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A Case for Tamil Archanai தமிழில் அர்ச்சனை செய்வது தவறா ?

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Nacchinarkiniyan

Nacchinarkiniyan

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A Case for Tamil Archanai தமிழில் அர்ச்சனை செய்வது தவறா ?

This is a topic which has been discussed very often in so many forums and magazines. In general it has been portrayed as if the Brahmin community is against performing Archanai in Tamil.

This discussion is not about whether the government has the authority to dictate Hindu practices and whether they are right in doing so. These are the points discussed threadbare in many forums. So no politics in this discussion and rants about government interference in temple affairs. We have all been through that.

Here I would like to discuss the following.

1. The practice of Archanai in Tamil Nadu temples. Is the practice as per the Sasthras? How the practice has been modified due to popular demand.

2. Whether there is any bar on doing Archanai in Tamil or for that matter in languages other than sanskrit.

3. Is it a new practice? History of Tamil Archanai among the Brahmins.

I am making out a case for the Brahmins to approve the practice of performing Arcchanai in Tamil in temples. Again it is a point to be discussed whether all the Tamil Brahmins are against it?
 
The practice of Archanai (Namavali) in Tamil Nadu temples.

This is a custom which is prevalent in Tamil Nadu, A.P, and Karnataka. Typically the devotee pays money to get the Archanai done. The priest performs a sankalpa in the name of the devotee and then praises GOD in a namavali. 108 or 1008 names are most common. At the end of the namavali the priest performs a Karpura Aarti to the deity and that completes the ritual. Coconuts and fruits are many a time added.

Where does this fit in the procedure laid down in the Agamas? Generally it is an accepted practice that there should be a tri-kala puja at all temples. Morning, afternoon, and evening. The Pujas could be more. But tri-kala is the bare minimum. During these pujas upacharas are performed for the deity. Normally shodopachara or sixteen upacharas. Namavali and Karpura aarti are two of the upacharas.

Now these pujas are supposed to be done for the benefit of all the devotees. There was no sankalpa naming individuals. But a change was made later that an individual sankalpa was made in the name of the King or the ruler. Later this was expanded to include the name of the donors who donated for the privilege.

This is the system which is prevalent in Kerala. You buy a Archanai ticket in Guruvayoor for example. When is it done? It is supposed to be done during one of the Pujas. In smaller temples individual names are mentioned, But in bigger temples it is just placing of the slip. This is called Vazhipadu. But in colloquial terms a vazhipadu has come to mean an empty ritual.

In most of these cases only the sankalpa is different. The Namavali (Archanai) is common. Practices may differ but the common strain is that namavali is part of the tri-kala Puja.

The concept of archanai in Tamil Nadu took the namavali out of the tri-kala puja. It became an end by itself. Priests perform namavali throughout the day and show karpura aarthi. Again Karpura Arthi is to be performed only during the tri-kala puja.

In effect the entire Archanai business in Tamil Nadu temples is against laid down Agamic practices and not approved by any sasthras. This practice came into vogue to satisfy the devotees who paid money for the privilege.

When the entire practice of archanai is against the laid down procedures of the Sasthras, where is the question of language?
 
Sir,

About the last sentence in the previous post, i think it is not the TBs but the non-tamilbrahmins who are against it (surprise, surprise but i know of tamil friends who too are against it). Also perhaps you may wish to look at it from the point of view of political pressure; since i don't think archanai is performed in kannada, telugu or malayalam in other states. Everyone is happy with Pasurams in Tamil, i don't think anyone wants them translated to Sanskrit. God understands and loves all languages. It is those who do not understand God that make trouble. If someone wants archanai in Tamil, so be it. If someone wants archanai in Sanskrit, i suppose a provision could be made to allow that as well (hopefully people can have a choice or option in choosing the language ?).
 
wow...

sir, then what would be the right procedure for a devotee going to a temple to follow? can we perform or not perform archanais? If not, then what form of prayer can we perform?
 
