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  1. #31
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    TBTji,

    Please go ahead with your presentation. There are people here who are able to make out meaning out of your posts.

    It is not the topic/subject or the idea that you present that is not understandable. It is only the process sequence or language that is somewhat distracting. But it requires only an appropriate filter circuit to cut the clutter and understand the signal. These are things which can be understood better in a one to one conversation than through a series of posts here. But given the fact that you are writing here, we try to understand.

    Every fact here in this world is subject to the constraints imposed by the benign circumstances. For instance every "finite" measurement is subject to the all pervading gravitational field in which it is measured and the laws postulated. Then we also have the micro and macro realities to contend with.

    It appears the vedas are from an altogether different "time". (time within quotes because even the nature of time might have been different in those "times"--like being not uni-directional always etc.,). And we have another issue to contend with viz., "vedas speak eternal truth".

    It is just a given situation which we are trying to interpret with inadequate scales. But it has to be done.

    I wish you well. Thanks. Please continue.

    If we can make out what Kamal Hassan says about politics and if we can make out what Vijaykant tries to convey with his sound bytes, we can try to understand anyone in this world. LOL.

    That is for someone here who eagerly looks forward to my LOL always. LORL.
    Giving someone a piece of your soul is better than giving a piece of your heart. Because souls are eternal. --Helen Boswell
  2. #32
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    From the scientific point of view I wonder why the Shiva Principle (Energy as TBT calls it) has sons but the Vishnu principle (Mass/ Inertia in classical world according to TBT ) does not have sons!

    Why is the Vishnu principle not having progeny?
    What could be the problem here.
    Since its all physics..protons..photons..decipticons..
    leprichauns..so infertility is out of the question because it was the Vishnu principle which impregnated Hiranyagarbha...

    I do hope the Vishnu principle had consent from.Hiranyagarbha before the act of creation..otherwise legal hassles!

    I hope TBT can clear my doubts.

    Vaagmi ji too can give his inputs from the Vaishnava point of view.
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  4. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by zebra16 View Post
    I have studied vEdas, pUrANams, upaniSads etc. in the traditional way and have given about 20 years to its study.

    I do not intend/never intended to make fun of our shAstrAs,but you should know that they speak in metaphorical way, especially the purANams. For example, do you know if the skanda purANam is to be literally taken into account, the surface area of the earth is manifold times than what it actually is..? Do you know that agni purANam says that Indra cut off the wings of the mountains so that they cannot fly..?

    Yes, there is a lot (or bits) of scientific knowledge in our vEdam and purANams. For example, metals like gold, iron, copper, lead etc. were known right from the times of Rg vEda and yajur vEda (I will be happy to provide exact extracts from vEdic portions), but you will never find the process they adopted to extract and separate these basic metals in any of the vEdam or purANams. I will be very glad if you could guide me to the relevant portions, if you know.

    The truth of the matter is such knowledge is not encapsulated in the vEdams/purANams that we have preserved by rote memory and it mostly is lost.

    If we are to achieve greatness in science and technology field by expanding knowledge base contained in our scriptures, then we must do a lot of hard work at the roots, rather than giving creative interpretations and force fitting conclusions to the premise or the set of assumptions we start with.

    But then, rather than re-inventing the wheel, will it not be more beneficial to find ways to give more momentum to the wheel so that we can progress faster..?
    Yes ofcourse.

    Hard-work at the roots and 'creative' interpretations are our perceptions. For eg. in the frame-work that I am discussing, I know the 'hard-work' at roots that has gone over a decade and the consistency the framework gives in interpreting the Rg Vedic slokas etc. So it's for me to take care that I don't give a light-handed interpretation if I have to be taken seriously.

    But for the metal part read this:

    http://vedabhasya.blogspot.in/2015/0...-31-mitra.html


    -TBT
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  6. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by zebra16 View Post
    For my primer, I would like to concentrate just on this para and would be grateful for your responses/elucidations:

    TBT: Shiva is energy.

    My Q: I have been given to believe (no doubt by the purANams, vEdAs, explanatory notes by AchAryas etc. that SivA is actually inert. In fact the very first stanza in Soundarya lahiri attributed to Adi Sankara says "Siva SaktyA yuktO yadi Bhavathi SaktaH praBhavitum; na chE devam devO na khalu khushalaH spanditum api"..

    meaning as I understand samskrutam is that without union of Sakthi, even an atom cannot move and Siva is referred to as inert entity requiring association of Sakthi to do anything. This aspect is told and re-told in many purANams in various forms like the entire universe resting "at state" on completion of one yugam and requires prompting from Sakthi to re-start the process of creation etc. after one pralayam.

    So, if Siva is "energy" why does he need the momentum of Sakthi to propel into action..?

    TBT: Their ("real particles" as real as in Quantum physics) is limited to velocity of light.

