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Are we going in the right direction?

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GGR

Guest
Clipping from a News paper:

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Nimitz sailors needed no clearance in India R.K. Radhakrishnan



The governments worked it out: Captain
The visit is meant to improve ties

CHENNAI: Sailors from the United States’ nuclear-powered aircraft carrier, USS Nimitz, needed no clearance when they landed on Indian soil. No one at the Port security asked them for any special permit as they walked out of the gates of the Chennai Port Trust and interacted with the local population.
Asked what clearance the sailors took, Captain Michael C. Manazir, Commanding Officer, USS Nimitz, in an interview said: “Our governments had worked out a deal where … the agreement is that the ship and the crew are welcome in India. There was no clearance required for individual names. That has been worked out between the governments.”

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What do you think?
 

KRS

Well-known member
Dear rajiv.gunja Ji,

I think that this shows that there is a very good friendship between the two largest democracies in the world.

Yes, I know. The argument is going to be why the reverse is not true.

The reason, is just what has happened in London and Glasgow.

What India would gain by asking each American navy man to undergo a rigorous backgrond check? May be an air of feigned equality?

Does not make sense.

Pranams,
KRS
 

NARAS

Well-known member
sirs- We are certainly not going in the right direction. the Manmohan, prime minster of india, says he was not able to sleep on hearing news about arrest of indian muslims in britian on charges of abetting terrorism! the manmohan seems to be having more sympathy for terrorists than innocent civilians! islamic terrorism is the biggest challenge mankind has ever faced. it is a lethal mix of religion & violence. muslims are spread in large numbers all over the world, unlike hindus and this makes it easy for them to plan attacks in any part of the world on any scale, as we have seen in USA in 9/11 bombings and now in U.K. Islam has a history of violence ever since its inception. The Manmohan says, being a sikh himself, he is able to understand the plight of a muslim being suspected of terrorism! The Manmonhan says terrorists have no country or religion. But recent events have shown that a very high proportion of terrorists emanate from islam & from islamic countries. it was because of tough action by courageous police officials like Mr. K.P.S. Gill that sikh terrorism was crushed in punjab. only tough action by international community will bring islamic terrorism down to its knees. the sooner it is done, the better, for even innocent & ordinary muslims , as many of them who do not subsribe to terrorism or violence are also getting affected by this. it is giving their religion a very bad name indeed all over the world. PLEASE DO NOT SAY I AM TARGETTING A SINGLE COMMUNITY WITHOUT ANY PROOF OR EVIDENCE. DO VISIT THE FOLLOWING LINK:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_terrorism &
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Hindus


It is not my case that what wikipedia says should all be believed. they may even have said damaging remarks about brahmnism & hinduism. but what i have sourced are not remarks but facts.


If india and USA co-operate with each other in combating rogue elements like pakistan and china, visits of Nimitz and its likes will be very useful. otherwise it may not be of much significance.
 
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fire

Active member
US navy ship at Chennai...

Can anybody say why the ship is at Chennai...I have read about joint air exercises in the past in Indian soil. Not sure if the Americans allow such kind of events to take place in US. Yes we need relationship but that should not be at the cost of our security and dignity. Any relationship should be reciprocated and mutual in nature. I feel Indian leaders and Govt giving much importance to relationship with other countries, may it be Iran or US rather than building India as a stronger country (In fact a zero effort I can say ).India is pride of Sunita's return from the space station. What kind of research these people are encouraging in India?? Back in India
Govt research organizations are considered useless .Similarly India is not willing to reduce its dependencies on other Nations for critical resources.
 

KRS

Well-known member
Folks,

I just came across a couple of young Indian Airforce men in San Antonio, Texas, as they were checking in to my hotel. They said that they were on a training trip to the U.S.

Where is the loss of dignity in this?

Communists in India, unnecessarily create the 'loss of dignity' issue. Unfortunately, India has never learnt that there is no morality in the International game of power, but only the self-interest of each country. India can not wait for others to crown Her as important, She has to assert Herself with power in the world.

Pranams,
KRS
 

fire

Active member
Some events to remember!!!!!

Hi,
I just wanted to remind two events. One is George Fernandes went thro a security check in US despite he occupied an important post in India. So if there is a security importance we cannot ignore any step saying that will spoil our relation.

If Modi can be rejected Visa for certain reasons , US also can be accused of similar cases and faces protest here. Why dont we atleast make them know the point??

Can it not be considered 'loss of dignity' if we welcome whatever they do against us?

I guess we are maintaining a soft corner approach towards US as our country get financial benefits and we hope US wont use their power against us.

If they also allow indian ships in US waters there will be no point of opposing US ships alone.


Folks,

I just came across a couple of young Indian Airforce men in San Antonio, Texas, as they were checking in to my hotel. They said that they were on a training trip to the U.S.

Where is the loss of dignity in this?

Communists in India, unnecessarily create the 'loss of dignity' issue. Unfortunately, India has never learnt that there is no morality in the International game of power, but only the self-interest of each country. India can not wait for others to crown Her as important, She has to assert Herself with power in the world.

Pranams,
KRS
 

KRS

Well-known member
Hi,
I just wanted to remind two events. One is George Fernandes went thro a security check in US despite he occupied an important post in India. So if there is a security importance we cannot ignore any step saying that will spoil our relation.

If Modi can be rejected Visa for certain reasons , US also can be accused of similar cases and faces protest here. Why dont we atleast make them know the point??