HH,

As I said earlier let us keep politics out of this. I am aware that the non-brahmins are also opposed to it. But the political parties make it out that only Brahmins are opposing it. The reason why it is happening only in Tamil Nadu is not because of politics. Tamil has been an integral part of Hinduism in Tamil Nadu. You do not have the equivalent of Thevaram and Nalayira Divyaprabhandam in other languages. They are older than many of the Puranas.

The Tamil Brahmins have a very old history of praying in Tamil. We are proud of that. It is the Nayanmars of Tamil Nadu ( Brahmin Nayanmars were there) who started the Bhakthi movement in Hinduism.
 
When we place a sea shell (sangu in tamil) in our ears we hear a sound. What is that sound, anyone relates it to the sound of ocean and extrapolating it to the sound of aaaaaauuuuuuuuuuuummmmmmm.

If one decided to make it understandable to listerner who has never kept a sea shell in his ears and so they wanted to explain it in let's say native language Tamil. So they can call it "sangu satham". So the listener was asked to explain the sound from a sea shell he said, "sangu satham". Now can we say by saying the words "sangu satham" you are actually reciprocating the sound of a sea shell? The sound from the sea shell remains the same and cannot be changed even if we claim to want to express it in our own language.

Similarly, the world by nature has/operates with various sounds in various frequencies. The correct pronunciation of certain sounds would help in certain changes. Some lead to positive changes. A bunch of words pronounced in a particular way provides certain vibrations which lead to positive changes.

If some one does not believe in sound Vs change, they can take examples of glass reverberating for certain sounds in certain frequencies and even breaking. You can take the example of sound waves affecting our ear drum if the frequency is unfavorable. You will find many such examples.

A bunch of words creating specific positive vibrations are categorized by a name or purpose definition. This is called a mantra or stotra. Archana is enacting mantra(s) or stotra(s). So if we decided to change the words into native language how can we get the specific vibrations intended? Then how does the archana benefit at all?

If someone said the intent is more important then why do the archana at all. Why don't we just think about the purpose and skip the archana?

Someone can say by performing the archana in native language, we can understand the meaning and where by be able to achieve the intent. Well, then why don't we first take effort to understand the meaning and then perform the archana in the very sounds that would really create the vibrations required?
 
happyhindu said:
wow...

sir, then what would be the right procedure for a devotee going to a temple to follow? can we perform or not perform archanais? If not, then what form of prayer can we perform?
Click to expand...

The Brahmins did the sankalpa and the Namavali when the knowledge was restricted. Now that we all know Stotras and Slokas why do you need a middle man. Let the Brahmins cater to those who do not have this knowledge. You do not even need slokas. What you need is devotion. Bhakthi.

You can do your own sankalpa and then recite slokas/stotras/mantras. The sankalapa can be specific unlike the general AyurArogyaAisvarya abhividyartam said by the priests. Why do want to introduce yourself? Does not the creator know you already?

Do we not all place our specific demands to GOD at the end of the temple visit? Is it not in your own language. Like when my children were very young they wanted to know whether GOD knows English so the they could make specific requests. GOD is omniscient and Omnipotent.
 
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The namavali part in the shodapachara does not emphasize on the sound part of it. If you see the shodapachara ritual in detail, it is the treatment of GOD who is on a visit to your house. Washing the feet, offering a seat, giving water to wash mouth etc. etc. We believe that this would please GOD. The we praise GOD in the Namavali. MAA is called Stotra Priyayai and Studhi Priyayai. We call the Upachara Raja Upacharam.

The entire idea is to please GOD. The language of the Namavali does not matter at all. This is part of Bhakthi and not Mantra Yoga. What is required is Shraddha and Bhakthi.

In individual and temple Pujas mantras are recited by the priests or the devotee performing the Puja. The priest is expected to recite the MoolaMantra of the Deity with which the original Avahanam was done. Sadly in most of the cases even the Moola Manra is forgotten.
 
There are various forms of addressing God and my salutations to all of them, simply because they at least accept the presence of an omnipotent one. But, here talking about "Archanai" in native language IS the context and so was my previous posting related only to it.

