தமிழன் யார்?

[Jambu]

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Yesterday i saw message painted on a wall by Seeman group proclaiming தமிழனுக்கு இல்லை சாதியும் மதமும். But who is தமிழன் for them. People living in Tamil Nadu Or Tamil speaking people living any where on the globe Do they include people whose mother tongue is Tamil but not comfortable with this Language due to their stay outside Tamil Nadu for more than a generation. But they talk of Tamil Race தமிழினம் .who are all part of தமிழினம்?
Jambu:crazy:

 

[renuka]

Yesterday i saw message painted on a wall by Seeman group proclaiming தமிழனுக்கு இல்லை சாதியும் மதமும். But who is தமிழன் for them. People living in Tamil Nadu Or Tamil speaking people living any where on the globe Do they include people whose mother tongue is Tamil but not comfortable with this Language due to their stay outside Tamil Nadu for more than a generation. But they talk of Tamil Race தமிழினம் .who are all part of தமிழினம்?
Jambu:crazy:

Well..to define a Tamilian...
Ok I stay in Malaysia..(citizen)..
My father is a tamilian..
That makes my "fathertongue" Tamil..
I speak Tamil..Read and write Tamil(to a certain extent)
DNA--I carry Tamilian Genes too
So I am surely Tamilian...
When I was younger..if I am travelling anywhere and happen to bump into a fellow Tamilian..I used to feel a little excited..
Nowdays ...I dont want to feel that way..I want to see all as the same...Its not easy to do that..but its worth the try..
Than we will appreciate GOD's creation even more..
I want to identify myself as a Manava child of Madhava..

 

[Nara]

Well..
DNA--I carry Tamilian Genes too So I am surely Tamilian...

Unlike Brahminical literature, original Tamil literature is free of discriminatory ideas. However, Tamils are not free of Jati curse. We see that everyday, கைப்புண்ணுக்கு கண்ணாடி is not needed. Politically motivated Tamil supremacists are somewhat like the caste-based supremacists they decry.

Who is a pure Tamil? To me, any who fashions their lives by what PoongunRanaar said some 2000 yeras ago is a Tamilian. The first line of this verse is very famous, but it is the last two lines that amazes me to no end. A good understanding of these two lines will free us from the hero-worship and the foolish superstitions that come with it. Respecting our heroes, gurus, and acharyas can be accomplished without resorting to telling of tall tales and oneupmanship in acharya bhakti.

யாதும் ஊரே யாவரும் கேளீர்
தீதும் நன்றும் பிரர்தர வாரா
நோதலும் தணிதலும் அவற்றோரன்ன
சாதலும் புதுவது அன்றே; வாழ்தல்
இனிது என மகிழ்ந்தன்றும் இலமே, மின்னொடு
வானம் தண்துளி தலைஇ ஆனது
கல்பொருது இரங்கும் மல்லற் பேர்யாற்று
நீர்வழிப் படூஉம் என்பது திறவோர்
காட்சியின் தெளிந்தனம் ஆகலின், மாட்சியின்
பெரியோரை வியத்தலும் இலமே;
சிறியோரை இகழ்தல் அதனினும் இலமே.

---- கணியன் பூங்குன்றனார்

Thiruvalluvar expresses a similar sentiment in #310 under Vegulamai:

செல் இடத்து காப்பான் சினம் காப்பான் அல் இடத்துக்
காக்கின் என் காவாக்கால் என்.

Forget the likes of seeman who are motivated by anger. We all are Tamils first, then only we belong a particular caste that is euphemistically called community.

Cheers!

 

[pannvalan]

Tamilian is the term used to collectively describe -

(a) Whose mother tongue is Tamil, regardless of their place of birth and/or living
(by mother tongue, as per definition, we mean the language the mother had
spoken to the child or the first language learnt by the child)

(b) All of those who live in Tamilnadu and love to speak in Tamil

(c) All of those who speak Tamil at home with each other

(d) All of those who claim they are Tamilians and who have a natural liking for the
language and its culture

(e) Those who do not change their identity, like a chameleon, depending on the place,
situation and context, either out of fear or in anticipation of certain favours by
doing so

On the other hand -

Those who proudly proclaim that they or their children do not know Tamil cannot be Tamilians, even if they are of Tamil origin.

