A dog in the high court of Madras

[Ramachander]

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Dear Friends,
There is a great Euphoria among all Indians for getting several awards to the Indian artistes of the “Slum Dog Millionaire.” At the outset I would like to congratulate them because in a country like India full of brown and black people , nothing is greater than a recognition of the white people .
But most of you possibly did not notice about another dog usage in Tamil Nadu. When Dr.Subramanya Swamy , a Ph .D from Harvard , a great intellectual and a classmate of mine (whom I have not seen for the last 48 years) was appearing in some case in the High court of Madras, the lawyers enraged at his attitude towards LTTE, called him “Parppana Naye” (“Brahmin Dog” or literally a “Refugee settler dog”). I do not have any opinion on the right or wrong of Swami the politician but I was terribly pained by the usage resorted to by the lawyers of the high court of Madras.
Visibly there was no protest aired by the Tamilian Iyers, not even in these yahoo groups.(I understand that ******* protested. Possibly this is due to their being harassed by the government and people of Tamil Nadu . This is in spite of the fact that Sage Agasthya was a northern Brahmin , River Cauvery was his wife. Thiruvaluvar wrote in his great Tamil Veda that
“Brahmins are righteous people, because
They treat al beings with mercy and kindness.”
When the contribution to the Tamil language or culture of this community from the Sangam times to today is summed up , it is a very high percentage in spite of the fact that they never were more than 3-4% of the Tamil population at any time in the history. . I totally agree that like every other forward communities in Tamil Nadu and India, they practiced untouchability and for reasons unknown were able to get maximum number of the white collar jobs under the British. This to my mind is not sufficient reason for calling them dogs.
This would not have happened in any other state in South India , other than Tamil Nadu. True some jeering and some harassment of Brahmins are there in other states too but from the poorest to richest , all people have great respect for them. They respect them for their sincerity, honesty and intelligence.
With best wishes, Ramachander

 

[s007bala]

re

Shri Ramachander

Nice to know that you have had aquaintance with Shri Swamy.Suryannai Paarthhu Naigal Kulakiraddhu,but suriyann still gives sunshine and warmth.We are the suryanns unlike some 'shudra kuttans/kutties' howling at us.Shakadai illa poi,kalla vittarincha,anda shakadai thanni numba melay thaan vizhoom.Mr.Swamy is blessed by Mahaswamigal who will be his kavacham even from the brindavanam at Kanchi.Good wishes to you

sb

 

[Seshadri Subramaniam]

Yes, there certainly is a dog out there... the lawyer who abused swami...

To sb:

Looks like we do need an AXE brand party...

 

[s007bala]

re

Yes, there certainly is a dog out there... the lawyer who abused swami...

To sb:

Looks like we do need an AXE brand party...

appada!finally one thondan for AXE brand party....but seriously s s,i want to start this global party,maybe first step should be to have a website,with our own charter,rules,regulation,membership drive....etc Look at our website here,the number of people is significant,i am sure many would like join hands..at the outset..i am good organiser but you take leadership,if you are ok with that..more later:car:

sb

 

[happyhindu]

We are the suryanns unlike some 'shudra kuttans/kutties' howling at us.

Bala,

Though you have professed a few times about each person having all varna qualities within him and all that, but sometimes your usage of terms as above does little to keep that idea thru...just bringing to your notice... some things maybe perhaps be so ingrained in the subconscious that we do not realize it in when being easy going about it...

 

[happyhindu]

Most accounts say that advocate Gini Leo Immanuel was responsible for the egg throwing; and that the whole incidence was a sham made up by advocate Rajnikant and associates (in which other place wud lawyers go on strike for every drop of a hat including striking as a show of support to srilanka tamils). Advocate Rajnikant alleges that SS abused him using caste name and demanded the arrest of SS. It would be great is SS were to file a case for caste abuse under the same Civil Rights Act used by Rajnikant. And when will it ever happen that strikes by lawyers are banned by law: http://www.thehindu.com/holnus/000200902191931.htm

 

[s007bala]

re

Bala,

Though you have professed a few times about each person having all varna qualities within him and all that, but sometimes your usage of terms as above does little to keep that idea thru...just bringing to your notice... some things maybe perhaps be so ingrained in the subconscious that we do not realize it in when being easy going about it...

