before we eat

[drsundaram]

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There is an age old practise in our homes [many of those who are aged above 45 know] that a handful of cooked rice with/without cooked paruppu with /without little ghee is offered to crow by calling Kaa, kaa, kaa,
Apart from the reasons that[1] we should offer food to some other creatures before we eat or [2]we chose crow as it is represents Pithrus, are there any reasons for preferring crows. Why we do not call a dog and offer the same? or along with crows dogs also. But by default dogs are thrown with left overs at the end .
Can esteemed members provide references, please.

 

[renuka]

Dear Dr.Sundaram,
I have also wondered that.Some say Crow is the Vehicle of Sani Bhagawan hence by feeding crows a little of our ill luck is taken away.
I dont know how far this is true. Its just what I heard once.
Anyway there is no harm feeding all creatures of God right from ants( by drawing Kolams) to dogs and cats.
When I was a child my family had dogs and cats at our home and some monkeys from the nearby jungle would come daily.
We use to feed them fresh food and not left overs.
Its nice a feeling giving animals fresh food.

 

[C RAVI]

Dr Sundaram ji,

You are right. The major belief is Crows are considered representatives of our pithrus and thus we offer on regular basis.

It gives us immense pleasure as well.

Dr.Renuka ji,

The belief of warding off our ill lucks and Sani dosha by feeding crows before we eat, crows being vahana of Saneeswaran is also believed by large.

I could comment on this, because in our home we perform many vedic activities and I used to ask some of the questions to Vathiyars. I got the positive reply from them that's been told by my parents as well.

Feeding other creatures like dogs, rates, cats, birds etc..that too not the left over, I think, need to be considered as one's moral goodness. When ever I go to a nearby shop and find a dog following me and show indications of demanding something to eat, I use to by something called "Porai" and feed the dog with my hand, unless there are multiple no. of dogs when I would require to throw them in different directions so that each can have its share. And I love to feed cows some bananas with my hand as well. These I think would bear no religious/vedic reasoning (Perhaps feeding cows would be considered auspicious in Shaastrams but I am not sure whether necessarily to he hand fed) but would be purely on one’s love and respect for other creatures and one’s moral goodness in general

Likewise, in our home we have an another practice. During religious ceremonies and festivals when we take food in banana leaf, my mother used to advise us not the wipe of the whole food stuff on the leaf. Leave little bit of verities while throwing the leaf at the end so that the creatures would have some left over to eat. This we follow. I think this can not be treated as disrespect to other creatures as we are not deliberately offering them.

 

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To Drs ji, Crow is very senstive bird, before taking food to know whether any harmful foreign materials and poison is mixed so people started to offer food to Crow. If we offer any thing in this meterial world nothing will reach to the pithrus. It is just moodanambikai. Once a soul left the Human body all relationships end. Saint ThiruMoolar says , Afterdeath the name will be removed and called Peenam, carring to the Cremation ground they will burnit and they took bath in nearby bathing place and while return they will forget the persons thoughts.Sorry I am not having Tamil Text to Type the poem. Offering to any living creature is a good thing that to offer freash food is too good .s.r.k.

 

[C RAVI]

Sri S R K ji,

If not mistaken may I humbly request you to clarify my doubts based on your reply?

Taken for granted, I have stated my doubts in brown....

To Drs ji, Crow is very senstive bird, before taking food to know whether any harmful foreign materials and poison is mixed so people started to offer food to Crow.

- Why there is a practice of offering home made fresh food on a regular basis only once in the morning?

If we offer any thing in this meterial world nothing will reach to the pithrus. It is just moodanambikai. Once a soul left the Human body all relationships end. Saint ThiruMoolar says , Afterdeath the name will be removed and called Peenam, carring to the Cremation ground they will burnit and they took bath in nearby bathing place and while return they will forget the persons thoughts.

