Brahmin Tamil

[nageshmahadevan]

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The element of Tamil Brahmins which distinctly identified them in any goup is the Brahmin Tamil, which was musical to the ears and melodious to hear. But nowadays we rarely find any Tamil Brahmin speaking the Brahmin Tamil? Where went the language? Why TBs are not speaking the language? Especially the younger generation don't speak Brahmin Tamil at all. Only those born during the 70s and earlier are using the Brahmin Tamil. Brahmin Tamil is becoming extinct. Should we not revive the language? Should we not teach our children to speak the Brahmin language at least with other Tamil Brahmins? After the Brahmin Tamil is the most refined of all Tamil dialects, very sweet to hear. Where have gone the usage of such words like "Aaham for house, Avaa aathule, Ivaa aathule, Naazhi ayiduthu, Jalam, Vandhela? Eduthundela? etc..".

 

[DURGADASAN]

This generation got addicted to english sir. The reason behind is you people of 70s. You wanna your children to talk in english. You yourself speaks that language only when your relatives came to home. Then blaming things over 80s. Slowly the sweet language is dying. Also, in outside many people makes coments and fun on our language. Thats also a reason for this sad situation. Anyhow as you mentioned we have the responsibility to revive that sweeter usage.

nanna irukka idhu???

Pranams

 

[kunjuppu]

durga,

i come from north malabar.

the tamil we speak at home, has so much of malayalam, that many a times, other TBs do not understand it.

i speak madras tamil mostly.

my wife speaks a tamil of sorts, even though her antecedents are same as mine. what i found interesting, is her tamil and intonations changes with whom she speaks.

even with brahmins, our language and expressions differ, according to whom we converse, i think. at home different from TB friends and different from those outside our community.

i know a little bit of malayalam. but i was told that the moplah speaks differently than the christians of erstwhile travancore.

we know that kongu tamil different from nadar tamil different from madurai tamil.

overall, i think, we are all evolving, picking up new words and homogenizing a tamil. mainly because, we interact more with other groups of tamils than ever before.

i interact with many more sri lankan tamils. i have to choose words carefully for them to understand. surprisingly, my malayalam words are better understood by them than my madras tamil ones

so all in all, let us treat change as the constant. we drop some words and adopt new ones. such is life.

it is ok to shed tears at a loss. or perceived loss. but i think it is futile to revive the dead. ne pas?

 

[DURGADASAN]

I dont think that has been totally died... It is there still am hearing in many houses. Sometimes, I too speak like that. When, at times, I forget myself and involved much into the discussion automatically that language comes in... So, nothing to worry. Like all sorts of different in a certian language, this also be.

Pranams.

Note: I love malayalam. I even started learning that. But stopped due to some inconvenience. For example, the usage of "oh", "adane" are very special to you people alone...

 

[amala]

Even I hardly hear Brahmin Tamil being spoken when I was last in Chennai last year. Especially from my generation. Oh well, I guess people and culture evolve.

Malayalam Tamil is delighful to hear. I have lots of Palakkad relatives and love hearing them speak.

 

[kunjuppu]

want to hear a funny story?

in my younger days, the summer holidays were spent in kerala.

on return to madras, i used to come with the accompanying 'sing song' intonations of my grandmother's household.

along with new words like வெள்ளம், இருக்கி, பறையு etc.

my dad would soon go on a correction mode, perhaps a little irritated.. and soon it would be back to தண்ணி ஒக்காரு சொல்லு and so on.

dad always believed in ' when in rome..'

also, for a few days, my கஞ்சி வெள்ளம் accent used to be noticed by my friends.. a few weeks before it fell wayside to the overwhelming madras tamil.

 

[G. Soundara Rajan]

Namassadhasae.

This is an interesing topic. I think, only because of the media, e.g. various TV channels, cinema etc. the so called Brahmin Tamil is atleast alive today, which is a pity. Tamil Brahmins should have an inclination to speak this Brahmin Tamil, when they talk among Tamil Brahmins, and in their homes. Then only the subsequent generations will follow this prctice. There is a fancy, it seems, to speak English in our homes, unnecessarily. Unless in families where there can be some special reason for this, all families should try to give their contributions in this direction.



"அவரவர் இச்சையில் எவை எவை உற்றவை அவை தருவித்தருள் பெருமாளே!"
_ திருவக்கரை திருப்புகழ்

 

[amala]

I learnt words like 'pakshay', 'poiko' and 'prandhu'. Sing song is so accurate a description for this accent.

want to hear a funny story?

in my younger days, the summer holidays were spent in kerala.

on return to madras, i used to come with the accompanying 'sing song' intonations of my grandmother's household.

along with new words like வெள்ளம், இருக்கி, பறையு etc.

my dad would soon go on a correction mode, perhaps a little irritated.. and soon it would be back to தண்ணி ஒக்காரு சொல்லு and so on.

dad always believed in ' when in rome..'

also, for a few days, my கஞ்சி வெள்ளம் accent used to be noticed by my friends.. a few weeks before it fell wayside to the overwhelming madras tamil.

