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Siddhas. Who were they? What did they practice and teach? --I

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Thank you, Nara.

If siddhars were obsessed with converting mercury to gold, the motivation must be nothing more esoteric than that of the alchemists of Europe.

The similarity between the alchemists of Europe and the Tantriks of India has been studied extensively.

There is an good book on Alchemy --Alchemy and Alchemists by Sean martin

He has written about Chinese and Indian Alchemy also.

I quote from that book.

Alchemy has also been seen as a spiritual path,undertaken by students studying under an adept or master.From the earliest times,this is how alchemy was studied.With the beginnings of modern science in the seventeenth century,alchemy became more and more an inner discipline.Writers such as Jakob Boehme (1575–1624) and Thomas Vaughan (1621–1665) were almost certainly total strangers to the laboratory.These writers often equated the Philosopher’s Stone with Christ,and can be seen as mystics as much as alchemists.

The mystical branch of alchemy produced countless allegories of spiritual development.Pre-dating John Bunyan by fifty years or so,is the remarkable The Labyrinth of the World and the Paradise of the Heartby JA Comenius.In this,the narrator is led through an endless city where he witnesses all forms of human folly.In the end,he is saved only by his faith in God.In addition to Comenius, there are countless shorter works,such as Thomas Vaughan’s House of Light and Tommasso de Campanella’s City of the Sun.

Indian Alchemy

As with alchemy in China,the underlying aim of the work is to free the alchemist from the constraints of time.While the materials are being worked on,the alchemist is still in the state of becoming.Mercury has to be fixed or ‘killed’(this is identified with the ego).The end of the work,in which the metals (and Nature – both nature in general and the alchemist’s own nature) are ‘perfected’,sees the alchemist reach the state of pure being, in which there is no past or future,no further striving upwards, but an abiding state of clear,mindful existence.

Alchemy is credited with evolution of Homeopathy.

Also, if Siddhars are supposed to be interested in spiritual life and all that jazz, why were they interested in extending mere material life in the first place anyway?

I had answered this question earlier .

2. Why did they want to live for ever?

It a a very long time to attain Siddhis. The idea is that you spent almost one life time in the practice of Yoga and attaining Siddhis. Then you seek Spirituality. The Siddhars search for Kayakalpa and para kaya pravesa were all based on this concept. Attain perfect control over your body as it is the instrument for seeking Spiritual attainments.

Again this has a lot of relevance to their philosophy. We will discus that later.
 
..... People told the TTE that the engine would not start without Mayandi swamigal.
Dear Shri Nacchinarkiniyan, I feel such stories are complete fakes, made up to inflate the supposed powers of seeming mendicants who may very well be merely suffering from some kind of mental disorder and nothing more.

Stopping trains by sitting near a bush taken from third-hand haigeographical account is very weak. Let them make a missing limb grow back or something. If these people have supernatural powers let them demonstrate it in a controlled environment in front of a skeptical audience. Circular logic to avoid such demonstration is not a proper stand to take.

All this would be harmless if it is confined to small pockets. However, according the legitimacy of academic discussion to such stories encourages superstitious beliefs among even those who must know better. IMO, promoting such superstitions is no service to no religion.

Cheers!
 
Dear Shri Nacchinarkiniyan, I feel such stories are complete fakes, made up to inflate the supposed powers of seeming mendicants who may very well be merely suffering from some kind of mental disorder and nothing more.

Stopping trains by sitting near a bush taken from third-hand haigeographical account is very weak. Let them make a missing limb grow back or something. If these people have supernatural powers let them demonstrate it in a controlled environment in front of a skeptical audience. Circular logic to avoid such demonstration is not a proper stand to take.

All this would be harmless if it is confined to small pockets. However, according the legitimacy of academic discussion to such stories encourages superstitious beliefs among even those who must know better. IMO, promoting such superstitions is no service to no religion.

Cheers!

Strong terms. But I beg to disagree. These are beliefs. I am a believer. You are a skeptic or a non-believer.

Siddhars are well known for their psychic powers.

The controversy about the existence of psychic powers is very old. ESP, Telepathy , Telekinesis and so on. In fact in India we go even further. We believe that a man could harness the powers of nature and use it for various purposes. The term "Mantrikam" comes from that. You could call it Black magic.

There have been many reportings like the one I quoted about Mayandi Swamigal. Paul Brenton was one of the earliest to record such instances in his book "Search in Secret India." A number of books in English written by Western authors like Sadhus: Holy Men of India, by Dolf Hartsuiker. Published by Thames & Hudson, 1993, Sadhus, un voyage initiatique chez les ascètes de l'Inde, by Patrick Levy, Editions du Relié, 2009 have come out. There are many books published during the British rule. Many of these documented the psychic powers of sadhus.

A number of studies have taken place in the West and the erstwhile Soviet Union.

A number of studies have also been done by reputed institutions such as Defence Institute of Physiology and Allied Sciences (DIPAS) , All India Institute of Medical Sciences (AIIMS), National Institute of Mental Health and Neuro Sciences (NIMHANS). But these were mainly concentrated on the therapeutic powers of Yoga.