    My Q: This pre-supposes a couple of things. Velocity of light was measured as also velocity of certain other objects to make a comparison that velocity of light was the fastest. From which shAstram do you get this info..? If velocity of light was measured in some units, what is the unit and what are the velocities of other objects that were compared to arrive at the conclusion that light was the fastest..?

    TBT: Energy is characterized by momentum.

    My Q: Is that so in all cases..? Then what is "latent energy", "potent energy", "potential energy" etc..? How is the character of these energies different from momentous energy..?

    Would be thankful for your elucidations.
    1. What is 'Energy'..? Can we define it..?

    Actually Sankara defines it. He says Energy (Shiva) is that which is in Union with Sakthi (Momentum) always and without Sakthi cannot even 'spandita'. spandita is pulsate. If Sakthi is not there, there is no pulsation 'even'. Pulsation is the symbol of energy. There is no pulsation, there is no energy. But without sakthi there is no pulsation even.

    This spandita/pulsation is the Momentum of the Energy. It is caused by the 'Momentum' of energy.

    In that case we can call it only shakti (momentum). Why do we need Shiva (energy).?

    But Shankara answers it in the first line itself. It is because of Union with Shakti, Shiva becomes capable (shakta) of shining (prabhavit). Shiva shines because of Shakti. Since this shining creates the world, some people interpret it as Shiva creates the world because of Shakti.

    Whatever that Shines (creates worlds) is Shiva. What that pulsates is Shakti.

    Shiva's effect is gross/sthula or visible outside. Shiva Shines/Creates the world.
    Shakti is subtle, internal property. Momentum causes the pulsation. It is sukshma.

    2. There is a 'concept' called 'On-shell' in Quantum physics. Particles 'on-shell' are real. They travel at or below velocity of light. They travel forward in time. They obey laws as we know them. They satisfy the Energy-Momentum Relationship. They lie on the 'Hyperboloid' of Energy-Momentum relationship.

    We have a Concept of Lingam. Linga is the hyperboloid. What lies on the Linga is real, on-shell. All the Universe emerges from the Linga. All the Universe merges back into Linga.

    The point here is about 'real' particles, the particles that make the Universe as we know, that originate from EM relationship (Linga), satisfy the EM relationship (Linga).

    3. Latent energy, potential energy are terms used in classical domain. They are also characterized by Momentum of particles that make them up for sure.

    -TBT



    In quantum physics what is Energy in the world without mass..? E = pc. P is momentum.
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  8. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigthinkg View Post
    I did not mean to ridicule the 'PhD'. But PhD also does not signify anything to me. What I write is not any research grade science and anyone can easily find faults, if they can.

    I explained how mass is energy density created by higgs very clearly. I also shared a video to explain space and time in layman terms. You (or your post-doctoral PhD) are free to point out what’s wrong. Then there is a discussion.

    You are absolutely right in that any two disparate and independent events can be correlated. That correlation may need to nothing but our imagination. But lets say when there is a strong correlation, then it mean something.

    What am i doing?

    In my view Vedas are Cosmic science mis-interpreted into history, philosophy, spirituality etc. This is the reason for so many conundrums that we are witnessing in Vedic translations which leads to bizarre scenarios.

    I am working on a 'frame-work' to understand the vedic sloka in Quantum physics view for almost the last decade. Why I am into it, I don't know. Initially I was greatly skeptical and thought that these slokas may just be blabbering of some soma drunk seers. But as I travelled though, I found a lot of consistency in the framework that I was developing.

    Meanwhile I put up parts of them in sites like this to get feedback and fine-tune apart from sharing it with scholars for their feedback

    The crux is this.

    Shiva is Energy. Shakti is momentum. Energy is characterized by momentum. Hence Shiva-Shakti is ardha-nareeswara. The relationship between Shiva(Energy) and Shakti (Momentum) is a hyperboloid, which is the Linga. All 'real' particles (real as in quantum physics) lie on the Linga and are called On-Shell. Their velocity is limited to velocity of light, they travel only forward in time. There are particles that do not lie on linga, which are called Virtual, Off-shell.

    Hiranyagarbha, the golden uterus is spacetime, which is four-dimensional. Time is actually fourth dimension of space, but hidden. This Hiranyagarbha expands and becomes Brahma, the inflated spacetime, which standard model says happened in the early universe.

    On this Brahma, the expanded spacetime manifests force-fields called the Rudras. Strong, Weak, Electromagnetic, Electro-weak, Higgs, Dirac-fermi are different force-fields which have 'shiva' /energy in them. These fields can be Scalar (made of foam, kSir sAgar), Spinor (conch), Vector (Wheel). Higgs is a scalar field, which means it has no direction and fixed value (like a static foamy ocean). In vector fields when energy keeps bubbling up and down. When it goes up above a limit, it manifests as a 'particle' that we observe.

    Higgs field impedes particles with energy and stops their movement. It creates an energy density in a specific spacetime co-ordinates and this is what we see as mass. This property of mass is Vishnu.

