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Astrology pandits here?

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Dear Sri maruti Ji,

Rahu positioned in the 7th house from Lagna or joined with the 7th Lord in other houses of the horoscope will usually produce a non-traditional marriage. But other tempering influences must also be taken in to account, such as the influences of benefic and malefic planets on the 7th house and it's lord.

I am not an astrology pandit, but know a bit of Vedic Astrology fundamentals.

Pranams,
KRS
 
it is not rahu but raghu in the 7th house down the street

My friend nalini says it is not rahu but raghu in the 7th house down the street who aspected her and after mutual aspect they ran away

icon10.gif


cheers
 
Dear Sri maruti Ji,

Rahu positioned in the 7th house from Lagna or joined with the 7th Lord in other houses of the horoscope will usually produce a non-traditional marriage. But other tempering influences must also be taken in to account, such as the influences of benefic and malefic planets on the 7th house and it's lord.

I am not an astrology pandit, but know a bit of Vedic Astrology fundamentals.

Pranams,
KRS

Thank you so much for your kind response, Sri KRS Ji. I seem to have the exact position you mentioned, and am also involved in one such relationship. Diff. caste/region. I am Brahmin, she's not. I am SI, she's Northie. I am hoping what you say about planetary positions is true, cuz I am desperately in love with her.:pray:

To Others: Please don't trivialize this by posting silly jokes. If you have nothing to add, don't post.
 
Dear Sri maruti ji,

One's correctly computed horoscope is nothing but the map of one's Prarabdha karma to be manifested in one's life time. We can not change the karma phala, we can only with a detached mind focus on Him in this life time to avoid any future karmas and thus change the course of our eternal existence. So, if it is in the cards that you will marry this friend of yours, no human being can change that. If it is not supposed to happen no human being on earth can make it happen. Prayer to withstand any outcome and a detached attitude will carry you through these types of events in your life. Just the same, I am praying that your wishes will come true.

Vedic Astrology was developed by many rishis, two in particular. Rishi Parshara is acknowledged as the father of vedic astrology and Rishi Jaimini also contributed heavily. People usually deride astrology because they try to use it the wrong way. For example, when one does the horoscope matching for marriage, the parents are very happy thinking that a long marriage is assured. When it does not come to pass, they lose their faith in astrology.

Astrology is an art. It has so many complexities, it can not be practiced as a computational riddle. It is also a divine art. This means that an event will happen and any astrologer reading the horoscope will miss it, if they are supposed to (their eyes will be made shut from the event). This is why, astrology should not be used to plan out and arrange specific events in one's life. Even if one does so, one should always understand that the divine Hand is at work.

In my 45 years or so of trying to understand this art, I marvel at the system our forefathers have developed, understanding the roles of the nava grahas in our mortal / material life.

Good luck to you.

Pranams,
KRS
 
Conquerors of Astrology?

Dear Sri KRS,

I read your most interesting posting on astrology.

What are your views on Sri Yukteswar Giri's following introductory remarks in 'The Holy Science', a treatise on astrology?

"There are indeed exceptional personages now living who, having overcome the influence of Time, can grasp today what ordinary people cannot grasp; but this book is not for those exalted ones, who require nothing of it."

This quote also seems to be in keeping with:

"Sivaya namah yena sindiththirupporku abaayam yethum illai".

I guess I am trying to say that there are strong suggestions that it is possible to 'overcome' or reach a stage where one is untouched by astrology.

What are your reflections on this?
 
it was not just a joke.

it was not just a joke. it has deeper meaning.

It means don't blame your horoscope for everything. Dont justify your actions blaming it on horoscopes. So just because some one has some planet somewhere it does not mean he can justify his actions based on that.

Astrology may be a good science but very rarely are there anyone who can forecast correctly. kalidasa says that even brahma cant predict a person's future so what about mere mortals attempting predictions.
Besides, nothing is fixed. It is for each individual to shape her/his destiny and not blame it on horoscopes.

That is what I meant with that "joke". one has to be smart enough to understand the meaning behind that.