If we want to talk about which form of worship is better, I am not for it. Each will come up with a new one and I guess that is the freedom of our religion.

But, coming to speak of archanai as a combinations of actions which constitute mantras and stotras, I understand what I have earlier posted is relevant.

In one of your postings below, you have said that we can pray to God in any language. True. If I were to comment my views on it without any offense meant...why pray to God at all, because it is God that has created everything, maintains everything and destroys too. Then when we decide to pray we also are deciding to make specific requests that we believe would make God change the course of action or events already designed for us.

The question of pleasing God by worship comes only when we want a specific outcome from God. Devotion/Bhakthi is supposed to be unconditional love. Then how can there be a request for specific outcome? Then where is the question of pleasing God who has everything? Where is the question of doing anything to one who contains us and everything?

Just for fun, when someone can forget what is Moola dhaara, they can also tend to forget Moola mantra. In your case, you have forgotten the "t" in the mantra word on your posting, making it a "Moola Manra". The play of God also constitutes making us forget things so we undergo what God wants us to each moment....each life.
 
Sri N-ji,

For the benefit of NBs or those who wud require an archanai to be performed by a priest, please can you guide if we can ask the priest to perform archanai in a certain murai. What should we tell the priest so that he can understand that we need it to be performed in the right way? I don't think ppl like my mum know more than a few slokams / stotrams.
 
Sri Nacciji and Svji, This particular issue only in TN and not elsewear in India, in North India any body can perform Pooja and Abisekams etc and the pujari will do sankalpa before go into the kind of affering to the God. (Idle) .This Temples,Churchs, Majiths all made by the Human being and the idle(deity) made by Human,But God made every thing like Flowers, coconuts, leafs, and water, the same thing we affer to the god is so suitable. That why the Tamil Siddhers teaches us about Self realization for God realization. Todays fast life the way of changes should come and to accept it. GOD is Omniscient and Omnipotent and Omnipresent. S.R.K.
 
Devotion/Bhakthi is not only unconditional love. A Devotee is called one because he has devotion. All people coming to temples are Bhakthas. Bhakthas have specific requests to God.

The concept of Bhakthi is based on the idea that if you please GOD he would grant you favours.
 
Whether there is any bar on doing Archanai in Tamil or for that matter in languages o

There is no scripture which says that Namavali should be only in Sanskrit. The Bhakthi movement which started in Tamil Nadu with the Nayanmars around 700 A.D first brought the local languages for praying to God. It was one of the unique features of the Bhakthi movement, the other being the dropping of the caste restrictions.

It is the Bhakthi movement which rejuvenated Hinduism and enabled it to survive. Though Adi Sankaracharya is known for Advaita Vedanta, he is better known for the number of slokas and stotras which he wrote like Lingashtakam, Annapurnashtakam etc. etc. In fact these slokas and stotras led the way for individual prayer as against the ritual temple prayer.

Tamil Nadu has a great history of infusing Tamil into Hinduism. Two great scriptures Thevaram and Nalayira Divya Prabhandam are in Tamil.

In many north Indian temples the Aarti consists solely of singing Hindi Bhajans. In Kasi Viswanath temple it is a mixture of Sanskrit and Hindi. Earlier it was only Hindi bhajans. But now they have revived the Sanskrit tradition. In the Panduranga temple in Pandharpur the Aarti is mainly Marathi bhajan. The ritualistic Pujas are now confined mostly to South Indian temples.

Even in Tamil Nadu many of the Sree Vaishnava temples, Nalayira Divya Prabhandam is given more importance than any Sanskrit text. Even Thrupathi temple Puja does consist of reciting Tamil hymns.

Has Tirupathi temple lost its sanctity because of the Tamil hymns? Tirupathi temple is not controlled by the Kazhakam people.

At the time of the Kumbabhishekam of one of the temples in Chennai in a brief ceremony hymns from the four Vedas and Thevaram were recited. I was agreeably surprised when an announcement was made about reciting Dravida Veda and Nalayira Divya Prabandham was recited.

