How do we identify a saint from a charlatan?

[prasad1]

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If you are not able to be objective and debate this point, this thread may not be for you. Please skip it.


In another thread, I was blamed for not believing in the so-called proclaimed Siddha Purush.
I have seen too many AsaRam Bapu, and Nityananda of the world to have faith in these dhongi babas. I was not born yesterday to be fooled by such charlatans.

Distinguishing between a genuine spiritual figure (a "saint") and a charlatan can be challenging, especially when personal beliefs, emotions, and cultural backgrounds play significant roles in one's perception. Nonetheless, certain indicators can be helpful. Here are some considerations:

Consistency of Behavior and Teachings: True saints typically lead by example. Their actions align with their teachings. Charlatans might demonstrate inconsistencies between what they preach and how they act.

Motivation: Saints are typically motivated by love, compassion, and a desire to help others. Conversely, Charlatans might be driven by a desire for power, fame, or wealth.

Signs of Humility vs. Ego: Genuine spiritual leaders often exhibit humility, recognizing that they are but one of many on the spiritual path. Charlatans might exhibit a pronounced ego, seeking admiration, special treatment, or a following.

Financial Matters: A clear sign of a charlatan can be the excessive emphasis on money or material gains. While organizations led by genuine spiritual figures may need funds for upkeep and charitable works, excessive luxury, personal enrichment, or aggressive fundraising can be red flags.

Openness to Questions and Scrutiny: A genuine spiritual teacher is open to questions and is not threatened by skepticism. In contrast, charlatans often react negatively to scrutiny or questioning.

Universality vs. Exclusivity: Genuine spiritual leaders usually promote universal values and do not claim that they alone possess the "one true path." Charlatans may insist that only their way is right and might discourage followers from exploring other beliefs or paths.

Treatment of Followers: A genuine spiritual leader respects the autonomy and individuality of their followers. Charlatans might be manipulative, control-oriented, or even abusive.

Feedback from Others: While one should be wary of jumping to conclusions based solely on rumors or unverified accounts, consistent negative feedback or troubling reports about a spiritual figure can be a warning sign.

Miracles and Supernatural Claims: Both genuine saints and charlatans might be associated with miraculous events. It's essential to approach such claims with both an open mind and a healthy dose of skepticism. Investigate the context and credibility of these claims.

Personal Intuition: Trust your intuition. If something feels off or too good to be true, it's worth taking a step back and reflecting on whether your feelings are grounded.

External Verification: In many religious traditions, there are processes in place to formally recognize or canonize saints. While this isn't foolproof, such processes often involve careful investigation and verification of the individual's life, teachings, and any associated miracles.

Long-Term Impact: Often, the true measure of a spiritual figure can be seen in the long-term impact of their teachings. Do they lead to positive changes in people's lives? Do their teachings inspire compassion, understanding, and growth? Or do they lead to division, rigidity, and harm?

Remember that everyone is human and can have flaws, even genuine spiritual figures. It's essential to approach the topic with an open heart and a discerning mind.

 

[prasad1]

The phenomenon of religious figures or leaders turning out to be charlatans is not unique to Hinduism; it is observed in many religions and spiritual traditions around the world. There are several reasons why this might occur:

Power and Influence: Religious and spiritual leaders often hold positions of power and influence. Some individuals might be attracted to these roles more for the power they confer than for genuine spiritual reasons. Once in such a position, it can be tempting for some to abuse their power for personal gain.

Financial Gain: Leading a religious group or being a spiritual guru can bring with it significant financial benefits through donations, offerings, or charges for services. Some might be more attracted to these potential financial gains than to genuine spiritual service.

Social Status: In many cultures, including in India, religious leaders are held in high esteem and respect. For someone seeking social status or validation, becoming a spiritual leader can be an attractive option.

Lack of Accountability: In many religious and spiritual groups, there is no central authority or governing body that oversees the activities and behaviors of its leaders. This lack of oversight can make it easier for charlatans to operate without being held accountable.

Cultural and Social Factors: In societies where religious and spiritual beliefs are deeply embedded, there might be a greater number of people looking for spiritual guidance. This can create a demand for spiritual leaders, some of whom might not be genuine.

Personal Flaws: Even if someone begins their spiritual journey with genuine intentions, they can fall prey to their own flaws, temptations, or weaknesses over time.

Naïveté of Followers: Often, followers, especially those new to a spiritual path, may not have the discernment to identify a genuine leader from a charlatan. This can allow fake leaders to exploit unsuspecting individuals.

