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Who is brahmanan

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krish44

Gold Member
Gold Member
Dear Krish ji,

I have no problems who thinks what of themselves as long they give the due respect to others and not play Ameoba Pseudopodia and try to make anyone good into their clan.

That is totally not within the scope of rational thinking anymore.
Rji I never talked about the morality or rationality of this hindu brahmin way of thinking.
it is likely to get worse as this is a byproduct of caste ,community based reservation systems foisted on india based on theories of social justice.Brahmin is forced to look at everything thru the prism of caste and behave more irrationally than before
 

renuka

Gold Member
Gold Member
Rji I never talked about the morality or rationality of this hindu brahmin way of thinking.
it is likely to get worse as this is a byproduct of caste ,community based reservation systems foisted on india based on theories of social justice.Brahmin is forced to look at everything thru the prism of caste and behave more irrationally than before

Dear Krish ji,

Actually if you read my last few replies..I have never named any caste and never even mentioned the word Brahmin as in targetting any caste.My post were quite neutral that we need to give anyone their due respect and not claim they are like us etc. I think it was you who thought that Nara ji was targeting Brahmins.
So I also wonder why you keep mentioning about caste in your replies.

For me I view all humans as the same but at the same time we need to respect their individuality.

I enjoy being a member in this TB forum and also a being a member in a Dalit blog cos it nice to see how different minds think.

So you see I have no problems if a Brahmin or Dalit is forced to look at everything thru the prism of caste as long everyone acknowledges there can be goodness in anyone.
 
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krish44

Gold Member
Gold Member
You may wonder whatever your mind is capable of, I don't care. Mrs. RR, a fine and gentle woman she is, said something that had an unsavory subtext. All I did was shine a light on it. If she thinks I was out of line, let her say so, and I will deal with her, you can go and jump in the nearest lake or pond you can find, LOL....
lead kindly light guru nara ji
 

sravna

Well-known member
Dear Krish ji,

Actually if you read my last few replies..I have never named any caste and never even mentioned the word Brahmin.My post were quite neutral that we need to give anyone their due respect and not claim they are like us etc. I think it was you who thought that Nara ji was targeting Brahmins.
So I also wonder why you keep mentioning about caste in your replies.

For me I view all humans as the same but at the same time we need to respect their individuality.

I enjoy being a member in this TB forum and also a being a member in a Dalit blog cos it nice to see how different minds think.

So you see I have no problems if Brahmin or Dalit is forced to look at everything thru the prism of caste as long everyone acknowledges there is goodness in everyone.

Dear Renuka,

The basis of division into different groups is as universal and timeless as it can get. This is because anywhere in the universe and anytime these differences are bound to exist. Thus not being based on artificial considerations, I think Smt. RR ji is not wrong in saying someone as a brahmin based on his mental traits. I think we can use these same mental traits to call someone a brahmin some millions of light years away from our planet or a million years from now. That may not hold for other classifications.
 

tks

Well-known member
You are absolutely right Sir! My dad never thought that brahmins are in a higher level than other humans! :)

Let me describe summary of a conversation I had with a very close Muslim friend of mine some years ago.
Depending on how one views the world they may or may not take this as humerus or insult...

My friend of did not get his visa renewal in time for him to go to India to attend his brother's wedding.
There was a very good chance he may not be able to get back to USA especially with a name he had..

(As it turned out he did get detained for almost a year and got back but that is besides the point)

He prays 5 times a day even at work place and is very devout Muslim (let me call him M by the initial of his first name)

Here is a summary of conversation before he went back to India for his visit..
======

Me: I hope you are praying to Allah to make sure your Visa processing happens smoothly

M: I never do that, I go for something much larger ..

Me: Really, what is that ...

M: I pray for paradise ..

