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Brahminism in current day context

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gaddaddy

New member
Namaste!

With so much change in our lifestyles and globalization, how will we define Brahmins in the current day context?
What is the role of our scriptures? what about the religious duties that have been followed for centuries?
and so on..

I would like to know the opinion of the members.

Best wishes,
Raman
 

Brahmanyan

Well-known member
This subject has been discussed time and again under many threads. With the fast changing social structure, the position of Brahmins in society has also changed considerably. In the context of present day life, the religious and scriptural obligations enunciated for Brahmins in the Varnasrama have no relevance, and not practiced by most of us. The discussion on this subject will be of academic interest only.
There is nothing left to be called "Brahminism".

Regards,

Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.
 

sangom

Well-known member
Shri Brahmanyan has succinctly given the position.

In the current context what any brahmin can do ease not to have that superiority complex of "I am a brahmin and I am proud of it". Plus we may try to send out the clear message to all other Brahmins and non-brahmins that we are just as much human as all the rest of humanity is.

If we can give messages and live our life honestly on those very principles, that itself will be the best example of "brahminism", I will say.
 

jayam33

Member
Minimum rituals like Daily puja; following festivals with all the prescribed nivedanam like modakam; appam for vinayaka chaturthi; seedai for janmashtami; sundal for Navaratiri; Bakshanam & Marundhu for Diwali; pori urundai for karthikai etc. If not sandhyavandhanam at least Gayathri Japam; Amavasaya; Varasha pirapu;Uttarayana/Dakshiayana; Grahana tharpanams & Shrardham can keep the traditional Brahminical race alive for some years. With inter caste; inter religion; international marriages with Globalised views; day/night 24*7 work Culture; unless Divine intervenes our Race too will become Extinct.
 

prasad1

Well-known member
This subject has been discussed time and again under many threads. With the fast changing social structure, the position of Brahmins in society has also changed considerably. In the context of present day life, the religious and scriptural obligations enunciated for Brahmins in the Varnasrama have no relevance, and not practiced by most of us. The discussion on this subject will be of academic interest only.
There is nothing left to be called "Brahminism".

Regards,

Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.


I support this position. I do not understand the definition of Brahminism. If there was any special power bestowed just for being born a brahmin, I did not get it. You have to be comfortable in your life style, and try to do as little damage to your environment as possible.
I was born as Indian I did what I thought was right, I was proud to be Indian.
I am now a citizen of USA, and a proud PIO.
I enjoyed the privilege of being Indian, not to look down on any other person, similarly I am not looking down on any other person now.
We all have every right to be proud of our history, upbringing, culture, and religion.
We have absolutely no right to look down or make others uncomfortable due to our behavior.

You have to decide what is right for you. You can do the research, and decide what is going to your philosophy, what action you need to do to achieve your goal.
 
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kunjuppu

Well-known member
Minimum rituals like Daily puja; following festivals with all the prescribed nivedanam like modakam; appam for vinayaka chaturthi; seedai for janmashtami; sundal for Navaratiri; Bakshanam & Marundhu for Diwali; pori urundai for karthikai etc. If not sandhyavandhanam at least Gayathri Japam; Amavasaya; Varasha pirapu;Uttarayana/Dakshiayana; Grahana tharpanams & Shrardham can keep the traditional Brahminical race alive for some years. With inter caste; inter religion; international marriages with Globalised views; day/night 24*7 work Culture; unless Divine intervenes our Race too will become Extinct.


we belong all to the human race. there is no need for divine intervention as human intervention through technology, lifestyles, changing attitudes (for the better) urbanization and above all instant mobility, has made us tambrams shed the worst of our practices like exclusivity within agraharams and our prayers, abuse and disfigurement of widows, semi deification of sons to the detrimental treatment of our daughters and such.

it is good that many of these habits are swung to the dungheap of history, some with relish, some with indifference, some with deliberation and the rest out of lack of interest in continuation. till the last garbage of discrimination and abuse of fellow humans right upto the dalits, have been shed from our psyche.