H H

After coming to know from Kunjuppu,how derogatory it is to call 'shudra kuttan/kutties' i deliberately used it to show my angst.But then now,it makes me wonder,neither you nor kunjuppu have ever mentioned about me writing ' paarppan or parrpathi' which is also derogatory towards our community.Had either of you written,then i would know,how impartial and sympathetic you both are towards tamizh brahmaanas.

Obviously lip sympathy is the order of the day,and it shows how united we are,becoz i am being targetted,unneccessarily by the likes of you,with holier than thou attitude!!As far as in real life,i know how to move about amongst non-brahmins and deal with them,thank you!!Its clear how Shri Ramachander and how Mr.Subramania SWamy feel,when in my own community ,i have to deal with nitpicking.

:target: sb :baby:

 

[happyhindu]

there are rural folk who use paarpan for brahmin coz they do not know any other term for brahmin; and brahmin probably is the anglicized form of brahmana. they use paarpana as a neutral gender for both males and females. its possible the word became derogatory only in recent times and amongst a given section only but is increasingly being understood as such. however the word shudra seems to have become derogatory even in courts..well, i cudn't help getting cynical, esp with regard to the case...god save the people where even lawyers are goondas and come prepared with eggs to defile a place which the common folk is supposed to respect.

 

[vanavil]

It appears two women with Dr. S. S, Ms. Radha Rajan & Ms. Uma Anandhan were also manhandled by the lawyers and Ms. Rajan has complained to the police about abusing her using her caste name.

http://www.expressbuzz.com/edition/...4A=&SectionName=EL7znOtxBM3qzgMyXZKtxw==&SEO=

 

[happyhindu]

goondas as politicians, police as goondas, now lawyers as goondas, how can anyone ever approach a place where a woman gets punched in her face and is called a dog by her caste name merely for opening a door to allow police to come in to control the situation. what does this mean for the common man? who can ever seek thse lawyers for anything..just plain goondas.

 

[happyhindu]

all those lawyers shd be dismissed immediately. there is no place for people who raise slogans to support a terrorist organization like ltte from indian soil.

 

[vanavil]

all those lawyers shd be dismissed immediately. there is no place for people who raise slogans to support a terrorist organization like ltte from indian soil.

You have very high hopes about our system. At present all actions are being taken on the police personnel involved, not on the lawyers involved.

 

[[email protected]]

:ballchain:To All Now everybody will put their Inteligent views and disscuss, but at the Courthall the TB Lawyers(My cousin also a Lawyer),were mum and no one came forward to protest.Since the most lawyers all are Iyengars. The glorry of Tamil Brahmin Lawyers nos reduced to low.All ways we keep ourslef away from publice life and we dont want to enter conderversies. No the time came We all should Stand united and Voice our protest against the Lawyers abused SS.We must stage a Drana and show our solidtity. So How Many come forward I am One ready to even go to Jail or to DIE for TB's.Why waiting do some thing and call our community Eleders and show TB's also a War Hero's. They never keep quite in future. S.R.K.

 

[happyhindu]

Vanavil,

No high hopes...never had any...what hope to have for an india that is infested and infected by goondas in public roles...

 

[s007bala]

re

Vanavil,

No high hopes...never had any...what hope to have for an india that is infested and infected by goondas in public roles...

H H

Even though i left India ten years back,but i never lose hope for India & Indians-just as i don't lose for America & Americans who are in shitload of mess today.I am a hopeful man,TN will change its ugly mentality especially Kazhagams,they are a disgrace to our Tamizh race.

sb:flame:

 

[KRS]

Dear Srimathi HH Ji,

The word 'Paarpanan' by itself is not derogatory by itself. In fact it is a lofty word, meaning 'a parson who sees (God, the Truth)'. Only when it is used as an adjective as it was in this case with the noun 'Dog', the whole expression becomes derogatory.

'Shudra' on the other hand is a derogatory word as it's roots derive from Sanskrit, describing a lowly person with impure mind. Applying the word to a whole class of people as a tit-for-tat to mean derogation makes it wholly and fully derogatory.

Your question about this is spot on.

