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Are you a Brahmin?

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Are you a Brahmin? To What degree? 50 % or 75%?
-S.Swaminathan-
A controversial topic indeed-many a people would avoid treading this thorny path!

The reason for this write up is an angry phone call from my Iyengar friend the other day. His friend teased him saying that he was not at all a Brahmin. The reasons given were not doing Sandhya Vandhanam etc.

I can feel the anger and anxiety in his tone. Immediately I asked him where his friend was. He told me that he was working with him in his London office. Then I said that, ‘’well, your friend is not all a Brahmin in the first place because he crossed the ocean. According to Manu Smrti one who crosses the sea loses his Brahmin-hood. As soon he heard it, he was immensely happy to know that his friend lost his status at one stroke.


Many people I have personally known have justified switching to non-vegetarian diet due to the so-called absence of vegetarian options; and particularly during international travel. They have even referenced the lives of mythological characters to justify this, such as Agastiar, while conveniently forgetting their great achievements.


Such qualifications of Brahmin-hood were taken to a new level when another of my other friends asked me a question ‘’Are you a Brahmin?”; I said ‘Yes’. He asked me what percentage of Brahmin I was. I was puzzled. When I asked for explanation he clarified that if I don’t drink (15%), don’t smoke (10%), don’t womanise(20%), don’t eat meat (20%), do Sandhya Vandhanam three times (15%) and don’t covet others money/property (20%) I am 100% cent percent Brahmin.


I thought for a while, “Oh my God, most of my friends in Chennai and London are going to lose their status as Brahmins”. Poor man he was he did not know Manu’s sloka banning foreign travel for Brahmins. It was also good that he did not talk about daily Vedadyanam, Aubhasanam, Agnihotram etc. Though I agreed with him in principle I did not agree with him on his mathematical model of Brahmin-hood!


Please don’t ask me what percentage of Brahmin I am. The answer is highly confidential. Not even my wife would know! But I will whisper into your ears one thing — I am not 100% Brahmin!!



Comments welcome!

Regards,
Swami
Please visit my blogs:
http://swamiindology.blogspot.com/
<links removed> plz use the signature option to promote your websites

 
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prasad1

Well-known member
What is your definition of the word "Brahmin". If your definition is the profession of brahmin then probably 0%. If it is by the gunas, then probably 40%, and 100% by birth.

I have traveled all over the world, you can remain vegetarian and non-alcohol drinker any where on earth.
 
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Nara

Well-known member
Sometime back I observed that the narcissism of Brahmins makes them raise this question "Who is a Brahmin" at regular intervals in this web site. Here is the most recent example. This obsession is indicative of the supremacist mind-set brought about by Brahminism. Let go, good people are good, no need to give caste names for this. Brahmin has always been a birth-based varna, no more.
 

prasad1

Well-known member
I agree with Nara's comment. Birth based caste system works against Brahmins, so give it up. If it works at any place use it, ney flaunt it.
 

sangom

Well-known member
Originally posted by London Swaminathan

Such qualifications of Brahmin-hood were taken to a new level when another of my other friends asked me a question ‘’Are you a Brahmin?”; I said ‘Yes’. He asked me what percentage of Brahmin I was. I was puzzled. When I asked for explanation he clarified that if I don’t drink (15%), don’t smoke (10%), don’t womanise(20%), don’t eat meat (20%), do Sandhya Vandhanam three times (15%) and don’t covet others money/property (20%) I am 100% cent percent Brahmin.

The person who assigned the marks as above, has obviously his own image of a true and complete brahmin—teatotaller, non-smoker, celibate and non-womanizer, vegetarian, performs Sandhyaavandanam 3 times daily and not coveting other's money/property. This "sample" has no relevance to the concept of brahmin contained in our revered scriptures.