Cheers
Gautham
:ranger:
 
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Dear Sowbhagyavathi Chintana Ji,

Thank you for your question. As best as I can, let me answer.

The great Ramana Maharishi's end of life must have been painful, He had a cancer on His arm that spread even after surgery and He attained Moksha with His body ravaged by the disease.

During this time, a debate broke out among His various Vedic scholor devotees about the origin of the disease. Hear is a Bhagawan, who clearly being a realised soul - an incarnation of Dhakshinamoorthy Himself, and beyond all time, who is being subject to such a malady. Two different opinions were debated.

One was that the Bhagawan having been at the side of a few souls when they left their mortal coils (including His mother and His beloved cow, 'Lakshmi' among others), took on the Karmas of such souls on Himself and allowed them to attain Moksha (He did say that each of them attained such a state). So their Karmas manifested on His body as cancer.

The other argument was that He was experiencing His own Karma Phala in this life, because once one is born, one's Karma Phala will manifest according to the 'plan' and no one can change it (we all know about the story of Markandeya). The mechanism is likened to an arrow already shot out of a bow - that can not change in direction and will reach the target.

We also know that Bhagawan Krishna was mortal and left his human coil, by being hit by an arrow. Why? Again, it is believed that it was because of a 'curse', which again is part of the Karma system.

I think when you say 'escape from astrology', you mean escape from the Karma Phala. Astrology after all goes in to how to predict one's manifestation of Karma Phala in this life.

My belief is that no human being can escape from their Karma Phala in the current life. Sages and Gnanis can not escape them either, but because of their vision they know how to seperate what is happening to their material being from the non changing entity called atma. This is why 'time' has no meaning for these Souls. What you say about Shiva also is the same. If you look at the most information laden and the terrific (I happen to think that this is the pinnacle of Indian art) art form of Nataraja, among ALL the signs of terrible images - skulls, fierceness, trampling on the rakshasha of 'ignorance', you will see His right hand raised, symbolizing His protection of our Atmans.

To sum up - my belief is that one can not change what will happen in the material world - but one can change what will happen in the future births by one's behaviour during this life time. This is why our religion places much value on doing one's 'Dharma' in this life.

Pranams,
KRS
 
blame the hscope

So if I get an offer for rs 50 lakhs bribe, can I blame it on my horoscope and take it-- saying that it was destined to be so.?


If i take it my curret life will be better. perhaps my next life may be bad?

If i did not take it perhaps my next life will be better. perhaps not.

But may be I can blame my horoscope and say that it put me in such a situation ---and whatever decision i take is only because of it ---and take the money ? and hence my next life should not be affected by this?

Long live astorology...

Cheers
gautham
:ranger:
 
So if I get an offer for rs 50 lakhs bribe, can I blame it on my horoscope and take it-- saying that it was destined to be so.?


If i take it my curret life will be better. perhaps my next life may be bad?

If i did not take it perhaps my next life will be better. perhaps not.

But may be I can blame my horoscope and say that it put me in such a situation ---and whatever decision i take is only because of it ---and take the money ? and hence my next life should not be affected by this?

Long live astorology...

Cheers
gautham
:ranger:

Dear Sri gautham Ji,

Karma and it's fruits are very central to our religion. This is the central concept in Gita. There the Lord says that we are only His instruments.

But we have freedom to do anything we want as our minds dictate, and reap the asociated Karma. Karma yoga thus enjoins us to offer each of our action to Him as a prasad and to act to the benefit of mankind. This is our prescribed Dharma. Any contrary action is Adharma and will result in huge negative Karma.

Karma Phala for actions in this life may occur during this life itself, not reserved exclusively for future lives.

Vedic Astrology was coneived by the sages not to encourage adharma or non action. It was mainly invented as a way for us to concentrate our mind on Him, not worry too much about the fruits of one's labor. There is a whole discipline of worship called 'Prayachitham', just for this purpose.

All the saints I know do not deride astrology. They think that our sages handed it down to us for our welfare. Astrology forms a part of our mathematical heritage, in addition to astronomy.