Me: Wait a minute - if you got permit to go to Paradise what will happen to the rest of us

M: Actually I pray that you go to Paradise too .. you see I pray for all the people I like

Me: Not sure how I can thank you, wait a minute what if I can prove to you there is no paradise

M: You can never do that ,, I know you are wrong but just in case you are wrong you are covered with my prayer

Me: OK, I will make a deal .. I will go and break a Cocunut at a temple near by so you can get you visa .. just in case (laughing)

M: I think if your God can help me there please pray for my visa

Me: OK that is a deal .. by the way do you know that I am a Hindu Brahmin and my words carry a lot of weight .. I shall do a prayer towards your visa resolution ...

M: That is a deal .. paradise for visa :)

=====================

I am not much into rituals and of course I did not break any coconut for his Visa resolution.

In the above exchange there was no intent to act as if one is superior.
 

tks

Well-known member
Dear TKS ji,

You do have your point but how many upper caste Hindus will accept if a Dalit calls him "You are my Dalit brother"?

Dr Renu

You are absolutely right that many will not accept it but they have embedded hierarchy in their mind with a serious sense of insecurity. They will see the world the way they are.
 

renuka

Gold Member
Gold Member
Dear Renuka,

The basis of division into different groups is as universal and timeless as it can get. This is because anywhere in the universe and anytime these differences are bound to exist. Thus not being based on artificial considerations, I think Smt. RR ji is not wrong in saying someone as a brahmin based on his mental traits. I think we can use these same mental traits to call someone a brahmin some millions of light years away from our planet or a million years from now. That may not hold for other classifications.


Dear Sravna,

I do not believe in the classification of Guna Varna(Varna based on Gunas)..that was never ever practiced anywhere.

Even Yuddhisthira in his conversation with the Yaksha was giving some cock and bull that one is a Brahmin by gunas etc.

You see if what he said is true that Varna is not based on birth but based on Gunas then why Yudhisthira always called Karna a Suta Putra?

Didn't Karna display Kshatriya Guna?

Only after Yuddhi knew that the slain Karna was his brother only then his mindset changed.

Varna is by birth and that is no doubt of that and there is nothing wrong with that as long mutual respect exists.

Calling another person another Varna equals to the most feared by some... 'Varnasankarah"
 
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renuka

Gold Member
Gold Member
Dr Renu

You are absolutely right that many will not accept it but they have embedded hierarchy in their mind with a serious sense of insecurity. They will see the world the way they are.


Dear TKS ji,

I am glad you agreed with me..this is reality.

So brotherhood in the real sense can never exists but mutual respect can.
 

tks

Well-known member
Dear TKS ji,

I am glad you agreed with me..this is reality.

So brotherhood in the real sense can never exists but mutual respect can.

Brotherhood and respect can both exist - but depends on the people involved and their maturity level.
It is not relevant how many people can do this etc because ignorance is the prevailing factor ruling the mind of most human beings.
 

sravna

Well-known member
Dear Sravna,

I do not believe in the classification of Guna Varna(Varna based on Gunas)..that was never ever practiced anywhere.

Even Yuddhisthira in his conversation with the Yaksha was giving some cock and bull that one is a Brahmin by gunas etc.

You see if what he said is true that Varna is not based on birth but based on Gunas then why Yudhisthira always called Karna a Suta Putra?

Didn't Karna display Kshatriya Guna?

Only after Yuddhi knew that the slain Karna was his brother only then his mindset changed.

Varna is by birth and that is no doubt of that and there in nothing wrong with that.

Calling another person another Varna equals to the most feared by some... 'Varnasankarah"

Dear Renuka,

Yudhistra is not the last word on how the classification is done. I think Krishna makes it clear that the gunas are the basis of classification into four groups. That should be taken as authoritative.
 
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renuka

Gold Member
Gold Member
Dear Renuka,

Yudhistra is not the last word on how the classification is done. I think Krishna makes it clear that the gunas are the basis of classification into four groups. That should be taken as authoritative.

Dear Sravna,

So in that case is there a person from a particular Varna who will be willing to claim they belong to another Varna based on Gunas?

Ok lets start with you.

Which Varna do you consider yourself based on Gunas alone and why... then I will also give answers about my own self to be fair.
 
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sravna

Well-known member
Dear Sravna,

So in that case is there a person from a particular Varna who will be willing to claim they belong to another Varna based on Gunas?