Regards,
KRS

there are rural folk who use paarpan for brahmin coz they do not know any other term for brahmin; and brahmin probably is the anglicized form of brahmana. they use paarpana as a neutral gender for both males and females. its possible the word became derogatory only in recent times and amongst a given section only but is increasingly being understood as such. however the word shudra seems to have become derogatory even in courts..well, i cudn't help getting cynical, esp with regard to the case...god save the people where even lawyers are goondas and come prepared with eggs to defile a place which the common folk is supposed to respect.

 

[s007bala]

re

KRS

Janma Jaata Shudra Sarve
Karmenu Brahman Bhavati
All humans are Shudra by birth and they become Brahmins only by their good deeds later in their life.​

The learned seers used the human anatomy to describe Brahmana,Kshatriya,Vaishyas,Shudras.The Brahmana is akin to face which constitutes the Head with Sahasrara Chakram-therefore the highest in spiritual understanding.Shudras represent the feet-which is the most important part of human anatomy,for a human being to stand.All these were sublimal in nature of teaching.​

But in context with Shri Ramachander's post about Shri Subramania Swamy ill treatment 'Paarpan Nayae' or 'Brahmin Dog' is an insult as you rightly pointed.happyhindu does not obviously know in chennai when someone calls 'iyerrae' or 'oye pappathi porada' or 'pappan poranda'..etc its derogatory only.No amount of rationalisation to say otherwise, is only being delusional.Obviously you know it,hopefully happyhindu also comes to know about it now!​

sb​

P.S.The learned sages describes the pushpa padam as http://harekrsna.com/sun/features/03-09/features1301.htm​

 

[happyhindu]

Dear Bala,

Abt your post previous to the above, your idealism is refreshing and infectious...am going thru a phase of being judgemental and cynical...will bounce back to normal soon.

Abt your post above, perhaps you are right. I have not come across anyone saying 'pappan poranda', etc. I hear the term Iyerae in movies. Maybe its bcoz i have not stayed in chennai for more than a week per year since the past nearly 6-7 years or what i dunno (??).

The forms of addressing a brahmin i have come across (obviously amongst those i know) is ayya garu or ayya varu. Another term is pattar ayya (pattar word is not at all derogatory please). Pattars used to be very skilled in crafting numerous types of thali (mangalsutra). They cud tell a lot abt a caste / sub-caste merely by looking at a thali. They were experts in muhurta astrology, meaning they wud make a thali only on certain days after proper prayers, and if am not wrong they also used to do a homam around ayudhapooja time. Now i think it is literally impossible to find a pattar in that role and all those traditional shastric ways of making a thali are perhaps lost forever.


Dear Sri KRS-ji,

Thanks for the input. Is there any specific reference in the scriptures for shudra as a term derived from sanskrit roots ? Would it really refer to a class of people based on their occupation?

Thanks much.

Regards.

 

[KRS]

Dear Srimathi HH Ji,
The word apparently was derived from the Sanskrit Root as cited in Wikipedia for Shudras:
"Shudra comes from the word "shuchAt dravanam" a person who is in suffering/mourning/pain, who needs mental or physical cleansing"
It also seems to be related to skin colour.

Of course the Purusha Saktha in Rg Veda talks about the different parts of Purusha's body and says that the Shudras were made from the feet of the Purusha.

There are many questions whether this was inserted in to the Rg Veda text after the elaboration in Vishnu Purana of the same. Either way, in my opinion, this whole thing is mis-interprted by vested interests (both Indian and non-Indian) to either show that the Varnas are by heredity or Hinduism contains such anti human concepts. To me a Brahmin, created of the head is an intellectual, because of the mind, a Kshatriya is made of chest and arms because they give the power to fight, a Vaisya is made of the middle parts, because he needs to produce to eat and enjoy for all and of course the Shudra resembles the mobility and manual work a person has to do to survive. These are poetic and allegorical.

Please read the following, which, in my opinion has an excellent, logically argued explanation of the Caste system:

http://www.hinducounciluk.org/newsite/report/hcuk_thecastsystemreport.pdf

My own position on the heredity caste system is that it is totally invalid based on my own impartial observation of human beings of every hue and color. While it is neat to classify the human kind in to 4 categories in broad terms, I do not see it as valid, especially in today's terms. Probably in Vedic period terms too. Otherwise we would not have ended up with 5 broad Varnas and so many numerous divisions within each.