87. But in order to protect this universe He, the most resplendent one, assigned separate (duties and) occupations to those who sprang from his mouth, arms, thighs, and feet.
88. To Brahmanas he assigned teaching and studying (the Veda), sacrificing for their own benefit and for others, giving and accepting (of alms).
93. As the Brahmana sprang from (Brahman's) mouth, as he was the first-born, and as he possesses the Veda, he is by right the lord of this whole creation.
96. Of created beings the most excellent are said to be those which are animated; of the animated, those which subsist by intelligence; of the intelligent, mankind; and of men, the Brahmanas;
97. Of Brahmanas, those learned (in the Veda); of the learned, those who recognise (the necessity and the manner of performing the prescribed duties); of those who possess this knowledge, those who perform them; of the performers, those who know the Brahman.
98. The very birth of a Brahmana is an eternal incarnation of the sacred law; for he is born to (fulfil) the sacred law, and becomes one with Brahman.
99. A Brahmana, coming into existence, is born as the highest on earth, the lord of all created beings, for the protection of the treasury of the law.
100. Whatever exists in the world is, the property of the Brahmana; on account of the excellence of his origin The Brahmana is, indeed, entitled to all.
101. The Brahmana eats but his own food, wears but his own apparel, bestows but his own in alms; other mortals subsist through the benevolence of the Brahmana.
102. In order to clearly settle his duties those of the other (castes) according to their order, wise Manu sprung from the Self-existent, composed these Institutes (of the sacred Law).
103. A learned Brahmana must carefully study them, and he must duly instruct his pupils in them, but nobody else (shall do it).
104. A Brahmana who studies these Institutes (and) faithfully fulfils the duties (prescribed therein), is never tainted by sins, arising from thoughts, words, or deeds.
105. He sanctifies any company (which he may enter), seven ancestors and seven descendants, and he alone deserves (to possess) this whole earth.
31. Let (the first part of) a Brahmana's name (denote something) auspicious, a Kshatriya's be connected with power, and a Vaisya's with wealth, but a Sudra's (express something) contemptible.
32. (The second part of) a Brahmana's (name) shall be (a word) implying happiness, of a Kshatriya's (a word) implying protection, of a Vaisya's (a term) expressive of thriving, and of a Sudra's (an expression) denoting service.
33. The names of women should be easy to pronounce, not imply anything dreadful, possess a plain meaning, be pleasing and auspicious, end in long vowels, and contain a word of benediction.
155. The seniority of Brahmanas is from (sacred) knowledge, that of Kshatriyas from valour, that of Vaisyas from wealth in grain (and other goods), but that of Sudras alone from age.
156. A man is not therefore (considered) venerable because his head is gray; him who, though young, has learned the Veda, the gods consider to be venerable.
157. As an elephant made of wood, as an antelope made of leather, such is an unlearned Brahmana; those three have nothing but the names (of their kind).
158. As a eunuch is unproductive with women, as a cow with a cow is unprolific, and as a gift made to an ignorant man yields no reward, even so is a Brahmana useless, who (does) not (know) the Rikas.
162. A Brahmana should always fear homage as if it were poison; and constantly desire (to suffer) scorn as (he would long for) nectar.
168. A twice-born man who, not having studied the Veda, applies himself to other (and worldly study), soon falls, even while living, to the condition of a Sudra and his descendants (after him).

The above are just a few of the requirements of a Brahmin as decreed in Manu Dharma Sastra, but there are many more. But the last one (#168) will imo, disqualify almost all the living persons (and their forefathers too) from being eligible for brahmin status.

But if we make a set of our own qualificatory conditions, then the brahmins who become so eligible, will not be True brahmins according to the Hindu scriptures. For example if we take many matrimonial ads of today boys in US/Europe, earning more than certain limit, fair, tall, etc., are considered brahmins.






 

prasad1

Well-known member
What is that you are trying to prove, and who are you trying to impress?
You are phony if you are trying to prove what you are not.
You are who you are, by the deeds that others see. Deep within yourself you know who you are.

If you have the knowledge "aham Bhrahmasmi", you do not have to prove it to anyone.
 

sangom

Well-known member
"aham Bhrahmasmi" अहम् भ्रह्मस्मि in sanskrit, will have ocean of difference from "aham brahmaasmi"; in truth, the former is devoid of any meaning.

ब्रह्मैवाहमस्मि brahmaivāhamasmi is the more commonly used "mahaavaakya".