Those who mock at Tamil, by eulogizing other languages cannot be called Tamils.

Those who know Tamil but adopt a totally different lifestyle (either consciously discarding the cultural identity or having lost touch with the ethnic roots) cannot
be called Tamilians.

Those who have turned modern (euphemism for western) and changed their beliefs, values and ethics, to suit their present condition and ridicule the other Tamilians by calling them rustic, archaic, stereotyped, conservative and culturally rigid can never be labeled Tamils, by any stretch of imagination.

Those who are married into families of others - in terms of language and ethnicity, shall not be allowed to call themselves 'Tamils'.

 

[renuka]

Tamilian is the term used to collectively describe -

(a) Whose mother tongue is Tamil, regardless of their place of birth and/or living
(by mother tongue, as per definition, we mean the language the mother had
spoken to the child or the first language learnt by the child)

(b) All of those who live in Tamilnadu and love to speak in Tamil

(c) All of those who speak Tamil at home with each other

(d) All of those who claim they are Tamilians and who have a natural liking for the
language and its culture

(e) Those who do not change their identity, like a chameleon, depending on the place,
situation and context, either out of fear or in anticipation of certain favours by
doing so

On the other hand -

Those who proudly proclaim that they or their children do not know Tamil cannot be Tamilians, even if they are of Tamil origin.

Those who mock at Tamil, by eulogizing other languages cannot be called Tamils.

Those who know Tamil but adopt a totally different lifestyle (either consciously discarding the cultural identity or having lost touch with the ethnic roots) cannot
be called Tamilians.

Those who have turned modern (euphemism for western) and changed their beliefs, values and ethics, to suit their present condition and ridicule the other Tamilians by calling them rustic, archaic, stereotyped, conservative and culturally rigid can never be labeled Tamils, by any stretch of imagination.

Those who are married into families of others - in terms of language and ethnicity, shall not be allowed to call themselves 'Tamils'.

Wow...thats really rigid...
Too much identification or too little identification with ones own roots are not really healthy...
We should be happy with what we are but not too rigid as Pride breeds Prejudice...

After all didnt Aadishankaraachraya say;

Mano Buddhi Ahankara Chitta Ninaham
Nacha Shrotra Jihve Na Cha Ghrana Netre
Nacha Vyoma Bhoomir Na Tejo Na Vayu
Chidananda Rupa Shivoham Shivoham


dont know why i seem to be qouting Aadishankaraacharya today..already twice in this forum...
Dont know why... I woke up with this line playing in my head..
I am listening to Pandit Jasraj too much off late..
He sings well..

listen to this..really nice...

YouTube - CHIDANANDA ROOPAH SHIVOHAM by Pandit Jasraj Shiv Upasana Vol 3

 

[pvraman]

தமிழனுக்கு இல்லை சாதியும் மதமும்.

I think according to him, only malaivaasiyum, kaattu vaasiyum (thamil naattil irukkira malai and kaadu) are the only true tamils (Because they are the only one who does not have madhamum saadhiyum). சமீப திருச்சி மதுரை விசிட், தமிழ் நாடு, மக்களின் போக்கு அதிர்ச்சி அளிப்பதாக இருக்கிறது. பல டிகேடுகளுக்கு, முன்னர் மக்களிடம் இருந்த மெல்லிய தோலுக்கு என்ன ஆயிற்று?

:tsk:

 

[aramakrishnan1]

Seeman is re-igniting the Dravidar kazhagam propaganda. He will bring in anti-Brahminism in all the topics. In my opinion, he is sponsored by the Christian propaganda missionary, but he hides it. Brahmins are not a substantial vote bank and no political party will defend the Brahmins and hence he talks whatever that comes to his mind. He reiterates the same old false theory of "Aryan Invasion of Dravidian land" and want to declare that Brahmins are not Tamizhar. We don't need his certificate.

 

[aramakrishnan1]

Nowadays the missionaries are spreading stories that Tribals are not Hindus. They say that the Tribals were never Hindus and all this is done to bring them to the fold of Christianity. Recently, a German delegation came to Gujarat and blamed the CM to be acting as a dictator. The delegation was sent by a missionary group to audit how their money is spent to convert tribals to Christianity. The visiting delegation was frustrated by the law enacted by the Guj. govt. banning religious conversions by trivial means. All the money being spent by the missionary is going in vain in Gujarat as the govt. is not letting that happen.
Now the attempt of Seeman to spread his propaganda that Tamilians are not belonging to any religion (meaning Hindus) is on the same lines. If someone beleives the propaganda and thinks that he does not belong to any religion, he will fall prey to the soul harvesting companies.