- I can agree and understand that once the soul departed, the relationship physically comes to cease. If your reasoning is valid than why a belief about karmic bondage exists? Why we perfom Thavasam/Hriniya Shraadam yearly? While performing monthly Ammavasaya Tharpanam, Mahalay Patcham (that last for couple of days) we offer ellu tharpanam to our pithrus by pronouncing the names of our departed ancestors both from the father side and mother side?

s.r.k.

If my queries found to be ridiculous, kindly excuse me for my ignorance.

 

[drsundaram]

Dear Dr.Sundaram,
I have also wondered that.Some say Crow is the Vehicle of Sani Bhagawan hence by feeding crows a little of our ill luck is taken away.
I dont know how far this is true. Its just what I heard once.
Anyway there is no harm feeding all creatures of God right from ants( by drawing Kolams) to dogs and cats.
When I was a child my family had dogs and cats at our home and some monkeys from the nearby jungle would come daily.
We use to feed them fresh food and not left overs.
Its nice a feeling giving animals fresh food.

It is thoughtful of you, Smt Renuka, to have remembered about Kolam meant for eating by ants. Nowadays not many prepare rice flour which is what is to be used for Kolams. So white powder[stone crushed] which is cheaper is used and no ants go near to that powder. And all sorts of colouring matter is also used which are rather harmful if eaten by crows or by ants. Those days the crows will be waiting to peck immediatley after a kolum is drawn and now all of us know. Any way many thanks for recalling this post which is quite some time back.
God bless you.

 

[SUNDARJI]

To Drs ji, Crow is very senstive bird, before taking food to know whether any harmful foreign materials and poison is mixed so people started to offer food to Crow. If we offer any thing in this meterial world nothing will reach to the pithrus. It is just moodanambikai. Once a soul left the Human body all relationships end. Saint ThiruMoolar says , Afterdeath the name will be removed and called Peenam, carring to the Cremation ground they will burnit and they took bath in nearby bathing place and while return they will forget the persons thoughts.Sorry I am not having Tamil Text to Type the poem. Offering to any living creature is a good thing that to offer freash food is too good .s.r.k.

dear sir,
performing about pithrus or giving to pay to pithrus any thing is not moodanambikai, this is our believes that what eer we doing for pithrus is good for our family just like we do poooja and naivediyam to god . so pls as a brahmin dont says this moodanambiokai. pls dont take me mistake
thank you

 

[pvraman]

Then it should be called Nambikkai only.

Cheers

 

[Raghy]

There is an age old practise in our homes [many of those who are aged above 45 know] that a handful of cooked rice with/without cooked paruppu with /without little ghee is offered to crow by calling Kaa, kaa, kaa,
Apart from the reasons that[1] we should offer food to some other creatures before we eat or [2]we chose crow as it is represents Pithrus, are there any reasons for preferring crows. Why we do not call a dog and offer the same? or along with crows dogs also. But by default dogs are thrown with left overs at the end .
Can esteemed members provide references, please.

Sri drSundaram sir,

A you mentioned, crow may be representing pithrus as I have heard from many persons, the other reason may be, the abundance of crows. Also crows readily trust the humans and take the food. (here in Australia, the ravens take a long time to trust; the 'magpies' trust humans very quickly and take the food from the hand; in the mornings make a racket asking for food. If the crows eat the food first, the reminder of the food is not considered 'shesham'.

If the dog ate the food first, the rest of the food is 'shesham'. From what our vadhiyar said, I understand that, in the case of 'pithru karyam', if the dog ate any of the food prepared for the ceremony (even the leftovers), the whole ceremony becomes nul and void.

References?:noidea::noidea:

 

[C RAVI]

Then it should be called Nambikkai only.

Cheers

Sri pvraman ji,

It is neither a Nambikkai nor a Moodanambikkai...

These are the defined principles of Brahmanism and has its own validity and spiritual/cultural importance as per Brahmin Shaastram & Sampradayam

If the rituals we perform are just moodanambikar, than why should we worry about inter-cast marriages? Why should we worry to sustain Brahmin community? Brahmins are differentiated from NB's only by way of karmic rituals/sampradayams, poojai panishkaram in a systematic way (following madi/aachaaram) and being strict vegetarian.