And our scriptures right down to our member tks say that it ("aham brahmaasmi") can only be experienced but not "known".

"You are who you are, by the deeds that others see. Deep within yourself you know who you are."
This seems to mean, at least to me, that others will be capable of judging what one knows deep within his self. Does this mean that humans have the capacity to read the minds of others?
 

C RAVI

Well-known member
"You are who you are, by the deeds that others see. Deep within yourself you know who you are."
This seems to mean, at least to me, that others will be capable of judging what one knows deep within his self. Does this mean that humans have the capacity to read the minds of others?

No need to read the others mind. It is just that you could see the other with his/her speech and deed.

But deep within onself one knows who one is with one's consciousness.

To see oneself within perfectly, certainly self experiences are required to see where one stand within, with his/her all thoughts, actions and reactions.
 

sarang

Well-known member
1. Manusmrithi has become the gospel only for nonbrahmins and brahmin bashers. When was it operational? never.
2. Though there are countless theories and arguments whether varna classification is based on birth or by innate qualities, the prevailing practice is 'by birth only' not only in tamilnadu or all over bharath. I have no problem in accepting who wants to migrate into brahmin varna; only the modalities have to be worked out and acceptance earned.
3. All satvik religious and secular 'ethics' literature like tirukkural talk about the virtues of vegetarian food and abstinence from meat and drinks. Even staunch non-vegetarians gradually stop eating meat when they turn more spiritual and religious.
4. Brahmins from bengal, coastal areas eat fish and kashmiri brahmins eat meat. There was a strong vegetarian culture in tamilnadu spread by buddhists and jains. Tamil brahmins are mostly vegetarian; so are some chettiars, pillais and naidus.

Ignore howlers like - crossing the sea, not knowing vedas etc. strip you of brahminhood. Intention and a vow to learn and practice more is more than what can be expected today. And believe me, wearing your brahminhood proudly in any part of india does invite respect and praise.

Tambrahms must not fall for such cheap verbal assaults and insinuations. For every bad practice, hundred good practices are prescribed. Follow them to the best of your ability; ignore the rattlers.
 

prasad1

Well-known member
Ref post #7.
People are going to judge you, we all do it every day. Sometimes I cross street to avoid some situations, and it is according to my judgement.

Do I change my action to suit others (sometime), I surely do. But at my experience level do I think I am going to please everyone, absolutely NOT. So I live my life according to my values. I try not to hurt the feelings of people I admire.
 

sangom

Well-known member
1. Manusmrithi has become the gospel only for nonbrahmins and brahmin bashers.

Shri Sarang,

Since you come out as a practising brahmana, I may tell you that in the "abhivaadaye" which you are required to say, you are required to announce the sootra which you follow, aapastamba, baudhaayana, aasvalaayana, haareeta, etc. All these sootras are based on smritis of the same name and are indebted to manusmriti, or vice versa, while some are worse (from the point of view of brahmin bashers;)) than manu even. Hence your statement :"When was it operational? never." comes out of ignorance, I presume.
 
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sarang

Well-known member
It is generally believed that smrithis are codes or laws to be followed in general and are expected to be questioned and selectively followed. They are time, location and condition dependent. They are to be interpreted by the acharyas, gurus and kings to suit the condition of the day. If all the rules are applied without exception, there will be no brahmin left (some not acceptable and many are not practicable in different eras). Some acharyas still walk for ksetradanas, but many have taken up fast transports and even go abroad. Many priests are serving in temples all over the world. That should make it clear that manusmrithi was never the 100% operational law book in any time in history. Only in tamil films the king will ask the assembly - "manu neethi enna sollukirathu". Its utility stops there.

So, brahmins of three generations, why brahmins and other varna citizens of the past millennium, have not practised manu smrithi in toto. If brahmins retain their unique position in hindu society, it is because of the respect they earned from others.

Of course, many brahmins are practising their nitya/naimithika karmas without bothering about manu. In fact everybody's knowledge of manusmrithi is from english translations from western indologists, who often confuse brahmam and brhamana. Nobody has the time or intention to study any authentic indian vyakyanams in samskrit. Not required, unless to take part in hot, spirited discussions.