so i think, in many ways, while we can and will maintain, our work ethic, honesty, sincerety, curiosity, love of adventure enough to seek our fortunes in the vast corners of the world and finally with the coming generations open their minds to an inclusive hinduism.

following festivals, appam for vinayaka chathurthi, seedai for seedai for janmashtami; sundal for Navaratiri; Bakshanam & Marundhu for Diwali; pori urundai for karthikai etc - to term all these as brahmincentric, only exposes our narrow mindedness and the sooner we quit ourselves from thinking ourselves as exclusive and separate, from the mass of hindus, the better it is for our soul.

so, let us vote for selective extinctiveness of all that is abhorrent in us, and cast these aside, while working towards being a part of humanity - equal in our attitude thought and word. something which i find jayam33's post awfully lacking.

thank you.
 

prasad1

Well-known member
You have every right to be proud of your heritage. You have to stand up to be counted. If you have to live your life hiding in shadows, it is not a life living.
"Sar katah sakte hai lakin sar jukha sakte nahin"
Every body else will try to put you down so they look tall. So please live by your values.

If a Rajasthani wants to be proud of his Rajput heritage, there is no harm.
A sikh wants to be proud of his religion, that is also ok.
An American, Englishman, or a German can be proud of their heritage.
But when a Tamil, wants to be proud of Tamil, is it ok? In this forum I sometimes wonder.
When a brahmin wants to be proud of being born in brahmin community, the entire community seems to shiver and run for cover.
A German is not ashamed of being a German, eventhough Germans (Nazis) killed million of humans. They are not proud of Nazism but they are still very proud of being Germans.
The stigma of being a brahmin and Tamil is really foreign to me. Nor will I be ashamed of being born as an Indian.
 

kunjuppu

Well-known member
A German is not ashamed of being a German, eventhough Germans (Nazis) killed million of humans. They are not proud of Nazism but they are still very proud of being Germans.
The stigma of being a brahmin and Tamil is really foreign to me. Nor will I be ashamed of being born as an Indian.

not true...even two generations later, the germans have a deep sense of guilt over nazism. nazism they claim was an aberration, out of a culture that produced beethoven and max planck; nazism had a life of less than 25 years on germany, and in those 25 years damaged them worth a millenium.

manu and his laws, and his followers had milleniums to solidify their views, to such an extent, that folks even brought up in the usa, have had this feeling of a separate hinduism of their own so inculcated, that it is depressing.

one cannot compare the pride of sikhs or rajput with the treatment meted out to the dalits. why is it that we say, that we have nothing to do with the miserable plight of the dalits. why do we say that it is the fault of the dalits for their own misery?

why is it that we do not have one ounce of empathy? why is it that we have to suffer cancer to know its pain?
 

prasad1

Well-known member
Being born as Brahmin, is just being born in Bihar. It is being born to parents living in bihar of Brahmin. I did not get any special privilege. I did not ask for any privilege either.

I lived in Germany and they are very proud of their heritage. They are never ashamed of being German. They are very patriotic, and extremism committed to German causes.
 

suraju06

Well-known member
Sangom in post #3:

In the current context what any brahmin can do ease not to have that superiority complex of "I am a brahmin and I am proud of it". Plus we may try to send out the clear message to all other Brahmins and non-brahmins that we are just as much human as all the rest of humanity is.

If we can give messages and live our life honestly on those very principles, that itself will be the best example of "brahminism", I will say.

Yes very true......but only untill some one reminds you that you are a brahmin and that you are upholding the brahminism.
 

suraju06

Well-known member
Kunjuppu in his post #8:

not true...even two generations later, the germans have a deep sense of guilt over nazism. nazism they claim was an aberration, out of a culture that produced beethoven and max planck; nazism had a life of less than 25 years on germany, and in those 25 years damaged them worth a millenium.

