Are we losing the power of hindu value system?

[r_lakshminarasimhan]

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Dear Fellow Forum Members,
I am new to this forum.I wish to have a thread on this topic (not sure if it was covered b4)
I beleive the modern day life is taking all the time & we just keep aside every aspect of our value based culture & move in search of worldly pleasures in every aspect.I am concerned to a greater extent on the way we keep ignoring everything that happens around us ,say the media's false projection of a community,insults to a particular section in a open or subtle way imitating the slang ,words or showcasing their way of life wrongly etc.,.Though i respect every other beleif system in our country & state, it is horrifying to know the backround of all the events when we coin that..say for e.g - to the extreme of people getting converted to other belief systems.
How can people just move to the other beleif system for monetory gains,job prospects,personal problems etc., is the question in me...& the deep thought gave me few answers..
1.Our system is too good focusing on traditional rituals not directly revealing the secret behind it which is not appreciatable by an ordinary person.
2.Our system is tough to practice by all.
3.People decide on their own.When eating onion & garlic is a not acceptable..few people need atleast egg on the days of tharpanam.
3.Lot of misconceptions amoung the beleivers.
4.growing feel of ancestorial system that doesn't appear fanciful in modern day society.
5.a question of losing self respect/lower treatment in society even if we display our Vibhuthi or Namam. or now a days even the poonal..
6.Highly demanding vadiyars & archakars..they are in a faster race than the modern generation to make money.
7.bribe in all places in temples..Biased tretment for god dharshan aswell for wealthy & VIP's..
8.Our own system followers/guru's are commiting crimes like one in Kanchi & in Bangalore..(though the real truth is unknown)

Not to blame others..it is we ourselves given enough room to this society & became vulnerable.

Only best way is to stand by the priciples thought by right elders
Never feel bad on following our practices.
Do rituals with understanding.
Trust our own values & god rather falling prey to mass prayers during weekends.
Finally, understand the history & try to appreciate yourself before spreading rumours of our value based system...

I am writing this so that the awareness exists & it spreads in all right spirit to several thousand people who inturn can protect our value based system.

Hope i get some +ve response from you all...

Thanks.

 

[T.S.Sankara Narayanan]

இந்து மத கோட்பாடுகள் அனைத்துமே நம் பெரியோர்களால் அலசி ஆராயப்பட்டு தேர்ந்தெடுக்கப்பட்டு நடைமுறைக்கு கொண்டுவரப்பட்டவை.

சைவ (வெஜ்) முறையில் அனைத்து கோவில்களும் பின்பற்றப்பட்டுவரும் அதே வேளையில் கிடா வெட்டுவது, கோழி வெட்டுவது போன்ற (நான் வெஜ்) முறையும் பல கோவில்களில் பின்பற்றப்பட்டு வருகின்றன. இது நம் மதத்தில் உள்ள சுதந்திரத்தைக் காட்டுகிறது.

நெற்றியில் வீபுதி அல்லது திருமண் இட்டுக்கொள்வது ஆங்கிலத்தில் சொல்வார்களே " பேஸ் ரீடிங்க் " அதிலிருந்து தற்காத்துக்கொள்ள பின்பற்றப்பட்டுவரும் நடவடிக்கையாக இருக்கும் என்று ஆங்கில வல்லுனர்களே கூறுகின்றனர்.
மேலும் நெற்றி வியர்வையை உறிஞ்சிவிடும் என்பதும் உண்மையாக இருக்கலாம்.

முறண்பாடுகள் அனைத்து மதத்திலும் உண்டு. 8ம் நூற்றாண்டில் மார்டின் லூதர்கிங்க் கிறிஸ்தவ மதத்தில் புரட்சியைத் தோற்றுவித்தார். கிறிஸ்தவ மதம் இரண்டாகி புராஸ்டட்டண்டுகள் தோன்றினர். அதன்பின் 7த் டே, பெந்தேகோஸ்த் என்று கிறிஸ்தவ மதம் பல பிரிவுகளானது. இன்று வரை கிறிஸ்தவ மதத்திலிருந்து பிரிந்த அனைத்து பிரிவுகளும் உடைந்த கண்ணாடிபோல் தனித் தனியாகவே இயங்கி வருகின்றது.