Putting the blame of astrology for one's adharmic action is like blaming Physics for inventing the Nuclear energy that contributed to the making and exploding of a nuclear bomb.

Same way, some folks use astrology in a decidedly wrong way. A man or a woman will do what he/she wants to do regardless.

There are some books on the market by some noted Vedic astrologers. May I humbly suggest that you read them to understand the constructive role astrology can play in a person's life? Just a suggestion. If you do not want to read them, I would understand it too.

Pranams,
KRS
 
So if I get an offer for rs 50 lakhs bribe, can I blame it on my horoscope and take it-- saying that it was destined to be so.?


If i take it my curret life will be better. perhaps my next life may be bad?

If i did not take it perhaps my next life will be better. perhaps not.

But may be I can blame my horoscope and say that it put me in such a situation ---and whatever decision i take is only because of it ---and take the money ? and hence my next life should not be affected by this?

Long live astorology...

Cheers
gautham
:ranger:

Dear Gautham,

God has created good and evil side by side in this world so that we can learn to CHOOSE good out of our own Free Will.

Everybody has to make efforts at attaining Moksha. Every good action goes toward bringing a person one step closer to Moksha.

In this process exercising one's Will Power is very crucial. One of the things that makes us different from animals is the ability to exercise our Will.

So if you consciously make a choice to do a wrong thing you will keep coming back on earth until you learn the right thing. If you don't mind doing that you are welcome to commit any kind of wrong doing. Afterall you have to bear the consequences, no one else.

But if you consciously choose to do the right thing each time, eventually your mind will become purified, your understanding will deepen and you will become that graceful receptacle of wisdom and maturity ready to receive the ultimate happiness and strong enough to lift yourself out of the earthly plane into the astral realms, never to come back here to suffer again.

It is YOUR CHOICE.

Hope you choose well.
 
What is the essence of Astrology ? or Why Astrology ?

KRS Sir / Chintana ji,

I don't know what category i fall into - i read the astrology sections of magazines with interest but i detest astrology -

Here is why :

a) KRS Sir, you have made several points in this thread but i am unable to quote them here as i am technologically challenged. However the essence of what you wrote is that there is no running away from "Karma Phala" & no force on earth can prevent the happening of what will happen. Then why astrology ?

b) If astrology helps one only to know what is in store as per his KP without any mitigating powers, then is it supposed to be used as a crash bag ! you are anyway destined to be involved in a crash, may be you could get away without hurting yourself too much....is this the purpose of astrology ?

c) Don't you think astrology has given birth to so many biases - to quote one i know of - the ubiquitous 'sevvai dosham'

d) Is Astrology an exact science ? I think not. The reason : Why there should be so many branches of Astrology ? After there is only one KP for an individual....Or is this the "multi dimensional view" of KP (afterall i am from the Business intelligence practice !)

e) Why the predictions vary with different astrologers ? Here i am not referring to the quacks....even if you were to approach say 3 eminent astrologers of the same branch, my (educated ?) guess is that there will be hardly 10% in common between them.

f) I am reminded of a scene in the movie Sri Raghavendra. Presuming this is an actual takeoff from the savant's life - 3 astrologers (different methods) estimate the life of Sri Raghavendra & come up with 3 numbers (they are no different from Economists are they ?)....78, 300, 1000 (approx)....in the final scene Sri Raghavendra reveals that 78 years was referring to his physical life, 300 years represents the number of years for his principles to be adopted & 1000 years representing the number of years the principles will stand the test of time. My question is : is this an "intelligent explanation" or does it highlight the fact that the conclusions are not right....

g) One serious doubt. Can Astrology say at the time of a child's birth give exactly the "brought forward balance" of the "Karma Phala" ? Can it also estimate the cycle of the child's birth ? Also can it provide the "Still to Go efforts" that the child needs to put in for Mukthi / Moksha ?

h) Taking of from what Chintana wrote, if the purpose of our life is to find our way to the "Bhagwan" why do we need astrology ?

