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Bribes and Corruptions

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When I was discussing about the bribes and corruptions with a class III and Class IV employees of the state government, they said "friend you (the person with money) buy lands, flats and admit your sons and daughters in convents and educate them in leading engineering collages. The persons with the officer ranks gets this done very quickly and comfortably by sitting in the office. But whereas we the Class are educating our children in government schools where the teachers often take leave and if they put leave no one to take the class. Can you tell me how many students who passed in Government school passed in IAS, IIMs, IITs etc.,

The salary we get is not sufficient for the rent we give. The price of the food, cloth vegetables are increasing every hour and we also need to take at least half meal.

See we are getting Rs12000 per month. we in our family has 6 persons myself, wife and two children and our parents. we are paying rent of Rs5000 and we paid Rs 25,000 as advance to the house owner as interest free deposit. then comes EB, Electrical maintenance, power charges which will be around Rs1000 per month.For our food we spend Rs 6000. For medical Rs 2000 minimum. Then comes our transport and auto expanses. we too get guests for whom we are to invite. Then comes accepting marriage invitations and other functions for which we are to pay Rs 500 to 1000.. If there a function in our family we are to spend. If there is a death we are to pay a minimum of Rs 15000 to the funeral expanses. Where is our savings?

If we want to educate our children we are buy an application form at the rate of Rs1000/=, which is not worth for a rupee. Then comes the fees. then capitation fees, then books and note books. They, the school sells 10 times higher than the market price, then comes the uniforms, cloths, etc., etc., and if we want transfer we are to grease the officer's palms. If we want a flat the officers themselves present every available flat to each one them and make us stay in a hut.

First advice us how to overcome these problems and then teach us to be a perfect Government no no no a perfect Public servant.

Is there any answers and advices for this questions?
Dear Mr Ramacchandran

I entirely agree with what you state that for a Government servant it is a hand to mouth existence to exist with a large family
in these hard days when inflation is at its peak. However, there have been some students who came out of Government
schools and stood toppers at the IAS and IPS examinations. One who can generate money in business or stock markets
survives comfortably notwithstanding the price spiral and other discomforts. Honest and perfect Government employees
cannot. I do not think that the situation would improve for the better if the prices of essential commodities are not brought down if prices of petrol and diesel are not raised by the oil companies once in two months, and if education
is not provided free to the children of Government employees upto college level.

The government already legalized this bribe as Tatkal scheme. The government asks for extra amount to issue pass port and Railway tickets. If our politicians try to serve the public with out accepting bribe the price may come down. This is should be implemented by all and the officers, police administration should join hands. This should be discussed in length.
I think a Mass movement like the one started by Shri AnnaHazaare will be able to create a greater awareness amonst the people that giving and getting Bribe is a sin and punishable.Also court cases shoul result in sevsre punishment to corrupt persons however high he/she be.Then onle next level people will have fear.
The selling of application forms at abnormal rates by employers and educational institutions should be withdrawn immediately. If a person pay Rs500 to 1000 per application form for a seat they didn't get, or an employment they didn't success is a waste of money. This alone will save us. For an MBA entrance test at the time of applying for a test a candidate is forced to register for the college too even if he fails the amount is not returned. That is the exam fees is Rs2500, along with that he should fee a collage admission form at Rs2500. The collage admission is possible only if he pass the exam. But the educational institutions are robbing in the name of education.
When we say bribe is punishable why not these educational institutions?
Will any education institution justify the fees they collect for issuing application forms? How they arrive that figure and what are all the expanse?
The form can be downloaded or we can apply on line, the institutions are going to check the eligibility of the applicant and if possible they are going to give him a seat. Why can't they return the money that they collect for rejected applications?
In the front page of Times of India this day states that the cost of application form in Medical universities are Rs 30,000. If the application form itself sold at Rs30,000 what will be expanses like fees etc?

The doctors who invest this amount will charge Rs 500 as fees.

The government should consider opening a diploma course in Medicine like DM&S., GCIM, BIM etc. at an affordable rate as otherwise there will be lots of people who will take their own treatment by approaching the medical shops. which will encourage selling of under quality substandard and expired date on drugs.
I have read that at least 65% of Indians either GIVE or TAKE bribes on a daily basis.. It starts from the Chief Minister, other ministers, secretaries, judges, police all the way down to the lowest rank employees...