(1)Yes Nazism lived for 20 years as a demon but in that short period claimed more than a million lives.
(2)While Germans have been able to get over the nightmare and be proud of their identity and heritage brahmins have been put down for a far longer period and there appears to be no let up.
(3)Germans had the maturity to understand and accept that it was the German society as a whole which blundered and not just a handful of Nazi party members in Germany. In India it is only brahmins who have to be repeatedly hanged for a thousand times and all others(includes thevars, pillais, mudaliyars, reddys and every one other than the panchamans) have to be rewarded with reservations and other freebies for whatever they did.

manu and his laws, and his followers had milleniums to solidify their views, to such an extent, that folks even brought up in the usa, have had this feeling of a separate hinduism of their own so inculcated, that it is depressing.

People in USA, if they meet once in a while as TBs and engage in harmless religious activities that becomes a talking point for people here. What is expected of them? Instead of following their religion and connected rituals, go to the church on week ends and ask the children to go and attend Sunday Bible classes? Being proud of one's heritage and culture and religion is something different from inculcating in the minds of children hatred against other religions with jihad fervour. Why don't our diaspora's charging white knights do not understand this (or are they sold)?

one cannot compare the pride of sikhs or rajput with the treatment meted out to the dalits. why is it that we say, that we have nothing to do with the miserable plight of the dalits. why do we say that it is the fault of the dalits for their own misery?

Why not? We can certainly compare the pride of rajputs with that of brahmins. Dalits suffering is an altogether different issue. Brahmins never say we have nothing to do with dalit suffering. We only deny that we are solely and exclusively responsible for that suffering. And we want the hindu society to do amends - not brahmins alone. And we are certainly against tormentors passing off as victims, enjoying the same benefits as the victims.

why is it that we do not have one ounce of empathy? why is it that we have to suffer cancer to know its pain?

Empathy is in plenty. We only hate hypocrisy.

Cheers.
 

sangom

Well-known member
I sincerely feel that "brahminness" cannot be really compared to "germanness", "britishness", "russianness" etc. It is caste consciousness in one case whereas the others are national identities. What Indians sorely lack, imho, is the feeling of Indianness and more than necessary dose of divisive tendencies like "Rajasthani", "Rajput", "Tamil", "Tamil brahmin", "Bihari", "Punjabi", etc.

Historically this Indian sub-continent was never one nation. Even in the vedas and the Brahmana texts, we find specific references to the different areas probably occupied by different tribes - like kuru, panchala, balhika, gandhara, etc. Even the term aryaavarta denoted only some limited area like where the black buck was abundant, and so on. It is only thanks to the British colonization that there was one entity called 'British India' which itself had to be split into Pakistan, India and Burma. Hence we can ill afford to have our heads held high on parochial sentiments like "Rajasthani", "Rajput", "Tamil", "Tamil brahmin", "Bihari", "Punjabi", etc., nor on the basis of narrower labels like "tamil brahmin", "bengali kayastha" and so on. The sooner we bid goodbye to these and adopt "Indianness" — as the germans, the british, the russians, etc., pride themselves as being "german", "british", "russian" etc., the better for this nation, and for our following generations.
 

ozone

Active member
following festivals, appam for vinayaka chathurthi, seedai for seedai for janmashtami; sundal for Navaratiri; Bakshanam & Marundhu for Diwali; pori urundai for karthikai etc - to term all these as brahmincentric, only exposes our narrow mindedness and the sooner we quit ourselves from thinking ourselves as exclusive and separate, from the mass of hindus, the better it is for our soul.
If you have an qualms, please direct them at the original post.
There was no need to pull this 'newbie' who was only responding to the OP of "how will we define Brahmins in the current day context?",
and taking off on your usual journey of narrow mindedness, as if you have the most broadest mind in the universe. You must be watching yourself upside down :)
 

jayam33

Member
It was not a question of being exclusive; being born into this "tambram" clan; just holding on to this known tag we try anxiously; to stick to the bare minimum customs; in these difficult days:
1) Trying to make Sambar that is not sour/salty
2) Rasam with an aroma.
3) Modakam that does not crack after steaming
4)vella seedai/ Appam not turning hard/fizzle out.
5)Not facing a BLAST like situation with uppu seedai.
:cool:
 

valli

New member
It was not a question of being exclusive; being born into this "tambram" clan; just holding on to this known tag we try anxiously; to stick to the bare minimum customs; in these difficult days:
1) Trying to make Sambar that is not sour/salty
2) Rasam with an aroma.
3) Modakam that does not crack after steaming
4)vella seedai/ Appam not turning hard/fizzle out.
5)Not facing a BLAST like situation with uppu seedai.
:cool:

So, making good sambar, rasam, modakam, vellai seedai, appam and uppu seedai are the bare minimum customs to claim to being in the 'tambram' clan!!? :rofl:

If it is so, many tambrams of today would need to be excommunicated! Oh, wait - did you mention 'Not facing a BLAST like situation with uppu seedai'? Oh, ho ho.. even the previous generation needs to be excommunicated!:dance:

Cheers!
 

valli

New member
Oh, Now I have a serious question jayam33

Did you refer your post towards tamil brahmin boys or girls or both?

I am sure that it was not refered to brahmins boys since they will automatically (most probably) fail! So, did you refer tamil brahmin females in regards to the cooking skills?

So, does brahminism depends on its future on one and only on girls? Oh, Good!

Does that mean that brahminism is not dependant on boys?
 

sangom

Well-known member
Smt. Jayam,

All the 5 items referred to above are not some things

exclusive for tabras. In most vegetarian hotels serving food

which is highly rated by all (Bs and NBs) here in

Trivandrum, the cooking is done by Tamil Nadu NBs -

males (because they are cheap and do not form labour

unions). There is a 'bhakshanam' stall of some long

standing and many which are about 10 years. In all these,

the items are prepared by NBs only becasue Bs capable of

and ready to toil in front of fire for 8 to 10 hours, are just

not there.

As for "kai murukku" there are probably not more than 5

or 6 women in the whole of this city today who can make it

with those sharp, file-like flanges and the uniform hollow

in the centre. Only one place is there for reasonably good

quality "ceer muRukku" in TVM, and booking has to be

done months in advance. But in Nagercoil there are many

places where the muRukku is made by nadar and other

caste women, and these are good quality. B women

knowing 'muRukku cutthutal' are few even in Nagercoil, it

seems; still when marriages are fixed at short notice,

people (have to) go to NGL for 'ceer muRukku' and close

their eyes to the NB contribution to it.

All this proves, imho, that it is 'nityatthozhil abhyaasam' as

the saying goes. Give sufficient training to any person and

he/she will be able to perform any job, from 'oupaasanam'

to 'somayaagam' like any of the expert vadhyars. In fact

myself and wife were astounded by the speed and quality of

"modakams" made by my Oriya NB friend's wife. and she

was handling the coconut-jaggery pooraNam (which we

normally use) for the first time in her life!
uppu ceeDai blast happens even for the most experienced

tabra stalwart mamis; that is why they generally refrain

from making it nowadays. I am told it happens because we

now use very fine flour (not the one made with 'tirukai')

and there is no escape route for air.
 

prasad1

Well-known member
Kunjuppu in his post #8:



(1)Yes Nazism lived for 20 years as a demon but in that short period claimed more than a million lives.
(2)While Germans have been able to get over the nightmare and be proud of their identity and heritage brahmins have been put down for a far longer period and there appears to be no let up.
(3)Germans had the maturity to understand and accept that it was the German society as a whole which blundered and not just a handful of Nazi party members in Germany. In India it is only brahmins who have to be repeatedly hanged for a thousand times and all others(includes thevars, pillais, mudaliyars, reddys and every one other than the panchamans) have to be rewarded with reservations and other freebies for whatever they did.



People in USA, if they meet once in a while as TBs and engage in harmless religious activities that becomes a talking point for people here. What is expected of them? Instead of following their religion and connected rituals, go to the church on week ends and ask the children to go and attend Sunday Bible classes? Being proud of one's heritage and culture and religion is something different from inculcating in the minds of children hatred against other religions with jihad fervour. Why don't our diaspora's charging white knights do not understand this (or are they sold)?