We can least bothered about prayers to God (because we pray to satisfy ourself) but we should not avoid doing Pitru Karyam.

 

[drsundaram]

dear sri raghy, I agree there are contradictions on what Vadyar says,.as quoted by you . Let some learned pundits correctly update us..But what is Sri SRK triyng to tell me/us. Moodanambikai, departed soul's connection of whatsoever cut off after death, crow being used to pass a poison test. Can we rightfully kill a sensitive bird in case of food poisoning, according to him. How many of our members agree with him..... Or Have I got him wrong...

 

[C RAVI]

Sri drSundaram sir,


If the dog ate the food first, the rest of the food is 'shesham'. From what our vadhiyar said, I understand that, in the case of 'pithru karyam', if the dog ate any of the food prepared for the ceremony (even the leftovers), the whole ceremony becomes nul and void.

References?:noidea::noidea:

Sri Raghy ji,

You have pointed out correctly as per the prevailing vedic shaastram.

I could now recollect the incident pertaining to your statements.

Couple of years before in our house after performing Pitru Karman (Thavasam), and a Vathiyar (I think 1 vathiyar who dind't actively involved in vedic procedures of the Karyam had food) and a "Savandi Karan" had their food on a banana leaf, we were asked to dig them under the ground properly and not to just dispose in a bin where there would be chances of dogs eating the leftovers.

 

[Raghy]

To Drs ji, Crow is very senstive bird, before taking food to know whether any harmful foreign materials and poison is mixed so people started to offer food to Crow. If we offer any thing in this meterial world nothing will reach to the pithrus. It is just moodanambikai. Once a soul left the Human body all relationships end. Saint ThiruMoolar says , Afterdeath the name will be removed and called Peenam, carring to the Cremation ground they will burnit and they took bath in nearby bathing place and while return they will forget the persons thoughts.Sorry I am not having Tamil Text to Type the poem. Offering to any living creature is a good thing that to offer freash food is too good .s.r.k.

Sri. S.R.K,

As Sri. DrSundaram Sir mentioned, there are a lot of people who see feeding the crow as feeding the pithrus. What is more; in our home, during thivasam, the vadhiyar would sit to eat 'brahmanatha bojanam' only after crows eat the 'pindam'. I have actually seen him waiting for over 15 minutes! (one thivasam is few days before deepaavali. He always had tough time getting the crows due to the isloated firecracker noises around)! Sri. DrSundaram Sir is not discussing about Pithru Karyam at all; He is enquiring about the importance of crows.

I agree with Sri Ravi who raised the reasonable question when he asked why should we test the home made food, that too everyday normal simple food? I don't know when people tested the food by feeding it to crows, but we don't do that in our day to day practice.

With all due respect to Thirumoolar, we don't offer pithru pindam to 'pinam'; but the believing people offer it to the pithrus in the form of Atman; non-believer like me offer it to some underprevileged persons who may thank my father. Personally I would not criticise someone's faith as long as it does not hinder someone else.

 

[SUNDARJI]

Then it should be called Nambikkai only.

Cheers

dear res. sir
this is not only nambikai. i refer this word only to reply for moodanambikai. All the karmas only for brahmins. other wise why should we brahmin, our duty to perform the pithuru karma and samskaram which rishigal nala nischikapaturuku.
as veda saya shradhya kriyate karya is shrardam. we can slip from the god pooja but not fram pitru karma. If any work is not happen likelate marriage or if married girl is not able toget conceive then jyothis says pithru dosam. There fore in our cultureley pitrukaryathuku nariye mahatvam kuruturaku.
if i am wrong pls correct me sir
thank you
om arunachaleswaraya namaha

 

