Who is brahmanan

[sravna]

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Dear Shri Sravna,

If a "fundamental law of science can be proved wrong" and that too "repeatedly", then that will simply mean that, that particular law of science is wrong—nothing more, nothing less. It just cannot lead any rational intellect to the conclusion (or, even belief) that the vedas depict some kind of truth, or that there is something called 'spiritual energy'. Even for considering your proposal, I as a dumb student of science, will ask the following queries:

1. What is the definition of this 'spiritual energy' which you propose? How and where and under what circumstances does it manifest and whether it is capable of being detected and measured by physical instruments?




2. What way is the truth of the vedas connected to this spiritual energy?

3. Whether the spirital energy always and invariably nullifies physical energy? If so, why is it that physical energy has not been completely destroyed in all these billions of years and the universe made to completely vanish?

4. Why is a 'human agent' required for producing this spiritual energy? etc.

In addition to the above, kindly also bear in mind the contents of my post # 176 above.

Dear Shri Sangom,

Spiritual energy can be readily identified with thoughts which are caused by the human mind. Human mind produces spiritual energy only when it is spiritual in nature. Spiritual energy is to be differentiated from physical energy because it transcends space and time. It cannot be detected by physical instruments. However I think the thoughts which are the manifestation of spiritual energy can be detected by a physical instrument just as the brain detects them. What I mean by the above is the spiritual mind sees far in time but the brain possibly cannot detect the full extent of it and what the brain detects is what is perceived at any time.

In the normal process, physical energies evolve towards spiritual energy and that is how the evolution from inanimate to animate to human to brahman happens. But if specifically and consciously directed at physical energy, spiritual energy invariably nullifies it.

As I said since spiritual energy presents itself in the process of evolution, humans as agents of spiritual energy only means that humans are advanced enough to be able to be the creators of spiritual energy.

 

[ashwin_ash]

Hi Vgane - Absolutely, that is the power of thought - power of the spiritual energy / God!!. This is what Sravna was also saying earlier. so if we can focus & amplify our thought energy then we can heal people or perform miracles or influence the events or read our future or etc.. !!. this is what our Rishis were able to via meditation etc.. of course as I said earlier, unless this is demonstrated people will continue to disbelieve it. Cheers,

So now you say your "God" is some obscure form of energy. There's a book about a godman from andhra who flew up in the sky and steadied an airplane passing through an air pocket. Can blind belief get more absurd?

What is this "god" you speak about? We don't even need doctors if mere 'energy' or 'god' can heal. Where are all the rishis in the present age? Probably they've taken 'rebirth' as Nithyananda and Ranjitha!! They are also a manifestation of dynamic energy hence they are Gods!!

 

[tks]

tks, aren't you being a little too hasty? You often say there is hidden meaning and it should be understood with proper attitude, etc. with which I don't actually disagree. Sometimes there is nothing there for all the proper attitude, effort, etc., that is where we sometimes disagree.

Be that as it may, coming to this story it seems the guru was trying to teach his sishyas that one need not resort to superstitious behavior in order to honor ancestors. Now, you may disagree that the act of offering water to sun is superstitious and that would be your POV, but that does not make the story "stupid".

Nara, I am choosing to not respond since it will not be taken in the right spirit based on past experience.

Instead let me say two things.

One is that whatever you have attributed to me in your post are incorrect.

Two, let me point to an intelligent post instead without qualification as to why.

That is Sri Vaagmi's reponse (message #206)

 

[renuka]

Hi Renuka,

This is what we call as spiritual energy or Brahman or Divine or God. One can name it anyway, does not matter. For believers like us, Gravity is also a manifestation of this “spiritual energy or divine or Brahman”.

So my point is – how do thoughts originate?. And how do they travel across to other beings?

See, tomorrow the Scientist will call it with some other name, it does not change the fact that there is something/someone who is beyond us & behind this wonderful creation!!

Cheers,

Dear JK,

God is a Logician but sadly His followers are not!

 

[Vaagmi]

Nara, I am choosing to not respond since it will not be taken in the right spirit based on past experience.

Instead let me say two things.

One is that whatever you have attributed to me in your post are incorrect.

Two, let me point to an intelligent post instead without qualification as to why.

That is Sri Vaagmi's reponse (message #206)

Dear tks,

I deliberately intended that post to be just "intelligent" because that is the language/medium which is understood by atheists like Subavee and our friends here.

Nice that you understood it. Thanks.

 

[Brahmanyan]

So going by that if we still haven't understood creation..practice makes perfect..therefore keep on gunning it!LOL

Doctor,

Interesting digression from the main thread. Perhaps one day Scientific research may get an answer for "how" creation takes place. But we may not get the answer for "why" it takes place. We may have to seek the help of metaphysics (beyond physics) for an answer . The search is going on from time immemorial to find the answer. Even those who realise this cannot express it கண்டவர் விண்டிலார் அல்லவா!.

Regards,
Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.

 

[krish44]

tks, aren't you being a little too hasty? You often say there is hidden meaning and it should be understood with proper attitude, etc. with which I don't actually disagree. Sometimes there is nothing there for all the proper attitude, effort, etc., that is where we sometimes disagree.

