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Is God "imperfect?"

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My question is "Does something that is Perfect actually feel?"

Don't we have to have Gunas in order to feel?

Is it only Saguna Brahman that "feels" since Saguna has Sattva Guna.

So is Saguna "imperfect"?

I thought there is only one Brahman ever.. it seems there are more types of Brahmans now from the question LoL
 
My question is "Does something that is Perfect actually feel?"

Don't we have to have Gunas in order to feel?

Is it only Saguna Brahman that "feels" since Saguna has Sattva Guna.

So is Saguna "imperfect"?

May be the answer could be that as we are filled with the triguNas in varying proportions and we being no nirguNas, we can never know the perfection or imperfection in saguNa brahman.
 
Dear Renuka Madam:
Thank you so much for your detailed reply.

Now if you have spent so much time thinking and writing about God, why is your understanding ever changing? Do you think what you previously believed is mostly wrong now?

What triggers confusion to come up?

I live saying ignorance is bliss LoL

Yes..my understanding is ever changing...its evident even in my posts from before and now.

Ever changing does not need to mean that my previous understanding was flawed or wrong or even right for the matter..its just that my the mode of my mind has changed its expression.

Its not a state of confusion nor clarity but just change.

Change is hard to define..its just flows.

Trigger factors of change is mostly what I tend to notice as I age.
 
Has anyone seen God? I think when my car rammed against 3 rocks thus preventing a free fall into oblivion, maybe that was the moment I saw God? Who knows what mysterious force showed mercy on me at a spot where 100s have met their doom..
 
God would be imperfect .................
Earth could be imperfect................
Our parents might be imperfect...............
Our would-be would be imperfect...............
Our children would be imperfect .................
Even perfect could be imperfect..............
 
Has anyone seen God? I think when my car rammed against 3 rocks thus preventing a free fall into oblivion, maybe that was the moment I saw God? Who knows what mysterious force showed mercy on me at a spot where 100s have met their doom..

The fundamental question is how do we know that there is a god who somehow can show mercy to some and not to another. Ultimately, it seems in the overall context, he cannot show mercy to anybody, as everybody is seen to have a time limit (as yet).
 
Has anyone seen God? I think when my car rammed against 3 rocks thus preventing a free fall into oblivion, maybe that was the moment I saw God? Who knows what mysterious force showed mercy on me at a spot where 100s have met their doom..

Glad to know you survived.
God could very well be an idea in your mind and if that idea exist as a result of your experience that god is very real to you.
How does it matter that idea has to be accepted by others. Religion in a pure sense is a personal thing only.
 
If God is appearing as evil, he will NOT be be able to go away forever. That will amount to destruction of God

It is like asking you to take your head out of your shoulders, an impossible task (LoL instead of shoulders I almost wrote something else, so slapped myself )

IF God will not be able to go away (as evil, irrespective of his appearance or not), then why should we call him "God"?

Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?
 
IF God will not be able to go away (as evil, irrespective of his appearance or not), then why should we call him "God"?

The issue is that you insist that god has to be a certain way - all good and nice for you!
When you imagine a god like that then you have to call anything else not god.

I say a person has head only over his shoulders. You say the head has to be somewhere else because that is all you have imagined. I say get beyond your imagination and then you will say 'oh yes, head can only be over one's shoulders, not where I think it is'. There will be no paradox then.

The bad guys are created & killed by same god if you think the good guys are created & killed by a god. This god has to be neutral including both what we call good and bad. There is no paradox :)

 
Has anyone seen God? I think when my car rammed against 3 rocks thus preventing a free fall into oblivion, maybe that was the moment I saw God? Who knows what mysterious force showed mercy on me at a spot where 100s have met their doom..

God has saved your life from the fatal fall.
God / mysterious force showed mercy on you at a spot where 100s have met their doom.
Why the GOD / mysterious force did not save the 100s of persons who met their end at that spot.
Whether God / mysterious force, is giving differential treatment?
Are all not same in the eyes of God?
You are happy that God has saved you?
What about the kith & kin of 100s of persons? God has killed 100s of persons?
 