Why not? We can certainly compare the pride of rajputs with that of brahmins. Dalits suffering is an altogether different issue. Brahmins never say we have nothing to do with dalit suffering. We only deny that we are solely and exclusively responsible for that suffering. And we want the hindu society to do amends - not brahmins alone. And we are certainly against tormentors passing off as victims, enjoying the same benefits as the victims.



Empathy is in plenty. We only hate hypocrisy.

Cheers.

Sir Raju,
You are so right.
Some people here suffer from condition known as Stockholm Syndrome.
Stockholm syndrome - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It is not this Brahmin who caused the condition of Dalits. When this Brahmin goes away the conditions of the dalits is not going to change dramatically. After Manu smrithy was written, various other leaders from different Castes, religion, countries ruled in different part of India for different time periods. A dalit wrote the Indian constitution. No Brahmin in in the position of power in India or Tamil Nadu. Business leaders, social leaders, MNC are not brahmin owned. Hello members wake up and smell the world, brahmins are not in position of power.

But the condition of Dalits and poor has not dramatically changed. If a Brahmin is poor, and lonely, or suffers from mental or physical defects, he too is subjected to cruelty. Brahmins are not the oppressors.
The way some of these people claim, i feel all oppressors should be labelled as Brahmins. This guilt consciousness seems only among some Tamil Brahmins.

I have cure for the pain caused by self flogging, stop flogging the pain will go away.:smash:
 
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kunjuppu

Well-known member
sangom,

afaik, in grand sweets adayar, all condiments, including kai murukkus, are made by NB. the founder himself was a NB.

we find their products top notch, even better than krishna sweets, and even in krishna sweets, run by tambrams, i would imagine the bulk of the cooking is done by NBs.
 

kunjuppu

Well-known member
prasad,

the moral influence of caste based discrimination still exists. what went on for milleniums, cannot just be blown away in 50 years.

also, dont you realize that we are now receiving the wrong end of the stick, by being discriminated by the middle castes in tamil nadu? surely it does not feel good right?

suraju, thank you for your post. i was addressing specific concerns raised by prasad. overall, you and i, disagree on this. let us move on. i presume none of my points is in agreement with you, and you have to destroy me 100% to feel satisfaction. thank you for the same. otherwise, let me know, where you agree, and our point of parting.

i am in sync with sangom's post #12. we either say we are all tamils, when comparing ourselves with the rajputs or germans for these are groups of people. otherwise we should say tamil brahmins vs mudaliars or jats..ie not compare apples to oranges.

i think it is a revealing exercise, to see how the others view us. here is a link to top tamil blogs..a couple of them are related to DK, but ignoring it, the rest, reveal an insight to a tamil culture, that many of us do not know. also, it is interesting, how tambrams are viewed there, and we can judge ourselves the validity of their stands. all in all, i find it, a valuable window to NB tamil culture.

top tamil blogs

and the url below, links to tamil feminine blogs..awesomely refreshing in expounding the problems and issues of the poorer and dalit women of tamil nadu. one does not have to agree 100% but one can understand how far as a group they have to come up, to be on par with our own tambram women, who by and large, are libertated today. i feel.

penniyam/

my views on social issues, are more learnt through constant reading and exposure to views of today's tamil youth and not so young groups, both B and NB. i have found most of the B to be either pretty light reading, or virulently in support of status quo re varna, and wailing the loss of privileges. the light reading are usually top notch humour on current affairs. but i have not found any deep dwelving into social issues bar gnani, who again, though born tambram, has discarded both caste and religion.
 
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sangom

Well-known member
prasad,

the moral influence of caste based discrimination still exists. what went on for milleniums, cannot just be blown away in 50 years.

also, dont you realize that we are now receiving the wrong end of the stick, by being discriminated by the middle castes in tamil nadu? surely it does not feel good right?

suraju, thank you for your post. i was addressing specific concerns raised by prasad. overall, you and i, disagree on this. let us move on.