So, throwing manu slokas in the air is not going to affect today's practising brahmins, who are proud of their tradition, culture and contributions to society. In fact, there are many non brahmins who have accepted the role of brahmins in all professions including religion/rituals and extend support.

Brahminical tradition will survive as it is accepted by many. Brahmins have survived the onslaught of buddhists, jains, and abrahamic cults and 'thadam puranda' brahmins'.
 

prasad1

Well-known member
My problem is the selective use of "traditions". Who ever decides what is convenient to them, or they think they know will lay down the rule, others are supposed to abide by them. It is totally arbitrary, and imposition on others. To keep the peace we go along with utter nonsense. I wish each greater family write down their version of tradition and if you accept it follow it. I hate last minute changes because a non existing "tradition" has to be followed. It is even more frustrating when you have to guess the tradition for that occasion right at the time of the function. No two sastrigal from two different family, region or padhati can accept a norm.

I find it a surprising (pleasantly) that people other than Tamil Brahmins are in this site. I would not visit a Pakistan muslim site.
 

Nara

Well-known member
......Many priests are serving in temples all over the world. That should make it clear that manusmrithi was never the 100% operational law book in any time in history. Only in tamil films the king will ask the assembly - "manu neethi enna sollukirathu". Its utility stops there. .
You are so right sarang, and that is why the whole thing is so sad.

There is not a single Brahmin who refers to Manu or other equally and in some case more vile Dharmashashthras in their daily life, yet they find a pride of place in their culture as defined and expressed by the acharyas they revere.

The most prominent public face of brahmins in Tamil Nadu is the Kanchi Kamakoti Matam. Go to their web site and they glowingly speak of Manu, varna, and what a wonderful system it is. According to them, all that ails the society is due to abandoning this glorious system.

This is what the rest of the society sees, a Brahmin supremacist text touted as divinely inspired perfect prescription for a just scoiety. What good has this done to the ordinary poor Brahmin trying to eek out a meager living -- none who frequent this web site?

Zilch!

Yet they are the ones who pay the price, carry the burden, so that the orthodoxy and their middle-class and well-to-do financiers can feel good about how great a system their ancestors had devised, and if only everyone will adopt those ways what a Shangri La we all will be living in.

As you rightly observe, these dharmashasthras are a long forgotten text, worth not the paper they are printed on. So, the best thing the most revered leaders of Brahmins can do for the benefit of Brahmins is to reject them as unsuitable for Kali Yuga. If they can drum up the courage to do this it will send shock waves through the entire society. Yes it will, because, as you rightly observe, even with all this, many devout Hindus still respect these Brahmin leaders. This is why a bold pronouncement from Sankarachariyars will have a seismic impact.

But I know it will not happen. It is the secular Brahmins who find the courage to shed their Brahmin identity who will have to lead the way. IMO, those who do this are the best friends of ordinary poor Brahmins and those who oppose are their worst enemies.

Cheers!
 

prasad1

Well-known member
You are so right sarang, and that is why the whole thing is so sad.

There is not a single Brahmin who refers to Manu or other equally and in some case more vile Dharmashashthras in their daily life, yet they find a pride of place in their culture as defined and expressed by the acharyas they revere.

The most prominent public face of brahmins in Tamil Nadu is the Kanchi Kamakoti Matam. Go to their web site and they glowingly speak of Manu, varna, and what a wonderful system it is. According to them, all that ails the society is due to abandoning this glorious system.

This is what the rest of the society sees, a Brahmin supremacist text touted as divinely inspired perfect prescription for a just scoiety. What good has this done to the ordinary poor Brahmin trying to eek out a meager living -- none who frequent this web site?

Zilch!

Yet they are the ones who pay the price, carry the burden, so that the orthodoxy and their middle-class and well-to-do financiers can feel good about how great a system their ancestors had devised, and if only everyone will adopt those ways what a Shangri La we all will be living in.