No, no Renukaji, not just one, you have a forum full of bhaktas.

It is just that the Bhaktas sometimes doubt their Bhaghwan and argue with her, that's all.
 
I have not read all the responses so do excuse me if I have repeated what someone might have already posted. First of all there is no god, as per the Mahabharata when yudhistir asks bhishma who is god, bhishma lists out 1000 names (Vishnu Sahasranamam), each name signifies a certain quality or power or skill that defines god. So any living or non-living thing that possesses all these qualities can be considered god. But is it possible of a single physical entity to posses all these qualities? Its like the PM of a country, PM is a post with certain power, a persona has to go through a process to become a PM, he needs to fulfill certain duties as a PM etc etc, but its not reserved for one person any body who has the caliber can become a PM. Similarly you, me, animals, trees, stone, dust, atoms, molecules etc anthing can rightly take the post of God, the condition being that entity must possess the qualities as mentioned by Bhishma. If an entity possess only 100 qualities then its imperfect as it does not possess the other 900. Its like deve gowda also become a PM and Nehru, Modi have also become PM. But we consider one to be more imperfect than the others. Hence the rishis did not advocate to go in search of God but to perform various rituals, yoga, pranayaams and acquire various Siddhis, and you too can take the post of God. The god is as imperfect as you, the more perfect you try to become god also becomes that much perfect.
 
The issue is that you insist that god has to be a certain way - all good and nice for you!
When you imagine a god like that then you have to call anything else not god.

I say a person has head only over his shoulders. You say the head has to be somewhere else because that is all you have imagined. I say get beyond your imagination and then you will say 'oh yes, head can only be over one's shoulders, not where I think it is'. There will be no paradox then.

The bad guys are created & killed by same god if you think the good guys are created & killed by a god. This god has to be neutral including both what we call good and bad. There is no paradox :)

Yes, I was only challenging the stereotype; as was the paradox...

If this paradox is done away with, all we now need to understand is that there is no entity "God" that consciously creates or kills.

:)
 
Yes, I was only challenging the stereotype; as was the paradox...

If this paradox is done away with, all we now need to understand is that there is no entity "God" that consciously creates or kills.

:)

You are a logical guy here - how did you jump to the last conclusion - "all we now need to understand is that there is no entity "God" that consciously creates or kills." ?? Why the emphasis on word 'consciously' ?
All we can say is 'No one knows' or 'Only god knows' Lol
 
I have not read all the responses so do excuse me if I have repeated what someone might have already posted. First of all there is no god, as per the Mahabharata when yudhistir asks bhishma who is god, bhishma lists out 1000 names (Vishnu Sahasranamam), each name signifies a certain quality or power or skill that defines god. So any living or non-living thing that possesses all these qualities can be considered god. But is it possible of a single physical entity to posses all these qualities? Its like the PM of a country, PM is a post with certain power, a persona has to go through a process to become a PM, he needs to fulfill certain duties as a PM etc etc, but its not reserved for one person any body who has the caliber can become a PM. Similarly you, me, animals, trees, stone, dust, atoms, molecules etc anthing can rightly take the post of God, the condition being that entity must possess the qualities as mentioned by Bhishma. If an entity possess only 100 qualities then its imperfect as it does not possess the other 900. Its like deve gowda also become a PM and Nehru, Modi have also become PM. But we consider one to be more imperfect than the others. Hence the rishis did not advocate to go in search of God but to perform various rituals, yoga, pranayaams and acquire various Siddhis, and you too can take the post of God. The god is as imperfect as you, the more perfect you try to become god also becomes that much perfect.

Thank you Balaji for a very thoughtful post. I do agree on many points, that any animal, plant, dust, molecule can be God. There is nothing particularly special about a species (humans) that make them uniquely qualified because they are made of the same molecules etc.