    Brahma (spacetime) 'bends' to Shiva (energy) and Vishnu (energy density/mass) and hence is called ka-ancha, one who bends. This is called spacetime warping, which we know as gravity.

    It goes on and on like this.. If interested read my series http://vedabhasya.blogspot.in.

    no need to buy. just enjoy 😀

    TBT
    Dear Mr TBT:

    Did not take your comment as a ridicule - I was just trying to educate and give more information. A degree by itself means not much. But if a person publishes original research work in peer reviewed publications with high reputation that is a big deal to me. I have never done any such things.

    Now writing something here or in one's own blog is not a publication LOL

    You claim you see strong correlation. I think your mind has made up things that have no connection. As a kid I used to imagine that if I correctly predict which direction a number of cars would turn on the morning (left or right) of an exam , then I thought I would do very well in the exam. I could convince myself that there is a strong correlation in what i observed (I did not know the word correlation in those days).

    Our mind provides missing information. I bet there are lots of Puranic stories that will not fit into your scheme.

    The trouble with your blogs is that analysis of genuine advancement of science during Vedic times will be discounted.

    Seems like you are passionate in your analysis. You have maintained a dignity in your response in the face of strong criticisms. That is usually not the norm. Though I do not agree I wish you well.


    Smiling as I think of one character specifically who would have responded very differently to questions and critiques LOL LOL.. May Lord Vishnu (mass) bless him to contain the Rudra or Siva (anger energy ) in him ...
  9. All views expressed by the Members and Moderators here are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the TamilBrahmins.com Website.
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  10. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by a-TB View Post
    Dear Mr TBT:

    Did not take your comment as a ridicule - I was just trying to educate and give more information. A degree by itself means not much. But if a person publishes original research work in peer reviewed publications with high reputation that is a big deal to me. I have never done any such things.

    Now writing something here or in one's own blog is not a publication LOL

    You claim you see strong correlation. I think your mind has made up things that have no connection. As a kid I used to imagine that if I correctly predict which direction a number of cars would turn on the morning (left or right) of an exam , then I thought I would do very well in the exam. I could convince myself that there is a strong correlation in what i observed (I did not know the word correlation in those days).

    Our mind provides missing information. I bet there are lots of Puranic stories that will not fit into your scheme.

    The trouble with your blogs is that analysis of genuine advancement of science during Vedic times will be discounted.

    Seems like you are passionate in your analysis. You have maintained a dignity in your response in the face of strong criticisms. That is usually not the norm. Though I do not agree I wish you well.


    Smiling as I think of one character specifically who would have responded very differently to questions and critiques LOL LOL.. May Lord Vishnu (mass) bless him to contain the Rudra or Siva (anger energy ) in him ...
    All your points are absolutely true.

    Unless my thoughts/propositions are peer-reviewed, new findings in them accepted, it is not going to have a 'stature' or 'acceptance' in a wider community. The reason why I put up some of these in sites like these is to get feedback on how 'lay man'ish I can get. It's a kind of 'beta-testing'.

    I am sure my works will get through peer reviews (some of them are going through already). There is no standard forums to review works like this, that falls neither in science nor in vedas (or falls in both), but they can be independently reviewed and it's happening.

    What I look for here are pointing out to factual errors, things that appear complex or convoluted (or not simple) etc. Your ridicules, queries, suspicions are all very valuable feedback for me, for it shows how people look at these and motivate me to make it simpler and simpler.

    The idea is not to 'convert' people. The idea is to improve my ability to present it more simply and neatly.

    -TBT
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  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaagmi View Post
    TBTji,

    Please go ahead with your presentation. There are people here who are able to make out meaning out of your posts.

    It is not the topic/subject or the idea that you present that is not understandable. It is only the process sequence or language that is somewhat distracting. But it requires only an appropriate filter circuit to cut the clutter and understand the signal. These are things which can be understood better in a one to one conversation than through a series of posts here. But given the fact that you are writing here, we try to understand.

    Every fact here in this world is subject to the constraints imposed by the benign circumstances. For instance every "finite" measurement is subject to the all pervading gravitational field in which it is measured and the laws postulated. Then we also have the micro and macro realities to contend with.

    It appears the vedas are from an altogether different "time". (time within quotes because even the nature of time might have been different in those "times"--like being not uni-directional always etc.,). And we have another issue to contend with viz., "vedas speak eternal truth".

    It is just a given situation which we are trying to interpret with inadequate scales. But it has to be done.

    I wish you well. Thanks. Please continue.

    If we can make out what Kamal Hassan says about politics and if we can make out what Vijaykant tries to convey with his sound bytes, we can try to understand anyone in this world. LOL.

    That is for someone here who eagerly looks forward to my LOL always. LORL.
    Thanks for your encouraging words and support

    Sure, More to come

    -TBT
  13. All views expressed by the Members and Moderators here are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the TamilBrahmins.com Website.
    If you are having a problem with a particular thread or user, please use the "REPORT POST" button beside the offending post to inform us or raise a complaint.
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