i) Doesn't Astrology undermine the significance of effort in a human's life ? Sage Valluvar wrote : "Deivathal aaagadheninum muyarchi than mei varutha kooli tharum". But our man now is busy giving "kooli" to the astrologers & avoiding "muyarchi"........My grouse is if astrology was to be used as an "enabler" it has now been reduced to the level where i am afraid it is the biggest "disabler" in the path of progress

j) Is there any emphirical / scientific proof of the planets influencing life on earth ? If several decades later, humans successfully migrate to other planets (i wonder what will be the sq ft rate ?), will that mean disproving the effect theory ?

with respectful pranams,
 
sirs= i think astrology is like opinion polls. they may go wrong sometimes, sometimes they may be 100% accurate. i think astrology is born out of experience and observations of so many persons. so like psephology, the basis may not be wrong but the results may not be correct always due to so many factors.

But i am not sure whether you can make specific predictions based on a person's horoscope. for e.g. you can say whether a person's time is good or bad based on his horoscope. but even when your time is good, you may have to face some failures. even when your time is bad , you may taste some successes. the bottomline is , when your time is good you may experience failures, but it will not affect you in any manner. if your time is bad, still you may succeed in some spheres, but only after undergoing some amount of difficulty. also, if a husband's time is bad as per his horoscope, but his wife's time is good, then because of the effect of the wife, the husband's difficulties could get reduced and vice versa. similarly because of some repentance by way of parihaaram, the difficulties may get reduced.

in any case astrology is a very interesting subject.
 
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Dear Sri Hariharan,

I am not at all surprised to hear that you detest astrology. Not wanting to know what is in store for you in the future and having a very sceptical mind is very healthy. As I said, Vedic astrology has been misused. Let me try to answer each of the points you have raised.

a) This is because for some people it is useful, especially in the areas of disease and health, understanding one's personality trait etc. As I have said, one can not change the Karma Phala. But one can change one's outlook on life by Prayachitham, which is designed to make one more spiritual. Kanchi Kamakoti Maha Periaval has said that experiencing joys and pleasures in the material world are the true sorrows in one's life because those events distance one from the Lord.

b) Again, there are different parts of Vedic Astrology: One applies to a person's entire life, another to a person's day to day life and another to agriculture and still another to a Country. The general belief is that by knowing what may come (Vedic astrology is a probabilistic discipline), one may try to act in ways that would produce a different outcome. But again, such actions must be within the 'dharmic' scopes.

c) You are absolutely correct on this. As I said, people have been mis using the intent of this discipline. The slokas depicting this problem in the original texts, in my opinion are not applied properly today. This is why, I personally do not subscribe to horoscope matching, because it is being mis used.

d) Astrolgy is like medical science. While it is based on certain exact principles, the gift of the practitioner (like a gifted surgeon etc), comes in to play. There are different branches of Vedic astrology, but over time by application, only the Parshara system is nowadays held to be the most accurate. But the Jaimini system is also consulted for some certain issues to validate the Parshara system.

e) Your anecdotal experience of 10% agreement of predictions between 3 so called eminent astrologers truly astonishes me. If the astrologers are of repute, this should not and can not happen. Do you have specific examples?

f) I did not see the movie. But the life inferences are wrong. Any Vedic astrologer, worth his salt would not give the years of His influence as His years on this earth.

g) Yes, yes and yes. My belief in this discipline comes from the fact that over the last 45 years of my life, it was a hobby of mine, reading the horoscopes of my friends and family. I never took it as a profession. But, I am astounded that my predictions (which I do not share with anyone, except a few) have materialized to the tune of about 75% accuracy.

h) No one needs astrology if they are strong like you. Our forefathers discovered this discipline and have given this to us only out of compassion and love. Again, astrology speaks to the negative karma phala more than the positive.

i) As I said before, if one takes the view of abandoning one's action because of what one's horoscope indicates, then that is also a part of the horoscope and the reading will be much different. For example, if one's success in a field of exam is assured by the horoscope and the person does not work and prepare and thus fails the exam, one will go back to the horoscope to find that such a result was there all along! One can not base one's action on the probabilistic indications of the horoscope!

j) This is a very common refrain about astrology from the sceptics. One way to look at this is thus. In Physics, one can look at a position of a particle in time either by velocity and time or by momentum and velocity. They are similar, but not the same. But they both portray reality and the latter view is called the 'Phase space'. While the Nava Grahas mete out their justice to us in the Graha Phase space, what we see are the masses of physical representations of them, we call planets.

