பிராமணன் என்றால் யார்?

[Naina_Marbus]

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The angst of the Tamil brahmin

In Tamil Nadu, the political narrative has been stridently anti-brahminical. Though brahmins have been away from politics, the Dravidian parties have always resorted to blaming everything on a purported "brahminical conspiracy". Modi is brahminical. Jayalalitha too is, but only for DMK and not for AIADMK. Centre's promotion of Sanskrit or Hindi is brahminical. Congress or BJP's anti-LTTE stand is brahminical. Market economy and globalisation are termed brahminical.

It is also routine for Tamil movies to depict brahmins in bad light. The theme of the recent movie, `Jeeva', is that a brahminical conspiracy is keeping talented non-brahmin cricket players from reaching the state team. A putative theory about brahmins suppressing nonbrahmins for the last 2,000 years and denying them education and other privileges has gained currency and is today taken for granted. No proof is required. No further research is required.

Even OBC violence on dalits across the state is explained in terms of brahminism, a term that implies that all evils of the caste system are because of brahmins and hence they and only they have to be held responsible for such vio lence.

Yet, the reality is very different. Though no statistical data is available, anecdotally ….brahmins have inter-married more than any other caste in Tamil Nadu.

There is no rancour or resorting to honour killing when inter-caste or inter-religious marriages happen. They have been at the forefront of preserving performing arts, heritage monuments and culture in the state and have done much to promote Tamil language and literature. They have contributed immensely to science, engineering, medicine and education in the state.

Politically excluded and socially reviled, what can the Tamil brahmins do to preserve their identity and yet feel secure within the social space in Tamil Nadu and India?
Brahmins are unlikely to demand any kind of reservation in education, job or political sphere. All they would look for is an amenable climate where they can, like other communities, contribute to the progress of the nation.In a liberal country , we would like communities such as Muslims, Christians, Parsis and Jains preserving their unique faith, tradition, customs, attire, language and practices. The same has to be extended to the brahmins of Tamil Nadu. They should be allowed to retain multiple identities -that of a brahmin, a Tamil and an Indian -with pride.

The political hate narrative in Tamil Nadu must change.

(And more than anything else, this business of self-hating and self-deprecation must cease - NM)

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/chennai/The-angst-of-the-Tamil-brahmin-Live-and-let-live/articleshow/45408151.cms

 

[Vaagmi]

The angst of the Tamil brahmin

In Tamil Nadu, the political narrative has been stridently anti-brahminical. Though brahmins have been away from politics, the Dravidian parties have always resorted to blaming everything on a purported "brahminical conspiracy". Modi is brahminical. Jayalalitha too is, but only for DMK and not for AIADMK. Centre's promotion of Sanskrit or Hindi is brahminical. Congress or BJP's anti-LTTE stand is brahminical. Market economy and globalisation are termed brahminical.

It is also routine for Tamil movies to depict brahmins in bad light. The theme of the recent movie, `Jeeva', is that a brahminical conspiracy is keeping talented non-brahmin cricket players from reaching the state team. A putative theory about brahmins suppressing nonbrahmins for the last 2,000 years and denying them education and other privileges has gained currency and is today taken for granted. No proof is required. No further research is required.

Even OBC violence on dalits across the state is explained in terms of brahminism, a term that implies that all evils of the caste system are because of brahmins and hence they and only they have to be held responsible for such vio lence.

Yet, the reality is very different. Though no statistical data is available, anecdotally ….brahmins have inter-married more than any other caste in Tamil Nadu.

There is no rancour or resorting to honour killing when inter-caste or inter-religious marriages happen. They have been at the forefront of preserving performing arts, heritage monuments and culture in the state and have done much to promote Tamil language and literature. They have contributed immensely to science, engineering, medicine and education in the state.

Politically excluded and socially reviled, what can the Tamil brahmins do to preserve their identity and yet feel secure within the social space in Tamil Nadu and India?
Brahmins are unlikely to demand any kind of reservation in education, job or political sphere. All they would look for is an amenable climate where they can, like other communities, contribute to the progress of the nation.In a liberal country , we would like communities such as Muslims, Christians, Parsis and Jains preserving their unique faith, tradition, customs, attire, language and practices. The same has to be extended to the brahmins of Tamil Nadu. They should be allowed to retain multiple identities -that of a brahmin, a Tamil and an Indian -with pride.

The political hate narrative in Tamil Nadu must change.

(And more than anything else, this business of self-hating and self-deprecation must cease - NM)

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/chennai/The-angst-of-the-Tamil-brahmin-Live-and-let-live/articleshow/45408151.cms

A possible solution can be to file a petition in the human rights forum or supreme court praying for declaration of the Tamil Brahmins as a minority in India and giving them entitlement to minority rights guaranteed in the constittution (like Parsis and Muslims and christians and Anglo Indians).

 

[கால பைரவன்]

A possible solution can be to file a petition in the human rights forum or supreme court praying for declaration of the Tamil Brahmins as a minority in India and giving them entitlement to minority rights guaranteed in the constittution (like Parsis and Muslims and christians and Anglo Indians).

