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Adi Shankara-Kumārila Bhaṭṭa and Madana Mishra- Can we see a chronological pattern?

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arunshanker

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Adi Shankara-Kumārila Bhaṭṭa and Madana Mishra- Can we see a chronological pattern?

1. Kumārila Bhaṭṭa ( roughly AD 700) was a Hindu philosopher and Mimamsa scholar from Prayag
2.Adi Shankara was an Indian philosopher who consolidated the doctrine of Advaita Vedanta,
3.Maṇḍana Miśra (c. 8th century CE) was a Hindu philosopher, who wrote on the Mīmāmsā and Advaita systems of thought, and was a student and follower of Ādi Śankara.
Now I refrain from attaching a range of date for Adi Shankara
here is the relationship
Kumārila Bhaṭṭa with the aim to prove the superiority of Vedic scripture, Kumarila presented several novel arguments:He said that The scriptures of Buddhists and Jains are composed in overwhelmingly incorrect (asadhu) language, words of the Magadha or Dakshinatya languages, or even their dialects (tadopabhramsa).
the above clearly shows that he was active AFTER Buddha
Maṇḍana Miśra was known to be a student of a mimansa scholar Kumarila Bhatta
All of us know of the famous debate between Adi Shankara and Maṇḍana Miśra

Now take a look at this
Dharmakirti (ca. 7th century), was an Indian scholar and one of the Buddhist founders of Indian philosophical logic. He was one of the primary theorists of Buddhist atomism, according to which the only items considered to exist are momentary Buddhist atoms and states of consciousness.
Dharmakirti is clearly mentioned in Huen Tsang (7th c.) That I guess is decisive as it is on records
Mandana Mishra says that Adi Shankara quotes Dharmakirti in the famous debate
Now my question is where does that put Adi Shankara's chronology
Pre Buddha or post Buddha?
 
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Dharmakirti is clearly mentioned in Huen Tsang (7th c.) That I guess is decisive as it is on records
Mandana Mishra says that Adi Shankara quotes Dharmakirti in the famous debate
Now my question is where does that put Adi Shankara's chronology
Pre Buddha or post Buddha?

The Shringeri Peetha dates Sri Adi Shankara as 800 AD, its mentioned on their website.

If Sri Adi Shankara quoted Dharmakirti of 7th century, then the 800AD time slot does fit in.
 
The Shringeri Peetha dates Sri Adi Shankara as 800 AD, its mentioned on their website.

If Sri Adi Shankara quoted Dharmakirti of 7th century, then the 800AD time slot does fit in.
That puts us in quagmire now what shoudl be the date of Kanchi Mutt then?
 
that part is a controversy arun...these things are best handled by historians who can examine such things with clinical detachment.
 
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I once touched this subject and got serverely burnt my fingers, nose,trousers et all...

Let me stay away for a while, and watch 'Wht's goin' on'''' Yeh..yeh..yeh..
 
Dear all,

This conversation has been raging for a long time. It was at one time was so in this very Forum.

We have determined that this is an unsolvable matter in this Forum. With due respect to all who have participated in this topic, if this is an issue that can be easily solved here, would have been already solved elsewhere.

I would request the author of this thread and the posters to refrain from proceeding unless they have in their possesiion any new definitive evidence to settle this issue.

Otherwise this will create unnecessary disunity amongst the Forum membership.

Thank you all.

Regards,
KRS
 
Dear KRS
Could you please give me the URL of the previous discussion
I shall have to go thru in detail and get back to the thread
Thanks
 
The debate between AdiSankara and Mandana Misral is historically well established.
A tradition in Kashmir also supports the above.The Badrinath sthala purana indicates that Adi Sanhara got the place back from the Jains
 
The debate between AdiSankara and Mandana Misral is historically well established.
A tradition in Kashmir also supports the above.The Badrinath sthala purana indicates that Adi Sanhara got the place back from the Jains

If Mandana Mishra was 8th century then Sri Adi Shankara also belonged to the same century...
 
I would request the author of this thread and the posters to refrain from proceeding unless they have in their possesiion any new definitive evidence to settle this issue.

Dear Sri KRS ji,

Am beginning to understand why some folk dig into the antecedents of the Kanchi mutt. Its a combination of political and social reasons. I see a lot of discussion on the mutt in other places. I happened to look for info on the mutt after a conversation a few months back. I do not think there will be any definitive evidence to settle this very-complex issue that can have quite a few repurcursions. Perhaps its all "time". Just my thoughts sir.
 
I am not going further ahead here in this thread
I guess I have tread into a zone that is dangerous
But I guess I am clear as what is close to truth at least
about the age of Sankara and the Matt
Thanks Mr. KRS for the timely advise!
 