The book Psychic discoveries behind the Iron Curtain, by Sheila Ostrnder was a path breaking work. Studies in the U.S have all been oriented towards as to how to obtain these powers and use them for Military purposes. So most of the research remains secret.

I will show how even such researches will never convince the skeptics.

Swami Rama was studied at the Menninger Foundation in the spring and fall of 1970, and was alleged by some observers at the foundation to have telekinetically moved a knitting needle twice from a distance of five feet. Although Swami Rama wore a facemask and gown to prevent allegations that he moved the needle with his breath or body movements, and air vents in the room had been covered, at least one physician observer who was present at the time was not convinced and expressed the opinion that air movement was somehow the cause.
--Wikipedia

Look at the way this is worded. It is only an allegation by some observers. Only one man has disagreed. No one has provided any evidence as to how it was done. So they have even denied the happening. He either moved it or not moved it. How can you term it as "alleged by some observers'. Let us face it. We can never convince the skeptics.

I am sure you could also quote from many sources.

The popularity or fascination of Siddhars in Tamil Nadu is mainly because of the psychic powers exhibited by them.

People especially in India believe in Psychic powers. Belief in the West is growing. It is not total disbelief like what it was 100 years or even 50years back.

We know of the so called Western Scientific knowldge. These are the people who propagated the idea that having a bath gives you tuberculosis and what not. We know of the Western Doctors who carried on a campaign against Breast feeding for a long period of time.

Religion is a set of Beliefs. Beliefs are called so because they can not be proved. What is normal belief or superstitious belief depends on the person. As the saying goes"My belief is Belief. Your belief is Superstition.
 
For hundreds of years the Western Science called Meditation a superstitious belief of the east. Hinduism and Buddhism. Now almost all the Doctors agree about the therapeutic value of Meditation. They even have Christian Meditation now. This is all due to one man. Maharishi Mahesh Yogi. Transcendental Meditation. They proved the therapeutic value of Meditation. I remember the skeptism with which many of the original researches were received. How much of scorn was poured. Now this has become a fact.

So much for the so called Scientific reasoning.
 
...These are beliefs. I am a believer. You are a skeptic or a non-believer.
Dear Shri Nacchinarkiniyan, I made my comment only because your account of Mayandi was presented as fact. Now, you have confirmed it is only your belief. I will leave it at that.

"My belief is Belief. Your belief is Superstition.
This statement is not acceptable. It gives an impression that all beliefs are equally valid. Religious beliefs including the so called psychic powers are unsubstantiated beliefs, AKA, superstitions. On the other side what we have are (a) established facts, abd (b) beliefs that are derived from careful observations but still lacking clinching proof. To claim equal status with this kind of beliefs to the ones you espouse is unacceptable.

.... They proved the therapeutic value of Meditation. I remember the skeptism with which many of the original researches were received. How much of scorn was poured. Now this has become a fact.

So much for the so called Scientific reasoning.
I don't know what kind of scorn you are talking about. Please understand that it took scientfic process to establish any benefit meditation may offer. It is not just asserted. Also, scientific process is all about seeking the truth and is not about clinging to past beliefs. They are never shy about owning up to any mistakes. The process of observation and verification is never ending. No theory is accepted unless it is established and verified. That is what scientific reasoning is.

Cheers!
 
Dear Shri Nacchinarkiniyan, I made my comment only because your account of Mayandi was presented as fact. Now, you have confirmed it is only your belief. I will leave it at that.

This statement is not acceptable. It gives an impression that all beliefs are equally valid. Religious beliefs including the so called psychic powers are unsubstantiated beliefs, AKA, superstitions. On the other side what we have are (a) established facts, abd (b) beliefs that are derived from careful observations but still lacking clinching proof. To claim equal status with this kind of beliefs to the ones you espouse is unacceptable.

I don't know what kind of scorn you are talking about. Please understand that it took scientfic process to establish any benefit meditation may offer. It is not just asserted. Also, scientific process is all about seeking the truth and is not about clinging to past beliefs. They are never shy about owning up to any mistakes. The process of observation and verification is never ending. No theory is accepted unless it is established and verified. That is what scientific reasoning is.

Cheers!

Mayandi swamigal's story is fact not belief. Please do not twist my words.

This statement is not acceptable. It gives an impression that all beliefs are equally valid. Religious beliefs including the so called psychic powers are unsubstantiated beliefs, AKA, superstitions. On the other side what we have are (a) established facts, abd (b) beliefs that are derived from careful observations but still lacking clinching proof. To claim equal status with this kind of beliefs to the ones you espouse is unacceptable.

This is definitely not acceptable to me.

You are entitled to your own beliefs and opinions. I am entitled to mine.

Now may I remind you that this entire thread is based on our beliefs.
 
Sri. Nara,

Now that you have presented your Point of View, Please let the members decide what to believe or not to believe. All our members are educated.

Thank you.
 
What is the role of Ashtama Siddhis in spirituality?

We come again to the original questions.