Be that as it may, coming to this story it seems the guru was trying to teach his sishyas that one need not resort to superstitious behavior in order to honor ancestors. Now, you may disagree that the act of offering water to sun is superstitious and that would be your POV, but that does not make the story "stupid".

wah wah full marks to you Nara ji . I do not think the story was stupid at all.

 

[sravna]

I think my definition of spiritual energy is evident from my previous posts i.e., that transcending space and time. Everything is ultimately spiritual energy and that is one reality. For that we have to see all of space and time in its totality. Just because we see everything sitting inside the boundaries of space and time we are not able to see that totality. When our mind evolves that is when it becomes spiritual it is able to see beyond space and time and thus realize the truth.

There are two things here. One is the existence of space and time and the energies and matter within. The other is what we perceive of them. As far as the human body is concerned all of them perceive the reality in the same way. Human body is not considered to be part of self. But the human mind whose development reflects how evolved the self is , each sees the reality in a different way. It is the mind that has to evolve and finally see the truth.

Let me digress here a bit. Once the mind is self realized it actually acquires immense power. It attains the capability due its fully spiritual nature to make physical energies into spiritual energy. It does this I suppose by its ability to make the appropriate connections to the physical energies
so that it becomes one with spiritual energy.

When something is spiritual it is perfectly balanced. For example a body that is spiritual is in a perfectly healthy state and immune to the impact of any physical or mental force however powerful they may be. This I can say from personal experience because I think and I am willing to accept the challenge too that no amount of physical force, by that I mean energy can produce any impact on me because I have made it immune to such force. I have to experiment on how the impact of matter may be neutralized. So the point is what is important is that the mind evolves and become spiritual. It can then make your body for example balanced and so on.

In the parlance of advaita the veiling effect of maya if lifted as with the mind seeing the truth, the projecting effect of maya that is the physical and mental reality can have no impact on you.

 

[Vaagmi]

I think my definition of spiritual energy is evident from my previous posts i.e., that transcending space and time. Everything is ultimately spiritual energy and that is one reality. For that we have to see all of space and time in its totality. Just because we see everything sitting inside the boundaries of space and time we are not able to see that totality. When our mind evolves that is when it becomes spiritual it is able to see beyond space and time and thus realize the truth.

There are two things here. One is the existence of space and time and the energies and matter within. The other is what we perceive of them. As far as the human body is concerned all of them perceive the reality in the same way. Human body is not considered to be part of self. But the human mind whose development reflects how evolved the self is , each sees the reality in a different way. It is the mind that has to evolve and finally see the truth.

Let me digress here a bit. Once the mind is self realized it actually acquires immense power. It attains the capability due its fully spiritual nature to make physical energies into spiritual energy. It does this I suppose by its ability to make the appropriate connections to the physical energies
so that it becomes one with spiritual energy.

When something is spiritual it is perfectly balanced. For example a body that is spiritual is in a perfectly healthy state and immune to the impact of any physical or mental force however powerful they may be. This I can say from personal experience because I think and I am willing to accept the challenge too that no amount of physical force, by that I mean energy can produce any impact on me because I have made it immune to such force. I have to experiment on how the impact of matter may be neutralized. So the point is what is important is that the mind evolves and become spiritual. It can then make your body for example balanced and so on.

In the parlance of advaita the veiling effect of maya if lifted as with the mind seeing the truth, the projecting effect of maya that is the physical and mental reality can have no impact on you.

Dear sravna,

You are making relentless attempt to measure that which is not measurable with your totally inadequate scale. You are trying to reason out things which are beyond reasoning coordinates. Like a child trying to catch the moon with its hands. But that is what is human endeavor. So I enjoy. Carry on. Thanks.

வானத்தில் கிழிந்து தொங்கும் மேகத்தினுள்ளிருந்து முழுமதி சிரித்தால் வெறுப்பவர் எவர்?-தாகூர்.
"வெண்ணை அளைந்த குணுங்கும் விளையாடு புழுதியும் கொண்டு திண்ணென"த் தேய்த்துக்கிடப்பது குழந்தை. நாம் வெறுத்தா ஒதுக்குகிறோம்?-பெரியாழ்வார்.

 

[sravna]

Dear sravna,

You are making relentless attempt to measure that which is not measurable with your totally inadequate scale. You are trying to reason out things which are beyond reasoning coordinates. Like a child trying to catch the moon with its hands. But that is what is human endeavor. So I enjoy. Carry on. Thanks.

வானத்தில் கிழிந்து தொங்கும் மேகத்தினுள்ளிருந்து முழுமதி சிரித்தால் வெறுப்பவர் எவர்?-தாகூர்.
"வெண்ணை அளைந்த குணுங்கும் விளையாடு புழுதியும் கொண்டு திண்ணென"த் தேய்த்துக்கிடப்பது குழந்தை. நாம் வெறுத்தா ஒதுக்குகிறோம்?-பெரியாழ்வார்.

Dear Shri Vaagmi,

Your post is like an argument with just the conclusion. I am not sure how to respond.

 

[Vaagmi]

Dear Shri Vaagmi,

Your post is like an argument with just the conclusion. I am not sure how to respond.