 

[nachi naga]

tamizhan enbavar,tamizh karru arindavar.engal thanthaya nadenra paychinalay varum inbha thane vandu payudhu kadhunilay..chenthamizh nadaennum podhinilay inbha....

 

[Iyyarooraan]

Thamizhai Tamizhal arindavan Tamizhan. Avan vazhi vanda thamizhariyaada selvangalum Tamilzharkale. Thamizhai Thami'zh' enru sollamudiyada Tamizharkalum Thamizhare. Thamizuhukkum Thamizharkalukkum ooru seybavargal Thamizharallar. Thamizhaal vaazhkai nadathum koottangalum Thamizare. Enseyvadu kuttram thamizhinudayadualla. Aththamizharkaludayadu.

 

[pvraman]

Seeman is a மாவோயிஸ்ட்.

 

[pannvalan]

As per the definition of Dravidian parties -

1. Tamilians are those who are all NBs, even if they don't speak Tamil at home.

2. Tamilians are those who do not practise Hindu religion, at least outwardly, because
it is a symbol of Aryan invasion.

3. Tamilians are those who cannot speak Tamil words properly, write Tamil properly and cannot live
strictly according to the tenets of Tamil literature esp. Thirukkural.

4. Tamil literature does not include those writings of truly secular Tamils, who happened to be Brahmins by birth (e.g. Bharathi).

5. Tamils may include a Kannada Balija (EVR), Kamma Naidu (Arcot Veerasamy, KKSSR et al), but not Tamil Brahmins.

6. Tamils are those who once told "Vadavargal nammavargal allar; nallavargalum allar" but make it a point to have alliance with such north based parties at the centre, for family benefits.

7. Tamils mean those opportunists who are of the firm belief that one can do anything and get away with it, because public memory is short.

8. Tamils are those who can have more than one spouse (on Islamic lines) and still talk about "Tamil culture", 'Tamizhargalin Karpu Vazhkai" etc.

9. Tamils are those who barter the Tamils interests with neighbouring states, for the sake of family business interests.

10. Tamils are those who support dynastic rule, if it benefits oneself and oppose it, if it benefits some others than oneself.

 

[pvraman]

செந்தமிழ் நாடென்னும் போதினிலே,

பட்ட பகலில் தண்ணி அடித்து விட்டு, வேஷ்டி எங்கு போகிறது என்று கூட தெரியாமல் தெருவில் zig zag ஆக அலப்பரை செய்கிறதும்,

சாயந்தரம் ஆனால் டாஸ்மாக்கே கதியாகவும்,

படிக்கற போது, சினிமாவை சரணடைந்தும் , அரசியல் வியாதிகளின் கைப்பாவையாகவும், 60வது ஆண்டுகளானாலும், பல சக மனிதர்கள் இன்னும் பிச்சைகாரர்களாக இருப்பதும், கலாச்சாரத்தை விடாமல் அதை சட்டை செய்யாமல் இருப்பதும், விசிலடித்தான் குஞ்சுகளாகவே காலத்தை களிப்பதும்

இதெல்லாம் பாரம்பரிய தமிழ் கலாச்சாரம் பண்பாடு என்று மகுடிக்கு ஆடுவதும்

நம்ம தமிழர்களே.

அவர்கள் தான் சீமானின் சேனை.

 

[nachi naga]

aha pannvalan,pvr,neengal yengayyo poiteenglay saar

kannada balija evr udan,kannada vaishnavavatchi ayyangar-aachi dr.jj yum serthu kollungal,en yendral gundu pushnikkai drishti pariharam kannada naadu namakku kodutha anballippu

 

[Jambu]

Dear Pannvalan
You have hit the nail on the Head This is exactly the தமிழன் of Dravidan parties and their sympathizers. They have another தமிழன். பச்சை தமிழன் . Who is he?:target:

 

[pannvalan]

'Pachchai Thamizhan' yaarendru kettal -

1. When Dayanidhi Maran was made M.P. directly, without any experience in the
party, MK told, "I need someone I can trust or rely on, to talk to powers that be in
New Delhi". It meant that Dayanidhi Maran knew Hindi and anti-Hindi agitation
that spoiled an entire generation of Tamil students did not apply to his family.
So, Dayanidhi Maran is a 'Pachchai Thamizhan'.