ஆனால் சைவமும் வைணவமும் அந்தக்காலத்தில் பிரிந்தாலும் என்றோ இணைந்துவிட்டது. இன்று சைவத்தையோ, வைணவத்தயோ இந்து மதத்திலிருந்து எவராலும் பிரிக்கமுடியாது. அது இந்து மததிற்கே உரிய தனி சிறப்பு.

ஷியா , சன்னி,லெப்பை,பட்டாணி,ராவுத்தர் என்று இஸ்லாத்தில் எத்தனை பிரிவு. ஒருவருக்கொருவர் ஒற்றுமையாக வேண்டுமானால் இருக்கலாம் . ஆனால் அவர்களுக்குள் பெண் கொடுத்து வாங்குவது கிடையாது. ஷியாவைக்கண்டால் சன்னிக்குப் பிடிக்காது.சன்னி முஸ்லிமைக்கண்டால் ஷியாவிற்க்குப் பிடிக்காது. டாம் & ஜெர்ரி போல் இன்றும் இருக்கின்றனர்.

மூடநம்பிக்கை எந்த மதத்தில்தான் இல்லை ? உலகம் அழியப்போகின்றது என்றும் அதற்க்குள் கர்த்தரிடம் அடைக்கலமாகவேண்டும் என்று சுமார் 500க்கும் மேற்பட்ட அப்பாவி கிறிஸ்தவர்கள் மலைமீதிருந்து குதித்து தங்களது இன்னுயிரை மாய்த்துக்கொள்ளவில்லையா?

போலி மடாதிபதிகளும் போலிச்சன்யாசிகளும் எங்குதான் இல்லை? .திருச்சி பாதிரியார் கற்பழித்துவிட்டார் என்று கன்னியாஸ்திரி திருச்சி காவல் நிலையத்தில் புகார் அளித்து இன்றும் வழக்கு விசாரணையில் உள்ளது.

மததின்மேல் நம்பிக்கை என்பது அதற்க்கும் மேலானது.

இந்து மதத்தின் மேல் ஒரே ஒரு மனக்குறை... அது தான் ஜாதி...அது மட்டும் ஒழிக்கப்பட்டால் நாத்திகனுக்கு இங்கு வேலை இல்லை. அதை வைத்துத்தான் இங்கு அரசியல்வாதி குளிர் காய்ந்து வருகின்றான்...

 

[prasad1]

Mr. Laksminarasimhan ji,
I like the post in general, but I am not sure what is that you want us to do.
I agree with your comments, what is it that we must do?
Values are a moving target, they change from time to time and place to place.
Can you define the values you are alluding to. Can these values be universal? Remember we live in multi-cultural, multi-religious, multi-caste society (including this site).

Welcome to the site.

 

[renuka]

Frankly speaking are we preserving culture or Sanathana Dharma or both?
Sometimes lifestyle of a community is often confused as being part of Sanathana Dharma.

Ok lets compare a Balinese Hindu and a Hindu from India.

Lifestyle and culture differs like Aharnisham(day and night) but nevertheless both are Hindus.

If we really go through history we would find that our ancients had no problems adapting to new food or culture or lifestyle.
Take a TB from TN and a TB(Pattar) from Kerala..both are TB's isn't it?

But food and culture of a Pattar might be more Keralite when compared to a TB from TN.

Some communities have settled in other states and also amalgamated with the local culture and language too.

That goes to show that change in mind set is inevitable..it's like the cycle of evolution and the survival of the fittest is the one who adapts to the environment.

I am not saying that we should discard our believes,culture and lifestyle but be practical thats all..

I feel do what makes us happy as long it doesn't make us land in jail.

Most important we should not JUDGE anyone else who does not seem to fall into the NORM category.

 

[renuka]

One more thing I would like to add is we Hindus should discard the thinking of "don't ask any questions and just follow what has been laid down" when we are dealing with children.

I was once reading to my son a paragraph from the Ramayan where Dasharatha was being praised as a virtuous person and then I came to the line where he had incurred a curse for mistaking the sound of a pitcher filling up water to be an elephant drinking water where he ended up killing a man.

My son asked me "Amma you just said Dasharatha was a virtuous person..what was he doing hunting and killing animals in the forest?" Isn't that being heartless?"

So I had to explain to him that it was accepted then for a King to be hunting but nowdays we have laws that forbid hunting of wild animals and also frankly speaking I would also find hunting to be an heartless act.
So if Dasharatha was born today he would have been caught for poaching wild animals.

Our explanation has to be move with the times and a logical explanation should be given to kids and those who want to know.