 

[vijisesh]

I don't quite agree to sri.nagesh ji that Brahmin tamil is totally forgotten and unused !

As per my belief , Brahmins feel comfortable with their own language when they are amidst their own group - else as shri.durga ji mentioned , they fear that they may be mocked at , if they begin to use their language whilst in a company with members from other community .
I feel there's nothing wrong ! At work although we may prove our efficiency , we can seldom digest phrases referred to us like " Thayir saadam " .
We have evolved as Ms.Amala ji mentioned ...
As we are different from the previous generations in being muscular, and in competing equally in all professions , we need not be picked with use of language uncommon with the society which earns our livelihood !
if we still insist , it may lead to isolation or criticism and for most of us with restricted gandhi'an values , the conflict may be physical if they begin targetting our language all the time ... so its better to restrict our language and be a normal social being !
ofcourse , this can only be developed by being friendly with members of all communities !

 

[amala]

Does anyone else feel a bit annoyed at Iyer Bhaashai being ridiculed and mocked in Tamil films and at how Iyer girls are the first to fall for non Iyer heroes?.

 

[B V RAAGHAVAN]

nannaarukku neenga pesarathu!!! yaru sonna? brahmna bhazhai yengiyo poiduthunnu? Enga offisula 4 TB irukkom. Eppo parthundalum namma bhazhailathaan pesippom.
Enga athulaeum kandippa kozhanthaikal namma bhasaithan pesanumnnu vechirukken. kuzhantheL nanna pesara.Namma veettkku vara TBkkalitteum namma bhazhaithan pesara

 

[kunjuppu]

nannaarukku neenga pesarathu!!! yaru sonna? brahmna bhazhai yengiyo poiduthunnu? Enga offisula 4 TB irukkom. Eppo parthundalum namma bhazhailathaan pesippom.
Enga athulaeum kandippa kozhanthaikal namma bhasaithan pesanumnnu vechirukken. kuzhantheL nanna pesara.Namma veettkku vara TBkkalitteum namma bhazhaithan pesara

please can i ask you a favour?

kindly, if you don't mind, use the instant translator, so that we can easily understand what you mean.

http://www.google.com/transliterate/indic/Tamil

and feel free to express the same sentiments in english.

the forum does not encourage tamil only posts, in deference to our global presence, and possible inability of members to read tamil.

but your tamlish or engamil confounds both.

thank you.

 

[B V RAAGHAVAN]

Sorry Sir,
It is not to hurt anybody. If I write in English, the original brahminical tamil cannot be expressed. that is all. Please excuse me. I will continue to write in pure english only.

 

[kunjuppu]

Sorry Sir,
It is not to hurt anybody. If I write in English, the original brahminical tamil cannot be expressed. that is all. Please excuse me. I will continue to write in pure english only.

no probs. you can do the tamil literal indic translation thus

நன்னாருக்கு நீங்க பேசறது !! யாரு சொன்னா ? பிராமண பாஷை எங்கேயோ போயடிதுன்னு !! எங்க ஆபிசிலே நாலு டீபீ இருக்கோம். எப்போ பார்த்திண்டாலும் நம்ம பாஷை லே தான் பேசிப்போம்

which is para 1 of your message. it takes a little extra work.

you can win both ways. pure english for மண்டுஸ் like me. pure tamil for the scholars

 

[kunjuppu]

Does anyone else feel a bit annoyed at Iyer Bhaashai being ridiculed and mocked in Tamil films and at how Iyer girls are the first to fall for non Iyer heroes?.

amala,

not me.

if that is how the rest of the tamil community views us, so be it.

there is no smoke without fire. usually. i think it is the same issue here.

either, we accept or ignore it, like i do. or take it seriously.

if you take it seriously, then you have to go down to the root cause.

- is it just hatred of the other castes?
- is it a diabolical plot of other religions against us, as they view as the guardians of hinduism?
- are there some justifications in their supposed mockery?
- are these just jokes, and we cannot as a community handle humour?

and so on..and so on..

amla, i take the easy way out.

after seeing padosan, and mehmood's caricature of iyers, i cannot think anything can be worse than that.

frankly speaking, today's iyers in tamil films, and myself, i cannot see anything in common.

thank you.