1. Their Philosophy.

3. How did they achieve the Siddhis?

4. What is the role of Ashtama Siddhis in spirituality?

5. Why were the Siddhas eccentric to say the least?

I will take up this question first.

4. What is the role of Ashtama Siddhis in spirituality?

I have studied about Ashtama Siddhi and my daily prayers include a request to GOD for achieving them. But I find it hard to believe in them fully. Some of them are spiritual attainments which the Sadhaka would like to achieve. They are exaggerated to a great extent. Poetic fancy which we find in all our scriptures. I remember reading in the Indology discussion group about the amount of Gold that one of our seers got when he won a debate. In today's value it came to a couple of Billion U.S. Dollars. And the weight of that much gold!

So with these words I will try to guess why the Siddhars wanted some of the Siddhis.

Some of the Ashtama Siddhis (only those dealing with Physical Body. The others relate to Spiritual Achievements)

Anima (shrinking) -- The Yogi can become as minute as he pleases. -- Can not see any real use.--May be used when faced with wild animals. But then they were supposed to be friendly with them through some other Siddhis.

Mahima (illimitability) -- The power of increasing one's size without limit.-- Can not see any real use.

Lagima (lightness) -- He can make his body as light as cotton or feather.-- May be used for travelling. Could be carried by the wind.

Garima (weight) -- Capacity to weigh heavy, though seemingly small size. -- Could be used for weathering storms.

Prakamya (Para Kaya Prevesam) -- Power of disembodying and entering into other bodies. The only Siddhi which seems to have been used by the Siddhars.

No two books agree on the description of these Siddhis. Though the term is used often, the translations differ.

The general conclusion we can draw is that these Siddhis were used to travel wide distances, lead a life in remote places and prolong life.
 
Sri. Nara,

Now that you have presented your Point of View, Please let the members decide what to believe or not to believe. All our members are educated.
This is acceptable, but before I sign off I have to record a couple of observations.


Mayandi swamigal's story is fact not belief. Please do not twist my words.
I based my comment on your words, "These are beliefs. I am a believer" from here. Therefore, I do not feel I twisted your words.

From what you have stated it seems you read this in a book about Mayandi Swamigal. Therefore, I really don't see how you can be so sure this is a fact. Anyway, as you have mentioned, let the readers decide.

Now may I remind you that this entire thread is based on our beliefs.
If you are presenting these as beliefs it is fine. But you are also stating these are facts.

Cheers!
 
Dear Professor Nara Ji,

Vedic astrology is based on the observed connections between the astronomical positions of planets and a person's birth. Rules have been laid out based on this for predictive astrology. I am an amateur practicing this for many years. To my constant amazement, there indeed is a very strong correlation between the planet positions and the lives of human beings.

But, in your statements, you have said that it is 'absurd' to think that there is any effect of these inert planets on human lives! You did not say, let us look at this phenomenon with an open mind - your mind refuses to accept anything beyond the currently known physical science. It is also presented as though the astrologers are not forthcoming to be subjected to any 'controlled study' of the discipline. Actually the issue is the reverse - no scientist wants to undertake such a study, because there is apprehension on two fronts: 1. What if the study finds a correlation and 2. The reputation of such a scientist amongst the generally non believing, scientific community who do not believe in such 'superstitions'. They do not want to give any credence to the discipline, instead dismissing the discipline as 'not based on science'. I was trained as a scientist, so I know.

The recent news from a scientist from Minnesota is another example. He got confused between the Sayana and Nirayana systems and very openly stated that people's astrological birth signs are not valid! Did he at least understand the differences between the systems? Did he do any study of both disciplines? Nope. His starting thesis was that astrology is bunk and so he thought he found a major 'glitch' and to get publicized, he made an untenable discovery!

The reason I am saying all this is what Sri Nacchinarkiniyan Ji writes above has the same treatment from you in terms of you saying that such accounts should not be written by someone who should know better!

He has already stated when he started this thread that he will account for certain things based on BELIEF. Yet you seem to think that it is wrong to write such stories.

Science has it's limitations. It is not a holy grail, to account for everything and anything of the human condition. They do not have the tools necessary to fathom such things as moving a needle by mind etc. So to dismiss anything not proved by science out of hand with derision, saying it is only belief, in my mind is a limitation on imposes on oneself, without an open mind.

Regards,
KRS
 
Dear Shri KRS,

.... You did not say, let us look at this phenomenon with an open mind - your mind refuses to accept anything beyond the currently known physical science.
Well, it is true that I have closed my mind about certain things, but I disagree that it was never open.

It is also presented as though the astrologers are not forthcoming to be subjected to any 'controlled study' of the discipline. Actually the issue is the reverse - no scientist wants to undertake such a study
As one trained in science I am surprised you are saying this. Scientists are required to do nothing that does not interest them. It is up to the interested people to make it happen. With thousands of crores of rupees in their coffers, I don't know why one of the religious mathams that believe in this sort of thing fund such a study and show it to the skeptics that it really works.