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To All: I have read all the reply's and I wanted to convey to Dr,Sunderam that o
ffering food to Crow is a regular practice and that 'swhy I said it is moodanambikai.
Pithru Kariyams and offering food to Crow is some thing mismatching and also after thavasm the left over in the bannaleaf s shoud not throw in the dust bins but to burying in the ground will be safe in the ground thousands of unvisible creatures living and they will eat. The main reson told by our vathiyars because they will waste so much food on the day and if we throw them outside the people will say how much food has been wasted, to avoid this kind of things the vathiyars says so many unlogical things. When I was performing my fathers thavasm the sastrigal told me clean the leaf from leftovers and throw the leafs in the dustbin and leftovers can offerto a Cow. Is it is corret. Crooked person like me asked lot of q to the vathiyars in early century and get aniod vathiyars said if we are not following the tradations will be a sin, so like this offering to Crow also said that is offering to the pithrus. So I am not against TB's Sentiments but we must think positive way. s.r.k.

 

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To All TB members Being a Brahmin by wearing Poonul,following Karmas and other rituals is not going to show as a Brahmin but the Brahmins means an example to all and show to others how to live a moral life and teach the same to others,Brahmin is having a meaning that is realized Soul. Parpan means those who see the God with in Him. I wish to point out that I am not against any Brahmincal rituals and tradational follows. s.r.k.

 

[Raghy]

To All TB members Being a Brahmin by wearing Poonul,following Karmas and other rituals is not going to show as a Brahmin but the Brahmins means an example to all and show to others how to live a moral life and teach the same to others,Brahmin is having a meaning that is realized Soul. Parpan means those who see the God with in Him. I wish to point out that I am not against any Brahmincal rituals and tradational follows. s.r.k.

Sri. S.R.K,

This is a very well put message. Thanks for the clarifications.

 

[maheshcr]

As Mr. Ravi Ji said, one should not avoid doing pitru karyam's. Each one's opinion may differ, whether one is having belief or not, ultimately unanimous opinion may be that it's one's sole duty / responsibility. Being in USA, some of the priests that help me with Tharpanam monthly say not many do that which I personally think is a mistake. Ultimately, the way I see it is even if a person doesn't have belief in doing so, why shouldn't it be done for their departed ancestor?

Regards,

 

[Nara]

...some of the priests that help me with Tharpanam monthly say not many do that which I personally think is a mistake.

Dear Sir,

How many people do you think even know when Tharpanams are to be done. Sometims, the right time for Tharpanam may be late in the afternoon. One is supposed to not eat anything until the thanrpanam is completed at the proper time and then only eat.

How many konw on what occassions Tharpanam need to be done? Many do tharpanam on Amvasya and a selected few birth of sowramana months, not all.

There are some sowramana tharpanams that must be done before the birth of the month and some others that must be done after. How many do that?

How many do tharpanam for Ashtaka and Anuvashtaka tharpanams?

It is all a crap shoot.

People do what they can and feel they have fulfilled their duty. They never make even a feeble attempt to find out what is required. Yet they are the first to admire the great tradition, what I refer to as delusions of grandeur.

What is the point of it all? Is doing tharpanam more important than being an understanding parent? Is it more important than being a nice human being with love in the heart?

Quoting The Beatles, I say, Love is all you need!

 

[maheshcr]

They never make even a feeble attempt to find out what is required. Yet they are the first to admire the great tradition, what I refer to as delusions of grandeur.

[Response] People not making an attempt to find out what is required to do tharpanam is the very base problem.

What is the point of it all? Is doing tharpanam more important than being an understanding parent? Is it more important than being a nice human being with love in the heart?

[Response] I would say doing tharpanam is equally important as being an understanding parent. If there's love in the heart, why doesn't one do tharpanam atleast for the sake of love in their heart?

The tradition says by doing tharpanam it's also providing food to the pitrus (ancestors). Whether one has belief in it or not, if there's all the love in the heart, why doesn't that love make an initiative to see how to do the tharpanam.