 

[drsundaram]

I think we brahmins ourseleves are not serious and conscious that our kith and kin should talk in our style particularly in a social atmosphere. We prefer/ensure them not to talk brahminically. We shy if brahminical expressions are used in an social forum. Recetly in an open questions & answer sessions in Stary VIjay TV the comperer Gopinath in an assembly of participants and Actor Kamalahasan, I heared Kamalahasan, being a brahmin by himself, is referring in some context , Brahmins as Paarpaneya jaadhi. He knows to say the word "brahmins" but he did not. When a luminary himself is so so much prejudiced why talk about ordinary? No body would have objected to him had he said, Brahmana jaadhi. But he must have been happy to have called "Paarapaneya jaadhi". Any how that went unnoticed. It is we parents,society and media all contribute for the gradual waning of of our style of language according to me.

 

[Iyer@Infosys]

When non-brahmins speak to us knowing well we are brahmins, do they aspire to speak in brahmin dialect? When a so-called koundar or so-called nadar or so-called chettiar speaks to others whatsoever community the 2nd person belongs, don't they retain their own dialects? Why should the brahmin community alone bend? After all, Iyer Tamil is the most superior and chaste. In fact others must try to emulate brahmins. Is it the magnanimity of brahmins that they yield in or is it brahmins' weakness or is it fear of criticism? Why should brahmins care two hoots for criticism, mockey and ridicule? If others criticise or mock, it is their ignorance, their meanness, their feeble mindedness. Let the brahmins pump the brahmin dialect on others so that in due course others also speak the same.

 

[Brahmanyan]

All over the world have regional and sectional slang in their spoken languages. Brahmin Tamil is no exception. I am from Coimbatore. The spoken Tamil in our region is regarded as most respectable and extremely sweet to listen. The spoken Tamil in southern and eastern Tamil Nadu have its own specialty. The "Madras" Tamil is different from all other regions. Thus Brahmin Tamil is in no way inferior to spoken Tamil of other communities. There is nothing to be ashamed of , nor to mock at our mode of speaking. In fact people from other communities liberally use Brahmin Tamil when they inter act with Brahmins.
Let us continue to be what we are.
Regards,
Brahmanyan.

 

[PANCHANATHAM CHANDRASEKAR]

yes it is true that tamil brahmin dialect has been slowly disappearing in the discussion with our own community people. But it is still alive in the areas beyond Chennai. We have to keep our traditional dialect alive only when we interact with out own people.Gone are the days in all the offices , be it Govt.or Pvt. mostly our community people occupied various positions in every level and one can hear the tamil brahmin dialect in every offices. But NOW.................?

 

[vijisesh]

This discussion is Purely Relative

If you are in Sales / Marketing , then you will make your client comfortable ,learn all dialects , mannerisms , likes and dislikes of your client to strike your deal --

if you are in a govt office as shri panchanatham chandrashekhar ji mentioned , where there is a dearth of brahmins , you need to speak the common language to be one amongst your team !

If you are residing abroad in a place where you have people from different countries , there will be a few Indians / srliankans / malysians/singaporeans , to converse in our tamil language and that's when you will talk the common TAMIL language ( filmy style ), to get close to him , rather than fear losing him by speaking a language which needs translation !

But believe me , Blessed are people like Shri.kunjuppu ji who know malayalam as this is one of the universally accepted languages and i heard the incident when even Uri gagarin met one person selling cha'i speaking this dialect , when he landed in the moon for the first time ever !

 

[kunjuppu]

.. a couple of more observations..

i think, many of us, among ourselves, use as much brahmin tamil as we currently practice. i am speaking mainly of my friends in canada, or my relatives in india.

the older the generation, there is more of tamil.

i have nieces and nephews from all over the world. they hardly know any tamil.

i found the same with other tamil groups from india.

the south african tamils have been removed and isolated from tamil nadu for too long to speak tamil.

not so are our sri lankan tamil brethrens. they have a love for the language, way of life, food and religion, that probably some of us would envy.

they have been successful in imparting those qualities to the next generation, here in canada.

the only other indian group that i know to some extent are bengalis. i have found them ensuring their children, at the least, speak bengali.

brahmin tamil, may be dying, due to its absence of patronage among the brahmins themselves.

i would not fault other communites for this phenomenon. i think, too often, we look at others as the cause of our supposed shortcomings.

a little more introspection, and willing to admit weakness, may go a long way, i think, in find cures.

lastly, paarppaan, is an ancient tamil word, mentioned even in the classics. some may use it deragatory. i don't. i don't find anything wrong in kamal using it in a public forum.

so is the word andhanan.

i would also dispute iyer's claim about superiority of brahmin tamil though the thought of brahmins 'pumping' tamil dialect should be an interesting exercise to watch. maybe he can give us some pointers?