Bhagavata Purana Question

[malgova.mango]

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thank you sir,

See my point.... Puranas are of real help to people without Vedic Studies. Why should we dilute their sanctity?

"Shruti,Smriti Purananam Aalayam Karunaalayam
Namami Bhagavat Padancha Shankaram Loka Shankaram"

Sorry for being impertinent Sir. You are a Bhakta,Devi Upasaka and have avid interest in spiritual field.I appeal to you that you should guide and benefit us Aasthikas Sir.

Regards

 

[s007bala]

Youtube

SB!

Don't ever visit "youtube.com" .Your faith with "Sathya" may be shaken to the core.

Regards

M M

Only if Sathya wants to shake my faith to the core,it's possible.My whole faith in him,stems from Shirdi Sai Baba.When Mahans like him will thru their Sankalpa,then only we can even have a darshanam.Mahaswamigal not only said that to my family but also proved it to me.We are like iron filings.The Mahans are the magnet.Depends on the magnectic field for the attraction to exist,maybe a thought i ponder sometime.

Anyways,your advice is well taken,in the right spirit.You are in any case our " Mambazathhu Vandu "..

:nerd:

sb

:boink:

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

thank you sir,

See my point.... Puranas are of real help to people without Vedic Studies. Why should we dilute their sanctity?

"Shruti,Smriti Purananam Aalayam Karunaalayam
Namami Bhagavat Padancha Shankaram Loka Shankaram"

Sorry for being impertinent Sir. You are a Bhakta,Devi Upasaka and have avid interest in spiritual field.I appeal to you that you should guide and benefit us Aasthikas Sir.

Regards

Thank you. MM.

I have started many threads about specific aspects of Hinduism. For example I wrote extensively about Bhakthi.

I am a ultra conservative when it comes to religion. I think that Slokas should not be sung as songs, mantras should not be turned into songs, Puranas should not misinterpreted and new stories added by the TV serials. I am totally against religious serials and movies. I can go on. But these are my private views.

But then every individual has two roles. One as a private individual doing what pleases him/her and answerable only to Guru and GOD.

The second role is that of the Social Individual where one is a member of the social order. Where you have to exist peacefully with the others in the society. I also believe that every individual has social obligations.

Many of my threads reflect me as a social individual. i am a religious conservative who tries to be socially progressive. My hero in this is Sri Ramnujacharya. He upheld religious values. But then he also went to the top of the temple tower and shouted out the Mantras for others to learn. Here he was a socially progressive individual. He converted lower castes into Brahmins ( that is what I was told). He differed with his Guru when he thought he was right. So I worship him.

I believe if we had a number of Ramanujacharyas we would not be in this position today.

We have had a number of religions conservatives in our community who were socially progressive. They opposed Child marriage, Untouchability, canvassed for widow remarriage, fought for ending the deva dasi system and so on. Many of these were dyed in the wool conservatives when it came to their own religious practice.

We should preserve our Religion and Culture. But both religion and Culture concern only the individual. But if they come in conflict with the Society, these should be discarded. The Society and the Country is greater.

Yes. I am unhappy with the temple priest all over India. They lack the shraddha, bhakti and knowledge of the rituals which are the prerequisite for a temple priest. I have seen it in a few temples. Very small ones with no income. The pujas performed by these dedicated Brahmins is a pleasure to watch.

Just my point of view.

 

[prpsarathy]

priest are bhakta but professionals

Hi,

Why single out priest in the temple. what is the attitude other brahmins towards priest ?

This reminds of a conversation which i had with one old gentlemen who was associated with kanchi madam.

He asked me questions about the place and my views. As any employee i had my own grudges and irritation in spite of the bank is a good pay master. He said that is the attitude of the temple priest towards the temple and the profession.

From that day, i have stopped saying anything about them but to change myself and my attitude towards my work and profession.

Further assist the temple priest. They are the weakest in our community for the DK / DMK, to target not the one who are in profession as they are well networked.

Further if you look at the attitude of all brahmins, the smart guys moved to profession and not look up on the learning of vedas. AFter achieving economic self reliance then they look back.