Any system that can be so easily abused by men can not be the Truth. This has nothing to do with Dharma or Adharma - it has everything to do with who a person is in present life.

The enlightenment needed for modern times is to understand that every individual matters. We all have unique talents and proclivities. The modern life affords each of us to express those God given talents in our own ways. We each can chart our own benign paths in this world.

With the old system of occupation by birth, I do not know what is the percentage of Brahmins who could not master the Vedas, Kshatrias who did not want to fight, Vaishyas who wanted to just study and hated money and above all Shudras who wanted to use their mind?

It is a Maha Paapam that those persons went through life and died in total frustration.

Just my two cents of ramblings.

Regards,
KRS

 

[KRS]

Dear Sri s007bala Ji,

I do not generally respond to your postings. Not because I think your postings are offensive, but they confuse me.

Take for example this posting. Your first sentence starts with a statement that we are all Shudras at our birth and become "Brahmins only by their good deeds later in their life".

Now, on the surface this looks like a statement a person who does not care about the caste system would make. But then, implied in this statement is that a person 'who does 'good deeds' can only be a Brahmin'. What are these 'good deeds?'. So, 'good deeds' increase your Sattvic portion of your Gunas?

I know you are an admirer of Maha Periaval. So, how do you reconcile your view (He believed that Caste is by birth), with His?

Again some mad gundas said something about Dr.SS. You immediately generalized it by calling them 'Shudras'. I can not reconcile your two different postions on this.

Please, if you can logically answer my questions. I do not very well understand anagram based magical realism with fantastic statements based on no established Truth.

By the way, I am quite shocked at your views on USA even after living here for ten years. I will explain later, if we can engage in a productive discussion first.

I atleast owe this posting to you - you answered my posting.

Regards,
KRS

KRS

Janma Jaata Shudra Sarve
Karmenu Brahman Bhavati
All humans are Shudra by birth and they become Brahmins only by their good deeds later in their life.​

The learned seers used the human anatomy to describe Brahmana,Kshatriya,Vaishyas,Shudras.The Brahmana is akin to face which constitutes the Head with Sahasrara Chakram-therefore the highest in spiritual understanding.Shudras represent the feet-which is the most important part of human anatomy,for a human being to stand.All these were sublimal in nature of teaching.​

But in context with Shri Ramachander's post about Shri Subramania Swamy ill treatment 'Paarpan Nayae' or 'Brahmin Dog' is an insult as you rightly pointed.happyhindu does not obviously know in chennai when someone calls 'iyerrae' or 'oye pappathi porada' or 'pappan poranda'..etc its derogatory only.No amount of rationalisation to say otherwise, is only being delusional.Obviously you know it,hopefully happyhindu also comes to know about it now!​

sb​

P.S.The learned sages describes the pushpa padam as http://harekrsna.com/sun/features/03-09/features1301.htm​

 

[s007bala]

re

Dear Bala,

Abt your post previous to the above, your idealism is refreshing and infectious...am going thru a phase of being judgemental and cynical...will bounce back to normal soon.

Maybe its PMS ( Punish Men Severely ),some women have it for 33 days/month..khe khee..just joshing..dont get mad now..

Abt your post above, perhaps you are right. I have not come across anyone saying 'pappan poranda', etc. I hear the term Iyerae in movies. Maybe its bcoz i have not stayed in chennai for more than a week per year since the past nearly 6-7 years or what i dunno (??).

Its not just 6-7 years.When i came in 1972 to chennai,such was attitude..i am sure it was existing even before 1972,is my inference..Kazhagams are rascist rabid fanatic tamizh loonies...

The forms of addressing a brahmin i have come across (obviously amongst those i know) is ayya garu or ayya varu. Another term is pattar ayya (pattar word is not at all derogatory please). Pattars used to be very skilled in crafting numerous types of thali (mangalsutra). They cud tell a lot abt a caste / sub-caste merely by looking at a thali. They were experts in muhurta astrology, meaning they wud make a thali only on certain days after proper prayers, and if am not wrong they also used to do a homam around ayudhapooja time. Now i think it is literally impossible to find a pattar in that role and all those traditional shastric ways of making a thali are perhaps lost forever.

