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Can someone advice me about how to change the Gothram

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Today's acharyas, both vaishnavite and saivite, are aware of and exposed to the world and the happenings. Many sishyas too often face such dilemmas and pose those questions. The gurus are sympathetic and offer answers which are in line with tradition, their understanding of sastras and prevailing social conditions. Answers may differ depending on whether the question is asked pre or post event, but answers are given, and the individual is free to do what he wants. Even when people ask for forgiveness and suggestions for prayaschittas, the answer is mostly - forget the past, do start from today sandhya or pitru karmas etc. Prayaschittas if suggested are for personal purification by recitation of stotras etc.

It is simpler and straight forward if the husband and wife agree to follow the advice or instructions given. Of course they are free to do what they want if the advice is a strict 'no' or unacceptable to them.

The aim is to bring the couple or the repenter/seeker to get back into the community traditions.


I have seen people who convert to other religions for the sake of marriage and then try to crawl back to the back door to their original religion.

Some people also pick and choose what traditions they want to follow or what they want to discard.

For me I gave my personal opinion here cos I believe in the All or None Phenomenon...that is we have to decide what we would like to be..either a traditionalist or a rationalist..cos this crawling back to religion/tradition..pick and choose what we like seems some what like unsteady to me.

So for its me its simple..I rather be a rationalist and try to see logic in anything and everything.

If a tradition has logic I would not mind using that tradition as a guide but the final decision will be based on my Viveka and not blindly follow anything which seems logical at first glance cos we have to take into consideration time,place and person...but so far in life I have relied more on my rational thinking.... and tradition has not really been my lifestyle.
 
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I have done my bit to help the OP by sending a PM to Sri. Gopalan who seems to have missed seeing this thread so far. :)
 
I have seen people who convert to other religions for the sake of marriage and then try to crawl back to the back door to their original religion.

Some people also pick and choose what traditions they want to follow or what they want to discard.

For me I gave my personal opinion here cos I believe in the All or None Phenomenon...that is we have to decide what we would like to be..either a traditionalist or a rationalist..cos this crawling back to religion/tradition..pick and choose what we like seems some what like unsteady to me.

So for its me its simple..I rather be a rationalist and try to see logic in anything and everything.

If a tradition has logic I would not mind using that tradition as a guide but the final decision will be based on my Viveka and not blindly follow anything which seems logical at first glance cos we have to take into consideration time,place and person...but so far in life I have relied more on my rational thinking.... and tradition has not really been my lifestyle.


Dr Renu

There is an assumption in your post that tradition is illogical and tradition & logic are mutually exclusive.

In what we call Hinduism, a good part of tradition is actually based on sound logic. The practicing people may be ill informed and may be doing things without understanding. But religious traditions cannot be defined necessarily by misinformed people even if they form a large segment of the practicing population.

I do not know many rituals in details but what I know is deeply rooted in irrefutable logic.

The marriage ritual, Gotra concept (like having a last name or family name in the west) , traditions of who is responsible to do the 'Karyam' etc to name a few are rooted in common sense and logic (to avoid issues in the future).

The 'All' or 'Nothing' is a false choice when it comes to many (not all) Hindu practices. Anyway that is my understanding.

The OP was about a thoughtful question - with changes interpretations requires going back to fundamentals and basis for a given ritual.
 
kanya dhanam is the essence of gothra change in the absence of this why think of method? Good you reconcile to automatic if she agrees for such change.
 
Dr Renu

There is an assumption in your post that tradition is illogical and tradition & logic are mutually exclusive.

In what we call Hinduism, a good part of tradition is actually based on sound logic. The practicing people may be ill informed and may be doing things without understanding. But religious traditions cannot be defined necessarily by misinformed people even if they form a large segment of the practicing population.

I do not know many rituals in details but what I know is deeply rooted in irrefutable logic.

The marriage ritual, Gotra concept (like having a last name or family name in the west) , traditions of who is responsible to do the 'Karyam' etc to name a few are rooted in common sense and logic (to avoid issues in the future).