 

[kr subramanian]

I have heard that for Pithrukkal our one year is their one day. Hence feeding once in our year means feeding them daily. Regarding crow feeding I have not seen such practices in northern India even amoung brahmins. Hence I feel this culture is only with us south Indians that also especially tamil brahmins. Please correct me If I am wrong.
Whether nambikkai or moodanambikkai it is forcefully remembering them once a year and on thar care of close relatives will be assembling . We have to see that in earlier days when there were no phone/email facilities functions were only way to get members of a family together. Whether the function was for good or bad they gather together.

ATHAI AND MAMA were given importance in every function, which I think is to bring together relatives of Husband and wife,

In this modern era when even within a nuclear family members are confining into oneself (not to speak of neighbours/relatives) I think these rituals etc are essential to follow.

 

[DURGADASAN]

Dear all

In addition to the normal activities associated with one's profession (varna dharma) and stage in life (Ashrama dharma), the daily routine of a devout Hindu is to perform pancha maha yagnas (five daily duties) and pancha nitya karmas (five constant duties). These are the minimal practices which guide a person in everyday life and ensure peace, material and spiritual prosperity.

• Worship God (Deva Yagna) in the form of a family deity (Ishta Devata) in the home shrine through prayers and meditations. This practice helps one to become God-conscious in all daily activities. Additionally, this practice arouses a sense of togetherness in the family, since the family members worship together and participate in the rituals, chants, singing, and study of scriptures. Tradition says that "a family that prays together stays together."
• Study Vedas and other scriptures (Brahma Yagna). This practice refreshes one's mind with sacred knowledge and also helps to preserve and enrich such knowledge.
• Contemplate on the teachings of the sages, saints, holy men and women, and one's forefathers (Pitri Yagna). This practice is intended to serve as a reminder to preserve, enrich and continue one's cultural heritage and family values.
• Provide food for those who are in need (Bhuta Yagna). This practice is intended to create the spirit of sharing with other beings.
• Serve guests with love, respect, and reverence (Nara Yagna or Athithi yagna). This practice is the basis for the traditional hospitality of Hindu households

Feeding the crow comes under the "Bootha yagna". Crows are very sensitive. The basic biology of birds and animals differs. Birds need only a small quantity of food when compared to animals. As they need to fly, they always keep their body light-weighted. So, it will not be a problem for us to feed them. But dogs and other beings eat some more food (Sometimes equivalent to a man). In these cases, only after eating everyone, we can provide the left-over to them. This is my POV as a person in home.

Since crows are very sensitive and their digestive system is so pakka, that they digest everything more rapidly than humans, it will be very easy to check any food-poisoning in the food. Though the crows are our daily visitors, noone grows them as pet animals. Instead if we check the same with our pet animals like dogs or cats, it will end up in sorrow. This is my POV as a science student.

Crows are considered as "pithrus" and also the emblem of shri saniswara (Kaaga thwajam only- his vehicle is eagle and certainly not the crow; Like the emblem of manmada is fish, the emblem of saniswara is crow), by pleasing them we can easily please the fore-fathers and also shri saniswara.

My dear Ravi
In almost all brahmin houses, after eating in banana leaves they will left over something for other beings to eat. Thanks for sharing the info at right time.

A tamil proverb says "நாய்க்கு சோறு போட்டா நல்ல வழியை காட்டும்
பூனைக்கு சோறு போட்டா பொட்ட வழியை காட்டும்"... (this is actually to say dogs are more freindly to us and also they even give their lives for us. But the cats are always mischievous and also they never believe humans)

Anyhow as a human-being without any difference, feed all the animals as much as possible (ANNADANAMUM AVASIAM PANNANUM- feeding our own human-beings is also essential na).

Pranams

 

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to Durga Dasan: Well set. s.r.k.

 

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To All: I wanted ask one question, following Smartha sampirthyam and follow of worshiping Sivan, why in tharpanam and Thevasam in sangalpam vishnu names used, why their is a visnu ealai. All this told in the Vetham or any other scriptures. Can any one other than Vaishna members explain. s.r.k.