Ok lets start with you.

Which Varna do you consider yourself based on Gunas alone and why... then I will also give answers about my own self to be fair.

Dear Renuka,

Self assessment is not the right way to be classified into a varna. It is the least objective. since there seemed to be no feasible ways to classify one into a varna, I think birth based classification became prevalent. It is probably not the best way but since qualities are to a large extent inherited birth based classification offers a solution.

Since varna classification specifies the occupation that one is fit to be in based on the guna, I would say success in a particular occupation could be used as the basis of classification. So it is not just because you are born into a brahmin family say, you are fit to be an advisor but because you are a good advisor, you are fit to be a brahmin.

I am not going into the practical utility of such a classification but only outlining one possible way of classification other than by birth.
 

renuka

Gold Member
Gold Member
Dear Renuka,

Self assessment is not the right way to be classified into a varna. It is the least objective. since there seemed to be no feasible ways to classify one into a varna, I think birth based classification became prevalent. It is probably not the best way but since qualities are to a large extent inherited birth based classification offers a solution.

Since varna classification specifies the occupation that one is fit to be in based on the guna, I would say success in a particular occupation could be used as the basis of classification. So it is not just because you are born into a brahmin family say, you are fit to be an advisor but because you are a good advisor, you are fit to be a brahmin.

I am not going into the practical utility of such a classification but only outlining one possible way of classification other than by birth.

Dear Sravna,

In other words you havent answered my question.

Self assessment and introspection is the best way to judge one own self.

What is so hard about that?

Example of self assessment.


Most important point to have before claiming to have Sattva Guna.

1)Constant Coordination in Thought, Word and Deed(Trikarana Suddhi)

If this is NOT present..then one does not have Sattva Guna ..hence can not be classified as the first 3 Varnas based on Guna.

I would never dare to claim I have Constant Coordination in Thought,Word and Deed.


Its not too hard to find ourselves in the Guna Varna scale.
 
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krish44

Gold Member
Gold Member
Dear Krish ji,

Actually if you read my last few replies..I have never named any caste and never even mentioned the word Brahmin as in targetting any caste.My post were quite neutral that we need to give anyone their due respect and not claim they are like us etc. I think it was you who thought that Nara ji was targeting Brahmins.
So I also wonder why you keep mentioning about caste in your replies.

For me I view all humans as the same but at the same time we need to respect their individuality.

I enjoy being a member in this TB forum and also a being a member in a Dalit blog cos it nice to see how different minds think.

So you see I have no problems if a Brahmin or Dalit is forced to look at everything thru the prism of caste as long everyone acknowledges there can be goodness in anyone.
dear Madam
To tell you frankly I did not think Naraji was targetting brahmins as a community. I was upset at his finding inner meaning in RRji s innocent comment on a muslim visiting her house.and he tried finding inner meanings ,sermonising her taking it to be his moral right.
This is a tamil brahmin forum . a forum based on caste divisions.hence I might have talked of caste and mindsets In facebook I may not ever mention the same. In fact my child did not know he was a brahmin untll he joined engg in tamil nadu after schooling in delhi. He franticallically rang me from chennai to know whether he was a forward caste as it had to be mentioned in the admission form.
Whichever community anyone belongs to is of least concern to me
Ultimately all humans irrespective of caste,religion are the same. As you might have observed in my other posts ,I have mentioned that there some members belonging to other religions in my extended family
whenever I found members with liberal mindset I have applauded maintaining a silence on the others in order not to hurt them
I have made fun of sermon and preacher types gently pulling their legs and also offending them
I have thoroughly enjoyed this forum
I have thoroughly enjoyed your posts and repartees
best wishes
 

sravna

Well-known member
Dear Sravna,

In other words you havent answered my question.

Self assessment and introspection is the best way to judge one own self.

What is so hard about that?

Example of self assessment.


Most important point to have before claiming to have Sattva Guna.

