Brahimn Boy Marrying Kayastha Girl

[AkshayS]

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I have been researching on this topic for a very long time. However, I did not find any conclusive answers yet.
Kayasthas are believed to be descendants of Shri Chitragupta, who is 17th child of Brahma, born from his mind and soul. However, no information gives a valid answer as to which varna does the Kayasthas belong to. So, a Brahmin boy of Srivatsa Gothra marrying a girl belonging to Kayastha community of Kashyapa Gotra, is it valid.?

 

[renuka]

I have been researching on this topic for a very long time. However, I did not find any conclusive answers yet.
Kayasthas are believed to be descendants of Shri Chitragupta, who is 17th child of Brahma, born from his mind and soul. However, no information gives a valid answer as to which varna does the Kayasthas belong to. So, a Brahmin boy of Srivatsa Gothra marrying a girl belonging to Kayastha community of Kashyapa Gotra, is it valid.?

Legally it will be valid.
The law does not forbid the marriage of a male and female.

 

[Kaymakshi]

Of course it is valid. I hope you do not believe in caste preservation etc in this day and age. I think we need to get out of that mindset if we want a renaissance in Hinduism.
In Hinduism anyway if you find one shastra one precedent for one interpretation, you will soon find another rule and another precedent. We are an old and fluid civilisation and you should not worry about it.
If you want to be kattar, a man marrying a lower caste woman is acceptable in Hinduism but not the other way around. I guess this is caste discrimination multiplied by gender discrimination.
In terms of examples of kayasths marrying Brahmins, pls look no further than Amitabh Bachchan and Jaya Bhaduri. AB's father, noted poet Harivanshrai Bachchan in his autobiographical memoirs kya bhooloon, kya yaad karoon proudly says that Kayasths were some sort of special Shudras - his words not mine. They are kanakapillais by profession (that is why descendants of chitragupta) and they have some interesting rights - for example they wear Brahmin style sari ties when they marry. There are many important kayasthas in history for example Raja Todarmal who was Finance minister to Akbar and it is their brilliance blah blah which has now allowed them in the North at least to transcend their varna and stand apart.
Jaya Bhaduri was born in a Brahmin family and apparently her father was very unhappy about her marrying AB.
But why are you doing all this research - ask the Kayastha and they will tell you. And I hope you are not using all this info for creating mischief. More power to the intercaste marriage.

 

[CHANDRU1849]

Legally it will be valid.
The law does not forbid the marriage of a male and female.

Also, a male and a male and of course female and female.

 

[renuka]

Also, a male and a male and of course female and female.

I dont think India has a sanctioned same sex marriage yet.

 

[KRN]

I have been researching on this topic for a very long time. However, I did not find any conclusive answers yet.
Kayasthas are believed to be descendants of Shri Chitragupta, who is 17th child of Brahma, born from his mind and soul. However, no information gives a valid answer as to which varna does the Kayasthas belong to. So, a Brahmin boy of Srivatsa Gothra marrying a girl belonging to Kayastha community of Kashyapa Gotra, is it valid.?

What is invalid in that?

If you were researching on the varna that Kayasthas belong to, the below excerpt from a lecture of Swami Vivekananda (a Kayastha) might help you : -