The 'All' or 'Nothing' is a false choice when it comes to many (not all) Hindu practices. Anyway that is my understanding.

The OP was about a thoughtful question - with changes interpretations requires going back to fundamentals and basis for a given ritual.

Dear TKS ji,

I guess many would have got that impression but I did mention this line:

If a tradition has logic I would not mind using that tradition as a guide

But I dont agree that all traditions have logic..so I usually run my life trying to stay within the dictates of the law of the country.

I know about the last name of the west which I myself sort of disagree with that.
It fine if kids take the father's surname but for all practical purposes I believe in using my maiden name till death cos technically speaking DNA can not change so why should a female change her last name or Gotra?

So for me both the western changing the wifes last name and the Indian Gotra system is not fair to women in my opinion.

I still remember was a a young teen my parents imposed a rule that during certain times of the month a female cant enter the prayer room..to which I asked them (and I got lots of scolding for that!LOL )..I asked them "you mean to say God is only in the prayer room?"

They had no idea I never followed what they imposed cos for me I felt there was no logic in that and maybe it was just a tradition passed down based on times before.

So far the only time tested tradition I follow is not to harm anyone.
 
Dear TKS ji,

I guess many would have got that impression but I did mention this line:



But I dont agree that all traditions have logic..so I usually run my life trying to stay within the dictates of the law of the country.

I know about the last name of the west which I myself sort of disagree with that.
It fine if kids take the father's surname but for all practical purposes I believe in using my maiden name till death cos technically speaking DNA can not change so why should a female change her last name or Gotra?

So for me both the western changing the wifes last name and the Indian Gotra system is not fair to women in my opinion.

I still remember was a a young teen my parents imposed a rule that during certain times of the month a female cant enter the prayer room..to which I asked them (and I got lots of scolding for that!LOL )..I asked them "you mean to say God is only in the prayer room?"

They had no idea I never followed what they imposed cos for me I felt there was no logic in that and maybe it was just a tradition passed down based on times before.

So far the only time tested tradition I follow is not to harm anyone.

Many South Indians do not have a concept of last name, we carry our 'initials' as first name of our father's name and sometimes the first initial of the town we hail from. I had to invent a means to map my name as last name when I came to USA. We ended up creating a last name concept and it is for general harmony where we live since many different last names may cause issues the way systems are designed to process.


Each tradition has its own naming structure with its own logic. Children taking on last name of the father is not always practiced even in the west. Wife does not always change the last name after marriage.

Chinese from some province that I know have their own naming system.

The reason for all such naming has a logic behind and often the logic itself is well intentioned.

If anyone views that these have to be related to sense of ego assertion, then there are issues in the minds of those that take this beyond a convention.

This convention of names have nothing to with the reality of biology of DNA or the total equality between both groom and bride of the Vedic Mantra and vows made in the Hindu wedding.

In the west girls tend to take care of their parents and sons tend to be more useless.

In many parts of India the first son is often entrusted with special duties including the duties to do the final rites. By declaring that the girl belongs to another gotra the expectation issues of who does what as duties are resolved.

If the ego based issues arise with any convention intended to create harmony, they need to be addressed between the parties involved.

A well intentioned tradition if it is not abused by any party allows one to focus more on the DUTIES rather than RIGHTS in our tradition. Gotra concept or the last name concept is a local tradition that does not violate any Samanya Dharma unless it is viewed as an issue arising out of ego for either parties. If so then the ego issues have to be addressed and not the tradition itself.



Regarding the other example of not entering a prayer room by a girl on certain days of the month I have this comment. A generation ago men wore kaupeenam under the veshti and women wore nothing under the Sari wore in any style.


Today there are protection of all kind on the special days for women and even Patti wear underwear. Therefore the tradition of 'do not enter the prayer room on those days' have no applicability.

I do agree that many have created all kinds of concept of 'Theettu' etc which is demeaning. These have nothing to do with the logic behind a practice.