Now coming to the actual Archanai, every nama should be followed by the offering of a flower or Kumkumam. Archanai is called Pushpanjali in Kerala. How many temples are there where they offer flowers for every nama? I have seen that the devotees are only bothered about the inclusion of the names of all children and grandchildren and care very little about whether the namavali is in Sanskrit or Latin. The priests mumble and recite 108 names in a record time of five minutes.

Then why are some people opposed to it?

People are always resistant to change. Tamil Brahmins as a community hate any changes to their religious habits.

Not because the community loves Sanskrit. Not many Tamil Brahmins know Sanskrit and even the priests read the stotras from a Tamil book. It is quite common to find Sasthirigals who have gone to Veda Patashala carrying a Tamil copy of the Taitriya Mantra Kosam.

It is high time that the Tamil Brahmin community extended its full support to the Archanai in Tamil.

In what way is

பொன்னார் மேனியனே
புலித்தோலை அரக்கசைத்து
.....

inferior to

शिवं शिवकरं शान्तम्
.....

ஆத்தாளை, எங்கள் அபிராம வல்லியை, அண்டம் எல்லாம்
பூத்தாளை, மாதுளம் பூ நிறத்தாளை, புவி அடங்கக்
காத்தாளை, ஐங்கணைப் பாசங்குசமும் கருப்புவில்லும்
சேர்த்தாளை, முக்கண்ணியைத், தொழுவார்க்கு ஒரு தீங்கு இல்லையே.
 
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When i had written some relevant stuff about sounds Vs effect of mantras/stotras...you did not seem to agree...well that is your view point or limitation currently

When i had written some relevant stuff about unconditional love as the basis of Bhakthi you had talked about barter system with God by pleasing him to get favors in return....well that is your view point or limitation currently.

When i had written saying i leave you to your belief, you have now continued to push others to change their belief into asking favors by pleasing the omnipotent. There are and have been people who do not barter with God, let's not belittle them

All the more just like we know it is not great to blame a community outright for anything...why do i see this quote in your posting..."Tamil Brahmins as a community hate any changes to their religious habits."

Finally you have asked a question how is one language inferior to another by some quotes in about three languages....well you can find this question not relevant in my view for this context of archanai...for that matter language is for communication between humans...we are now discussing about communicating to the immortal one..if you still want to know why a specific bunch of sounds which is not native language should be used for this purpose...then could you pls go back to my posting explaining sound vs change made in this thread already. As I have already explained, it is the vibrations that matter...from our mind and body...so when we discuss in this context bringing in discussions about which language is greater or inferior would be a mere mis-direction
 
The Tamil Brahmins have taken up reciting திருப்புகழ் Thiruppukazh in a big way now. This effort was started by an individual. Now it has spread to all the major cities like Mumbai, Kolkata and Bangalore and abroad. திருப்புகழ் அன்பர்கள் groups have been formed.

Just search for "thiruppugazh anbargal" in Google.

வேலனுக்கு அரோஹரா !!!
 
Nacchinarkiniyan said:
The Tamil Brahmins have taken up reciting திருப்புகழ் Thiruppukazh in a big way now. This effort was started by an individual. Now it has spread to all the major cities like Mumbai, Kolkata and Bangalore and abroad. திருப்புகழ் அன்பர்கள் groups have been formed.

Just search for "thiruppugazh anbargal" in Google.

வேலனுக்கு அரோஹரா !!!
Click to expand...


You quote above concedes that "Tamil Brahmins" are open to change. This does not seem to be in line with your own quote..."Tamil Brahmins as a community hate any changes to their religious habits."

Disclaimer: I am quite passionate about devotional hymns whether they be in an Indian language or any other.
 
Tamil Brahmins have adapted to the times. Their success is due to their adaptability. But it is true only in the case of individuals. As a community they hate changes. I was talking about the community.

There is no valid reason for their opposing Archanai in Tamil. Even when they know that it is a scoring point for the anti-Brahmins to portray them as anti-Tamil, they still refuse to see reason.