1)Constant Coordination in Thought, Word and Deed(Trikarana Suddhi)

If this is NOT present..then one does not have Sattva Guna ..hence can not be classified as the first 3 Varnas based on Guna.

I would never dare to claim I have Constant Coordination in Thought,Word and Deed.


Its not too hard to find ourselves in the Guna Varna scale.

Dear Renuka,

I am not saying about knowing oneself but about others accepting our self assessment.
 

renuka

Gold Member
Gold Member
:rockon:
dear Madam
To tell you frankly I did not think Naraji was targetting brahmins as a community. I was upset at his finding inner meaning in RRji s innocent comment on a muslim visiting her house.and he tried finding inner meanings ,sermonising her taking it to be his moral right.
This is a tamil brahmin forum . a forum based on caste divisions.hence I might have talked of caste and mindsets In facebook I may not ever mention the same. In fact my child did not know he was a brahmin untll he joined engg in tamil nadu after schooling in delhi. He franticallically rang me from chennai to know whether he was a forward caste as it had to be mentioned in the admission form.
Whichever community anyone belongs to is of least concern to me
Ultimately all humans irrespective of caste,religion are the same. As you might have observed in my other posts ,I have mentioned that there some members belonging to other religions in my extended family
whenever I found members with liberal mindset I have applauded maintaining a silence on the others in order not to hurt them
I have made fun of sermon and preacher types gently pulling their legs and also offending them
I have thoroughly enjoyed this forum
I have thoroughly enjoyed your posts and repartees
best wishes


Dear Krish ji,

No problems yaar..:rockon:

regards

renu
 
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renuka

Gold Member
Gold Member
Dear Renuka,

I am not saying about knowing oneself but for others to accept our self assessment.

Dear Sravna,

Why should others accept our self assessment?
After all didn't Lord Krishna say :

Chapter 6. Sankhya-yoga
TEXT 5
uddhared atmanatmanam
natmanam avasadayet
atmaiva hy atmano bandhur
atmaiva ripur atmanah
SYNONYMS
bump.gif
uddharet--one must deliver; atmana--by the mind; atmanam--the conditioned soul; na--never; atmanam--the conditioned soul;avasadayet--put into degradation; atma--mind; eva--certainly; hi--indeed; atmanah--of the conditioned soul; bandhuh--friend; atma--mind;eva--certainly; ripuh--enemy; atmanah--of the conditioned soul.
TRANSLATION
bump.gif
A man must elevate himself by his own mind, not degrade himself. The mind is the friend of the conditioned soul, and his enemy as well.


Lord Krishna did not mention about others in His sermon... all He mentioned was one's own mind!
 

ashwin_ash

New member
dear Madam
To tell you frankly I did not think Naraji was targetting brahmins as a community. I was upset at his finding inner meaning in RRji s innocent comment on a muslim visiting her house.and he tried finding inner meanings ,sermonising her taking it to be his moral right.
This is a tamil brahmin forum . a forum based on caste divisions.hence I might have talked of caste and mindsets In facebook I may not ever mention the same. In fact my child did not know he was a brahmin untll he joined engg in tamil nadu after schooling in delhi. He franticallically rang me from chennai to know whether he was a forward caste as it had to be mentioned in the admission form.
Whichever community anyone belongs to is of least concern to me
Ultimately all humans irrespective of caste,religion are the same. As you might have observed in my other posts ,I have mentioned that there some members belonging to other religions in my extended family
whenever I found members with liberal mindset I have applauded maintaining a silence on the others in order not to hurt them
I have made fun of sermon and preacher types gently pulling their legs and also offending them
I have thoroughly enjoyed this forum
I have thoroughly enjoyed your posts and repartees
best wishes

Per Ayurveda, a person who consumes mushrooms, onion, garlic, wine, and enjoys the pleasures of the flesh belongs to the tamas guna. Wonder which guna I fall under :) since I do not consider any of these wrong..
 

sravna

Well-known member
No Renuka, there has to be an objective assessment if the assessment is to serve its utility just as the varna system helps in fitting people into occupations according to their guna, But I agree for inner development one does not have to worry about others
 
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