"One word more: I read in the organ of the social reformers that I am called a Shudra and am challenged as to what right a Shudra has to become a Sannyasin. To which I reply: I trace my descent to one at whose feet every Brahmin lays flowers when he utters the words — यमाय धर्मराजाय चित्रगुप्ताय वै नमः — and whose descendants are the purest of Kshatriyas. If you believe in your mythology or your Paurânika scriptures, let these so-called reformers know that my caste, apart from other services in the past, ruled half of India for centuries. If my caste is left out of consideration, what will there be left of the present-day civilisation of India? In Bengal alone, my blood has furnished them with their greatest philosopher, the greatest poet, the greatest historian, the greatest archaeologist, the greatest religious preacher; my blood has furnished India with the greatest of her modern scientists. These detractors ought to have known a little of our own history, and to have studied our three castes, and learnt that the Brahmin, the Kshatriya, and the Vaishya have equal right to be Sannyasins: the Traivarnikas have equal right to the Vedas. This is only by the way. I just refer to this, but I am not at all hurt if they call me a Shudra. It will be a little reparation for the tyranny of my ancestors over the poor. If I am a Pariah, I will be all the more glad, for I am the disciple of a man, who — the Brahmin of Brahmins — wanted to cleanse the house of a Pariah. Of course the Pariah would not allow him; how could he let this Brahmin Sannyasin come and cleanse his house! And this man woke up in the dead of night, entered surreptitiously the house of this Pariah, cleansed his latrine, and with his long hair wiped the place, and that he did day after day in order that he might make himself the servant of all. I bear the feet of that man on my head; he is my hero; that hero's life I will try to imitate. By being the servant of all, a Hindu seeks to uplift himself. That is how the Hindus should uplift the masses, and not by looking for any foreign influence. Twenty years of occidental civilisation brings to my mind the illustration of the man who wants to starve his own friend in a foreign land, simply because this friend is popular, simply because he thinks that this man stands in the way of his making money. And the other is the illustration of what genuine, orthodox Hinduism itself will do at home. Let any one of our reformers bring out that life, ready to serve even a Pariah, and then I will sit at his feet and learn, and not before that. One ounce of practice is worth twenty thousand tons of big talk. "

https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_...es_from_Colombo_to_Almora/My_Plan_of_Campaign

 

[prasad1]

It depends on where you live and who your friends are.
In Haryana kapp panchayat have you punished.
In small villages mixed caste marriages are frowned upon.
In Metro cities it is not a big deal.

 

[Naina_Marbus]

The relevance of such questions is highly debatable in present-day society.
However, the original poster asked this question: "a Brahmin boy of Srivatsa Gothra marrying a girl belonging to Kayastha community of Kashyapa Gotra, is it valid.?"

It is not clear in what context we should even consider addressing/discussing the "validity" of such questions. However, my answer directly addresses that question in the most traditional context.

During the Vedic Age, there was a kind of marriage called Anuloma Marriage, which referred to inter-caste marriages, a practice according to which a boy from upper varna / caste / class can marry a girl from lower varna / caste / class.

There was also a practice called Pratiloma Marriage, in which a man of lower class / caste / varna marries a girl of higher class / caste / varna. Such cases are also recorded in the Vedic texts.

 

[prasad1]

[QUOTE="AkshayS, post: 417838, member: 83969"
Kayastha community of Kashyapa Gotra, is it valid.?[/QUOTE]

How did Kayastha acquire Gothra?

noted poet Harivanshrai Bachchan in his autobiographical memoirs kya bhooloon, kya yaad karoon proudly says that Kayasths were some sort of special Shudras - his words not mine.

 

[AkshayS]

Dear all thank you for your reply. I am not questioning the validity of this marriage, all I am asking is how does the brahmin community takes a note on this. My parents being quite orthodox might not fully accept to this. So I was wondering how elderlies react when such a situation is presented before them. I am not sure how many of those who replied are elderlies but glad to hear such free radicals thoughts by people. Hopefully I can present a strong case before my parents now.
Thank you all

 

[AkshayS]

The relevance of such questions is highly debatable in present-day society.
However, the original poster asked this question: "a Brahmin boy of Srivatsa Gothra marrying a girl belonging to Kayastha community of Kashyapa Gotra, is it valid.?"

It is not clear in what context we should even consider addressing/discussing the "validity" of such questions. However, my answer directly addresses that question in the most traditional context.

During the Vedic Age, there was a kind of marriage called Anuloma Marriage, which referred to inter-caste marriages, a practice according to which a boy from upper varna / caste / class can marry a girl from lower varna / caste / class.

