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  1. #1
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    Rama - Positive and Negative

    From my childhood I was told stories of Rama as one who was truthful/honest who obeyed his parents. He was single wifed and gem of a character. He was ready to sacrifice anything for the welfare of the country and countrymen. He was a person to keep up his words etc etc.
    Recently one of my Hindu friend ( as we had a discussion of Nalambalam visit -ie visiting temples of Rama Bharatha Lakshmana and Satrugna on the same day during this month was treated to be auscipious)He was of the opinion that
    Rama was a indecisive person.
    He was always carried away by the words of others.
    For example - He was called by Guru to kill asuras and went with him. Later when Guru instructed he broke the Bow and married Sita.
    He without expressing his opinion obeyed his father and went to Forest without thinking what will be the future of the country.
    Your opinion ????
    Eventhough he was knowing he asked Sita to go through fire just after war to confirm her purity.
    ON the words of Hanuman he killed Bali
    On the words of a washerman he discarded his wife and let her alone in a forest.

    Like this he quoted many examples from Ramayana and wanted to establish his point.
  2. #2
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    One is quite sure Sri Rama will not come for defending himself.
    So anything can be said about him. Persons who try to defend for Sri Rama
    cannot stand for him and explain something which happened many thousand years ago.

    The critics are really nice to Sri Rama. By opposing him, they indirectly accept that Sri Rama was there. Not like others who say there was nobody as Sri Rama.

    Many such "pattimantrams" are continuing for many years and many generations since thousnads of years, everytime a " புத்தம் புது" copy is released. This will go on ,on,and on. That is the best part of it.

    Thirumuruga Kripananda Variyaar used to say that "Aasthikam " is actually spread by 'Naasthikas". Aasthikas used to keep to themselves with their beliefs . But Naasthikas question,ridicule and provoke them which in turn gives opportunity for aasthikaas to learn and talk more about aasthekam and religion, and they become more convinced and stay with better conviction, and many more new are attracted to aastheekam. Blessing in disguise.



    Greetings.
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  4. #3
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    Shri Kr Subramaniam,

    There are also folks who point out that Rama killed Shambhuk. However, they overlook that Rama ate half-eaten berries offered by Sabari (who by present day standards would be a tribal dalit).

    Imo, killings and stuff in war, cannot be judged since everything is fair in war. As such its really not possible to judge the past and how things were then. People generally are bothered about the present; and about things that affect them in the present.

    Btw, for all the talk about who defeated whom, ppl overlook that there also used be a system where the defeated group is absorbed by the victor. Imo, when it comes to identities from the itihaasas, only names have remained (like fossils). And with all the changes over centuries, i do not think the names really represent lineage of any sort in the present time. So there is no point in dalits identifying themselves with Shambhuk or considering Rama as their aggressor.
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  6. #4
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    I too joined this forum with an idea to discuss such points but later thought i should be a witness to all this discussion. we have(our friends both smarthas and vaishnavas have debated over this ) but could not come to conclusion but said that we should not ask unneccessary question and Ramayanam speaks about our dharma and SriRama was aliving example who showed what to be followed and what is the net result. (we should not question because we will be labelled veen vidhandavatham)
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  8. #5
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    Dear Subramaniam Ji,

    Sri Rama inspite of so many people asking him not to go to the forest , still decisively sticks to his decision:
    Reason : Pitru Vakya paripalanam.

    Sri Rama fights Thaataka and Mareecha based on Sri Vishwamitra's advise,
    Reason:- Acharya devo bhava

    Sri Rama kills Vali after ascertaining the facts (Vali's misdemanor with Sugriva's wife Ruma and making her his wife and banishing Sugriva to the forest (after Sugriva unknowingly closes the tunnel where Vali/Dhundubi fight). manu smriti ordains capital punishment for such a crime, which Rama quotes in Kishkinda kaandam while responding to Vali on Vali being felled by Rama's arrow.(tasyo dando vada smritaha). Vali also argues that he is a monkey and these Dharamas don't apply to him. else where we find that Vali speaks like a Hanuman and he also performed trikala Sandhyavandana(as is known during his encounter withh Ravana). All this has been countered by SriRama and Vali finally accepts his crime and surrenders to Rama.