IN olden days, the kings provided the self reliance for the priest now who is there. I would say the priest in the city are more ambitious due to associational hazard.

However if you go to the villages and padastalam they live in a very backward position. Our sect of hinduism says serve the servants of lord but what does our well of brahmins brethen do ?

Sometime i feel we are got in knowledge game where as our literature clearly says that the knowledge cannot reach the lord but for love for god and recognize god in all living beings.

 

[prpsarathy]

priest are not bhakta but professionals - pls correct the heading

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

Hi,

Why single out priest in the temple. what is the attitude other brahmins towards priest ?

This reminds of a conversation which i had with one old gentlemen who was associated with kanchi madam.

He asked me questions about the place and my views. As any employee i had my own grudges and irritation in spite of the bank is a good pay master. He said that is the attitude of the temple priest towards the temple and the profession.

From that day, i have stopped saying anything about them but to change myself and my attitude towards my work and profession.

Further assist the temple priest. They are the weakest in our community for the DK / DMK, to target not the one who are in profession as they are well networked.

Further if you look at the attitude of all brahmins, the smart guys moved to profession and not look up on the learning of vedas. AFter achieving economic self reliance then they look back.

IN olden days, the kings provided the self reliance for the priest now who is there. I would say the priest in the city are more ambitious due to associational hazard.

However if you go to the villages and padastalam they live in a very backward position. Our sect of hinduism says serve the servants of lord but what does our well of brahmins brethen do ?

Sometime i feel we are got in knowledge game where as our literature clearly says that the knowledge cannot reach the lord but for love for god and recognize god in all living beings.

I agree. I have written in many posts about the plight of the Priests, position in society and their neglect by other Tamil Brahmins. But then any profession involves basically commitment, Knowledge etc. That is why we do have good and bad professionals. The normal priest is a bad professional. Not only in Tamil Nadu, but the whole of India.

I am a person who spends a lot of time in temples. I can even call myself an Ambala Vasi. So I know the temple priests.

For example in many temples especially in Kerala where the Murtis have a Mula Mantra with which they are consecrated, the Mula mantra has been forgotten.

It is a degeneration of Hinduism over the last thousands of years.

 

[s007bala]

The plight of Temple priests today is,Bhakthi has got diluted for them owing to constant interference of Temple Management in scriptural teachings.Today the Temple Donor,is the god for the Temple Priest,not the Mooladhara Vigraha.Of course not all temple priests have honorable intentions too.They can be exceedingly arrogant in their behaviour,which is why they are detested sometimes.I cut them slack or sometimes fire the crap out of them....

sb

 

[prpsarathy]

small temple

Hi,

When i was in mambalam we had a small temple. The priest is a highly devoted person. Today it has become big. It has been taken over by so called devotees and he and his adopt son has been thrown out saying that the person is not qualified.

Nowa days i fear to go their as the devotion has gone and it is only the rule which is going on.

But we must try to help them out to come of their economic plight.

 

[s007bala]

Avatar Leela

I remember an incident in Kolkatta while i was working there.I had an oppurtunity to participate in a Shirdi Sai Baba Temple activities.The senior lady was a staunch believer of Bhagavan Sathya Sai Baba once,and apparently fell out of favor from Bhakthi towards him,and started her bhakthi towards Shirdi Sai Baba.

One day,after cursing Bhagavan Sathya Sai Baba,resoundly,she showed a gold pendant more like a locket,materialised by Swami to her .As usual in my mischievous pranks,i told ,since you do not believe him anymore,why do you still hold on to it.Why don't you hand it over to me.I believe in all.

The locket was made in gold,and inside the locket was an exquisite artfully photgraphed picture,of Shirdi Sai Baba,Sathya Sai Baba and Bhagavan Krishna.It was an out of the world,masterpiece,a collectors item.I would have paid,the market rate for the extra-ordinary artifact.

To my surprise,she refused to part with it,and told me,never to go to Puttaparthi,and all horrible gory details of Swami,as she perceived him.

The moral of the incident for me was,people are more enamored,with market value products,than the person who actually is the source of all market value products.