It's important to note that while there are charlatans in every religion, there are also many sincere, genuine, and selfless leaders who genuinely strive to guide their followers on a righteous and spiritual path. It's crucial for individuals to exercise discernment and critical thinking when choosing who to follow, and not to generalize based on a few negative examples.

 

[prasad1]

"Siddha Purush" refers to a realized or perfected being in various spiritual traditions of India, particularly in the Siddha tradition, which is predominant in Tamil Nadu. Such beings are believed to have achieved a high level of spiritual realization, mastery over their physical bodies, and even the attainment of various mystical powers (siddhis).

The challenge in universally accepting any particular individual as a "Siddha Purush" lies in the subjective nature of spiritual experiences and realizations. Here are a few reasons why:

Variation in Traditions: Different spiritual traditions have different criteria and definitions of what constitutes a "Siddha" or realized being. While there might be overlap, the specifics can differ.

Subjective Experiences: Spiritual experiences are deeply personal. One person's experience or realization might differ from another's. Hence, universally accepting a person as a Siddha Purush based on experiences could be challenging.

Claims vs. Reality: Throughout history, many individuals have claimed to be realized beings, or others have made such claims on their behalf. Differentiating genuine claims from exaggerations or fabrications can be challenging without direct personal experience.

Cultural Differences: What is considered a profound spiritual realization in one culture might not be viewed the same way in another. This difference in perspective can hinder the universal acceptance of a Siddha Purush.

Proof and Validation: Spiritual attainments are not like scientific experiments that can be repeatedly tested and validated. Most of these realizations are internal and subjective, making them difficult to externally validate.

Historical Figures: There have been numerous figures throughout history, like the Siddhars in Tamil traditions, who are recognized as Siddha Purushas. However, their lives and achievements often become intertwined with legends, making it challenging to distinguish historical fact from myth.

That said, many spiritual masters and teachers are widely respected and accepted within their specific traditions and even across different spiritual paths. Individuals like Ramana Maharshi, Nisargadatta Maharaj, and various Siddhars from the Tamil tradition are examples of such figures. Still, universal acceptance is a tall order given the complexities involved.

If one is interested in recognizing or following a Siddha Purush, it's essential to trust your intuition, do thorough research, and perhaps most importantly, evaluate the teachings and presence of the individual in question. A genuine spiritual teacher often points the way beyond themselves, guiding seekers toward their inner truth rather than cultivating dependency.

 

[renuka]

Dear Prasad ji,
I feel I did not blame you for not believing in Siddha Purusha.
I usually dont reject any idea right away.
Even in the criminal justice system, one is innocent until proven guilty.

Self proclaimed fraudulent "siddhas" are many too and mostly could also be well trained in occult and negative tantra.

There are many selfless siddhas/saints who have really guided human beings to the right path too.

In the other thread, I wrote about Milarepa.
He was a well known enlightened being in Tibet.
He didnt lead anyone astray or swindled anyone of money or got involved with any sexual scandal.
So why have a doubt about him?

Would anyone of us want to deny that Ramana Maharishi was a siddha?
Surely not..he has transformed many people.

Some part of our intuition usually tells us right from wrong but at times the scales can tilt..that is either we go into total denial or blind faith...both are actually the same.
Blind faith lands us in danger of over dependency and total denial seals our hearts, both block the effect of "Aano bhadra krtavo yantu vishvatah"( Let noble thoughts come to me from all directions)

 

[prasad1]

Dear Prasad ji,
I feel I did not blame you for not believing in Siddha Purusha.
I usually dont reject any idea right away.
Even in the criminal justice system, one is innocent until proven guilty.

Self proclaimed fraudulent "siddhas" are many too and mostly could also be well trained in occult and negative tantra.

There are many selfless siddhas/saints who have really guided human beings to the right path too.

In the other thread, I wrote about Milarepa.
He was a well known enlightened being in Tibet.
He didnt lead anyone astray or swindled anyone of money or got involved with any sexual scandal.
So why have a doubt about him?

Would anyone of us want to deny that Ramana Maharishi was a siddha?
Surely not..he has transformed many people.

Some part of our intuition usually tells us right from wrong but at times the scales can tilt..that is either we go into total denial or blind faith...both are actually the same.
Blind faith lands us in danger of over dependency and total denial seals our hearts, both block the effect of "Aano bhadra krtavo yantu vishvatah"( Let noble thoughts come to me from all directions)

I see the glass half empty, so I can fill it up. Yes, I am a skeptic.

 

[renuka]

I see the glass half empty, so I can fill it up. Yes, I am a skeptic.

I hope someday I dont see the glass too.

 

[prasad1]

I hope someday I dont see the glass too.

It can be arranged.

 

[renuka]

It can be arranged.
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Lol