If we do not know admit we do not know and try reading up and searching for the answer or asked a learned person.

We Hindus are losing out cos of our attitude that "do not ask too many questions" and we are NOT USER/CUSTOMER FRIENDLY in our approach.

I see the Church is very very user and customer friendly and they go down to the grass root level to preach.
When they preach they do not judge the individual till they snare him.
They have got tactics to sweet talk people into conversion.

So be a bit more CUSTOMER FRIENDLY in approach.

To elders who have knowledge..just don't sit and whine that culture and religion is on the decline.
Do something about it..conduct religious classes for children in your free time.

Even if turn out is poor it does not matter..even one sincere dedicated student can make a change in the world.

Here I would like to highlight that my father makes it a point to take religious classes for children on weekends and is quite in demand these days and he covers more than 2 places for his Bal Vikas classes.

He has also come out with his second book on Sathya Sai and Shiridi Sai Baba and the book is on sale in India can be purchased at Puttaparthi.
All money from sales goes to charity.


If this is possible in a country like Malaysia and by a Malaysian citizen I am sure the more learned elders in India can do a fantastic job.

 

[vgane]

Recently I was in Idukki district of Kerala...It is mini tamil nadu...My taxi driver was a Tamil Hindu...In the picturesque roads with vistas of sylvan charm among the tea estates there were many road side temples and a equal number of churches but more prominently placed on the road sides...The driver while driving did not forget to worship the innumerable temples & churches..

Next day it was a Malayali Christian driver in the cab...He also prayed but only on the sight of a church...As a curious person I asked him "Don't you worship temples"...He replied point blank "It is only the Tamil Hindus who worship both, but we Christians worship only the Church"...

I have highlighted this incident to highlight the perils of Secularism being advocated only for Hindus.

Despite we talking about Kerala being the most educated society the Church penetration in all aspects of life be it social, cultural or political has grown in leaps and bounds..It is very strong...

Unfortunately the Hindus are made to forget the religion while other religions have become more dominating & more evangelizing...The talk of Secularism is only for the Hindus & not for the rest..This is the present day dichotomy in India...I saw Renuka using the term Ilichavayan...The Hindus feel other religions are more powerful...That sums up the status of our current Hindu society.

 

[Govinda]

Unfortunately the Hindus are made to forget the religion while other religions have become more dominating & more evangelizing...The talk of Secularism is only for the Hindus & not for the rest..This is the present day dichotomy in India...I saw Renuka using the term Ilichavayan...The Hindus feel other religions are more powerful...That sums up the status of our current Hindu society.

We shouldn't blame other faiths/religions for our own confused ideologies.

It is the same Renuka or any iyer/Advaitin, would say God can take any form, incl of Allah and Jesus. Now, when the christian or Muslim, considers our gods' worship as idol-worship, why do you blame him for our mis-understanding on secularism or call ourselves as 'IllichavAyan'?

Start understanding our scriptures/philosophy clearly, and stop considering every guru/devotee as a God. You don't have to blame the other religions for your own humble-like hypocrisy. Accept that we hindus pray to Gods based on Fear or Personal-benefits or plain-ignorance of our scriptures/Philosophy, whereas other faiths have a better understanding on the Supremacy of their 'Only God'. Plus, We hindus are naive to relate/equate the nature of our Gods and others.

P.S:

Regd, the Poll and the OP,

We may be losing the Hindu values, but how does that matter, unless We clearly understood what was meant/expected from us, in our ShAstras. Our Hindu ShAstras, though vehemently/loudly promotes dharmA, it is totally for individual realization. Thus, Hindu Scriptures and their messages are immortal and will be revived time and again by some great acharyas for the redemption of those few good souls. Thus, not following hindu culture or following hindu rituals, will have no impact on the 'ApaurushEyam' of Truth behind Vedas and Reality.

Coming to the Poll, it should be phrased as
'Are we losing our Hindu value System and Its Understanding?'. Answer, may be 'Yes'. For some-people, 'No', as we can perform only within the current societal/environmental system (Kali Yuga set-up), as Renuka pointed out.

But, noone has any role in the "power of our Value System/Vedas/Reality"
[except for the Will of the Lord, ofcourse on the basis of the karma of all those involved].

 

[prasad1]

Unfortunately the Hindus are made to forget the religion while other religions have become more dominating & more evangelizing...The talk of Secularism is only for the Hindus & not for the rest..This is the present day dichotomy in India...I saw Renuka using the term Ilichavayan...The Hindus feel other religions are more powerful...That sums up the status of our current Hindu society.