In Kerala 'Patti Nayae' means 'brahmin dog'!Since i have not lived long enuff in Andhra Pradesh except i used to go for my vacations as my parents were living there,i will desist from opining!But i love gultans & gultis..mana vaadus!!The gold ornament makers are called 'assaaris' jathi.Their honesty as kula kalvi is supposedly of very high nature.But the present assaris are anything but honest..all of them have turned out to be rogues!

sb

 

[s007bala]

re

Dear Sri s007bala Ji,

I do not generally respond to your postings. Not because I think your postings are offensive, but they confuse me.

Thanks for being honest upfront.

Take for example this posting. Your first sentence starts with a statement that we are all Shudras at our birth and become "Brahmins only by their good deeds later in their life".

Now, on the surface this looks like a statement a person who does not care about the caste system would make. But then, implied in this statement is that a person 'who does 'good deeds' can only be a Brahmin'. What are these 'good deeds?'. So, 'good deeds' increase your Sattvic portion of your Gunas?

Good deeds varies from people to people.What is good to one need not neccessarily be good to another one.Its a relative thingy!.

Brahmin,Kshatriya,Vaishya,Shudra are personality traits inherent in each & every human being in earth.In order to facilitate easier administration for the Kings,people were grouped by birth and asked to follow a system of ritual,traditions,sampradayams..etc.Its a trial and error method just as it is a trial and error method here in USA.Can we become judgemental about white people or black people or brown people or yellow people..?NO.

I know you are an admirer of Maha Periaval. So, how do you reconcile your view (He believed that Caste is by birth), with His?

Mahaswamigal is authority of all authorities known to humanity!If there is anyone bigger than Mahaswamigal,then you may go and approach him/her for explanation.I certainly will not explain this on behalf of Mahaswamigal,becoz its a pappam i will commit knowingly!!

So,instead of questioning Mahaswamigal,i aligned my faith with Bhagavan Sathya Sai Baba,who is all inclusive of all religions or irreligions known to humanity!But then,have the society spared the 'swayam bhagavan' even?NO.

Now,becoz of his grace,i have a 'sahaja' view of all gurus,bhagavan..brahman which = non-duality = advaitham!Which is what Mahaswamigal was preaching all the time!

Again some mad gundas said something about Dr.SS. You immediately generalized it by calling them 'Shudras'. I can not reconcile your two different postions on this.

There is nothing 'mad' about them!They are called 'evil' in my dictionary!I have quoted to you and explained about 'shudra' by even giving examples as to how learned sages explained.Despite that,if you don't understand,please forgive me for attempting to explain!I give up!!

Please, if you can logically answer my questions. I do not very well understand anagram based magical realism with fantastic statements based on no established Truth.

Truth varies from people to people based on their perceptions & experiance.What is truth for me may not be truth for you!!Each of the species of god,is unique in its own ways!!To see the sahajam in all requires 'divya drishti' which comes only by repeated births & deaths thru various species over a number of lifetimes!There are very many great gurus who teach this for a living and not for a living too,as the case maybe!

By the way, I am quite shocked at your views on USA even after living here for ten years. I will explain later, if we can engage in a productive discussion first.

I atleast owe this posting to you - you answered my posting.

Regards,
KRS

My intention was to shock,so i write in a manner like that.But believe this too when i write-I love USA and the people and i want the leaders to change what they are doing with other parts of the world and their cultures!The reason being,when your own house is not in order,who the heck are you to preach to others,as to how they should live or not live?Just becoz you have the power to decimate nations with bombs,and make them supplicant to you,does not make a nation great.Its pure EVIL!

I have also opined about India & its leaders just as i have opined about America & its leaders.No one is perfect,including me.Is it wrong on my part,to let off steam,in a virtual forum?I dare not say this to anyone on their face,as either it will make them angry or hurt!

Who the heck am i,in anycase? = A No body! ( aham brahmasmi ) i am not the body but a spirit soul!:flame:

sb :thumb:

 

[KRS]

My response in 'red' below.

Thanks for being honest upfront.


Good deeds varies from people to people.What is good to one need not neccessarily be good to another one.Its a relative thingy!.

So then, how do you determint that one becomes a Brahmin? There are no standards? So, it is enough that one believes that he/she has done enough good to make them Brahmins?