, because there is apprehension on two fronts: 1. What if the study finds a correlation and 2. The reputation of such a scientist amongst the generally non believing, scientific community who do not believe in such 'superstitions'. They do not want to give any credence to the discipline, instead dismissing the discipline as 'not based on science'. I was trained as a scientist, so I know.
Again, this is surprising coming from one trained as a scientist. Of course, the scientific community will reject unsubstantiated claims, like the one about Mayandi Swamigal, but if you demonstrate using valid statistical procedures and replicate it, people will take notice and it will no longer be mere superstition. But this can come only from true believers. A non-believer has two things going against him/her (i) proving a negative is impossible and (ii) even if they show it does not work in one study, the believers will go on believing, nothing will be achieved.

I know there was an adjustment made to the zodiac signs, but AFAIK, it was not about the validity or untenability of astrology in general.


He has already stated when he started this thread that he will account for certain things based on BELIEF. Yet you seem to think that it is wrong to write such stories.
I think it is wrong to write them as facts.

Science has it's limitations. It is not a holy grail,
and scientists are aware of this than anyone else. I have said this many times, science is not complete and it may never be complete. Taking a cue from Mahakavi, ஆயிரம் உண்டிங்கு சந்தேகம், எனில் மூடநம்பிக்கை ஆமோ விவேகம்.

I make a promise to you Shri KRS, if astrology or psychic power or any other supernatural claims is methodically shown to be true to the satisfaction of the scientific community, I will have no hesitation offering an unconditional apology to all of you and even support the advancement of these fields.

Cheers!
 
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Dear Professor Nara Ji,

I don't want to hi-jack this thread to veer the discussions towards astrology, but I hope that he will see my response as a part of your discussions with Sri Nacchinarkiniyan on differences between 'Superstition' and the 'Truth'. My response is in 'blue' below.
Dear Shri KRS,

Well, it is true that I have closed my mind about certain things, but I disagree that it was never open.

As one trained in science I am surprised you are saying this. Scientists are required to do nothing that does not interest them. It is up to the interested people to make it happen. With thousands of crores of rupees in their coffers, I don't know why one of the religious mathams that believe in this sort of thing fund such a study and show it to the skeptics that it really works.
It is not about money - it isw about finding able researchers who can find peers to evaluate their research, and more importantly the ability to publish in reputed Scientific Journals.

Professor Mark Urban-Lurain teaches Statistical Mathematics. He wanted to do his research applying Statistics to Western Astrolgy, trying to find correlations. Guess what? It was not easy. Especially read his words on the fate of a couple of Professors who supported him. Please read the following speech by him:2005 Graduation - Speech by Mark Urban-Lurain: Kepler Graduates' Influence in Academia


Again, this is surprising coming from one trained as a scientist. Of course, the scientific community will reject unsubstantiated claims, like the one about Mayandi Swamigal, but if you demonstrate using valid statistical procedures and replicate it, people will take notice and it will no longer be mere superstition. But this can come only from true believers. A non-believer has two things going against him/her (i) proving a negative is impossible and (ii) even if they show it does not work in one study, the believers will go on believing, nothing will be achieved.
Careers are involved. Institutional mindset against anything unconventional comes in to play. Add to it the lack of tools to prove correlation. You should know these, as you are in Academics as well. Please read the presentations here given by the above cited professor:
https://www.msu.edu/~urban/kepler/symposium2001/index.htm


I know there was an adjustment made to the zodiac signs, but AFAIK, it was not about the validity or untenability of astrology in general.
The point is the 'scientific' person twisted the facts to sensationalize the hypothesis that Astrology is wrong. He did not know what he was talking about.


I think it is wrong to write them as facts.

and scientists are aware of this than anyone else. I have said this many times, science is not complete and it may never be complete. Taking a cue from Mahakavi, ஆயிரம் உண்டிங்கு சந்தேகம், எனில் மூடநம்பிக்கை ஆமோ விவேகம்.
The mistake you make is that an absence of scientific proof does not relegate something as 'superstition'. There are eye witness accounts as Sri Nacchinarkiniyan posted about a car not starting in a clearance in the middle of a forest. My own grandmother, who was exposed to a location where there were dead bodies, started speaking in fluent French (attested by those who knew French) that lasted for a while. She was barely literate. These are valid eye witness accounts. Now are these accounts false and the events did not happen, because Science can not explain them? I have studied and applied the vedic astrology principles to predict events in my life. It has been more than 60% accurate, I must say. About 15% of things I predicted were not accurate, it was due to timing (Events happened, but not in the time frame I predicted). This is called empirical evidence.

I really think that Science has an inbuilt prejudice against thease ancient disciplines, because they are now controlled by atheists who have no use for the idea that life is magic.



I make a promise to you Shri KRS, if astrology or psychic power or any other supernatural claims is methodically shown to be true to the satisfaction of the scientific community, I will have no hesitation offering an unconditional apology to all of you and even support the advancement of these fields.
Sorry to say this: Bah Humbug!


Cheers!
 
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Dear brother,

I did want to end my quote with smileys. But then I saw Sri Naacchinarkiniyan Ji posted a 'I like this post' for my post for the second time - he posted it on my original post, which I edited and he posted the same which was wiped out with my edit.