Shri Kunjuppu,

I think it has been a very fortunate development that almost all brahmins (and I am talking of tabras only here) have very little knowledge of the history of the so-called "sanatana dharma", though they praise it to the skies every now and then. Otherwise how is it possible to argue that brahmins had no role ever in creating and perpetuating caste-based inequalities and the discriminative and horrible practices arising form it.

Do you think it is advisable to have this issue discussed (may be yet another time) in this forum? Smt. HH and Shri nara may kindly give their views.
 

suraju06

Well-known member
Kunjuppu,

Your post #20 for reference:

suraju, thank you for your post. i was addressing specific concerns raised by prasad. overall, you and i, disagree on this. let us move on. i presume none of my points is in agreement with you, and you have to destroy me 100% to feel satisfaction. thank you for the same. otherwise, let me know, where you agree, and our point of parting.

Dear Kunjuppu,

You know well where we differ seriously. I have no kolaveri to destroy you. You are a friend and your posts are a beauty. Why should I destroy them? Moreover I am a TB(and am I not proud of that!!) and so destroying is not there in my blood/genes. I believe brahmins have been harassed already by every one here and they need some relief. I strongly believe that they are not the only culprits when it comes to casteism. If any thing, they were stupid enough to go with the other middle castes for too long. It is here that we differ. From your posts I get an impression that you are more interested in fixing the accountability on brahmins exclusively, that too now and here. I believe that it is time for the Tamil society to put the past behind and move ahead with removing casteism and discriminations in the society. And for this I strongly believe that brahmins have to be taken in as part of this moving society. As long as you expect that brahmins should be put to shame, that they should be made to apologise for the casteism, for all the atrocities committed in the name of castes etc., I wont be able to agree with you on that. It is here that we part. And EVR is another point on which we differ. You think he was a hero whereas I think he was a hypocrat.

i am in sync with sangom's post #12. we either say we are all tamils, when comparing ourselves with the rajputs or germans for these are groups of people. otherwise we should say tamil brahmins vs mudaliars or jats..ie not compare apples to oranges.

What are the terms Germans, English,Americans etc? I think they are tags which indicate a group of people on the basis of a certain characteristics-here it is the language and the country. There is nothing called Germanness or Englishness or Americanness in them. All human beings are the same. The color may very, physical features may vary and language spoken may vary. Similarly brahmins, Rajputs, Banias, Punjabis, Marwaris, Jats etc are tags which indicate groups of people with distinct cultural practices/value systems. This is what I said.

i think it is a revealing exercise, to see how the others view us. here is a link to top tamil blogs..a couple of them are related to DK, but ignoring it, the rest, reveal an insight to a tamil culture, that many of us do not know. also, it is interesting, how tambrams are viewed there, and we can judge ourselves the validity of their stands. all in all, i find it, a valuable window to NB tamil culture.

It would be more interesting and revealing if you meet a few well educated and socially aware dalits and ask them what their views are about the other castes in Tamilnadu. You can even try to find out ordinary dalits in villages(may not be socially very sensitised) and find out how they feel. I suggest that you visit the Vachathi tribals next time when you visit Tamilnadu. You will indeed have a chastising experience for your belief and understanding.

Despite our differences in perception I would like to know more about your views and their basis because I keep coming here only for that.

Cheers.
 
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kunjuppu

Well-known member
Shri Kunjuppu,

I think it has been a very fortunate development that almost all brahmins (and I am talking of tabras only here) have very little knowledge of the history of the so-called "sanatana dharma", though they praise it to the skies every now and then. Otherwise how is it possible to argue that brahmins had no role ever in creating and perpetuating caste-based inequalities and the discriminative and horrible practices arising form it.