Mentally,i did a Sharanagathi Prostration to Bhagavan Sathya Sai Baba,and slowly got out of her domain of influence.She even suggested a nice Telegu Brahmin girl for me,as she felt i am bhayangara exuberant with my zany and outlandish thoughts.I hope her daughter did something with it.I guess Avatar's have their own leelas.

sb :hail:

 

[malgova.mango]

SB!

I thoroughly enjoy you wit and humor. Probably they may have posted too much of HIS leela. So I thought of warning you.

Regards

 

[s007bala]

M M

Vandu roopathila wandhu swayam bhagavan solrar pole irrukku

sb

 

[malgova.mango]

Nachhi!

My reply...

Thank you. MM.

But then every individual has two roles. One as a private individual doing what pleases him/her and answerable only to Guru and GOD.

God is ALMIGHTY - VEDAS are his breathe - you live as much as possible in tune with kala, varta AND desa..order then you please HIM automatically. Even if you can't because of time, I see writing against the very ORDER is dangerous.

It is like advising people to rub against a "sora sora tree" .

The second role is that of the Social Individual where one is a member of the social order. Where you have to exist peacefully with the others in the society. I also believe that every individual has social obligations.

Did anyone here ask to go against peace. ?

Social Order is also HIM. GOD is not living in a remote space - HE manifest the universe and also give us a manual on how to live for the benefit of all.

Do you recognise that.? Do you see the importance or not? Common answer me directly.

Many of my threads reflect me as a social individual. i am a religious conservative who tries to be socially progressive.

In the name of progression , there is only retro-gression. For our intelligency is too puny to bring out the welfare for all. Do you recognise that? Are you aware of that?

My hero in this is Sri Ramnujacharya. He upheld religious values. But then he also went to the top of the temple tower and shouted out the Mantras for others to learn.

Good - I've nothing against him.

Here he was a socially progressive individual. He converted lower castes into Brahmins ( that is what I was told).

there is no lower castes - the lower or upper is branti Gnana / complex - a disease. Bhagwan went to doors of bhaktas irregardless of jati - "Periya Puranam" confirms.

He differed with his Guru when he thought he was right. So I worship him.

I've no comments with whom you worship.
But , allow me t observe a bit differently - he didn't consider that his guru could also be right. anyway people like who make statues of themselves for adoration are there in our land

I believe if we had a number of Ramanujacharyas we would not be in this position today.
one has 100% freedom in believing anything.
We have had a number of religions conservatives in our community who were socially progressive. They opposed Child marriage, Untouchability, canvassed for widow remarriage, fought for ending the deva dasi system and so on. Many of these were dyed in the wool conservatives when it came to their own religious practice.

child marraige - I think marraige at the prime vigor of youth will produce healthy off-springs , our fore-parents are testimony , they lived 100 yrs w/o any major disease or illness. Now 50++ you need all the test and tablets

also love last here as the idea of any other as one's spouse is rejected.

also the in-laws acceptance is more as the chance of MIL seeing DIL as daughter.

So there are positives, I'm also aware of negatives ....

Untouchability - Again I see it as a complex/branti issue overblown, If someone say hey Im not going to touch you - I'd say thats ok - you exercise your freedom.

Widow remarraige - I've made my stance in one of the conversation with kunjuppu.

We should preserve our Religion and Culture. But both religion and Culture concern only the individual. But if they come in conflict with the Society, these should be discarded. The Society and the Country is greater.

Society should acknowledge the superiority and beneficial qualities of scriptures - It is complete ULTA. So as AASTHIKAS we should highlight the virtues that a society get from follwoing the scriptures.

Society should bend to Scriptures not otherwise.

Yes. I am unhappy with the temple priest all over India. They lack the shraddha, bhakti and knowledge of the rituals which are the prerequisite for a temple priest. I have seen it in a few temples. Very small ones with no income. The pujas performed by these dedicated Brahmins is a pleasure to watch.

I had pleasant experience, I found them kind, considerate, sound in knowledge etc...

Just my point of view.
I'm of the hope you review your view...........

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

Just my point of view.
I'm of the hope you review your view...........