So on the second attempt I forgot to add the smileys. And when I again saw his endorsement, I did not want to put him through another cycle.

Yes, please add 10 smileys from me on that quote.

Regards,
KRS
 
...Yes, please add 10 smileys from me on that quote.
Are we on a smiley contest? Even here I have to bow to my older brother, if I put that many smileys, the site will reject my post.

Cheers!
 
Dear brother,

I did want to end my quote with smileys. But then I saw Sri Naacchinarkiniyan Ji posted a 'I like this post' for my post for the second time - he posted it on my original post, which I edited and he posted the same which was wiped out with my edit.

So on the second attempt I forgot to add the smileys. And when I again saw his endorsement, I did not want to put him through another cycle.

Yes, please add 10 smileys from me on that quote.

Regards,
KRS

Thank you, KRS.
 
Trailinga Swami was a well known Siddha in Banares who performed numerous miracles.

Trailanga Swami - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sri Ramakrishna met him and this is what he said about him.

Sri Ramakrishna Quotes on Trailanga Swami of benaras

Reasoning and discrimination vanish after the attainment of God and communion with Him in samadhi. How long does a man reason and discriminate? As long as he is conscious of the manifold, as long as he is aware of the universe, of embodied beings, of 'I' and 'you'. He becomes silent when he is truly aware of Unity. This was the case with Trailanga Swami.

There are two classes of paramahamsas, one affirming the formless Reality and the other affirming God with form. Trailanga Swami believed in the formless Reality. Paramahamsas like him care for their own good alone; they feel satisfied if they themselves attain the goal.

Trailanga Swami once said that because a man reasons he is conscious of multiplicity, of variety. Attaining samadhi, one gives up the body in twenty-one days. Spiritual consciousness is not possible without the awakening of the Kundalini.

A man who has realized God shows certain characteristics. He becomes like a child or a madman, or an inert thing or a ghoul. Further, he is firmly convinced that he is the machine and God is its Operator, that God alone is the Doer and all others are His instruments. As some Sikh devotees once said to me, even the leaf moves because of God's will. One should be aware that everything happens by the will of Rama.

Sri Ramakrishna on Trailanga Swami of benaras
 
How did they achieve the Siddhis?

Now we come to the other questions.

3. How did they achieve the Siddhis?

The answer is Yoga. Hatha Yoga. Kundalini Yoga.

A number of old Sanskrit books are available which helps us understand the Philosophy and the methods of the Siddhars. Then we have Thirumandiram.

But this is only a generalization. Since the Nath/Siddha /Avadhuta sampradhaya has hundreds of branches with a number of variations in thought and methods, and the secrecy involved in imparting their method, we can not confirm the Philosophy or method used by any particular Siddhar.

We can not even confirm which God/Goddess they prayed to.

Tirumandiram has both Siva and Saktha methods. Research has revealed that the methods of SriVidya were known to Thirumoolar.

Gorakshaknath's methods were purely Saivite.

Matsyendranath's methods were purely Saktha. He is the founder of Kaula Marga. Then we have Kaula Marga SriVidya which is quite different from the SriVidya of Bhaskara Raya.

The Avadhutas also used methods which were Vaidic in character.

Many scholars classify the methods used as

1. Vamachara.

2. Dakshinachara/Samayachara.

The Siddhars were followers of Swa Iccha(Will) chara. That is you follow the method which conforms to your nature. This is what was propounded by Guru Dattareya.

Even A shishya need not follow the method of the Guru. This is illustrated by two of the most famous Gurus. Gorakshaknath and Matsyendranath. Matsyendranath was a pure Saktha whereas Gorakshaknath's methods were purely Saivite.

So the Siddhars could have followed any of the hundreds of methods prescribed in Saivism/Sakthism/Vaishnavism. I am including Vaishnavism as Agamic Vaishnavism does contain many methods. Guru Dattatreya was adapted into Vaishnavism by the Naths of Maharashtra. Some of the Avadhutas of Tamil Nadu followed Vaishnavism.
 
Dear Nachi Sir,

Pl. guide me to know the practically effective (in modern day life) idea to follow the guidance of Siddhas to attain Liberation of Soul

Thanks and regards.

S.Ravichandran
 
Dear Nachi Sir,

Pl. guide me to know the practically effective (in modern day life) idea to follow the guidance of Siddhas to attain Liberation of Soul

Thanks and regards.

S.Ravichandran

The way of the Siddhars is both arduous and difficult. It emphasizes extreme renunciation. Most of them walked nude. Only when they came in contact with others did some of them wear a kaupeenam or sometimes rags.

It is seen that the general society did not appreciate or value Siddhars. This is because most of them were classified as Mad men/women. The Siddhars went out of the way to break all the rules of the society.

Only those siddhars who performed miracles were known to the public who treated them as GODMEN

Take the case of Mayamma of Kanyakumari. She was called a mad Beggar woman. Not surprising when you see that Mayamma used to eat with the dogs scraping left over food. She used to sleep with the dogs.