I don't know how a new Lokpal Bill will be implemented even if it is passed eventually, when vast majority citizens are involved in the practice of giving or taking bribes; as it is, there are many laws already on the books against bribery and corruption, but NONE get enforced or implemented.

Perhaps, because of the disparity between the wages and prices - as this Class III/IV employee of state government clearly elucidated..

Then, where do you start? What's the real solution to this menace?

i think we start with minimum wage. a living wage. a decent wage,which makes one to afford a minimum standard of life.

the other day, the toronto city hall, inspite of a right wing budget cutting mayor, voted to give our policemen fat increases and hefty overtime wage rates for accompanying funerals etc. everyone knows that o/t is the money that helps afford the 'extras' here.

.. and just compare that with the pittance our ஏட்டு gets. i am not at all surprised, that he has to resort to bribes, to feed his family, pay for medical bills, and send his childern to half decent schools.

similarly, it goes on for other professions too....
The movies are behind this. In a movie they show the Hero lives in posh Bungalow and through money and some times villains live in palaces and throw money to attack Hero! Here the villian justifies that many makes many things and here he kills(!) hundred people throw money at an advocate and Police and gets out of it smoothly. A common who thinks that and act though he is a villain and Hero etc., wish to earn money. There are one hundred story teller to think on a subject discuss the story and become Brahma to write the fate of the Hero and villain. The hero fights with 100 persons in a single hand, a bullet just escapes (Hundred bullets showered on him!). When the thailai Ezuththu of a imaginary person changed with in hours, I am sure if intellectuals think about these problems they can find a way out.
We can rectify this corruption, if we get our education at free of cost or pay for education the percentage of your earnings. ie if you earn 100000 you can give 3000 per year to the institute, that amount get tax waiver, 5000 as educational obligation that will go to the next batch of students, 10000 for health programme. No scholarship from government, No Caste reservation, No application fee for admission in collages and schools, no fee for applying for a job, No fee for education.For Medical studies, the students should sign an agreement that they will work for five years in remote villages. Once Education and employments made free there is no need for employees to accept bribe in the name of educating their wards. Who will undertake this challenge?
The discussion seems to be digressing as it happens in other threads.
Corruption is fraud. There is a theory a called 'Fraud Triangle" which says that greed, opportunity and rationalisation are the three sides of fraud triangle that provides an enabling environment for frauds (also corruption). Whenever greed and opportunity are present, the person committing fraud rationalises the commission of fraud due to poverty, corrupt behaviour of colleagues etc. The salaries of government servants have been increased manifold by the sixth pay commission. Ironically whenever salaries of public servants are increased , one of the justifications for the increase is that it will reduce corruption. But the exactly opposite happens and corruption will continue to flourish.
The govt increase salaries. When this is in paper the petrol price increases three fold. Immdeiatly the prperty taxes on house increases, water charges etc., increases, that results in rent hike, school fees hike, and increase in Vegtable and commodities prices. If there is an increase in the salary at Rs 100 the salaried person should spend Rs1000 extra for the increase of Rs100.
The govt increase salaries. When this is in paper the petrol price increases three fold. Immdeiatly the prperty taxes on house increases, water charges etc., increases, that results in rent hike, school fees hike, and increase in Vegtable and commodities prices. If there is an increase in the salary at Rs 100 the salaried person should spend Rs1000 extra for the increase of Rs100.

This means that it is a vicious cycle. Salary increase leads to price increase to salary increase to price increase and so on. Therefore, the justification for seeking bribes remains no matter how big the salary increase is. Fantastic. Mera Bharat mahan.
If our politicians wish this problem can be solved immediately.Take for example the Money kept in forign banks is brought,that amount can be used for lot of welfare activities.
Absolutely support the suggestion of making education free for the deserving. But economic wants/needs justifying corruption is a false argument.

School teachers are often poor. Should they collect bribes to decide what marks to allott? I myself am richer than some people and poorer than other people. Should I take to crime so that I can build a house like Ambani's? Should I steal so that I can have a private jet like many CEOs?