As you rightly observe, these dharmashasthras are a long forgotten text, worth not the paper they are printed on. So, the best thing the most revered leaders of Brahmins can do for the benefit of Brahmins is to reject them as unsuitable for Kali Yuga. If they can drum up the courage to do this it will send shock waves through the entire society. Yes it will, because, as you rightly observe, even with all this, many devout Hindus still respect these Brahmin leaders. This is why a bold pronouncement from Sankarachariyars will have a seismic impact.

But I know it will not happen. It is the secular Brahmins who find the courage to shed their Brahmin identity who will have to lead the way. IMO, those who do this are the best friends of ordinary poor Brahmins and those who oppose are their worst enemies.

Cheers!

Among majority of the liberated Brahmins this will ring true. I feel that those who are stuck in deep south and have never ventured out it is different matter.
 

tbs

Well-known member
hi sarang,

Brahminical tradition will survive as it is accepted by many. Brahmins have survived the onslaught of buddhists, jains, and abrahamic cults and 'thadam puranda' brahmins'.

i like the word THADA PURANDA BRAHMINS........can u elaborate plz.......i know some atheists. neo brahmins.brahmin bashers etc...

SO CALLED WHO ARE THESE' THADAM PURANDA BRAHMINS:

thanks in advance

regards
tbs
 

sangom

Well-known member
It is generally believed that smrithis are codes or laws to be followed in general and are expected to be questioned and selectively followed. They are time, location and condition dependent. They are to be interpreted by the acharyas, gurus and kings to suit the condition of the day.

AFAIK, none of the smritis, including Manu's, allow any of these - "to be questioned and selectively followed. They are time, location and condition dependent. They are to be interpreted by the acharyas, gurus and kings to suit the condition of the day." That is the general tone of smritis as far as I have seen. There have been commentaries and the one that is now available and looked upon as some sort of authority, equal to the smritis by orthodox brahmins and the mathams is Sruthimuktaa phalam or Vaidyanatha Deekshitheeyam by Sri Vaidyanatha Dikshitar. This again does not use any discretion to interpret the smritis on a time, location and condition dependent manner. And, as Shri Nara has said, even the Kanchi Periyavar does not envisage any such interpretation. He laments over the loss of the brahmin way of life as envisaged in the sruti.

If all the rules are applied without exception, there will be no brahmin left (some not acceptable and many are not practicable in different eras). Some acharyas still walk for ksetradanas, but many have taken up fast transports and even go abroad. Many priests are serving in temples all over the world. That should make it clear that manusmrithi was never the 100% operational law book in any time in history. Only in tamil films the king will ask the assembly - "manu neethi enna sollukirathu". Its utility stops there.
Since Hindu religion has no authority like the Papacy to enforce its tenets and to ostracize and punish, etc., here we have the freedom to live anyway we want and still claim that "I am a true brahmin and whatever I do is great and unavoidable, and what I have avoided are unnecessary, etc." This is the state of affairs which our elders used to describe as தடியெடுத்தவனெல்லாம் தண்டக்காரன் (taṭiyeṭuttavaṉellām taṇṭakkāraṉ) (approximate meaning - whoever takes a lathi is a policeman). We are in a position to be the authorities, each one of us tabras, to prescribe what constitutes a perfect tabra, but this will not work in other castes where the people collectively check anyone not falling in line and mend him or her back to track and to the flock. Tabras are so highly individualistic and egoistic also, that even the heads of our mathams have no authority or enforcement ability and that is why they also lament helplessly.

It is right that "If all the rules are applied without exception, there will be no brahmin left". But to follow whatever suits each individual and then to claim that "Brahminical tradition will survive as it is accepted by many." is fallacious because what is brahminical tradition to one need not be so for another; the only common factor is the "cross-belt" as of today but I have seen many tabras not wearing it also but will take one from the vaadhyaar on tarpanam, sraaddham days just before the beginning of the rites.

So, brahmins of three generations, why brahmins and other varna citizens of the past millennium, have not practised manu smrithi in toto. If brahmins retain their unique position in hindu society, it is because of the respect they earned from others.

I cannot say whether "brahmins of three generations, why brahmins and other varna citizens of the past millennium, have not practised manu smrithi in toto." But thebelief that "If brahmins retain their unique position in hindu society, it is because of the respect they earned from others." is hilarious especially in the light of so many posts here describing how tabras are treated badly in TN and even now there is a thread styled "Can Tamil Brahmins be bold to disclose their identity in public?".