Brahmin,Kshatriya,Vaishya,Shudra are personality traits inherent in each & every human being in earth.In order to facilitate easier administration for the Kings,people were grouped by birth and asked to follow a system of ritual,traditions,sampradayams..etc.Its a trial and error method just as it is a trial and error method here in USA.Can we become judgemental about white people or black people or brown people or yellow people..?NO.

Who is talking about relative judgements on humanity here? I just asked what would qualify as 'good actions' to become a Brahmin, in the Hindu context?

Mahaswamigal is authority of all authorities known to humanity!If there is anyone bigger than Mahaswamigal,then you may go and approach him/her for explanation.I certainly will not explain this on behalf of Mahaswamigal,becoz its a pappam i will commit knowingly!!

So,instead of questioning Mahaswamigal,i aligned my faith with Bhagavan SaAdvaitham tradition of Maha Periaval promotes the 'Sahaja' view you have,thya Sai Baba,who is all inclusive of all religions or irreligions known to humanity!But then,have the society spared the 'swayam bhagavan' even?NO.

Now,becoz of his grace,i have a 'sahaja' view of all gurus,bhagavan..brahman which = non-duality = advaitham!Which is what Mahaswamigal was preaching all the time!

Okay, what you are saying in so many words is that the 'Sahaja' view is promoted by Advatha is what you believe in and so you do not believe in Caste by birth as Maha Periaval said.


There is nothing 'mad' about them!They are called 'evil' in my dictionary!I have quoted to you and explained about 'shudra' by even giving examples as to how learned sages explained.Despite that,if you don't understand,please forgive me for attempting to explain!I give up!!

Is 'evil' absolute or relative? Does the word 'Shudra' indicates evil?

Truth varies from people to people based on their perceptions & experiance.What is truth for me may not be truth for you!!Each of the species of god,is unique in its own ways!!To see the sahajam in all requires 'divya drishti' which comes only by repeated births & deaths thru various species over a number of lifetimes!There are very many great gurus who teach this for a living and not for a living too,as the case maybe!

This is another perfect example where you confuse me. Truth is absolute. It may be 'perceived' differently by different folks. Like the story of three blind men trying to describe an elephant. Elephant is always an elephant.

But 'divya drishti' is for the most advanced souls like Maha Periaval's. Just because one goes through many births, he/she does not automatically aquire the drshti.

I do not understand your context here with respect to my post.


My intention was to shock,so i write in a manner like that.But believe this too when i write-I love USA and the people and i want the leaders to change what they are doing with other parts of the world and their cultures!The reason being,when your own house is not in order,who the heck are you to preach to others,as to how they should live or not live?Just becoz you have the power to decimate nations with bombs,and make them supplicant to you,does not make a nation great.Its pure EVIL!

Again, confusion. Your statements don't shock me. What shocks me is how little understanding you have of USA, even after living here for 10 years. For example, when you lament that USA should not be friends with UK, you are displaying a total lack of knowledge about this country's history and culture as well as UK's. You sound exactly like some Indians living in India who form their opinion about USA solely by reading a left wing news paper.

I have also opined about India & its leaders just as i have opined about America & its leaders.No one is perfect,including me.Is it wrong on my part,to let off steam,in a virtual forum?I dare not say this to anyone on their face,as either it will make them angry or hurt!
No, you have every right to vent. But some people may not respond to venting, magical assertions and conclusions made out of thin air and feelings and not out of logic. It is a funny read though.

Who the heck am i,in anycase? = A No body! ( aham brahmasmi ) i am not the body but a spirit soul!:flame:
I have not seen anyone who professes universal love on one hand and absolute hate towards some segments on the other hand. You sir, is not a no body. You definitely are somebody, with an agenda!

Regards,
KRS

sb :thumb:

 

[s007bala]

re

>>So then, how do you determint that one becomes a Brahmin? There are no standards? So, it is enough that one believes that he/she has done enough good to make them Brahmins?<<

There are standards in everything,provided one wants to follow standard procedures.Even to discuss vedantam,we should have certain qualifications.But thanks to modern education,everyone is everything these days,which is very refreshing in any case.