When will we ever learn?
 
Nacchinarkiniyan said:
Tamil Brahmins have adapted to the times. Their success is due to their adaptability. But it is true only in the case of individuals. As a community they hate changes. I was talking about the community.

There is no valid reason for their opposing Archanai in Tamil. Even when they know that it is a scoring point for the anti-Brahmins to portray them as anti-Tamil, they still refuse to see reason.

When will we ever learn?
Click to expand...

Firstly, it is surprising for me that you continue to belittle a community with no reasoning or basis with respect to their ability to change to time or adaptability in general.

Secondly, all change is not necessarily positive. Any individual or community which would like to retain any positive aspects of its tradition is in my view a great thing.

Thirdly, "scoring points" with other communities cannot be the basis/reason for choosing language for Archanai. It is all about reaching the right vibrations using specifically pronounced sounds as part of the process which may include other activities like offering of flowers or any other.

Finally - about what you said in a posting earlier, "It is high time that the Tamil Brahmin community extended its full support to the Archanai in Tamil." When you take the liberty to say it is high time for a community to change in a particular way you think....I guess I can as well take the same liberty and say...it is high time that anyone stops asking people to come out of specific traditions, just because you as an individual don't believe in it or haven't understood the greatness behind it.
 
SV,

You were talking about Mantra/Sloka/Stotra.

Please see page 93 of Vishnu Sahasranama stotram By LIFCO, Madras. My old tattered book is 1967 edition. The difference between Japa and parayana are explained. Namavali does not come under Mantra Japa since we do not recite Rishi, Chandas and Devata or perform the requisite Nyasas. Temple archanas are Namavali.
 
re

SV

>>Finally - about what you said in a posting earlier, "It is high time that the Tamil Brahmin community extended its full support to the Archanai in Tamil." When you take the liberty to say it is high time for a community to change in a particular way you think....I guess I can as well take the same liberty and say...it is high time that anyone stops asking people to come out of specific traditions, just because you as an individual don't believe in it or haven't understood the greatness behind it.<<

Tamil Brahmins as you rightly pointed,adapt & adopt to change and some amongst us,like our traditional practice.While as a community,we do not have consistent stellar leadership produced in political setup,its the politicians who do not believe in the concept of god,who wish to direct,how one ought to pray.Funny isnt it?I think you make lot of common sense,thank you.

sb
 
Nacchinarkiniyan said:
Generally it is an accepted practice that there should be a tri-kala puja at all temples. Morning, afternoon, and evening. The Pujas could be more. But tri-kala is the bare minimum. During these pujas upacharas are performed for the deity. Normally shodopachara or sixteen upacharas. Namavali and Karpura aarti are two of the upacharas.

In most of these cases only the sankalpa is different. The Namavali (Archanai) is common. Practices may differ but the common strain is that namavali is part of the tri-kala Puja.

The concept of archanai in Tamil Nadu took the namavali out of the tri-kala puja. It became an end by itself. Priests perform namavali throughout the day and show karpura aarthi. Again Karpura Arthi is to be performed only during the tri-kala puja.

In effect the entire Archanai business in Tamil Nadu temples is against laid down Agamic practices and not approved by any sasthras. This practice came into vogue to satisfy the devotees who paid money for the privilege.
Click to expand...

I have placed excerpts of your posting made earlier on this thread. Here you have explained that the archanai is a small excerpt taken from a larger puja process. If the original puja process was in Sanskrit for the past hundreds of years when we had so many tamil siddhars during that time, then why do we Tamil Brahmins or even any Hindu listen to anyone asking us to change over a different language now. Is it only to appease anyone's ambitions to look good in public eye or an aethist's eye? Or just because we have prove as someone who accepts change even if it has no rhyme or reason?


Nacchinarkiniyan said:
SV,

You were talking about Mantra/Sloka/Stotra.

Please see page 93 of Vishnu Sahasranama stotram By LIFCO, Madras. My old tattered book is 1967 edition. The difference between Japa and parayana are explained. Namavali does not come under Mantra Japa since we do not recite Rishi, Chandas and Devata or perform the requisite Nyasas. Temple archanas are Namavali.
Click to expand...