Have I ever asked you to change your views? No I do not ask anyone to change his views. I am not trying to prove anything to anyone. I present my views. You have presented your view. It is for the viewers (members and non-members) to decide. It is as simple as that.

I would like other members to comment on the concept of Religious Conservative and socially Progressive individual.

 

[malgova.mango]

You say progressive, I say retrogressive.

I never asked you to change, but wants to consider, a request , that's all.

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

God is ALMIGHTY - VEDAS are his breathe - you live as much as possible in tune with kala, varta AND desa..order then you please HIM automatically. Even if you can't because of time, I see writing against the very ORDER is dangerous.

It is like advising people to rub against a "sora sora tree" .

GOD is fortunately not the exclusive property of a section of the Vaidic Brahmins. About writing against the order, I am sure this is what the Purva Mimansa people said about Adi Sankaracharya.

Did anyone here ask to go against peace. ?

Social Order is also HIM. GOD is not living in a remote space - HE manifest the universe and also give us a manual on how to live for the benefit of all.

Do you recognise that.? Do you see the importance or not? Common answer me directly.

Which manual are you talking about. Manu, Yagnavalkya, Abasthamba, Baudhayan? There are 18 accepted Dharma Sasthras. Manu has clearly stated that you should not move out of Arya Varta. Even the wildest imagination does not include Tamil Nadu in Arya Varta. Again if all the Dharma Sasthras agree on everything why do we have so many?

We have been rewriting/breaking the Dharma Sasthra for long to suit our convenience. The Dharmasasthra prohibits going to Mileccha Desa. See page 5 of Samshepa Dharma Sasthram, by Manchakudi Venkatrama Sasthirigal. See Page 12 - 19 of the book for the duties of the Brahmins. See Page 215 -222 regarding approved food and food habits.If we apply all those rules there will be hardly a few thousands who can still be called Brahmins in Tamil Nadu.

In the name of progression , there is only retro-gression. For our
intelligency is too puny to bring out the welfare for all. Do you recognise that? Are
you aware of that?

I am a Brahmin with a long lineage dating back to antiquity. I am Yagnavalkya's descendant. I believe I can change the world.

here is no lower castes - the lower or upper is branti Gnana / complex - a
disease. Bhagwan went to doors of bhaktas irregardless of jati -"Periya Puranam"
confirms.

Now you quote Peria Puranam and not any of the Dharma Sasthras. Are you saying that you do not accept the caste system mentioned in the Dharma Sasthras?

child marriage - I think marriage at the prime vigor of youth will produce healthy off-springs , our fore-parents are testimony , they lived 100 yrs w/o any major disease or illness. Now 50++ you need all the test and tablets

also love last here as the idea of any other as one's spouse is rejected.

also the in-laws acceptance is more as the chance of MIL seeing DIL as daughter.

So there are positives, I'm also aware of negatives ....

Untouchability - Again I see it as a complex/branti issue overblown, If someone say hey Im not going to touch you - I'd say thats ok - you exercise your freedom.

Widow remarriage - I've made my stance in one of the conversation with kunjuppu.

So you are in favour of Child marriage.

I have seen some post of yours defending the practice of Sathi.

Untouchability is overblown you say. Do you support two tumbler system?

You are vague about widow remarriage. Do you accept it?

Society should acknowledge the superiority and beneficial qualities of scriptures - It is complete ULTA. So as AASTHIKAS we should highlight the virtues that a society get from following the scriptures.

Society should bend to Scriptures not otherwise.

The Dharma Sasthras lay down punishments like dipping your hand in boiling oil to prove your innocence and other more inhuman tortures. It also approves and supports slavery and lays down rules for Brahmins becoming slaves for repayment of a debt and other crimes.

We have done away with all these inhuman practices. Support for Dharmasasthras without any question or finding out their compatibility to the modern times means approving slavery, torture among other things.

If the Brahmins had accepted the status quo and stopped thinking originally we would have never had Upanishads.

"Nerrikkan Thirappinum Kurram Kurrame" said one of our Tamil Brahmin ancestors.

 

[malgova.mango]

replies

GOD is fortunately not the exclusive property of a section of the Vaidic Brahmins. About writing against the order, I am sure this is what the Purva Mimansa people said about Adi Sankaracharya.

what is your understanding about "GOD" ?