Dear Sri Hariharan,

I understand where you are coming from on astrology. I had the same outlook when I was young. But I took it up as a life long study and today I can tell you that this discipline when practiced properly produces well over the 50% predictive results. One may quarrel with it's effect on one's effort, but then there are always two sides to a coin.

With respect and affection,

Pranams,
KRS
 
Thanks for bringing this up Hari.

I believe that we indeed bring with us all of our past karmic tendencies but we can VERY MUCH do something about it.

The purpose of our lives is to OVERCOME things, so that we may learn the lesson from each experience and neutralize our feelings/desires towards it. We have to get to a 'desireless' state - which means we have to neutralize karma (positive karma brings as much of a consequence as does negative karma).

So what is astrology? In my view it is like a traffic sign - that tells you if there is a hairpin bend ahead or not. The best predictions can tell you what kinds of challenges you might expect in life.

But astrology does not calculate/or take into account what your will power can do.

By making right choices WITH sufficient prayers it is possible to change/alter certain circumstances. It is also possible to reduce the intensity of negative karma (you might get a scratch in place of a fracture). Case in point, Markandeya who prayed to Shiva when he was about to die at 16 - Shiva slayed Yama to save Markandeya.

One thing we fail to believe in our terribly busy, crazy lives is that we are LOVED so much by the Lord, astrology or no astrology. I don't mean to say that astrology doesn't have its merits; just that I don't believe God wants us to suffer any more than we want to. He is patient, waiting for us to call upon Him - just so He can come swiftly, faster than the blink of an eye, to help us.

Of course there are certain rules that one must observe in our pursuit of Him. I think all of us follow at least some part of those rules, perhaps in differing degrees. If we make a more intense effort we will get better results.

Karma is after all a law. It can be circumvented. But only by love. In my view if we accept the consequences with grace, learn our lessons and vow not to repeat the negative things we have won half the battle. The other half is won by loving the Lord with all of one's might. Just love, nothing else.

God is almighty. Great. He has everything...

...except our love.

He doesn't want to force us. He accepts it only if we give it to Him out of our own Free Will.

As long as you have Free Will your life is very much in your hands. If you manage to touch the Divine your entire life will transform.

Our ancestors were not idiots to put Divine attainment before everything else (otherwise they would have placed astrological achievement before God). Read any spiritual guru's works (I mean the god-realized ones) - read it without fear - willing to believe things that might seemingly contradict rationality. You will notice that those truths operate by a different kind of rationality - unlike the western rationality that we are used to.

Yogic practices obtained from a true guru actually help in burning up one's karma - so that is another way of dealing with 'destiny'.

If you try to change your perspective into seeing life as a romance with God - going through trials and tribulations only as a testimony of love for Him (much the same way parents put up with the offences of their children) - you will see the hand of the Divine work miracles in your life and bring you inexpressible happiness.

You are the shaper of your own destiny. If you accept that job with love you will not find the need to believe anything else.

Regards,
Chintana.

P.S. I wish to state upfront that I am no spiritual heavy weight, just someone who has been curious about these things for a very long time. Much of the above message is a reflection of PY's teachings (and other spiritual big weights too; I have been interested in this subject ever since I was a child) but what I have written is the result of my own experiments and tests of his words. The results I have obtained are very, very little (perhaps a tiny speck) but they have been enough to inspire these words.