Once I was visiting the samadhi of my Guru's Guru. During this visit I also visited the house of one of the old Brahmin families of the place. The head of the family, an old Brahmin in his late eighties, gave me a particular look when I told him about my visit to the samadhi. Then he went on to tell me old stories about how the local people stoned my Parama Guru and pulled out his hair. Then I understood his look. He thought I was mad to follow such an individual.

When we talk about different kinds of samadhi, you should also understand how the rationalists and non-believers view such things. They call it a psychological disease. They have also given many names for such phenomena. In general it is called MADNESS.

The Siddhar's way of life is history. It can not come back. It is not at all suited to modern times. Even my sampradhaya has very few followers now. No renunciate.
 
Now we come to the real heavy stuff. The Philosophy of the Siddhars

I had said the the Siddhars followed Svecchachara.

'Svecchācāra' means: acting as one likes, arbitrariness, acting without restrain.

"Sveccha means one's own wish or free will. Svecchachara means a way of life where one acts as one wishes and does what is right in one's own eyes. Doing one's own Will. The concluding Sanskrit expression in the Avadhoota Upanishad is "Svecchachara Paro."

The term "Paro" means a mysterious or secret pattern to that action done by one's own Will. In other words, we do our Will but with discretion, not making it too obvious, nor to harm or hurt other people. Yet this is also a typical Nathism; a complete reversal of Vedic morals and philosophy."
Svecchachara - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But many would not agree with Guru Mahendranath's opinion about this being a complete reversal of Vedic morals. He considered Naths and Tantras to be anti-Vedic. I do not agree.
 
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A number of old Sanskrit books are available which helps us understand the Philosphy and the methods of the siddhars.

Again this is only a generalization. Since the Nath/Siddha /Avadhuta sampradhaya has hundreds of branches with a number of variations in thought and methods and the secrecy involved in imparting ther method, we can not confirm the Philsophy or method used by any particualr siddhar.

Books by

Gorakshaknath

Goraksha Samhita, Goraksha Gita, Siddha Siddhanta Paddhati, Yoga Martanada, Yoga Siddhanta Paddhati, Yoga-Bija, Yoga Chintamani.

Matseyandra nath

He is considered as the author of the Kaulajñānanirṇaya ("Discussion of the Knowledge Pertaining to the Kaula Tradition"), one of the earliest texts on Hatha Yoga in Sanskrit.

Dattatreya:

Tripura Rahasya

Avadhuta Gita


The ultmate goal in Yoga is Samadhi.

The ultimate goal in the Nath/Siddha philosohy is Samarasa.

They speak of the Natha, the Absolute, as beyond the opposition involved in the concepts of Saguna and Nirguna or of Sakara and Nirakara. And so to them the Supreme End of Life is to realise oneself as Natha and to remain eternally fixed above the world of relations. The way to this realisation is stated to be Yoga, on which they lay great emphasis. It is held that Perfection can not be attained by any means unless it is supplemented by the disciplinary practices of Yoga.

This explains why the Siddhas live for ever. Unfortunately Siddha songs have been wrongly attributed to Advaita. This is because hardly anyone especially in Tamil Nadu have bothered to study the Nath/Siddha philosophy.

Samarasa

Going higher, it means the essential unity of all things -- of all existence, the equipoise of equanimity, the supreme bliss of harmony, that which is aesthetically balanced, undifferentiated unity, absolute assimilation, the most perfect unification and the highest consummation of Oneness.
To Dattatreya it meant a stage of realisation of the Absolute Truth where there was no longer any distinction to be felt, seen or experienced between the seeker and the Sought. Gorakhnath, who wrote the first texts of the Nathas, explains samarasa as a state of absolute freedom, peace and attainment in the realisation of the Absolute Truth. He placed it on a higher level than samadhi. Samarasa implied the joy and happiness with perfect equanimity and tranquility, maintained after samadhi had finished, and continued in the waking or conscious state. In this sense it is a form of permanent ecstasy and contemplation which the saint maintains at all times. Zen maintains the same concepts, but nothing comparable with pratibha, sahaja or samarasa are found in any of the Black Dharmas of Judaism, Christianity and Islam.
 
Prathiba - Sahaja - Samarasa

Now we come to the final post of this series.

The following excerpts from the article by Dadaji which appeared in Values magazine in the 1970s will help us understand the Philosophy of the Nath/Siddhas.

These concepts transcend the barriers of Vedas, Tantras, Agamas, Bhagavad Gita and other Hindu scriptures. They also transcend the barriers of religion. They are common to Hinduism, Buddhism and Taoism.

Prathiba - Sahaja - Samarasa

Excerpts from the article by Dadaji which appeared in Values magazine in the 1970s.

There are three Sanskrit words which form much of the essential structure upon which realisation and liberation depend. They were much used by Dattatreya and constantly repeated in the Tantrik or non-Vedic Agamas. Oddly enough, they are rarely used in Hindu life today, though they exist as words in most Indian dialects. None of the 3 can be easily translated into a single English word, but fortunately the language is rich enough to convey the meanings with even greater intensity.