2. M. K. Azhagiri studied Sanskrit in his high school at Mylapore, as per the verbal
account given by one of his classmates. So, M. K. Azhagiri is a 'Pachchai
Thamizhan'.

3. Dr. Anbumani Ramadoss' daughter was studying in a New Delhi school, taking Hindi
as her second language. (Thuglak published a detailed account of this, a few
years ago, raising a huge controversy). So, Anbumani Ramadoss is also a
'Pachchai Thamizhan'.

4. Idhu thavira, many relatives of M.K. who live in Tirumala/Tirupathi speak Telugu
at home. They are engaged in their traditional/hereditary occupation. They are
all 'Pachchai Thamizhar' thaan!

 

[Jambu]

In these posters they have suggested to register as தமிழன் in the census to be enumerated soon in columns regarding religion etc. Is it possible? Jambu

 

[pannvalan]

I can't get you. Who suggested this and what could be the relationship between language and religion?

 

[Jambu]

In the poster தமிழனுக்கு ஜாதி இல்லை மதமும் இல்லை that has cropped up in few places here has suggested that. Jambu

 

[pannvalan]

If such fools write 'Thamizhan' against the column 'religion', what will they write against the column 'mother tongue/language'?

Actually, in the eyes of these self-proclaimed leaders, only BC/SC/ST are Tamils and all FCs like Brahmins, Saiva Pillais, Mudaliars and Chettiars are non-Tamils. Of these, except Brahmins, Saiva Pillais and Naattukottai Chettiars (Karaikudi), the rest manage to get themselves classified under any of the sub-groups of BC.

I'm sure their own clans will reject the prescription given by these 'leaders' and boldly declare themselves to be Hindus in the census under way.

Another thing is, their ploy will come to the fore (vetta velicham agi vidum/ambalam agum), if many write 'atheist/irreligious' against the religion column. For, the numerical strength of the so called Suna. Maanas (euphemism for non-believers) will be known to the entire world. Let them dig their own grave. Yellaame iraivanin chithu vilayattu andro?

 

[sapthajihva]

Very good explanations, for 'tamizhan' and 'pacchai tamizhan' by shri pannvalan; I thoroughly enjoyed it...

:evil:... it should be posted in some dravidian forums... as a 'tamizh putthandu parisu'...

 

[Jambu]

Very good explanations, for 'tamizhan' and 'pacchai tamizhan' by shri pannvalan; I thoroughly enjoyed it...

:evil:... it should be posted in some dravidian forums... as a 'tamizh putthandu parisu'...

Dear

But தமிழனக்கு இல்லை புத்தாண்டு இன்று. Panvalan has given the correct explanation you can give this parisu on Thai Pongal J:kiss:Jambu

 

[sapthajihva]

Dear

But தமிழனக்கு இல்லை புத்தாண்டு இன்று. Panvalan has given the correct explanation you can give this parisu on Thai Pongal J:kiss:Jambu

:becky:... as today is new year for people like us, we can honour the 'pacchai tamizhan' by giving a parisu today... but if 'pacchai tamizhan' is so stubborn, then maybe, the trick is to make it a belated wishes for this year's thai pongal...

 

[nachi naga]

:becky:... as today is new year for people like us, we can honour the 'pacchai tamizhan' by giving a parisu today... but if 'pacchai tamizhan' is so stubborn, then maybe, the trick is to make it a belated wishes for this year's thai pongal...

:ear: best pudu varusham greetings for me,thank you guy's:kiss:

 

[pvraman]

In these posters they have suggested to register as தமிழன் in the census to be enumerated soon in columns regarding religion etc. Is it possible? Jambu

I think it should not be a problem, in AP, they will write Telugu, and in Karnataka they will write kannadiga, in Kerala they will write malayali, eventually the header of the column will be changed from Religion to mother tongue.

:frog:.