Can it not be considered 'loss of dignity' if we welcome whatever they do against us?

I guess we are maintaining a soft corner approach towards US as our country get financial benefits and we hope US wont use their power against us.

If they also allow indian ships in US waters there will be no point of opposing US ships alone.

Dear Sri fire ji,

Mr. Fernandez was searched at the Dulles Airport in Washington D.C., as he was on a commercial flight and like everyone, he had to go through the security check point. There are no 'special' VIP clearence security gates in USA, like those I have seen in India. In fact, if George Bush were to take a commercial flight, he would be subjected to the same security check. If my memory serves me correctly, a couple of Senetors (I think Mr. Kennedy is one of them), whose names somehow 'sound' similar to some terrorists names, have to show their ids and get cleared every time they travel by a commercial flight. This, again, in my opinion, a storm in the tea cup, created by the leftists.

Regarding Modi, one needs to blame the anti-BJP lobbying in the US, asking for such an action by the State department. This decision was mainly based, according to the State department on the reports by the Human Rights Organizations in India over the Gujarat incident.

USA has flaws. Like any nation in the world, they act in self interest. One can find plenty of reasons to disagree with their policies.

Pranams,
KRS
 
OP
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G

GGR

Guest
I think having joint military excercises is a good thing and to have good relations with other super powers is also good. But I would draw a line at that. When it comes to military and intelligence about a country, one should safe gaurd against your allies more than your enemy. As a hit from an allie is blind-sighted than one from an enemy.

Here are the things I am concerned about when Nimitz docked 2 miles from Chennai:

1. What is the US navy monitoring about India? Are we monitoring them at all?

2. Free passage into one's country is one thing, but to freely mingle with public without supervision is yet another. Without back ground checks, how are we sure as to what speciality that navy person has? it could be home made bombs or it could be information gathering on dark places of India where lot of terrorists or anti-social elements reside. Or he could be a chef who is looking for good chennai recepies to cook on the Nimitz (NOT)

3. Not that their vist is unfriendly or unwelcome, but this had to happen when India announced to the world that it is in the market to buy 6 submarines, 33 battle ships and 126 multi role aircrafts? Not to mention the small thing that DRDO is trying to develop its hypersonic aircraft.

As a country our politicians are not in the same wave length with the militar or our defense needs.


 

KRS

Well-known member
Dear Sri rajiv-gunja ji,

Spying on allies is a very old tradition. One must assume that it goes on. We must understand also, that a country like USA, does not need a large ship and her sailors to act as spies. If I remember correctly, there are four very large American consulates in India.

In the name of neutrality, India was beholden to USSR all this time, including the dependence of military hardware. Scores of Russian fleet ships used to visit our ports and their military personnel visited, with nary a comment from anyone.

Why then this particular visit by Nimitz is raising concerns? I do not understand.

Pranams,
KRS
 
OP
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G

GGR

Guest
KRS,
This visit and this particular country's visit is important as we all know the history of this country, where it will not visit a country, unless it thought it was a threat or it was about to wage war.

Spying from within a consulate is very different and difficult as all equipment and personnel will go thro security check with the port authority of India. Where as folks on Nimitz did not.

Think about it, which will be easier, having radio equipment on the nimitz to monitor and gather info or get a bunch of equipment in full sight of Indians into a consulate?

Isnt this a similar conversation Iraqis had just before US went on war with Iraq? Iraq was making a deal with Russia and France, when GW decided to start a war on false pretext? Isnt that still a debate and a hot issue in US? and is it not why GW's popularity going down?

We should all judge countries by what they are capable of and when it comes to our own country, there is no measuring or taking sides, we should defend it all costs.

Its what GW said in the previous election. "I am not here for a popularity contest. I do not care what other countries think of me or us. I want my country to be a safe place."

I do not think any of our politicians are this patriotic. They might think more about their power and money than think 1 thought about their country. If they had thought of it, they would have had a better security detail for the visiting nimitz crew.
 

silverfox

Active member
Dear Rajiv:
I am asking the following question out of ignorance:

Just how or why do you think that the security of India has been compromised by the visiting Nimitz crew? What kind of spying do you think this crew might have done? What is it India has that the US wants for its intelligence gathering?

As Sri KRS has pointed out, every country should look after its own interests.
 
OP
OP
G

GGR

Guest
Silver Fox, I did not mention that any thing was compromised on India's part.

Your question is quite valid and true, so to answer it, I will have to ask you a question. If you can find the answer or its meaning, you will know why I am apprehensive.


Please tell me as to the reason why a Biggest Battleship of US has to dock near the port of Chennai, if this visit is only diplomatic and intelligence sharing why cannot it be achieved by flying US Army/Navy personnel over like the previous visits?

Food for thought!!

 

silverfox

Active member
Nimi9tz ship visit to India

Dear Rajiv:
I am quite naive when it comes all these things! My interest in spying stops with Tom Clancy (remember? "Red October" book and movie!!)
I still don't see any sinister move! As a matter of fact, these battleships DO go visit several countries on friendly visits.


Silver Fox, I did not mention that any thing was compromised on India's part.

Your question is quite valid and true, so to answer it, I will have to ask you a question. If you can find the answer or its meaning, you will know why I am apprehensive.


Please tell me as to the reason why a Biggest Battleship of US has to dock near the port of Chennai, if this visit is only diplomatic and intelligence sharing why cannot it be achieved by flying US Army/Navy personnel over like the previous visits?

Food for thought!!

 
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