Of course, many brahmins are practising their nitya/naimithika karmas without bothering about manu. In fact everybody's knowledge of manusmrithi is from english translations from western indologists, who often confuse brahmam and brhamana. Nobody has the time or intention to study any authentic indian vyakyanams in samskrit. Not required, unless to take part in hot, spirited discussions.

So, throwing manu slokas in the air is not going to affect today's practising brahmins, who are proud of their tradition, culture and contributions to society. In fact, there are many non brahmins who have accepted the role of brahmins in all professions including religion/rituals and extend support.

Brahminical tradition will survive as it is accepted by many. Brahmins have survived the onslaught of buddhists, jains, and abrahamic cults and 'thadam puranda' brahmins'.

Sarang, you are right in saying that "throwing manu slokas in the air is not going to affect today's practising brahmins" but the point to note is that these 'practising brahmins' of today are not brahmins as per Manu, yajnavalkya, aapastamba nor even tabras of a few generations ago. This is exactly what Shri Kunjuppu goes on reiterating by saying that perhaps even our greatgrandfathers, if they happen to come today and see our 'practising brahmin lifestyle' may not take meals in our house because everything will be non-brahminic for him ;)

The people who claim themselves to be "practising brahmins' upholding 'brahminical tradition bring to my mind children trying to "catch" the fumes from the agarbathis; the kids think they have got the fume in their clasp but it has already escaped!

All the remarks about english translations, western indologists, confusing brahmam and brhamana, etc., are non-sequitur.
 

sangom

Well-known member
hi sarang,

Brahminical tradition will survive as it is accepted by many. Brahmins have survived the onslaught of buddhists, jains, and abrahamic cults and 'thadam puranda' brahmins'.

i like the word THADA PURANDA BRAHMINS........can u elaborate plz.......i know some atheists. neo brahmins.brahmin bashers etc...

SO CALLED WHO ARE THESE' THADAM PURANDA BRAHMINS:

thanks in advance

regards
tbs

Shri tbs,

This looks like an impossibility to me because Shri sarang does not recognize any "taDam" i.e., any Dharma sastras to be followed meticulously. Hence according to his view "the way he moves is the path or taDam". And this will apply to every one, is it not? Then where is the 'taDam puraNDa'? an oxymoron?!
 

sarang

Well-known member
Sorry, it is thadam puranda brahmins,

Thadam is the groove made by carts on roads by going over the same tracks. Easier for the carts to move. The 'thadams' or tracks followed by brahmins is now wide enough to span the entire road (the permitted half of the road, before someone accuses of lane discipline). Those who follow the different schools of brahminism are happy with the travel with high, medium or low degrees of adherence. Those who do not like this road are free to take a diversion and follow a different road. They have found new paths, gurus and values and are free to travel in the new 'thadam'. Only the thadam puranda brahmins are indulging in brahmin hate and brahmin bashing because, perhaps, the route they have chosen has not given them a positive aim, direction and the mindset to let others live their own way.

hi sarang,

Brahminical tradition will survive as it is accepted by many. Brahmins have survived the onslaught of buddhists, jains, and abrahamic cults and 'thadam puranda' brahmins'.

i like the word THADA PURANDA BRAHMINS........can u elaborate plz.......i know some atheists. neo brahmins.brahmin bashers etc...

SO CALLED WHO ARE THESE' THADAM PURANDA BRAHMINS:

thanks in advance

regards
tbs
 

sangom

Well-known member
Sorry, it is thadam puranda brahmins,

Thadam is the groove made by carts on roads by going over the same tracks. Easier for the carts to move. The 'thadams' or tracks followed by brahmins is now wide enough to span the entire road (the permitted half of the road, before someone accuses of lane discipline). Those who follow the different schools of brahminism are happy with the travel with high, medium or low degrees of adherence. Those who do not like this road are free to take a diversion and follow a different road. They have found new paths, gurus and values and are free to travel in the new 'thadam'. Only the thadam puranda brahmins are indulging in brahmin hate and brahmin bashing because, perhaps, the route they have chosen has not given them a positive aim, direction and the mindset to let others live their own way.