Which manual are you talking about. Manu, Yagnavalkya, Abasthamba, Baudhayan? There are 18 accepted Dharma Sasthras. Manu has clearly stated that you should not move out of Arya Varta. Even the wildest imagination does not include Tamil Nadu in Arya Varta. Again if all the Dharma Sasthras agree on everything why do we have so many?

the answers are given by Mahaswami. You should be aware of it.

We have been rewriting/breaking the Dharma Sasthra for long to suit our convenience.

minor adjustments could be there. but for structrual issues like VARNA DHARMA neither there is conflict b/ween smiritis nor it is negated in any of the scriptures.

The Dharmasasthra prohibits going to Mileccha Desa. See page 5 of Samshepa Dharma Sasthram, by Manchakudi Venkatrama Sasthirigal. See Page 12 - 19 of the book for the duties of the Brahmins. See Page 215 -222 regarding approved food and food habits.If we apply all those rules there will be hardly a few thousands who can still be called Brahmins in Tamil Nadu.


What is your understanding of "Millecha"?

I am a Brahmin with a long lineage dating back to antiquity. I am Yagnavalkya's descendant. I believe I can change the world.

no comments...

Now you quote Peria Puranam and not any of the Dharma Sasthras. Are you saying that you do not accept the caste system mentioned in the Dharma Sasthras?

In periya puranam, adiyars followed their dharma ordained by their birth and attained the "Lotus feet" - that's the beauty of the periyapuranam

I see no conflict , instead harmony with Jati system in PP so I quoted purposely.


So you are in favour of Child marriage.

Well - I've listed the merits - yes I favour

I have seen some post of yours defending the practice of Sathi.

this is a coarse observation - subtle point is I support the decision of a Pati Vratai. Any Vratam - should be strictly on a voulantary basis.
I also acknowledege this is severly abused.
Untouchability is overblown you say. Do you support two tumbler system?
I said the abuses are the malaise that plagued our society, I'm blissfully unaware of 2 tumbler system - neither I want to know - if there is abuse , it should be eschewed.
You are vague about widow remarriage. Do you accept it?
again it depends on individual, circumstances - i've seen many abathams in the past, where young bride is married to old man and to suffer for life.
it is better to remarry in those cases.
The Dharma Sasthras lay down punishments like dipping your hand in boiling oil to prove your innocence and other more inhuman tortures.
I've read DS - I never come across like what you said. I know "thanda neethi" is severe , but it is only for the convict.
It also approves and supports slavery and lays down rules for Brahmins becoming slaves for repayment of a debt and other crimes.
from where you quote this - lets do an enquiry about this - you give me the source - I'll check with experts and come-back
We have done away with all these inhuman practices. Support for Dharmasasthras without any question or finding out their compatibility to the modern times means approving slavery, torture among other things.

If the Brahmins had accepted the status quo and stopped thinking originally we would have never had Upanishads.

see your version of how the puranas,vedas came is in direct conflict with traditional account. so i couldn't validate what you are saying.

"Nerrikkan Thirappinum Kurram Kurrame"
lets have an open enquiry to check the kuttrams

said one of our Tamil Brahmin ancestors.

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

I will quote only two of your answers.

I wrote

The Dharmasasthra prohibits going to Mileccha Desa. See page 5 of Samshepa Dharma Sasthram, by Manchakudi Venkatrama Sasthirigal. See Page 12 - 19 of the book for the duties of the Brahmins. See Page 215 -222 regarding approved food and food habits.If we apply all those rules there will be hardly a few thousands who can still be called Brahmins in Tamil Nadu.

Your answer

What is your understanding of "Millecha"?

Why are you avoiding that question about food habits? About Milecha you look up any book on Hinduism and Dharmasasthra. Have you even heard of this book?

I wrote

Untouchability is overblown you say. Do you support two tumbler system?

Yoiur answer

I said the abuses are the malaise that plagued our society, I'm blissfully unaware of 2 tumbler system - neither I want to know - if there is abuse , it should be eschewed.