I think you have hit the nail on the head: there is no perfection. God's creation is deliberately imperfect, because that's what makes things interesting. For example in a perfect solar system, Pluto may be able to support life like Earth, but then what would be interesting about Pluto, or even Earth for that matter?

Even though I am not as wise as Bhishma, let me just stir the pot a bit more. There may be Godly qualities even beyond the 1000 stated. Maybe Duryodhana had some. Otherwise why was he reasonably successful in life? Of course he died. But so did Bheem, eventually.
 
Thank you Balaji for a very thoughtful post. I do agree on many points, that any animal, plant, dust, molecule can be God. There is nothing particularly special about a species (humans) that make them uniquely qualified because they are made of the same molecules etc.

I think you have hit the nail on the head: there is no perfection. God's creation is deliberately imperfect, because that's what makes things interesting. For example in a perfect solar system, Pluto may be able to support life like Earth, but then what would be interesting about Pluto, or even Earth for that matter?

Even though I am not as wise as Bhishma, let me just stir the pot a bit more. There may be Godly qualities even beyond the 1000 stated. Maybe Duryodhana had some. Otherwise why was he reasonably successful in life? Of course he died. But so did Bheem, eventually.

Again it depends on what you define as God.
If Brahman is God, then there is no argument everything is in Brahman, there is nothing other than Brahman.
brahma satyam jagan mithya
jivo brahmaiva napara
Brahman is the Reality, the universe is an illusion,
The living being is Brahman alone, none else.
This statement, though it presents the core teaching in all the Upanishads.
[h=3]Sat-Chit-Ananda Brahman[/h] Although Brahman is beyond description, the Rishis (seers or sages) of yore declared, based on their personal experience, that it can best be described as sat-chit-ananda.
Sat means existence pure and absolute.
Chit means knowledge, or consciousness, pure and absolute.
Ananda means bliss, pure and absolute.
Our true nature is pure existence, knowledge and bliss. Deeply we know it and because of this we cannot settle for being mortal and experiencing any types of limitation to our existence. We have an infinite thirst for knowledge and constant yearning to experience joy.
Yoga is looking for happiness in the Self, the atman, instead of outside ourselves, in the sense objects.
In this definition of Brahman there is no room for any qualification.
 
I am not well versed in scriptures, so I make a slightly rationalistic argument.

Is ananda the only "perfect" state? Or is sadness also an acceptable part of existence?

Is sweet the only good taste? Is bitter always bad?

Can there be birth without death?
 
Again it depends on what you define as God.
If Brahman is God, then there is no argument everything is in Brahman, there is nothing other than Brahman.
brahma satyam jagan mithya
jivo brahmaiva napara
Brahman is the Reality, the universe is an illusion,
The living being is Brahman alone, none else.
This statement, though it presents the core teaching in all the Upanishads.
Sat-Chit-Ananda Brahman

Although Brahman is beyond description, the Rishis (seers or sages) of yore declared, based on their personal experience, that it can best be described as sat-chit-ananda.
Sat means existence pure and absolute.
Chit means knowledge, or consciousness, pure and absolute.
Ananda means bliss, pure and absolute.
Our true nature is pure existence, knowledge and bliss. Deeply we know it and because of this we cannot settle for being mortal and experiencing any types of limitation to our existence. We have an infinite thirst for knowledge and constant yearning to experience joy.
Yoga is looking for happiness in the Self, the atman, instead of outside ourselves, in the sense objects.
In this definition of Brahman there is no room for any qualification.

Mr Prasad ji:

Though I do not understand the significance of what you have written fully, it seems to lend a voice of reason to this discussion.

What is perfect is in the eye of the beholder. A fellow I know who researches on insects thinks they are the most beautiful creatures.

In another thread there was some discussion of human wisdom which I think is special for humans though other species may have other great features.