The three words are pratibha, sahaja and samarasa. Each must be explained separately, perhaps
developed in the future. They not only have a unique beauty and charm of their own, but they also represent three great stepping-stones to the Absolute Reality.

Pratibha It means vision, insight, intuition, inner understanding, unconditioned knowledge, inner wisdom, awareness, awakening. In Zen they use the word satori. It should not be confused with enlightenment or realisation. Patanjali in his wonderful theoretical textbook of varied yoga practices known as the Yoga Aphorisms or Sutras, sees pratibha as the spiritual illumination which is attained through yoga discipline to enable the disciple to know all else. It is then the insight or illumination which is the open gateway to the final goal. It is the inner transformation which enables the aspirant to distinguish Reality from the sham. In some way it can be visualised as a bridge between the mind and the Real Self. It produces changed people and clarity of thinking as well as being an infallible guide in all undertakings. Some few people are born with it, but seldom to more than a small degree.

Even this can eventually be obscured by social life and its conditioning. It cannot thrive in a world where we permit others to do our thinking for us. The more it is used, the more it increases in intensity. Pratibha is not related to careful thought or deliberation. It is instant in operation and spontaneous in manifestation. For the average Zen student this was regarded as a sufficient attainment. Only those who seek Buddhahood and Enlightenment go further. But this is also a stage which, if once reached, requires no further guidance from a guru or master. Sometimes it is even spoken of as pratibha-shakti -- the power of illumination. It is most easily developed by meditation or contemplation, and is independent of all religious patterns. Pratibha is not even exclusively a spiritual concept. Those who have developed this faculty are more likely to succeed in the material world than the others. Modern Japan claims that most of the big names in industry and commerce today were once successful Zen students. Datta uses the word frequently in the Avadhuta Gita to show that the difficult ideas and the puzzles not easy to understand are cleared away instantly for that disciple who has developed the inner faculty of insight-illumination known as Pratibha.

Pratibha is the real Divya Chaksus -- the Third Eye which has so much captivated the mystical aspirations of the West. It is not really an "eye" so much as a miraculous vision or knowledge capable of plucking the gems of mystery and wisdom from the immaculate universe. It is the Philosophers Stone which has the divine power to transmute the sordid world of base lead into a golden mass of wonder and harmony. But only when you really want it can you get it.

Sahaja When we review the vast procession of naked, ragged and unkempt dropouts who illuminated the dreary passages of history to leave wisdom on which lesser minds could ponder, have we not cause for great wonder? What is it that made these men so different from the men of the mass- produced, vulgar rabble who populate the earth? The answer is that the former had Sahaja.

Man is born with an instinct for naturalness. He has never forgotten the days of his primordial perfection except inasmuch as the memory becomes buried under the artificial superstructures of civilisation and its artificial concepts. Sahaja means natural. It not only implies natural on physical and spiritual levels, but on the mystic level of the miraculous. It means that easy or natural state of living without planning, design, contriving, seeking, wanting, striving or intention.

What is to come must come of itself. It is the seed which falls to the ground, becomes seedling, sapling and then a vast shady tree of which the Pipal or Ashvattha is a classical example and used in wisdom teaching. The tree grows according to Sahaja, natural and spontaneous in complete conformity with the Natural Law of the Universe. Nobody tells it what to do and how to grow. It has no svadharma or rules, duties and obligations incurred by birth. It has only svabhava, its own inborn self or essence to guide it.

Sahaja is that nature which, when once established, brings the state of absolute freedom and peace. It is when you are in your natural state, in the harmony of the Cosmos. It is the balanced reality between the pairs of opposites. As the Guru of the Bhagavad Gita says: "The person who has conquered the baser self and has reached to the level of self mastery: he is at peace, whether it be in cold or hot, pleasure or pain, honoured or dishonoured." Thus sahaja expresses one who has reverted to his natural state, free from conditioning. It typifies the outlook which belongs to the natural, spontaneous and uninhibited man, free from innate or inherited defects.

In all the Golden Dharmas sahaja flourishes. In Taoism it was the highest virtue (re). In the earlier Zen records it is the main plank of training along which the disciples had to walk. The masters demanded answers which were sahaja and not the product of intellectual thinking or reason. The truth only came spontaneously. Sahaja in Chinese became tzu-jan or Self-so ness. Taoism openly lamented the loss of the peculiar naturalness and unselfconsciousness of the child. Lao Tzu saw that Confucian ethics (which have their counterpart in the modern world) crushed the original natural loveliness of the child into the rigid patterns of its conventions.

Retirement from such a society became the outer symbol of freedom from the bonds and bounds of conventional society. Taoism, as Brahma-Vidya and Zen, saw retirement or renunciation as the only possible way for men to recover sahaja. Thus the greatest quality of children again became recaptured by saints and sages.

Artificial clowns throng the world: Only children and saints know sahaja.