>>Brahmin,Kshatriya,Vaishya,Shudra are personality traits inherent in each & every human being in earth.In order to facilitate easier administration for the Kings,people were grouped by birth and asked to follow a system of ritual,traditions,sampradayams..etc.Its a trial and error method just as it is a trial and error method here in USA.Can we become judgemental about white people or black people or brown people or yellow people..?NO.
Who is talking about relative judgements on humanity here? I just asked what would qualify as 'good actions' to become a Brahmin, in the Hindu context? <<

The book written by Mahaswamigal of Kanchi explains things very well.My explanation will confuse you only,is my opinion.

>>Mahaswamigal is authority of all authorities known to humanity!If there is anyone bigger than Mahaswamigal,then you may go and approach him/her for explanation.I certainly will not explain this on behalf of Mahaswamigal,becoz its a pappam i will commit knowingly!!
So,instead of questioning Mahaswamigal,i aligned my faith with Bhagavan SaAdvaitham tradition of Maha Periaval promotes the 'Sahaja' view you have,thya Sai Baba,who is all inclusive of all religions or irreligions known to humanity!But then,have the society spared the 'swayam bhagavan' even?NO.
Now,becoz of his grace,i have a 'sahaja' view of all gurus,bhagavan..brahman which = non-duality = advaitham!Which is what Mahaswamigal was preaching all the time!
Okay, what you are saying in so many words is that the 'Sahaja' view is promoted by Advatha is what you believe in and so you do not believe in Caste by birth as Maha Periaval said.<<

Caste by birth is only shudra for all of us in the world.I am accepting caste becoz it exists.In my real life experiance,i am not a brahmin by definition,but yet i am forced by society to call myself jathi brahmin.I cannot remove it.I am born into it.Just like whichever country one is born,he automatically acquires the nationality.

>>There is nothing 'mad' about them!They are called 'evil' in my dictionary!I have quoted to you and explained about 'shudra' by even giving examples as to how learned sages explained.Despite that,if you don't understand,please forgive me for attempting to explain!I give up!!
Is 'evil' absolute or relative? Does the word 'Shudra' indicates evil? <<

Everything is relative,evil is also relative to something good perceived.Shudra does not indicate evil.In my definition,i would describe the labor oriented worker in a factory to give you an example of the hierarchy of things.Learned sages used human anatomy and said feets are personification of shudra.Now can feet be evil?Don't we all need feet?Therefore shudra is inherent in everyones nature.Mahaswamigal is known as 'Nadamadum Deivam' meaning he used his feet to walk.So,feet is very important for human beings.

>>Truth varies from people to people based on their perceptions & experiance.What is truth for me may not be truth for you!!Each of the species of god,is unique in its own ways!!To see the sahajam in all requires 'divya drishti' which comes only by repeated births & deaths thru various species over a number of lifetimes!There are very many great gurus who teach this for a living and not for a living too,as the case maybe!
This is another perfect example where you confuse me. Truth is absolute. It may be 'perceived' differently by different folks. Like the story of three blind men trying to describe an elephant. Elephant is always an elephant.<<

That elephant is a elephant only a man with vision knows,not the blind men.

>>But 'divya drishti' is for the most advanced souls like Maha Periaval's. Just because one goes through many births, he/she does not automatically aquire the drshti.
I do not understand your context here with respect to my post.<<

What is this advanced souls?Is there gradation of souls?If so,do you know your souls stage?How would you know about 'divya drishti' is with Mahaswamigal like people only?Bhagavan Sathya Sai Baba,automatically has the 'divya drishti' from birth(Shiva-Shakthi Swaroopam).In his previous body,he was known 'shirdi sai baba'(Shivam Swaroopam).In the future body which will take place in 2030 as'mandya baba' is prohesised by bhagavan himself(Shakthi Swaroopam).Whether to believe bhagavan or not,is entirely your will & pleasure.For me and millions like me,he is'swayam bhagavan'.