KRS Sir / Chintana ji,

I don't know what category i fall into - i read the astrology sections of magazines with interest but i detest astrology -

Here is why :

a) KRS Sir, you have made several points in this thread but i am unable to quote them here as i am technologically challenged. However the essence of what you wrote is that there is no running away from "Karma Phala" & no force on earth can prevent the happening of what will happen. Then why astrology ?

b) If astrology helps one only to know what is in store as per his KP without any mitigating powers, then is it supposed to be used as a crash bag ! you are anyway destined to be involved in a crash, may be you could get away without hurting yourself too much....is this the purpose of astrology ?

c) Don't you think astrology has given birth to so many biases - to quote one i know of - the ubiquitous 'sevvai dosham'

d) Is Astrology an exact science ? I think not. The reason : Why there should be so many branches of Astrology ? After there is only one KP for an individual....Or is this the "multi dimensional view" of KP (afterall i am from the Business intelligence practice !)

e) Why the predictions vary with different astrologers ? Here i am not referring to the quacks....even if you were to approach say 3 eminent astrologers of the same branch, my (educated ?) guess is that there will be hardly 10% in common between them.

f) I am reminded of a scene in the movie Sri Raghavendra. Presuming this is an actual takeoff from the savant's life - 3 astrologers (different methods) estimate the life of Sri Raghavendra & come up with 3 numbers (they are no different from Economists are they ?)....78, 300, 1000 (approx)....in the final scene Sri Raghavendra reveals that 78 years was referring to his physical life, 300 years represents the number of years for his principles to be adopted & 1000 years representing the number of years the principles will stand the test of time. My question is : is this an "intelligent explanation" or does it highlight the fact that the conclusions are not right....

g) One serious doubt. Can Astrology say at the time of a child's birth give exactly the "brought forward balance" of the "Karma Phala" ? Can it also estimate the cycle of the child's birth ? Also can it provide the "Still to Go efforts" that the child needs to put in for Mukthi / Moksha ?

h) Taking of from what Chintana wrote, if the purpose of our life is to find our way to the "Bhagwan" why do we need astrology ?

i) Doesn't Astrology undermine the significance of effort in a human's life ? Sage Valluvar wrote : "Deivathal aaagadheninum muyarchi than mei varutha kooli tharum". But our man now is busy giving "kooli" to the astrologers & avoiding "muyarchi"........My grouse is if astrology was to be used as an "enabler" it has now been reduced to the level where i am afraid it is the biggest "disabler" in the path of progress

j) Is there any emphirical / scientific proof of the planets influencing life on earth ? If several decades later, humans successfully migrate to other planets (i wonder what will be the sq ft rate ?), will that mean disproving the effect theory ?

with respectful pranams,
 
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Nice post

Chintana;7557 If you try to change your perspective into seeing life as a romance with God - going through trials and tribulations only as a testimony of love for Him [/quote said:
'Romancing with God', wow, great line this.

You often refer to God-realized Gurus !

What is God-realization ? How does one realize God ? How to know a Guru who has God-realized ? How to trust if someone says i am God-realized ? What are the qualities of a God-realized Guru ?

I hope by God-realization you don't refer to the "magics" often done by the various "babas" ! I am not a rationalist, however i once saw a TV debate about such "spiritual magics" where the rationalist wondered why the babas always produced o-n-l-y sacred ash, lingams etc... That is to say only the things that are "manageable to handle".....why no baba produces a full grown "pumpkin" out of thin air !!!!!!
 
Karmic Bondage and Free will.

There is a cow, and there is a farmer.
To the cow, farmer is his god. Because the farmer can do things that the cow cannot do.
The farmer takes the cow to a field with green juicy grass and lot of shady trees, and ties him to a pole. The cow grazes freely as long as the rope allows him. The cow behaves well, there by pleasing his master, and so the master takes him to a better place. This time, the cow gets chakkarai pongal, + grass+sugarcane and all goodies.

On another occasion the cow behaves badly, so he is taken next to a gutter and tied there. Now the cow is forced to graze the dried up and smelly grass.

Basically there are three types of Karma I suppose, one is Sanchita Karma, second is Prarabdha Karma, third is what is I have forgotten.

