to do that; they do it only as a service to humanity, consequently a service to God).

But an astrologer cannot tell the difference between a seeker and a free-rider. Astrologers, some of them, may have developed intuition and hence have "accurate" predictions but they really don't have the capability to help anybody to change their lives.

Yogis can.

Dependence on yogis means taking up responsibility for one's own growth at some level.

Dependence on astrologers usually means "mandirathaal maangaai" as you so eloquently put it.

Chintana,

I agree. Technically these two are different. However from a larger perspective, both signify a tendency to 'depend on everyone & everything else' rather than "themselves" to come out of the rut. Hope you agree.

 

[lotus_quartz]

As Hindus, we are a strange mix of people.

Some of us consider ourselves to be inherently superior to others (may be, nothing wrong up to this point) and delude ourselves that our superiority over others automatically transfers to to our progenies also (that, I would term as something seriously wrong).

Another aspect of this is our tendency to accord superior status to others on strange grounds, not entirely rational.

One such example was brought out by R.K.Narayan in his story "Guide" which was successfully filmed with Dev Anand in the lead role. In the story, an ex-jailbird who makes the courtyard of a dilpidated temple as his home in some village soon acquires the fame of being a yogi. Villagers spread the news like wildfire and in no time, every one starts thinking him to be a great Sadhoo Baba with miraculous powers !

Such things have happened primarily due to two reasons: The literate, educated section of Hindus (sorry to bring out, but we carry the can) did not act with wisdom in propogating knowldge and education to all but kept on alienating themselves from the rest and tying themselves in ritualism leaving the field open to all sorts of conmen and godmen; and
The conmen and godmen feasted on the simplicity of the illiterate, uneducated masses and propogated numerous blind beliefs, ill practices and what not. Examples could be the practice of child marriage, disallowing widow re-marriage, inferior status of women in the society, dowry etc.

LQ, Good one. Whoever said 'you need a kick on the backside to improve' would be chuckling i guess.

I don't have an immediate equivalent from South.

BTW isn't it strange that this 'baba' is called "Sadhoo" baba - may be 'Bruce Lee' baba would be more appropriate ?

 

[silverfox]

Dear Sri Venkataraman:
Would you happen to have one on 'kaushika' gotram? Are 'Kaushika' and 'Viswamitra' gotrams the same? (since they both are one and the same).
Thank you.


<<< I have a chart of a Pravaram for 'Sri Vathsa Gothram' it pictures the clan and the descendant Rishis in an inverted tree structure, let me find it and if possible share it with you all.

http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/editpost.php?do=editpost&p=7110
>>>>

 

[NARAS]

sirs- kasushika kothram is named after king kusha, whose great grand son was vishwamitra, who was also known as kausika. viswamitra kothram is directly traced to sage viswamithra. hence, i think these 2 gothrams are different.

 

[KRS]

Sirs,

I think Vishwamitra came first as he is one of the Saptha Rishis.

One thing I know is that these Gothrams differ somewhat depending on the region of India one hails from. There are as much as twent Gothras mentioned. One needs to also take care of veriations within this in terms of Sutras etc. to exactly know the lineage.

While 'Y' is 1/4 th of a person, the rest of the 3/4 th come from the 'X'. This is why, within our community we see a quite a bit of congenital diseases as we completely ignore the importance of the three 'X' s in one's genetic make up. I have incidences of congenital diseases in my extended family of immediate cousins (sons/daughters of my father's/mother's siblings) to the tune of 7 out of 24 (almost 30%).

While we are proud to have descended from one of the Saptha Rishis, we do not keep track of our mothers who make up our genes also. A great system, but alas, which does not quite live up to the current knowledge in terms of marriage and begetting healthy children.

Pranams,
KRS

 

[viju]

Gothras of non brahmin community

SIRS,
I would like to point out that even non brahmins like karuneegar community do have gothras.Even some of the gothras are similar in brahmin community and karuneegar community(For example,Vishwamitra).The karuneegar community (kayaastha in north) people are the descendants of Lord Chitragupta.Does anyone know about this???

sirs - gothram is only for a peron who marries a bramin male,
whose father is a bramin or who has been adopted by a bramin male . there cannot be any gothram for a person who converts from other religions. there is also no gothram for non bramins. but some bramins who converted to non brahminism and vice versa do continue to claim gothras. but i think this is not on par with the gothrams of bramins.

i do not think gods have any gothram, because they are common to all. gothram is traced from 7 saints and it is believed all bramins are descendants of these 7 rishis.

gothrams and natcharas do determine fate of individual.

it is believed you are born in this particular caste or gothra or star only because of your karma in your previous birth. depending on your karma in this birth, your caste/ gothra / star will be decided by god in your next birth!!

 

[NARAS]

sirs - i wonder whether karuneegars are converts from bramins to non braminism.

 

[viju]

Gothras of non brahmin community

I read that Lord chitragupta is the 17th creation of Lord Bramha,created in entirety [KAYA] from the lords body, unlike the other 16 sons who were created only from various parts of the body. Shree Chitraguptjee (& hence the Kayastha's) were accorded a dual caste status, namely KSHATRITYA [Warrior] and BRAHMIN [The Learned].In karuneegar community,they do wear poonul and they do have gothras like koushika,barathwaja(total gothras=around 64 i suppose).Now iam confused,who they are actually???
Regards,
Vijayalakshmi.

sirs - i wonder whether karuneegars are converts from bramins to non braminism.