Vaagmi Sir, You have left out Buddhists, Jains, and Sikhs who are also minorities. The Lingayats in Karnataka have been wanting minority status - not sure they were successful.

 

[sarang]

In a liberal country , we would like communities such as Muslims, Christians, Parsis and Jains preserving their unique faith, tradition, customs, attire, language and practices. The same has to be extended to the brahmins of Tamil Nadu. They should be allowed to retain multiple identities -that of a brahmin, a Tamil and an Indian -with pride.

let brahmins be brahmins; that is enough. there is no need for any political patronage. self respect, pride, learning and practice are enough. it is an added bonus if 'brahmin reformers' who have sold their souls find some other religious or irreligious community for improvement.

 

[sarang]

Ramakrishna mission wanted minority status as non hindus, but supreme court threw their case out with choice harsh words.

Vaagmi Sir, You have left out Buddhists, Jains, and Sikhs who are also minorities. The Lingayats in Karnataka have been wanting minority status - not sure they were successful.

 

[psnarasimhan]

A possible solution can be to file a petition in the human rights forum or supreme court praying for declaration of the Tamil Brahmins as a minority in India and giving them entitlement to minority rights guaranteed in the constittution (like Parsis and Muslims and christians and Anglo Indians).

Everything is ok. But who is to bell the cat?

 

[psnarasimhan]

A possible solution can be to file a petition in the human rights forum or supreme court praying for declaration of the Tamil Brahmins as a minority in India and giving them entitlement to minority rights guaranteed in the constittution (like Parsis and Muslims and christians and Anglo Indians).

Every thing is OK. But who is to bell the cat?

 

[sarang]

same topic discussed in another forum. one complaint is 90% of the test and first class cricketeers are brahmins. one reply was - yes, there is no reservation.

(And more than anything else, this business of self-hating and self-deprecation must cease - NM)

 

[sarang]

admission to law colleges is impossible to tambrams. they get admission in 8 odd central law schools. selected by corporate firms with decent perks.

 

[psnarasimhan]

இது எப்படி என்றால் யானை தன் தலையில் தானே மண்ணை வாரி போட்டு கொள்வதுபோ ல..

 

[psnarasimhan]

admission to law colleges is impossible to tambrams. they get admission in 8 odd central law schools. selected by corporate firms with decent perks.

Even then there are no brahmin advocates in Tamilnadu.

 

[Naina_Marbus]

இது எப்படி என்றால் யானை தன் தலையில் தானே மண்ணை வாரி போட்டு கொள்வதுபோ ல..

Could you please explain what does this "இது" refer to? I mean to what poster/posting/phrase does it refer? Without a context, it is like மொட்டைத்தாதன் குட்டையில் விழுந்தான்.

 

[BRAHMACHARI]

if the brahmin community is deteriorating, decaying, degenerating, suffering, troubled, persecuted, i and only i am responsible. no other brahmin, not even other brahmin members in this forum. what am i doing? i am only murmuring and complaining. at best i am posting some comment in this forum defending our community. i am doing nothing else for the community.

 

[sarang]

I thought richard rahul sharma is the new US ambassador to India. He is richard rahul verma. ex US brahmins have lost in this case too!

 

[psnarasimhan]

same topic discussed in another forum. one complaint is 90% of the test and first class cricketeers are brahmins. one reply was - yes, there is no reservation.

why should we tell that there is no reservation in cricket. Who knows that the brahmin haters may raise the banner to bring in reservation in cricket also.My ITHU is 'yes,there is no reservation'

 

[vs_ramki1950]

இந்த கதை எல்லாம் இங்கே ஆகாது.ஒங்க ஸர்டிஃபிகேட்ல என்ன இருக்கு அதான் செல்லுபடியாகும் .மத்த
ஜாதி காரங்கள் எல்லாம் சாஸ்திரத்தில சொல்லிஇருக்கிர படியா இருக்காங்க.இல்லியே. அப்போ அவங்கள
எப்படி அந்த ஜாதிய சேந்தவங்கன்னு ஒத்துகிரோம். அதே போலத்தான் இதுவும்.
கண்ணனும் ,ராமனும் ப்ரஹ்மனர்கள் இல்லை.இப்போ எந்த ஜாதி காரனும் அந்த ஜாதியோட தன்மையில் இல்லை.
சர்வம் சிவ மயம்.சர்வம் சிவார்ப்பணம்.

