Ilavarasan & Divya

[palindrome]

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palindrome,

hope i can combine all my responses. it is not much, as i have stated all that i know

hindu heritage for me is appreciation of the great temple of thanjavur, feeling ownership of ponniyin selvan, the feel of the kalpathi car festival, the feel of the kapali temple atmosphere and the 63 nayanmar procession as well as the ther festival, sekkizhar, kamban, bharathiar, rameswaram, tamil saivism etc.

it is my feeling, that any lover of tamil can appreciate most of the above, but a tamil hindu has a sense of 'handed down heritage' to these things. that is the best i can explain. it is a personal thing.

re sociology of the castes, i dont know. all i know in the village, kombai, where my friend lived, these things happened, and i dont talk or probe into those things. people say stuff, and i note it down in my memory. and occassionally it comes out during a post. that is all.

re PMK, i would imagine after this incident, they would be in big do-do. except that tamil nadu politics has no shame or morals. quite possible DMK might make overtures, considering that ADMK is bent on continued arrest of kaduvetti guru, and indemnation for the damages in marakkanam village.

let us see, how the tamil society deals, once the shock and sadness wears off.

incidentally, the face book postings of the opponents show no remorse. and just yesterday a caste society was inaugurated in dubai - yes non brahmin & non dalit...all other tamil middle castes. the polarization is for the time being appears complete.

but, still i have not heard, and it does not mean that it has not happened, the progressive voices of middle caste youths, condemning this incidents. the only youths i see in facebook or blogs, are the diehard casteists, and boy, these really use vicious words and promise vicious actions. wow!!

no wonder, the dalits were screwed, with these type of attitudes.

we might now want to remember, that things like kilvenmani, did not happen at random. it is based on generations of domination and hatred and contempt. attitudes i am familiar with, my own family of previous generation, but not the violence. today venmani is peaceful but only after the perpetrator was murdered, it was felt, that justice was done.

thyagu, who went to jail for 15 years for this revenge, acted as a naxalite. today he is a tamil nationalist, calling for an independent tamil nadu, with links to eelam. i dont know if ilavarasan death would rally certain tamil groups towards tamil nationalism, and provide it with a shot in the arm.

the blogs and facebook is active on this front, with organized activity coming from these folks. not the leftists.

A very well written post sir. Absolutely true to the every point.

Yes i agree caste promotion is done by youth...i beleive they are misguided by elders (ie, rabidly casteist elders). This is precisely why awareness is so important. Which is why thru this forum i frequently tell folks (especially newcomers) not to get swayed by something as fictitious as caste. Or a manufactured varna.

Our parents, uncles, aunts, grandparents are not perfect. So do not assume our forefathers were perfect. They were ruthless. Put simply, it was survival of the fittest in those times based on pointers of its period. Today we live in a different period. It is best to move with time and tide. What we decide to believe in today will matter tomorrow. For our children.

Thankyou sir.

 

[Delhi6]

That is, by those who created, upheld and still uphold smritis as THE way of life for all 'hindus'. Its not just mutts, the varna scheme of hierarchical order has political support from the hindutva lobby too.

I am not a great fan of either smritis or Hindutva but hasn't Hindu nationalism been against regressive casteism even prior to Independence. I mean from Mahatma Gandhi's Hindu-lite to Savarkar both were against horrors of untouchability. With Modi's ascension as de facto PM candidate, hasn't Sangh signalled that its willing to share power with erstwhile obc's?

Or do you think its merely a ruse? As in Hindutva is an exclusivist ideology and seeks to broaden its appeal by demarcating and demonising the 'other'. This may help to broaden the base but it also shrinks the inner core by attrition along the lines of purer than pure or who is more true to the ideology. Since Brahmins in India were traditionally the arbiters of legitimacy, do you fear that in this battle of attrition Brahmins of hindutva lobby will regain that role and would fashion a new variant of varnaashram system?

 

[Nara]

I am not a great fan of either smritis or Hindutva but hasn't Hindu nationalism been against regressive casteism even prior to Independence. I mean from Mahatma Gandhi's Hindu-lite to Savarkar both were against horrors of untouchability.

Delhi6's assertion that Mahatma Gandhi was against casteism is totally false. Gandhi wrote a rejoinder to Babasaheb Ambedkar's pamphlet, "Annihilation of Caste" in which he defended the Varna system and tried to differentiate it from caste. Babasaheb wrote a response and roundly thrashed all the arguments of Gandhi in defense of Varna which differs from caste only superficially.

Just wanted to correct the erroneous claim .....

best regards .....

 

[Delhi6]

Delhi6's assertion that Mahatma Gandhi was against casteism is totally false. Gandhi wrote a rejoinder to Babasaheb Ambedkar's pamphlet, "Annihilation of Caste" in which he defended the Varna system and tried to differentiate it from caste. Babasaheb wrote a response and roundly thrashed all the arguments of Gandhi in defense of Varna which differs from caste only superficially.

Just wanted to correct the erroneous claim .....

best regards .....

Nara Sir,

I know Mahatma Gandhi defended Varna Ashram system. My point was very limited. I meant he was against untouchability. I didn't mean to imply anything more.

 

[Nara]

Nara Sir,

I know Mahatma Gandhi defended Varna Ashram system. My point was very limited. I meant he was against untouchability. I didn't mean to imply anything more.

Dear Delhi6, I apologize if you think I am belaboring the point, but I think it must be stated, sorry. I am aware that Mahatma Gandhi was against untouchability. But I do think he was either intellectually dishonest, or unbelievably ill-informed to have defended the varna system while opposing untouchability as though they are unrelated. Varna system is the "intellectual" basis for untouchability, yet Gandhi saw fit to defend it.

Cheers!

 

[palindrome]

With Modi's ascension as de facto PM candidate, hasn't Sangh signalled that its willing to share power with erstwhile obc's?

This is a difficult question. I believe Modi is good for corporate india. As also for an india with strong military capabilities. However, you have brought caste into the equation with this question. From caste point alone, I do not think Modi helps sangh parivar's image. The message of brahmin-bania unity is apparent. The sangh has a very long way to go in creating a pro-dalit stance for itself.

Also, 'Team Modi' (who i believe are RSS cadres) run all over the media projecting him like a hindutva savior. This is like hitting nails on one's own head. There were several riots in gujarat (under congress rule and mismanagement), but hindutva lobby has created a muslim slayer image out of modi based on one event. Thru all this, the sangh conveys a trite message -- that it will elevate anyone who propagates its 'ideals'.

Since Brahmins in India were traditionally the arbiters of legitimacy, do you fear that in this battle of attrition Brahmins of hindutva lobby will regain that role and would fashion a new variant of varnaashram system?

If a new variant (which helps everyone along) comes about, it wud not be so bad. The prob is all upper caste leaders supporting varna system speak of its old glories. There is no question of creating new texts or altering old texts to benefit others; or to make it suitable for the times. So far its been about fooling and misguiding the ignorant to drum up support for the varna system.

 

[auh]

A second autopsy has been demanded by the boy's family.

It would be out of place to speculate now, and in any case, we wouldn't know the extent of truth in the media reports. When a news gains the media glare, it is not uncommon for even sworn enemies to become the best of f(r)iends.

 

[palindrome]

When a news gains the media glare, it is not uncommon for even sworn enemies to become the best of f(r)iends.

So true. For political gain, anything can happen. With people and politics, inclusivism in India is a pipedream. Says a lot about Indians. But we are never ashamed, are we?