Do you think it is advisable to have this issue discussed (may be yet another time) in this forum? Smt. HH and Shri nara may kindly give their views.

thank you sangom.

i doubt whether there will be any use. in order to atleast make a dent, in understanding the basic absurdity and cruelty behind the varnas, how it is all lopsided in favour of the priests and how it has degenerated to such an extent that still pockets of dalits are lacking in dignity, one needs to have an open mind.

one needs to have the interest, to set things right. accept, not all, but certain amount of faults.

i find we are polarized, with no via media. ideally, i would like the only variable factor, is in where we tambrams went wrong and how much of the current casteism is the doing of our ancestors.

but in an ancestral worshipping cult, where it is well nigh impossible even to endow our forefathers with even a speck of responsibility for the ills of varna, where manu is held in high regard even by women who today would be agahst if we had practised any of manu's instructions on them, and where there is an overall pervading sense of denial, i feel nothing will come out good.

we have talked in many many threads, and once again, what i find so shocking, is the blatant denial of the past. and along with it, unashamed weeping for the present, mostly due to perceived loss of jobs/seats due to reservations.

in this context, i think, it is good, overall for tamil hinduism, that we tambrams, are shrinking in numbers - through emigration abroad,and eventual mixing with mlecchas; small families which do not even replace themselves to the necessary 2.2 children and increasing ic marriages of our girls and as a result (!) a large number of our boys in their 30s without any chance of finding a tambram spouse, and their insistence on the same.

the remnants would be of priests, who would make a killing selling their services to the highest bidder (who might not be a brahmin and much to the chagrin of the tambrams); and certain folks who would rue those good ole times, when tambrams dominated the civil and social services of tamil nadu.

i think, the bulk would have melted away, into non practising brahmins, separated from other tamils only in their (maybe) food, as i find alcohol is now an accepted 'relaxer' for many tambram families..atleast the ones that i am familiar with..and these are all up and upcoming prospering class. money, it appears, is as quick a grease remover as ambition, to cast away unwanted traditions.

that is the prognosis, i see now, but who knows? history has a special knack of coming up with surprises.

but back to your point: i see no point in any new thread regarding inequalities due to varna based hinduism.

ps. one of the most interesting blogs was by a young tambram, a very intelligent and welll versed in my opinion. he was rueing the current state of brahmins in tamil society. his regret was not per se the concept of varna, but the foolishness of our tamil ancestors for dividing the society into B and NB. in the north, he observed, the brahmins were smart enough to include a few other high castes, so that together they could garner the numbers enough and loyalty enough to keep the rest of population down. in tamil nadu, we went alone on a 'all or nothing' principle and lost. such is life!!

one can only imagine, if the tambrams had aligned themselves tight on a caste basis with gounders and nadars, and maybe, maybe they would be part of the ruling elite of tamil nadu today. but then periyar came......and convinced 97% of tamil nadu that they need not believe or believe in brahmins anymore. and proved right.
 
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suraju06

Well-known member
but then periyar came......and convinced 97% of tamil nadu that they need not believe or believe in brahmins anymore. and proved right.

1. The percentage is all wrong. 97 % includes the whole of Congressmen and Communists. Lo!! what a misperception. Please read Indira Parthasarathy's Kuruthi punal a novel based on the Kilvenmony incidents.

2. EVR said don't believe brahmins but believe Mudaliyars(his justice party had only Mudaliyars in the beginning) and the gullible people believed him. And we have Kunjuppu making a hero of him!!
 

prasad1

Well-known member
Raju,
What are the terms Germans, English,Americans etc? I think they are tags which indicate a group of people on the basis of a certain characteristics-here it is the language and the country. There is nothing called Germanness or Englishness or Americanness in them. All human beings are the same. The color may very, physical features may vary and language spoken may vary. Similarly brahmins, Rajputs, Banias, Punjabis, Marwaris, Jats etc are tags which indicate groups of people with distinct cultural practices/value systems. This is what I said.

That is gem of a statement.
But some of the people here have enjoyed the undue privilege of being a Brahmin (what ever that may be), or know of someone who was abusing a dalit, and did nothing to stop it. They are transferring their personal guilt to the community at large.
Please take off your dark glass, there is enough light, you do not need the shade.
 
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