    Sri Rama was banished to the forest for 14 years and he was asked to take care of the forest (kingdom) by kaikeyi. He was still the king of Ikshwaku dynasty and had to establish Dharma in the forest

    So there is no doubt that Vali has to be awarded capital punishment, and Rama has the right as emperor of Ikshwaku to award that punishment.

    Why did he kill him then hiding behind?

    I got myself once during Sri Sri Anna Krishna Premi swami's upanyasam.

    The Rahasyam is SiRama could have waged/challenged Vali since killing Vali require less of his prowess than 14,000 Rakshasas at Dandakavanam led by Kara/Dhushana.

    But unlike the Raakshasas who kill/eat the Rishis and poor people, vanara sena which would eventually be called in case of war with Rama/Lakshmana, were flawless and doesn't require any punishment.

    Rama thought that even if generations will speak ill of him (Vali was killed by Rama from behind), Dharma has to be restored by killing Vali


    Sri Ramajayam
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  10. #6
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    Dear Sir,

    Obeying the Guru is not indecisiveness and on the contraray it is the respect given to the guru.
    By obeying the Guru only good things materialised. The first test is only to establish the greatestness of mata sita to the
    world and common people. It is better to understand the meaning of the actions by Lord Ram
    where one will find each every action is only for universal good.

    Rgds,
    Mohan
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  12. #7
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    It is interesting and heartening to note that Rama's seemingly reproachable behaviour at various times was never glossed over in any of the versions of his exploits. In spite of those, if he still comes across, centuries later, to be relevant enough to be revered as God and as a "Maryada Purushottam", it only means he must have been a very amazing person (I am, of course, assuming that he really existed). I have yet to, however, read a good defence of his atrocious actions (twice!) against Sita.
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  14. #8
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    Respectable members,

    Legend (or purana) has it, Ravana did not think that a human could win him in a war or could kill him; so, he did not seek any boon to safeguard himself against a human (Naran in sanskrit). Rama overpowered him in a war. He was just a human being.

    Whether we look at Rama rationally or with Bakhthi, he was just a human being. Human beings come with the usual human personalities and imperfections. In my opinion, it does not make any sense to analyse the perfection/imperfections of Rama.

    I consider Gugan and Sabari connections say volumes about Rama's nicer qualities. In my opinion, Rama should have treated Sita more respectfully and equitably; Killing Vali was not exactly a nice deed to write home about; following sashtras without rationally analysing them was not exactly an act of wisdom.

    But, at the end of the day, the bottom line is, Rama was just a human being. So, we need not exactly expect a perfect person either.

    Cheers!
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  16. #9
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    I am a little amused. Sri Rama takes the trouble of waging war against a demon king who took his wife captive (after pining for her, building bridges and what not) only to bring her back and not treat her nicely because he was cross with her. Does not make any sense to me.
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  18. #10
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    Dear Samarapungavan,
    Sri Rama kills Vali after ascertaining the facts (Vali's misdemanor with Sugriva's wife Ruma and making her his wife and banishing Sugriva to the forest (after Sugriva unknowingly closes the tunnel where Vali/Dhundubi fight). manu smriti ordains capital punishment for such a crime, which Rama quotes in Kishkinda kaandam while responding to Vali on Vali being felled by Rama's arrow.(tasyo dando vada smritaha
    For this argument ,even though it is out of this post. I would like to draw your attention towards Indira who went after a Rishi~s wife (ahalya) and escaped any capital punishment. while the lady was punished to become a stone.. He was also a powerful King but only defence would be he was loyal to Gods.
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