The basis for a rule has more to do with the value of maintaining cleanliness (like washing our feet before entering a house).

While we do not have Pope like persons across Hindusim the general advice given (even at the end of learning Vedas) is to see a learned person for right interpretation.

The OP itself is an attempt to seek right interpretation in today's special situations.
 
........ 1. So for me both the western changing the wifes last name and the Indian Gotra system is not fair to women in my opinion.

2. I still remember was a a young teen my parents imposed a rule that during certain times of the month a female cant enter the prayer room..to which I asked them (and I got lots of scolding for that!LOL )..I asked them "you mean to say God is only in the prayer room?"
.........
Dear Renu,

I beg to differ! The addition in the female name after her marriage is to say that she is the partner of 'that' person.

That is in now way going to affect her freedom! What is wrong in adding the husband's name after the maiden name,

when her father's name is usually added to her maiden name, before she gets married?

2. God is everywhere. So can we perform a pooja in the toilet? Each job is to be performed in a certain place in the house

and that is how we live. For example, what is to be done in a closed room by a couple can't be done in the sitting room when

the guests are present!! :nono:

There is something known as 'idam, poruL, Eval' which is to be followed. :cool:
 
Why should married women change their names? Let men change theirs, or both retain their own name.

Changing the last name comes from the time when wife was Chattel, and husbands property. This system of having last name causes very funny situations in USA (for TB community).
In TB community at least Smarthas there is no last name, people use Iyyers, or their Gothra these are all for convenience.

Social customs come and go, we try to accommodate with the situation.

Before 1917, members of the British Royal Family had no surname, but only the name of the house or dynasty to which they belonged. ..
In 1917, there was a radical change, when George V specifically adopted Windsor, not only as the name of the 'House' or dynasty, but also as the surname of his family. The family name was changed as a result of anti-German feeling during the First World War, and the name Windsor was adopted after the Castle of the same name.

The queen did not take Prince Philip's last name. Similarly some other successful women do not change their last name. If the women is more famous with her maiden name she retains it or hyphens it with husbands last name.
 
about change of gotra of wife

first of all we shouldknow what is gotra,

gotra means a man (rishi in case of brahmins) from which our branch starts. A tradition or a way of life which he starts we try to follow them. Also if we think by scientific way our dna carries the same charteristic or structure to the future generation.
In your case if you marry, your wife's gotra will not change. Only your son / daughter gotra will be yours. Not of your wife. Why it is so? For that also there is a reason but this is out of the topic.



hi iam sridhar from chennai. Recently married. We got married in a temple and not in the traditional way.

I now want to know how to change the gothram of my wife to my gothram.

Is there some thing of this sort or by literally marring her, changes her gothram to mine ?

Can you please help me in this matter with your proper advice and guidance ?

Regards,

sridhar.
Email: [email protected]
 
Dear Renu,

I beg to differ! The addition in the female name after her marriage is to say that she is the partner of 'that' person.

That is in now way going to affect her freedom! What is wrong in adding the husband's name after the maiden name,

when her father's name is usually added to her maiden name, before she gets married?

2. God is everywhere. So can we perform a pooja in the toilet? Each job is to be performed in a certain place in the house

and that is how we live. For example, what is to be done in a closed room by a couple can't be done in the sitting room when

the guests are present!! :nono:

There is something known as 'idam, poruL, Eval' which is to be followed. :cool:


Dear RR ji,


Father's name is valid cos he is the father.

He gave her life..so why should that honour go to another man by erasing her fathers name and replacing with husbands name?

Its not a matter of ego but a matter of respect and honoring lineage.

Husband and father play different roles in life..father gives life and husband is a partner.

A husband's name does not undergo any change to denote partnership with a wife so why should a wife change her name?

In the Hindu Trinity of Brahma,Vishnu and Shiva..all Shaktis retain their maiden name..no one is a Saraswati Brahma,Laxmi Vishnu or Pravati Shiva or a Mrs Brahma,Mrs Vishnu or Mrs Shiva.