Dear sravna,

I am only trying to point out a different drishtikone and draw you to it, stopping you for a moment in your tracks where you are relentlessly pursuing cause and effect, reason, hypothesis, experiment proof etc, If that is a "process", I am asking you look at the "process" itself under a microscope. You may get valuable knowledge there. People have done that before. So you have a ready template to start with. Try that. Thanks.

 

[sravna]

Dear sravna,

I am only trying to point out a different drishtikone and draw you to it, stopping you for a moment in your tracks where you are relentlessly pursuing cause and effect, reason, hypothesis, experiment proof etc, If that is a "process", I am asking you look at the "process" itselunder a microscope. You may get valuable knowledge there. People have done that before. So you have a ready template to start with. Try that. Thanks.

Dear Shri Vaagmi,

I state my views on something and look forward to meaningful exchanges. I do not want to formally prove or disprove anything. But if any establishment of science wants to challenge my views experimentally I am willing to accept the challenge.

There is nothing relentless in what I am doing.I am surprised that you got that impression.

 

[Vaagmi]

Dear Shri Vaagmi,

I state my views on something and look forward to meaningful exchanges. I do not want to formally prove or disprove anything. But if any establishment of science wants to challenge my views experimentally I am willing to accept the challenge.

There is nothing relentless in what I am doing.I am surprised that you got that impression.

Dear Sravna,

I agree. Please carry on. Thanks.

 

[renuka]

Once the mind is self realized it actually acquires immense power. .

Dear Sravna,

From what I know a Mind does not exist in a fully realized state(if that actually exists).

BTW sometimes things happen purely becos of a co incidence and we mistake it as powers....Once I remember a person related to my husband made me real angry and I thought in my mind and gave an intense stare. I thought ..."just get stuck to your chair and just not get up"..the next moment the person actually could not get up from the chair and had to be carried from the chair to the car.

Then I remember my husband looking at me suspiciously and later he asked me if I thought anything.

I said "Ya..I got mad and I thought it would be nice if that person got stuck to the chair"

So you see Sravna..what would you want to call that?

I would just call it a co incidence..but what ever said and done it really scared my husband!LOL

 

[sravna]

Dear Sravna,

From what I know a Mind does not exist in a fully realized state(if that actually exists).

BTW sometimes things happen purely becos of a co incidence and we mistake it as powers....Once I remember a person related to my husband made me real angry and I thought in my mind and gave an intense stare. I thought ..."just get stuck to your chair and just not get up"..the next moment the person actually could not get up from the chair and had to be carried from the chair to the car.

Then I remember my husband looking at me suspiciously and later he asked me if I thought anything.

I said "Ya..I got mad and I thought it would be nice if that person got stuck to the chair"

So you see Sravna..what would you want to call that?

I would just call it a co incidence..but what ever said and done it really scared my husband!LOL

Dear Renuka,

May be it is the reverse, You really have the power but want to call it as coincidence. Anyway you scare me too!

 

[Jaykay767]

DearJK,

God is a Logician but sadly His followers are not!

Hi Renuka,

Agree, the problem is with the followers no-doubt. My only grouse with the anti-Brahmin people is, everyone made mistakes in the past. As I said, the Christians led the crusade & the muslims led the counter charge/Jihad. 100s of Millions were killed over centuries. Apart from this, Nazis killed over 10 million Jews.

All the communities in India were warring & killing each other. But what our hapless brahmins did in the past is the single biggest issue for which we have a professor waging a war with all of us in this forum – LOL !!!! Even in the Jain persecution, it was the Kings not the Brahmins. The story about Ramanujam putting the Jains in a grinder is nonsense & hilarious!!. Ramanujam was a sanyasi & did he have a army under him to do all this ?. Kings influenced by different Guru’s philosophy indulged in persecuting the others !!

Anyways – some people live their lives on hatred & spew them on others in various forums & social media !!!

Cheers,

 

[renuka]

Dear Renuka,

May be it is the reverse, You really have the power but want to call it as coincidence. Anyway you scare me too!

LOL!

Why get scared?? I thought you believed that the human mind has all the power.

 

[renuka]

Anyways – some people live their lives on hatred & spew them on others in various forums & social media !!!

Cheers,

Dear JK ji,

When you hate someone/a community etc you are actually secretly obsessed with that person/community and that person/community actually "rules" your subconscious.

So whether someone is a Brahmin hater or a Non Brahmin hater..both fall in the same category that both are secretly obsessed with each other and imprints are formed in our mind which makes our lives more difficult.

So hatred is never a good form of emotion..that is why live and let live is the best policy..when we live and let live no one can rule our mind.

 

[Jaykay767]

Hi Renuka - Absolutely agree !!. All of us have our likes, dislikes, but is important not to take it to this level of hatred-ness !!

 

[Nara]

......One is that whatever you have attributed to me in your post are incorrect.

tks, you said the story was stupid, what is there to incorrectly attribute? I can easily imagine what your reaction will be if anyone responded the way you did if it was you narrating a story from some upanishad.

It seems anything outside of what you believe in is stupid, anything said in agreement of it is brilliant.....