Striving for perfection itself is a disease :)
 
I have not read all the responses so do excuse me if I have repeated what someone might have already posted. First of all there is no god, as per the Mahabharata when yudhistir asks bhishma who is god, bhishma lists out 1000 names (Vishnu Sahasranamam), each name signifies a certain quality or power or skill that defines god. So any living or non-living thing that possesses all these qualities can be considered god. But is it possible of a single physical entity to posses all these qualities? Its like the PM of a country, PM is a post with certain power, a persona has to go through a process to become a PM, he needs to fulfill certain duties as a PM etc etc, but its not reserved for one person any body who has the caliber can become a PM. Similarly you, me, animals, trees, stone, dust, atoms, molecules etc anthing can rightly take the post of God, the condition being that entity must possess the qualities as mentioned by Bhishma. If an entity possess only 100 qualities then its imperfect as it does not possess the other 900. Its like deve gowda also become a PM and Nehru, Modi have also become PM. But we consider one to be more imperfect than the others. Hence the rishis did not advocate to go in search of God but to perform various rituals, yoga, pranayaams and acquire various Siddhis, and you too can take the post of God. The god is as imperfect as you, the more perfect you try to become god also becomes that much perfect.

Hats off to you.

I really like your answer.

But is there a need for perfection finally?

May be there is no perfection or imperfection to start with..its we humans that have created these 2 states.

May be everything verily Is and its all about acceptance finally.
 
Today morning I was paying my phone bill at the service providers counter and I was the first customer of the day cos I walked in as it opened.

The girl at the counter seemed a bit moody and not too responsive to some questions asked.
But I paid my bill anyways.

Then I thought.."its morning..I am myself moody in the mornings..so may be this girl too has some mood swings"

Then I smiled at her and she finally smiled back.

I think she did not expect a person to smile at her when she was not responsive to me earlier.

Now I am quite sure if anyone else in my place would have got slightly annoyed with her cos she did not actually address a few questions asked earlier.

But why didn't I get annoyed?

The reason is cos I know I too can get moody and not want to communicate especially in the early morning at 8.30am. I myself do not like a patient walking in right away when I open my clinic.
I know I need to 'warm up' before I can respond to human beings.

So here this girl could have been like me..feeling moody to see a customer so early..may be she needed to warm up too.

So I smiled and it seemed to help her slowly break into a smile.

Now since I do not have perfect moods I did not find this girl's Public Relation skills to be all that bad but anyone else would have found it not up to the mark.

So its becos of my 'imperfection' that I feel compassion and tolerance for another..thinking that they could be like me and I do not get angry.

What if a person is near perfect in moods..a person who can start the day normally..no need to 'warm' up..no Monday Blues..no mood swings..I am pretty sure these sort of near perfect individuals would expect perfection and be less compassionate and forgiving becos their mental make up does not know 'imperfection'.

Now lets see this from the macrocosmic point of view.

From the Non Advaitic view God is the Karuna Sagar..the compassionate One who runs to His Bhaktas in time of need as we are made to believe.

So is the Non Advaitic God 'imperfect" in order to have that much compassion?

If God is "perfect" how can He have compassion?

On the other hand if we view God as an eternal witness who does not get involved in the Karmic cycle..only then He can be perfect.

So going by this only the Advaitic view can have a Perfect God and the Non-Advaitic view would deal with a Imperfect God.

So which is it?

Sometimes I wish I could be like any other person who just pays the phone bill and comes home and not suddenly spring into God and Advaita but anyway its a Sunday..time for fun.

Madam,

You are a greatly enlightened soul, and i am diametrically opposite.

Yet I wonder why you are limiting GOD to advaitite etc.

please bear this naivete question of this naive person, but can GOD be limited!

from my childhood i have been made to think God cannot be limited within any circle. perhaps my mindset is wrong. perhaps it is correct.

but i think God and His ways are unfathomable. and i think i am correct at least in this one thing.

please correct me if i am wrong even in this.

thanks a million in advance madam!
 
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