I am not being a feminist but just stating my opinion that a husband and wife can be partners in love and life without anyone losing their identity. The concept of partnership is different from the concept of ownership.

Ok coming to your next question can Pooja be done in the toilet..let me share with you what happened today..I bought a new bathroom cleaning liquid and it was working really well and removing all stains..I was cleaning the bathroom and toilet at home today and I was so happy that the new cleaning liquid was cleaning so well and I was singing a few bhajans as I was cleaning it..so it was like a Pooja cleaning my bathroom and the Bhajans cleaning my mind....for me I dont see any place as dirty or clean when it comes to prayer cos its a clean mind that is all that is needed.

Coming to your last question...about couples doing stuff in closed rooms..actually not everyone limits themselves to closed rooms...that's so old school!LOL

Now about the guests.. it all depends if the guests were invited over to indulge in voyeurism!LOL
 
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Changing names is again a west import. Women retained their maiden names, sita or satyabama, sembimadevi or kantimati (ramanujacharya's mother). I have not come across a single instance of husband's name getting attached.
Sitaraman is Rama and not sita.
 
Changing names is again a west import. Women retained their maiden names, sita or satyabama, sembimadevi or kantimati (ramanujacharya's mother). I have not come across a single instance of husband's name getting attached.
Sitaraman is Rama and not sita.
:clap2: Good point for woman's lib! :decision:
 
Dear Renu,

The girls who have got their passports before their wedding keep their father's name attached to their maiden name.
It saves lot of problems while processing the visa to go abroad, after their wedding. :peace:
 
..no one is a Saraswati Brahma,Laxmi Vishnu or Pravati Shiva or a Mrs Brahma,Mrs Vishnu or Mrs Shiva. ...........
A smart boy answered in a quiz program like this:

Q: What is the name of sage Agasthiar's wife?

A: Mrs. Agasthiyar! :D
 
We have Mrs. Sita Raman here in USA who is Sita married to Suresh Raman, and Raman happens to be Suresh's father.
 
Email, Facebook, twitter and countless social media accounts too in pre marriage name, with the added bonus of no change post divorce!
Dear Renu,

The girls who have got their passports before their wedding keep their father's name attached to their maiden name.
It saves lot of problems while processing the visa to go abroad, after their wedding. :peace:
 
Ideas can be good, but the reality is getting your work done. If you need an US visa for the spouse, better have a marriage certificate, birth certificate etc. You can not say that "my grandmother never had a birth certificate" so I too do not have one. You can walk to your own drums when you do not need someone's permission, else you walk to the permission grantor's demands.

It is great conversation piece over drinks, but be prepared with what ever your job demands.
 
Out here we have National Registration Identity Card(NRIC) with our data and fingerprints in a microchip for each citizen..its an offence not to carry it with you at all times.

The name on the NRIC has to match our name on birth certificate ..so married or not each person here maintains their given name at birth...everything has to match NRIC..passport,bank accounts,professional practicing certs and even death certificate.

So good for us females..no name change is required by law.
 
Husbands name need not be added ..It looks like an appendage and curtails womans independence..As pointed by Sarang it is a western concept..I would say even adding fathers initials is a British concept..Let a person be what he or she is! Why tag it to someone else!
 
In the past both men and women were given importance when it came to their children

In fact the Sanskrit Affix Taddhita also covers relationships about son of/daughter of both father and mother separately.

For example Arjuna is known both as Pandava(becos he is son of Pandu) and also Kaunteya(being the son of Kunti). In Bhagavad Geeta he was addressed more as Kaunteya.


After all even Sathyakama son of Jabala was accepted.

So I guess there was no hard and fast rule.
 
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Just a question..if Gotra is so important and only different Gotras can get married..what about a case of Polyandry where a woman has different husbands with different gotras? Can half brothers and half sisters that have different fathers but the same mother marry? They have different Gotras isnt it?

I am sure the marriage wont be allowed cos the mother is the same..so that shows that father's Gotra alone is not the determining criteria in marriage.
 
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