We should accept our station in life. Or otherwise try to improve it by honest means.
If our politicians wish this problem can be solved immediately.Take for example the Money kept in forign banks is brought,that amount can be used for lot of welfare activities.
Sorry sir, I do not agree. No political party in India can sustain itself without indulging in corruption. For example, an out-of-power politician like Karunanidhi will be able to sustain DMK only with the funds amassed during his misrule. Further, look at the amount of money a person requires to spend for election. Can an honest and poor person contest election and get elected? Not at all, unless a political party spends money for that person. The political party chiefs are very clever; they do not indulge in corruption themselves, but nominate some trusted cronies to do the job. In such circumstances, no politician can be absolutely honest. An 'honest politician' is an oxymoron. Therefore, to expect any political party to abstain from corruption or to go after corruption is a utopian dream.
This of course is a difficult question to answer. Corruption is from block
development office level to the ministers, and it is shared by all these men.
We will not be able to eliminate all of them en masse.

Yet there are quite a few honest men. A telephone employee told me - sir,
we have enough. we are paid by the Govt. for doing the job . we do not want
any tips for doing our work.

On the other hand , ministers and MLAs demand money for transfer also and
a huge amount for promotion or good posts. The officer has to earn the money
in order to recover the amount paid !
Corruption starts from The Lowermost Level. Even in VAO's Office there is corruption.

We need not say anything about Police. No police will take leave during Aiyappa Swamy Season.

Even at Mid Nights we can see Police people are on the Roads for want of Bribe.

Stopping all the Lorries and Vehicles especially Other State Vehicle and Even Other District Vehicles too.

I paid a Bribe of Rs 2000/- in Chennai and the Police Official gave me receipt for just Rs 300/-.

I made a Complaint to Police Head Quarters last year and I don't Know anything about The Complaint.

In fact I send Complaint in E.Mail.

So The Belly Police in Tamil Nadu must be sacked and they are Purely Unfit even for Watch Men Work.
Dear V.Subbu,TSN Sir,
Now see the support for Anna Hazare on the Lokpal Bill,which they propose to include PM,Judges.If this comes to Reality we will have reduced corruption if not total elimination.As to your point on political parties needing funding I accept big parties use unccounted incomes for their spending.Hereagain see the communist parties.They are not aiming for big mony for fighting elections.This is a good trend other parties should be forced to follow by stringent laws and wating by people like Anna.
If the Cong led UPA started Eliminating Corruption at the Grass Root level right from the Beginning of this Parliament, there may not be issues like AH.

but what happened ?

Even a Chota party having just one or 2 MPs, starts Looting Money.

You just compare PMK of MGR's Period and The Present PMK.

I don't know if PMK party has Massive Funds or not,but Dr Ramdass and Anbumani has looted many crore of Income now.

If it is the case for a Small Regional Party we need not say anything about major parties in India.

Even now The PM has no Gutts to release the Names of Those looted money in Swiss Bank.
How do you rectify a corrupt practice by living in the corruption. Can you you be dry if you are submerged in water without a submarine?
Mending the Society which is fully Soaked in Corruption may take some time. But it is not Impossible to Eliminate Corruption.

Corruption was there even during Kingdom Period.The amount of Corruption may be less that is all.

The Flower Lotus is born from Ditch but it is going to Decorate the Godess...

Well said, but lotus flower is not "attached" to the silt but try to uproot it you will be in silt. So you can cut the flower alone. There is 10% of people even in India who are not corrupt and will always stay above corruption.
Every day we are watching Animal Planet where we see cow and other weak animals living in forests jungles grassing in land and drinking in pond and rivers and rest in shadows. When cow and deer and elephants eat, rest or drink water there are attacked by Lions, tigers crocodiles pythons and big fishes. Like this a common man live in this earth as a cow, deer and elephant and attacked by Corruptions, terrorists and kingdoms. Here kingdom can be referred for snakes and pythons as they swallow their pry slowly. But the corruption can be referred as crocodile and big fishes as they make their pry unconscious and eat, and the terrorists are the lions and tigers that gives a single stroke that kills.
Which is the best to kill a human life?
Well said, but lotus flower is not "attached" to the silt but try to uproot it you will be in silt. So you can cut the flower alone. There is 10% of people even in India who are not corrupt and will always stay above corruption.

Frankly, I could not understand what lotus flower (is it the BJP symbol?) is being referred to here!

From the very silt of this corrupt society had probably emanated many many great personalities, but in those days the social set up was such that one large group was without equality at the lowest end of the society while some enjoyed the fruits of others' hardwork. I think this sort of a social equilibrium gets transferred as modern day corruption when those who have discretion make it a point to ensure that they will levy a price - in the form of hard-earned money in other peoples' hands - for their discretion favouring someone.
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