One of the above karmas is based on what is accumulated on the previos births. So the time/place etc a person is supposed to be born is based on the accumulated karma. THe planetary positions reflect that and gives a guidance on what is in store. It is like taking the cow to a place ( nice place or near the gutter) and tying it there.

Then there is the free will component where there is enough freedom as the length of the rope itself, within which the individual does all monkey business. This Karma is like the behaviour of the cow and is accumulated in the current life. THis determines where the cow is going to get tied up next.

So whether we take the Rs50 lacs in front of our eyes and escape, or return it to the rightful owner is in our free will and what we sow, so we reap.h

I have learnt a bit of astrology and its reliance on Karmic theory is very convincing. I totally agree with KRS that it cannot be reduced to a system of basic equations as there are more exeptions than rules.

There are various books on astrology..notably the ones by Pandit Gopesh Ojha, BV Raman, and books by Prof KP which give a lot of theory. Advanced learners can take up books like Brihat Samhita or Parasara Samhita etc.

Has anyone thought about the fact that, in reality, there are no cows, no farmers, no grass, no gutter....and it was itself and created itself and manifested itself and experienced itself?
 
Dear Hari,

Maroon italics....

These are only my opinions - I am not an authority, just the person you asked.


'Romancing with God', wow, great line this.

It is directly from Paramahansa Yogananda. He has written a book called Divine Romance. A deeply, deeply rich book on developing eternal love.

You often refer to God-realized Gurus !

What is God-realization ?

Difficult question. It could mean any number of things but chieftly the ability to perceive internally that one is part of an endless infinite and to remain in that state at will.

For more please read personal experiences of the gurus in describing what they felt. I can give you recommendations through PM if you write me. Would you like to start with Autobiography of a Yogi?


How does one realize God ?

By developing a combination of love, service (in the name of God) and deep wisdom under the guidance of a proper guru.

This usually can come only by making the heart and mind gradually receptive.

Our yogic practices are fine-tuned to achieving this. Again these are to be learnt under the guidance of a proper guru.

Most of all if one begins to develop a deep, deep and even deeper longing to love God or know God He usually will send you somebody. Remember the saying, 'When the disciple is ready the guru will appear?'


How to know a Guru who has God-realized ?

Usually one has to rely on intuition. In the event of intuition not being well developed I would go by 'established' names such as those that I listed. (I do not know about Sai Baba and Sri Sri Ravishankar so I cannot comment on them). Usually their works/words will ring an echo within you or otherwise produce a deep sense of conviction. You must/will be able to see that their words/ideas are in some way irreplaceable.

Trial and error method also works. You could try the teachings of somebody and if your internal compass tells you otherwise you should resume your search.


How to trust if someone says i am God-realized ?

A truly God-realized person will never declare this unless ordained by his/her guru to do so. Unless they take up a 'mission' to do they will never reveal themselves.

They usually shy away from media, like to be left alone and have a very strong spiritual aura about them - almost perceptible. Often one knows that one is in the company of an extra ordinary person.

Also a good way to go about this is to use common sense. Is the person asking you to do things that are not good for you? Is the person able to answer questions on why things ought to be done in a certain way - in a manner that satisfies you? Is the person concerned about the welfare of others or is s/he interested just in self-promotion? Does the person seem live a lavish life style?

Answers to some of those questions should give some pointers.


What are the qualities of a God-realized Guru ?

Love.

Wisdom.

Making you believe that you can do it too.


I hope by God-realization you don't refer to the "magics" often done by the various "babas" ! I am not a rationalist, however i once saw a TV debate about such "spiritual magics" where the rationalist wondered why the babas always produced o-n-l-y sacred ash, lingams etc... That is to say only the things that are "manageable to handle".....why no baba produces a full grown "pumpkin" out of thin air !!!!!!


God realization is a state beyond magics. The 'magics' usually are only distractions. Those abilities any spiritual aspirant advanced enough can and will possess. Some of these are probably what you are witnessing. These 'magics' are the work of maya trying to distract an individual from attaining the ultimate. A true guru will never ask a person to indulge in them. Must steer wayyy clear of those things. Getting to God is not about becoming adept at magic.
 