 

[BRAHMACHARI]

இந்த கதை எல்லாம் இங்கே ஆகாது.ஒங்க ஸர்டிஃபிகேட்ல என்ன இருக்கு அதான் செல்லுபடியாகும் .மத்த
ஜாதி காரங்கள் எல்லாம் சாஸ்திரத்தில சொல்லிஇருக்கிர படியா இருக்காங்க.இல்லியே. அப்போ அவங்கள
எப்படி அந்த ஜாதிய சேந்தவங்கன்னு ஒத்துகிரோம். அதே போலத்தான் இதுவும்.
கண்ணனும் ,ராமனும் ப்ரஹ்மனர்கள் இல்லை.இப்போ எந்த ஜாதி காரனும் அந்த ஜாதியோட தன்மையில் இல்லை.
சர்வம் சிவ மயம்.சர்வம் சிவார்ப்பணம்.

but others are not concerned about their caste. a chettiar is not concerned who a chettiar is, a nadar is not concerned who a nadar is, a gounder is not concerned who a gounder is etc. there is no tamil chettiars forum, no tamil nadars forum, no tamil gounders forum. they are not fighting for any rights. others are not sidelined, vindicted, victimised.

why are we brahmins worshipping kannan and raman as gods if they are not brahmins but kshatriyas, inferior to brahmins.

 

[கால பைரவன்]

but others are not concerned about their caste. a chettiar is not concerned who a chettiar is, a nadar is not concerned who a nadar is, a gounder is not concerned who a gounder is etc. there is no tamil chettiars forum, no tamil nadars forum, no tamil gounders forum. they are not fighting for any rights. others are not sidelined, vindicted, victimised.

But there are many Nadar Sangams, Chettiar clubs, and Gounder Peravais. An internet forum is not the only means for a community to organize. You may be oblivious to the existence of such groups. To what extent members of each of these groups are "concerned" about their caste may not be known to you. But all these does not mean that they are "not concerned".

There may be a few reasons why we see these repeated attempts to define or redefine who a Brahmin is. Sometimes it is a means to discredit members of this forum. Sometimes it is done for a feel good factor; kind of a reaction to the "attacks" heaped on brahmins in the name of "criticism" .

If as you say, members come to this forum because they feel sidelined and victimised and they are here to fight for their rights, then these attempts are not helpful at all. It is best to stick to what Vs_ramki has suggested.

But this forum is a open-for-all forum and not just restricted to Brahmins, which you should surely know. So the recurrence of these types of topics is unavoidable.

why are we brahmins worshipping kannan and raman as gods if they are not brahmins but kshatriyas, inferior to brahmins.

The Brahmins who worship Kannan and Raman may not view them in varna or caste terms or even if they do they might not view them as inferior to Brahmins.

 

[BRAHMACHARI]

But there are many Nadar Sangams, Chettiar clubs, and Gounder Peravais. An internet forum is not the only means for a community to organize. You may be oblivious to the existence of such groups. To what extent members of each of these groups are "concerned" about their caste may not be known to you. But all these does not mean that they are "not concerned".

There may be a few reasons why we see these repeated attempts to define or redefine who a Brahmin is. Sometimes it is a means to discredit members of this forum. Sometimes it is done for a feel good factor; kind of a reaction to the "attacks" heaped on brahmins in the name of "criticism" .

If as you say, members come to this forum because they feel sidelined and victimised and they are here to fight for their rights, then these attempts are not helpful at all. It is best to stick to what Vs_ramki has suggested.

But this forum is a open-for-all forum and not just restricted to Brahmins, which you should surely know. So the recurrence of these types of topics is unavoidable.



The Brahmins who worship Kannan and Raman may not view them in varna or caste terms or even if they do they might not view them as inferior to Brahmins.

dear sir,

i am aware of the existence of these groups. you may add 'nagarathar sangam' also in this list. but they have attached their caste names to their forums only to reveal the caste-identity of their groups. they do not exist to establish their caste or advocate for their cause etc. on the contrary they serve indiscriminately. while they confine receipt of contributions from among members of their group, their offer of service is to all.

someone in this forum accused us of being possessed with superiority complex, ego, of being exclusive etc. although i disagree with that person in part, i cannot help introspecting if these have played havoc with our community without our own consciousness.

 

[கால பைரவன்]

dear sir,

....but they have attached their caste names to their forums only to reveal the caste-identity of their groups. they do not exist to establish their caste or advocate for their cause etc. on the contrary they serve indiscriminately.

I think you are off the mark here and am not able to agree with you.

However, you are perfectly at liberty to wish this out of this or any other brahmin forum.

Thank you sir!

 

[L. Ramakrishnan]

I have just seen the OP. For me it is interesting. All human beings have potential to be a Brahmin. One's Brahminical nature Ψ is determined by the extent to which he/she has imbibed the characteristics of a Brahmin described in the Upanishads...Ψ = aψ[SUB]1[/SUB] + bψ[SUB]2[/SUB] + cψ[SUB]3[/SUB] + dψ[SUB]4[/SUB]+……………………………..It appears that the brahminical nature of every individual can vary from 0 to 1, 1 being the ultimate.

It also appears that attributing "brahminical nature" by birth is contrary to the Upanishadic teachings. The socio-economic-political issues that we have been struggling with due to the birth based tag of a "brahmin" need to be addressed in the same domain rather than in an Upanishadic domain. What we have been facing in the socio-economic-political domain is bound to continue for sometime till the exploitation of such a stand by groups and political entities have a natural death due to diminishing returns.

In the meanwhile we can strive to stand by what the Upanishad says !