You must be the only adult in Tamil Nadu who has not heard of this. Or you do not want to know harsh facts?

Your reply

lets have an open enquiry to check the kuttrams

Discussions can be had only when both parties have an open mind. According to you Jati is the sum and substance of Hinduism. You can only quote one person in defence of all your views. Not any scriptures or their interpretations. I know now your views on some of the problems faced/ being faced by our society.

It is said that you can wake a person who is asleep, but you can never wake up a person who is pretending to be asleep.

Why should I try? It is an exercise in futility.

You can have the final word my friend.

 

[s007bala]

>>You can only quote one person in defence of all your views. Not any scriptures or their interpretations.<<

Shri Nacchinarkiniyan

It's just not one person,it's THE person's of all person's.he is quoting.Of course i am assuming he is quoting Mahaswami Of Kanchi.I believe Mahaswami has quipped "Ennodo Periavaal Yaaravudu Irunda Poi Kaylu" ROFL.One of those rare trailblazers of our time.Don't you think so?

sb

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

Sorry. With all due respects to Paramachariyar who was a great realised soul I do not. Majority of the Hindus even many Tamil Brahmins do not accept his ideas.

 

[s007bala]

Swami

Sorry. With all due respects to Paramachariyar who was a great realised soul I do not. Majority of the Hindus even many Tamil Brahmins do not accept his ideas.

Bhagavan Sathya Sai Baba has extensively spoken,written,teaches/taught...a virtual encyclopedia from eons beyond comprehension...an avatara purushar.....

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

I do not believe in Sathya Sai Baba also. I do not believe in any Godman/woman or human Avatharas. Sorry. Bala.

 

[s007bala]

Cool sir.You yourself are divine Shri Nacchinarkiniyan.

sb

 

[s007bala]

Dharma

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica] Chapter 1. Observing the Armies on the Battlefield of Kuruksetra [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]TEXT 42[/FONT] ​

dosair etaih kula-ghnanam
varna-sankara-karakaih
utsadyante jati-dharmah
kula-dharmas ca sasvatah​

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]SYNONYMS[/FONT] ​

dosaih--by such faults; etaih--all these; kula-ghnanam--of the destroyer of the family; varna-sankara--unwanted children; karakaih--by the doers; utsadyante--causes devastation; jati-dharmah--community projects; kula-dharmah--family traditions; ca--also; sasvatah--eternal.

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]TRANSLATION[/FONT] ​

Due to the evil deeds of the destroyers of family tradition, all kinds of community projects and family welfare activities are devastated.

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]PURPORT[/FONT] ​

The four orders of human society, combined with family welfare activities as they are set forth by the institution of the sanatana-dharma or varnasrama-dharma, are designed to enable the human being to attain his ultimate salvation. Therefore, the breaking of the sanatana-dharma tradition by irresponsible leaders of society brings about chaos in that society, and consequently people forget the aim of life--Visnu. Such leaders are called blind, and persons who follow such leaders are sure to be led into chaos.

sb

 

[a.lakshmi]

Hello All,

I am in search of a good vidwan , veda teacher in bangalore , Katriguppe Area ,banashankari 3rd stage ,to teach me "Rudram ".
Many people ask me not learn it .. but i am soo fond of it that i want to aleast recite a few words by shivarathri

Lakshmi

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

Hello All,

I am in search of a good vidwan , veda teacher in bangalore , Katriguppe Area ,banashankari 3rd stage ,to teach me "Rudram ".
Many people ask me not learn it .. but i am soo fond of it that i want to aleast recite a few words by shivarathri

Lakshmi

I am sorry Lakshmi. You can not learn Rudram like that. Learn it correctly from a Vedic Guru. Normally they do not allow women. But now women are allowed by some if they are accompanied by the husband. That is in theory you accompany your husband and sit behind him during the class. Sankara Mathams are offering Veda classes. and also others. I had given the address of a Sanskrit Magazine in this thread. They may be able to help you.

http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/showthread.php?t=1770

But please be prepared to take NO for an answer. Your husband should approach the people and request for learning Vedas. And then ask whether his wife can accompany him.

Why not recite Shiva Sahasranama?