>>My intention was to shock,so i write in a manner like that.But believe this too when i write-I love USA and the people and i want the leaders to change what they are doing with other parts of the world and their cultures!The reason being,when your own house is not in order,who the heck are you to preach to others,as to how they should live or not live?Just becoz you have the power to decimate nations with bombs,and make them supplicant to you,does not make a nation great.Its pure EVIL!
Again, confusion. Your statements don't shock me. What shocks me is how little understanding you have of USA, even after living here for 10 years. For example, when you lament that USA should not be friends with UK, you are displaying a total lack of knowledge about this country's history and culture as well as UK's. You sound exactly like some Indians living in India who form their opinion about USA solely by reading a left wing news paper. <<

Can you first enumerate,how you have concluded my understanding of USA?Now i am confused about this.I am Indian,how else will i sound.There are number of Indian-Americans whom with i have mingled also express sentiments like mine,does that make them un-patriotic?

>>I have also opined about India & its leaders just as i have opined about America & its leaders.No one is perfect,including me.Is it wrong on my part,to let off steam,in a virtual forum?I dare not say this to anyone on their face,as either it will make them angry or hurt!
No, you have every right to vent. But some people may not respond to venting, magical assertions and conclusions made out of thin air and feelings and not out of logic. It is a funny read though.<<

Really.Oh,i see.

>>Who the heck am i,in anycase? = A No body! ( aham brahmasmi ) i am not the body but a spirit soul!
I have not seen anyone who professes universal love on one hand and absolute hate towards some segments on the other hand. You sir, is not a no body. You definitely are somebody, with an agenda!
Regards,
KRS<<

You have mentioned both.That i profess universal love.That i profess absolute hate to some minority segments values only.Both are true.That is how i am.I am open about it.I came to this country USA with lots of dreams.I am fulfilling each one of them slowly.If thats called agenda,so be it.
sb

 

[KRS]

there are standards in everything,provided one wants to follow standard procedures.even to discuss vedantam,we should have certain qualifications.but thanks to modern education,everyone is everything these days,which is very refreshing in any case.
yes, i agree.

the book written by mahaswamigal of kanchi explains things very well.my explanation will confuse you only,is my opinion.
my intention is to show that where it is convenient for you, you do not follow his teachings - you pick and choose. Yet you advertise he is a god to you! Rofl.

caste by birth is only shudra for all of us in the world.i am accepting caste becoz it exists.in my real life experiance,i am not a brahmin by definition,but yet i am forced by society to call myself jathi brahmin.i cannot remove it.i am born into it.just like whichever country one is born,he automatically acquires the nationality.
correct logic.

everything is relative,evil is also relative to something good perceived.shudra does not indicate evil.in my definition,i would describe the labor oriented worker in a factory to give you an example of the hierarchy of things.learned sages used human anatomy and said feets are personification of shudra.now can feet be evil?don't we all need feet?therefore shudra is inherent in everyones nature.mahaswamigal is known as 'nadamadum deivam' meaning he used his feet to walk.so,feet is very important for human beings.
correct logic twice! But then knowing this, why did you throw the invective 'those shudra kuttys/kuttans'? This does not jive.

that elephant is a elephant only a man with vision knows,not the blind men.
yes, but that does not make it true as it is perceived by blind. There is one truth. All others are 'perceptions' and 'maya'. Rope versus snake. The point is, there are no 'relative' truths.

what is this advanced souls?is there gradation of souls?if so,do you know your souls stage?how would you know about 'divya drishti' is with mahaswamigal like people only?bhagavan sathya sai baba,automatically has the 'divya drishti' from birth(shiva-shakthi swaroopam).in his previous body,he was known 'shirdi sai baba'(shivam swaroopam).in the future body which will take place in 2030 as'mandya baba' is prohesised by bhagavan himself(shakthi swaroopam).whether to believe bhagavan or not,is entirely your will & pleasure.for me and millions like me,he is'swayam bhagavan'.
i was not talking about sri sai baba. I don't know much about him. He may very well have divya drishti. I was talking about mere mortals like me.

can you first enumerate,how you have concluded my understanding of usa?now i am confused about this.i am indian,how else will i sound.there are number of indian-americans whom with i have mingled also express sentiments like mine,does that make them un-patriotic?
there is no institutionalized caste syatem here. Americans are simple, straight forward, hard working. The un patriotism comes in when some people do and say certain things that injure americans here and abroad. Your extreme left wing ideology is making you to say and do things against american interests. Your first priority is an ideology not the welfare of americans today. You bring your hate from india and transferred it on all white christians here. Need i say more?


really.oh,i see.

krs