The Tamizh word 'tadam' means also —
, n. < taṭa. 1. Bank, shore; கரை. (சூடா.) 2. Tank, bathing-ghat; நீர்நீலை. (பிங்.) 3. cf. தடவு². Sacrificial pit; ஓமகுண்டம். (W.) 4. Ridge,
12. Doorway, gate; மனைவாயில். (பிங்.) 13. Foot- step, track; சுவடு. வழித்தடந் தப்பி (காஞ்சிப்பு. பன்னிரு. 374).

(Tamil Lexicon)

This word also means the path by which to go, like the railways. In that sense a thadam puranda brahmin will simply mean a brahmin who takes to a new rut as aginst the time-worn one. The practising brahmins as per sarang will mostly belong to this TPB category, imo, because they tread a path widely off the mark made by their forefathers.
 

Govinda

New member
Sarang, you are right in saying that "throwing manu slokas in the air is not going to affect today's practising brahmins" but the point to note is that these 'practising brahmins' of today are not brahmins as per Manu, yajnavalkya, aapastamba nor even tabras of a few generations ago. This is exactly what Shri Kunjuppu goes on reiterating by saying that perhaps even our greatgrandfathers, if they happen to come today and see our 'practising brahmin lifestyle' may not take meals in our house because everything will be non-brahminic for him ;)

Very true. We dony deny this. So, are you suggesting that we give up totally any attempt to practice atleast the simple steps of humility (nitya karmAs) to salute the divine, if we cannot live by the vedic way?

Noone proclaims we are great Brahmins like those Vashista, Kashyapa, Parasara etc., but we are here to remind ourselves that we have forgotten such self-realization, and atleast make an attempt to slowly adhere. If you don't even do simple nitya-karmAs, what are you possessing to claim your Vedic belief? Else, it is like saying, if you have a stomach ache, you should starve, rather than consume small amounts of liquids and get better and progress.
 
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kunjuppu

Well-known member
i understood 'thadam puranda' to be deragatory. wayward. derailed.

like the train, that slipped from the tracks (thadam). i think, folks like me are wayward, and sort of meant to be vagabonds :) brahmins. i am in good company though :)
 

sangom

Well-known member
Very true. We dony deny this. So, are you suggesting that we give up totally any attempt to practice atleast the simple steps of humility (nitya karmAs) to salute the divine, if we cannot live by the vedic way?

Noone proclaims we are great Brahmins like those Vashista, Kashyapa, Parasara etc., but we are here to remind ourselves that we have forgotten such self-realization, and atleast make an attempt to slowly adhere. If you don't even do simple nitya-karmAs, what are you possessing to claim your Vedic belief? Else, it is like saying, if you have a stomach ache, you should starve, rather than consume small amounts of liquids and get better and progress.

Shri Govinda,

My (I do not speak here for others in the BB group) view is that it is quite OK for all of you to do your nityakarmas in whatever manner you want, but what is jarring is the notion which is routinely exhibited in so many posts that what your group says is the final word on brahmins and any criticism, comments, suggestions, etc., are not only unnecessary and unwelcome but are outright BB. I believe such a mindset arises not from any sense of humility arising from the simple steps of humility (nitya karmAs) to salute the divine, but from a sense of (misguided) superiority from the feeling that your group is the legal inheritors of whatever Vashista, Kashyapa, Parasara etc., have left behind (including amorous instincts during boat rides? ;)).



If you don't even do simple nitya-karmAs, what are you possessing to claim your Vedic belief? Else, it is like saying, if you have a stomach ache, you should starve, rather than consume small amounts of liquids and get better and progress.

Is it necessary to have vedic belief (I think grammatically this will mean 'belief as in the vedas') to claim anything whatsoever? Did we not have many individuals even in the ancient days who derided and questioned the vedas - like kautsa who said the vedas have no meaning, and Charvaata? And, where in the vedas or elsewhere, is it stated that the performance of the few rituals done by you is sufficient to claim "vedic belief", whatever you may mean by that?
 
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