I guess you now have answer from your own quote that temple archanas were originally in Sanskrit in their tri-kala puja larger version. The reason for it being in sanskrit even when we had great tamil scholars and tamil siddhars for hundreds of years is something to be pondered before anyone who has limited knowledge of just a life time's experience or knowledge to decide with.

Just because we perform only a part of the larger version of the puja today as archana, why do we want to even remove the remaining partial goodness of using the right sound vibrations?

We do not ask an radio FM channel to transmit in MW or SW, because we understand it does not make sense. But, we talk about changing the sound, frequency and transmission principle of a greater technology that great souls of past have left behind as a tradition we can benefit from.
 
What is the great tradition we are talking about here? Conducting Archanais for earning money breaking the rules of the scriptures. There are many private temples founded by various Gurus in Tamil Nadu where this system of Archanai is not prevalent and a board displayed to that effect.

Quote me one source which says you can conduct only Namavali and Karpura Aarti throughout the day sometimes simultaneously by two or three different priests? Is this a great tradition?

Mantras are different from Namavali. Stotras and Studhis do not come under Mantras. That is why they do not require initiation and anyone including women can recite them.

The common man might say that the priest is reciting Mantras because he does not know. The question of sound and vibration does not arise here. Again how does a sloka or namavali written in the last two decades become more powerful the Thevaram reciting which countless have got Mukthi for centuries. Again do only sanskrit words have vibrations? Tamil words also have vibrations. There are a number of siddhas who have attained siddhi without knowing any Sanskrit mantras. Not only in Tamil Nadu but all over India.

There are mantras in many languages including Tamil. Mantras are also part of Buddhism, Sikhism and Jainism.
 
Nacchinarkiniyan said:
What is the great tradition we are talking about here? Conducting Archanais for earning money breaking the rules of the scriptures. There are many private temples founded by various Gurus in Tamil Nadu where this system of Archanai is not prevalent and a board displayed to that effect.

Quote me one source which says you can conduct only Namavali and Karpura Aarti throughout the day sometimes simultaneously by two or three different priests? Is this a great tradition?

Mantras are different from Namavali. Stotras and Studhis do not come under Mantras. That is why they do not require initiation and anyone including women can recite them.

The common man might say that the priest is reciting Mantras because he does not know. The question of sound and vibration does not arise here. Again how does a sloka or namavali written in the last two decades become more powerful the Thevaram reciting which countless have got Mukthi for centuries. Again do only sanskrit words have vibrations? Tamil words also have vibrations. There are a number of siddhas who have attained siddhi without knowing any Sanskrit mantras. Not only in Tamil Nadu but all over India.

There are mantras in many languages including Tamil. Mantras are also part of Buddhism, Sikhism and Jainism.
Click to expand...


I guess you need to look back at posts from you below to so there is some consistency of thoughts shared.

You started A case for tamil archanai. then you said it is not a correct practice by sahstras. Then you said it is a derivative from tri kala puja which is in sanskrit. Then you said bhakti is a form of worship where the devotee expects favors in return from God, and that is why bhaktas go to temples to worship. While I was saying bhakti is about unconditional love and not a barter system. Now you are saying the very basis of archanais is breaking the rules and to make money. You were saying earlier by changing archanai to tamil it will score points with other communities. Are you now saying you encourage further money making by changing the archanai to tamil so it will appeal to a larger audience?

I have said earlier that there are various forms of worship my salutations to each as it is their belief in God. So I don't have to quote examples to explain if the tradition of namavalis is great or not.

About mukthi, there have been many siddhars in the past in every part of India, they did not change the puja process for mortal reasons. As you said the process of shortening to namavalis itself has happened only in the last few decades. So why even pull them (siddhars) into this? Since you did, this is my view....they became great siddhars and also attained mukti because they did not run after pride, language, borders, money or favors from God. And not just because they recited any specific hymns in any specific language.
 
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