There was also a practice called Pratiloma Marriage, in which a man of lower class / caste / varna marries a girl of higher class / caste / varna. Such cases are also recorded in the Vedic texts.

I am not questioning the validity of it sir. Just wanted to know how people of our community feel about this. Thanks for your insightful answer

 

[KRN]

Dear all thank you for your reply. I am not questioning the validity of this marriage, all I am asking is how does the brahmin community takes a note on this. My parents being quite orthodox might not fully accept to this. So I was wondering how elderlies react when such a situation is presented before them. I am not sure how many of those who replied are elderlies but glad to hear such free radicals thoughts by people. Hopefully I can present a strong case before my parents now.
Thank you all

But do you really think that people will be entirely honest about their feelings on a sensitive subject in a forum like this?

 

[KRN]

Hope that the quotation from Swami Vivekananda will help clinch things with your parents

 

[AkshayS]

But do you really think that people will be entirely honest about their feelings on a sensitive subject in a forum like this?

I suppose if people cannot be honest even at an anonymous forum like this, then they can be honest no where.

 

[prasad1]

Both KRNji and Akshaysji nay be right.
We express an opinion but when it comes to a personal issue we may act differently.

For instance, nobody will admit to cannibalism, but in the Argentine mine collapse case Human flesh was chopped off. So it is very difficult to predict what we are capable of doing, even though I might profess to be vegetarian. So an honest opinion is a Situation bound.

Yes we are anonymous to an extent, but we have had personal contacts with other member, So we are not truly Anonymous.

 

[renuka]

I suppose if people cannot be honest even at an anonymous forum like this, then they can be honest no where.

Dear Akshay...
The honesty of others do not matter.
Its your honesty to the girl you love is what matters.

To fall in love..to let another human have hope in you that you would stand by her side and marry her is the honesty needed.

If I ever was in a situation like this and a man actually needed social media to decide to marry me..I would ditch him right away and marry someone else..not becos I dont love him becos a he has doubts and if caste was so important one should have just stuck on to an arranged marriage.

You cant please everyone in this world..be it mum or dad or anyone.

So dont doubt the honesty of anyone here..ask yourself..
Am I honest enough to my girlfriend?

 

[KRN]

I agree with Renukaji. Initially I thought you were just seeking information about the varna that Kayasthas belong to. The 'elderlies' in this forum might share their general opinions on this matter but your parents have more at stake and will have their own reasons for taking a stand in this matter. My final advice to you is to take any step for furthering your happiness, but never compromise on the Brahmin culture and traditions that you inherited from your ancestors.

 

[AkshayS]

Hello All,
This post was just to seek opinion and not to decide anything. We understand that it is in our and our parent's hand to take the final call over this.
We truly appreciate all who took out time and expressed their opinions and views here.

 

[Jaykay767]

Dear Akshay,

Any decision that is different to a well travelled path comes with consequences. Based on this, you should decide what you ar comfortable to live with.

1. Orthodox parents will be devastated by your decision. People say we come alone and go alone. This is wrong, we are always bound by our families, relatives and duties.

2. Family culture - your family culture will be very different because your wife comes from a different community. she may or may not adopt our to culture.

3. Most TB and Brahmins will not marry your kids. Some TBs I know, who had intercaste marriages 30 yrs back are struggling to get their kids married to brahmins.

4. 1000s of years of your family traditions and culture will be lost forever. As your kids will not belong to TBs.

5. After you reach 40s, most will want to reconnect with their culture and traditions after having settled in life. After settling down financnially, most will look to religion.

6. You will feel intense personal loss of culture traditions by marrying outside of TBs. and you can't share this with anyone in the family.

7. You will feel intense personal loss for having put your kids in this mess.

Think 10 times before you proceed. Remember love is temporary, loss is permanent.

JK

 

[Jaykay767]

Most TB intercaste kids want to marry only TBs, which will compound this even more !!