I like Mr Govinda's post.
How or why Hindus feel this way. I think on the other hand Hindu may be confused, but the majority feels that they are superior. If you understand even a little bit of Hinduism, you are justified in the feeling that you are on the right path. You see the failings of all abrahamic religions because they have to follow an old dated book.

We attend Chinmaya Mission, Baps, and other organization here in USA. Even 2nd and 3rd generation kids understand the glory of Hindu religion. The dispair may be among the uneducated or misguided people.


Going back the OP of this thread,
Values are unique to every individual. Some of the values may be same, but even among them weight-age is given differently and depends on the circumstance.
So when one lament the loss of Hindu value I do not understand the intent of the post. Please tell me what Value are you talking about, be specific.

 

[renuka]

It is the same Renuka or any iyer/Advaitin, would say God can take any form, incl of Allah and Jesus. Now, when the christian or Muslim, considers our gods' worship as idol-worship, why do you blame him for our mis-understanding on secularism or call ourselves as 'IllichavAyan'?

Dear Govinda,

You see we are not confused...we all know God is one and He is called in many names.
The difference is we Hindus respect all forms of God in every religion.
On my altar at home I do have figurines of other religions too given by some friends of my parents when they came for my wedding.
I have accepted it and placed it on the altar.
In my house altar you can find all forms of divinity from Hindu,Muslim inscriptions, Christian,Buddhist and Taoist.

I do not see the difference but that does not mean one has to convert into another religion.
Respecting every religion is the hall mark of a civilized person but the problems starts when others do not respect religion the same way as we Hindus do.

I have no problems what a non Hindus thinks about Hinduism in his mind whether its bad or good as long he doesn't degrade Hinduism in front of me.

I know that internally we are all the same..housing the Atma inside us but if someone misbehaves with me I can surely make him see reality better..by
Sama,Bheda and Danda.

(I left Dana out cos I won't want to bribe anyone to know the truth)

 

[r_lakshminarasimhan]

Thanks everyone for your time & patience reading my first post.
It is difficult to define values, it is subjective.
Hindu ( Idus civilization) itself is a way of life rather being called a religion. Having heard such significant phrases, one can understand that it is being taken up, researched, organized & put in some shape by many spiritual/intellect gurus.
It has been scientific, systematic, knowledge based …
Values need not be a moving target. There can be various ways (changing) in realising the values.
Though we are in the survival of the fittest race, it does not mean we have to break the core values of the Hinduism. This may be one of the places where we give up one’s personal way of life for the sake of professional aspiration/need.
Biggest problem is we judge people on a continuous basis rather accept them as they are..Not everything is their own fault...few things are inherited by genes!!One has to attain the maturity to separate the differences & appreciate the secularism existing in Hinduism.
Well not everything need to be blindly accepted. There should be a rationale for everything told by elders..Acceptance without questions – Well, not all elders know the relevance & significance to core values may be bcos 1. the knowledge not properly transitioned.2.Many could not understand complex descriptions rather preferred to obey which inturn will help them demonstrate the core values.
Hinduism is not confused. It the people who claim they follow go mad behind specific gods, rituals or customs. Since it allows various types, forms of worship..It gives enough room to manipulate, misinterpret the actual teaching from epic, Veda’s, Upanishad’s & smritis.
The main problem is with influencing people.
Money matters a lot in this society. That takes precedence over anything in this era.
My intention is to reach as many people as possible to register the following in them
(We)Hindu’s or Brahmins for the case (by virtue of birth) are not inferior or superior to their fellow people.
We should demonstrate cooperation among different castes/sub caste
We should understand, appreciate & pass the benefit of the knowledge left over by our ancestors.
We should not influence or get influenced with any other spiritual practice. We should preserve & protect the heritage, temples etc., rather create new ones.
We should learn to live in harmony even when disturbed by communal & political forces.
These messages should spread. Many know Hindu’s for their humbleness & sincerity, it should also be known for the humaneness, most importantly for the inner divinity & spiritual elevation.

 

[prasad1]

Mr. Laksminarashimanji,
The majority on this site will agree with you. There will be few nay-sayers, who want this unity to fail. They will go to the extent of getting the country to fail to push their agenda of Caste/ religion based division.

Humbleness should not be equated to weakness.
"speak softly carry a big stick".