So do I.. I was never interested in debating this subject.. and never got involved in dating it. and cautioned it in my post #5
 
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A lot of people considered dating the turin shroud blasphemous
but it broke a myth when dated
That actually teaches us a lesson
An organizations should not be too imaginative in trying to Portray as an old and ancient
On scientific proof the fall will be painful
hence Openness and truthful attitude is needed
We should learn from History and not make the same mistakes
 
A lot of people considered dating the turin shroud blasphemous
but it broke a myth when dated
That actually teaches us a lesson
An organizations should not be too imaginative in trying to Portray as an old and ancient
On scientific proof the fall will be painful
hence Openness and truthful attitude is needed
We should learn from History and not make the same mistakes

I agree with you Arun. Just that in our society we have inteference from politcians and missonaries...

But i think it will happen in time, with growing prosperity i think people will not take these things as seriously or as a big deal as they can tend to do now..so they wudn't care about the dating...
 
I agree with you Arun. Just that in our society we have inteference from politcians and missonaries...

But i think it will happen in time, with growing prosperity i think people will not take these things as seriously or as a big deal as they can tend to do now..so they wudn't care about the dating...

Dear HH,

Carbon dating on 'Shroud of Turin' was done 20 Yrs ago, and the piece of cloth which was revered by billions for millenia was put on the garbage truck.. What's is the role of Politicians & Missionaries, in this scientific carbon dating test?
 
So do I.. I was never interested in debating this subject.. and never got involved in dating it. and cautioned it in my post #5

its hard to think a person with the political sort of social consciousness, keen on evaluating, auditing, certifying religions, who has passed deriding comments on shankaracharya in the past, wud not be interested...but anyways,...

however, the post 5 does not do any "cautioning", instead it seems keen on wanting to "watch" things after getting "burnt once"...
 
Dear HH,

Carbon dating on 'Shroud of Turin' was done 20 Yrs ago, and the piece of cloth which was revered by billions for millenia was put on the garbage truck.. What's is the role of Politicians & Missionaries, in this scientific carbon dating test?

you are talking about a different setting, different culture, where christian missionaries do not need to bother about missioneries of other religions - they are the ones other ppl have always been bothered about, from african leaders to gandhi. also the people of the west have a diff kinda thinking from the ppl of the east..

christianity was not the religion of the west in the first place, it got imported from the middle-east to the west. where is "billions of millenia"....not sure they as a society care for spiritualism, its just capitalism and bussiness for them...and we owe it to the west for showing the way to making business out of humanity as well...
 
HH,Looks like the question and the answer doesnt tally!! Hope Im not that bad in comprehending things..

I just asked a simple question,that, whats the role of Politicians/Missionaries in carbon dating the 'Shroud Of Turin'... And you went on to talk about something else.. Could you please enlighten me, if Im wrong, in understanding your post. Thanks in advance.
 
HH,Looks like the question and the answer doesnt tally!! Hope Im not that bad in comprehending things..

I just asked a simple question,that, whats the role of Politicians/Missionaries in carbon dating the 'Shroud Of Turin'... And you went on to talk about something else.. Could you please enlighten me, if Im wrong, in understanding your post. Thanks in advance.

Already answered: you are talking about a different setting, different culture.

The answer is meant to convey what it should convey, to you. Yes, you may not be reading and comprehending things between the lines.
 
HH, I addressed myself as an Athenian Fool, in that thread..

hmm...and hope you are not expecting me to be an athenian fool to buy that.

if your expression about things in hinduism had come across as "not having" an ulterior motive, i wud have responded thus far with you differently. but (to me) there is something amiss in your intensions...
 
I have just read the translations of the travels of Fa-Hien and Huein Tsang.Both their narratives place Madana Misra in the 8th Century AD.If some detailed research is done on the Jain scripture it will throw a lot of light.We are dealing with Adi Sankara here and NOT about Maths
 
Although, Hema advised us not to bring in mathematics here, I can't just resist it.

Consider these pairs of numbers:

(a) 100 and 200 - Difference is 100 and the latter is twice the former.

(b) 1000 and 1100 - Difference is the same (100), but the latter is just
1.1 times the former.

(c) 2000 and 2100 - Difference is the very same 100, but the latter is only 1.05
times the former.

The reason why I have quoted these is there is no point in digging the past beyond a point. History presents to us many facts about which we have no idea or knowledge and at the same time, accuracy of many reportings are subject of debate.

But, according to me, fixing 7 AD to 8 AD as the age of Adi Sankara will be acceptable to many dispassionate historians and devout but rational Hindus as well.
 
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