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Dear Sri Hariharan,

Sowbhagyavathi Chintana Ji has done a much better job of succinctly answering your questions.

May I add to her answer about Gurus? A Guru will help one to realize the 'Guru' within each of us. When one prepares assiduously to start on the spiritual journey, tradition has it that a Guru suitable to one's temperement and outlook will appear and guide. One can not 'adopt' a Guru, a Guru will always choose the Sishya.

In addition to the Autobiography of a Yogi, may I strongly suggest that you read a book called 'Search in Secret India' by Paul Brunton, a sceptical British journalist who came to India in the 1930s, with the intent of exposing the Yogis, who he thought were frauds. He did find some frauds, but his other findings will inspire you. This book is available through Amazon in USA. If you can not get it from India, please let me know by mail.

Pranams,
KRS
 
A belief rather than a science

I think Astrology is a belief rather than a science. There is no proof the physical position of planets affects individual lives differently. Even when astrology was developed , all the planets in our solar system had not been discovered. I think there should be a mismatch between the rotation period of the planets and the astrological calculations.(Even God comes under the area of belief rather science because it needs to be explained properly.God itself is explained differently in different religious texts or sometimes within the same religion).

Even Karma is a non proven concept. Though I like it,because says you have to act good to get good things , in practical world it is disproved again and again.

Similarly in literatures they are giving a piece of advice , that may not be true at all times.We can also question each and every T.KUral if it is true in the real world...So all these things come under belief,may be some belong to some observations and experience , not sufficient enough to be described as a science.
 
Dear fire Ji,

Non one here claims that Astrology is 'science' as it is applied by the modern definition of science. It is at best an empirical discipline that is based on obervation, experience and some fundamental axioms spelled out by some of our Rishis.

Science can never find who the 'God' is. To start with, Science is applied to closed systems and one has to be outside such a system to understand all it's properties. Our observations and inferences can carry us only so far, because we are also part of the system. This is a well known scientific fundamental.

Your statement about Karma theory is baffling. Where 'in practical world it is disproved again and again?'. 'Non proof' does not equate to 'dis proof'. Can you tell me how it is 'dispoved again and again?'

Faith is an integral part of any religion. Logic and reasoning alone can not allow one to fathom the ultimate truth. This is the foundation on which our religion is built and if you look all around one will see the proof of it by the mere existence of God like avatars in our midst.

One is not a Hindu if one does not subscribe to the fact that Truth was revealed to our illustrious forefathers through the Srutis.

Pranams,
KRS
 
sirs- i have also heard that astrology applies only for those who have submitted themselves to the orthodox hindu way of life. putting in other words, it does not apply to non believers and non hindus and even hindus who are not orthodox. so, in a way astrology is a mixture of science and belief.
 
This is my take

Your statement about Karma theory is baffling. Where 'in practical world it is disproved again and again?'. 'Non proof' does not equate to 'dis proof'. Can you tell me how it is 'dispoved again and again?'

KRS Sir,

While waiting for fire to respond, let me add in my bit.

Today's biggest disillusionment for a believer, when he looks around, is the fact that people indulging questionable, unethical, immoral actions aren't affected one bit. Consciously i have left out "unlawful" as law is a creation of man. I am referring to actions which even without a formal legal system can be questioned on grounds of ethics & morality.

Examples of such persons are numerous but let us avoid name calling.

Philosophically it could be explained as the benefit of the karma phala that such persons brought forward from previous janma, the mind refuses to accept it.

We don't remember the previous janma nor we know what is in store in the next janma should there be one. So the normal human being wants to see the "action on the ground in this janma".

So to say, if evil begets punishment, the overall belief in the "system" will go up.

Till such time the niceties of life (here i don't just refer to wealth) and the good karma are in a staccato, disillusionment creeps in possibly leading a few weak hearted into disbelief.
 
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