[Continued in next post]
 
Prathiba - Sahaja - Samarasa (continued)

Dattatreya tried to each men that if they had sahaja there was no need to do anything to prove it. It manifested only by the way one lived. Sukhadev, the great naked Mahatma who expounded the Bhagavad Purana, stood, when a young man, naked in the presence of his father, the sage Vyasa, to be initiated into the Brahmin caste with mantra and sacred thread. This was a moment such as we have just mentioned, when the natural unspoiled boy was to be ushered into a world of concepts, ideas and obligations, and all naturalness would be lost. Sukhadev decided to keep his sahaja. Taking to his heels, he ran from the house and took to the path which wound itself along the side of a river and into the jungle.

As he came to the river some young women were bathing naked in the water. They took no notice of Sukhadev and he only glanced and ran on. But Vyasa the father was hot on his tracks, and following the young man to induce him to return. But as Vyasa approached the river, the young women screamed, rushed for their garments and covered themselves as he drew near. Having observed their complete indifference when his naked son ran past, and this modest but demonstrative display at his own approach, Vyasa could not help wondering at the contrast.

He stopped by the now covered women, and asked for some explanation of such widely different
behaviour towards his naked son and his decorously dressed self. One of the women explained: "When your son looks at us he sees only people and is not conscious of male and female. He is just as unconscious of our nakedness as he is of his own, but with you, Maharaj Vyasa it is different." Sukhadev had sahaja, and the women knew it. He knew it, and never lost it. His father never caught up with him and he never returned home. He became one of India's many great saints, not living in any fixed place, but only in the fullness of the immediate present.

The three Sanskrit words Pratibha, Sahaja and Samarasa are related even in meaning, interlocking with each other and together to form a 'Holy Trinity' of liberation. The 3rd, however, is the greater and by far the most interesting, for it is the one single magic word which contains the Absolute, the Universe, and the World.

Samarasa This unique word, completely absent from Vedic texts, is found again and again in Tantra, Upanishads and all the best of non-Vedic literature. In one short chapter of the Avadhut Gita it occurs more than 40 times. This whole Gita would be impossible to read and understand without knowledge of this word.

One of the unique but mysterious features of the Sanskrit language is how many words can be used at three separate and distinct levels of thought. Even whole verses have this remarkable feature. It is one of the factors which have made translation into other languages so difficult. The difference presupposes three groups of people. First there is the literal meaning intended for the householder or worldly man, and a guide to better thought and action. The second is the meaning on a higher level intended for the mumukshi or hungry seeker for God. Here the same words take the reader from the mundane level to the higher level, and the implications. The third is the meaning intended for the soul who has attained or is nearly ready to attain liberation.

This play of words is not unknown in other languages 'A dog's life' would have a different meaning to Diogenes of Sinope, a harassed householder, or to a dog itself. There is little wonder that the sages warned against public reading of many scriptures and confined them only to disciples or near relatives. It is also one of the features which has made the Sadguru indispensable to the sincere disciple.

The Tantrik or non-Vedic teachers used the word samarasa in its mundane meaning to suggest higher truth. Samarasa can mean the ecstasy attained in sexual intercourse at the moment of orgasm. Using this, as many other worldly things, to draw an analogy between the moment of sexual bliss and the spiritual bliss of realisation, it was thought men and women would better understand absolute concepts from the examples of relative life.

Going higher, it means the essential unity of all things -- of all existence, the equipoise of equanimity, the supreme bliss of harmony, that which is aesthetically balanced, undifferentiated unity, absolute assimilation, the most perfect unification and the highest consummation of Oneness.

To Dattatreya it meant a stage of realisation of the Absolute Truth where there was no longer any distinction to be felt, seen or experienced between the seeker and the Sought. Gorakhnath, who wrote the first texts of the Nathas, explains samarasa as a state of absolute freedom, peace and attainment in the realisation of the Absolute Truth. He placed it on a higher level than samadhi. Samarasa implied the joy and happiness with perfect equanimity and tranquility, maintained after samadhi had finished, and continued in the waking or conscious state. In this sense it is a form of permanent ecstasy and contemplation which the saint maintains at all times. Zen maintains the same concepts, but nothing comparable with pratibha, sahaja or samarasa are found in any of the Black Dharmas of Judaism, Christianity and Islam.

In the Tantrik-Buddhist school which existed for about 300 years between the 7th and 10th centuries AD, samaras and sahaja hold a prominent place, and were also adopted by Tibetan Lamaism. The Siddha and Natha sects used samaras instead of the word moksha. In this way the word became used to express the highest ideal of human life. It is much elucidated in the Agamas of the Shiva-Shakti tradition. Samarasa is not just a matter of outlook or adjustment of ourselves with the world and its innumerable divisions, or to try and adjust the world to ourselves. One ends in greater conditioning, and the other in frustration. Samarasa must be regarded only as the culminating point of real yoga. The true yogi does as Dattatreya did -- seeing himself in the world and the world in himself, the most perfect harmony of man and nature.

Thanks to Lokanath Maharaj -Hindu Tantrik Home page

Shiva Shakti Mandalam: Tantrik Home Page

These concepts help us understand not only the siddhars but also all the Saints of Hinduism.
 
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