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What was the Caste or Gothram of Vasudeva Krishna?

prasad1

Gold Member
Gold Member
Krishna was from Yadava Clan, even though he spent very little time with Nanada the cowherd King.

If we consider him being the son of Vasudeva and Devaki who were Kshatriyas, he could be a Kshatriya.

Upanayana is one of the traditional saṃskāras (rites of passage) that marked the acceptance of a student by a guru (teacher) and an individual's entrance to a school in Hinduism. The tradition is widely discussed in ancient Sanskrit texts of India and varies regionally. The sacred thread (yajnopavita or janeu) is received by the boy during this ceremony, that he continues wearing across his chest thereafter.

There is no record of Krishna getting either one. So he can not be considered a Kshatriya,

Traditionally, Yadav groups were linked to cattle raising and as such, were outside the formal caste system.

The term 'Yadav' covers many castes which initially had different names: Ahir in the Hindi belt, Punjab and Gujarat, Gavli in Maharashtra, Gola in Andhra Pradesh and Karnataka etc. Their traditional common function, all over India, was that of herdsmen, cowherds and milksellers.

However, Jaffrelot has also said that most of the modern Yadavs are cultivators, mainly engaged in tilling the land, and less than one third of the population are occupied in raising cattle or the milk business.


M. S. A. Rao had earlier expressed the same opinion as Jaffrelot, and noted that the traditional association with cattle, together with the belief in descent from Yadu, defines the community. According to David Mandelbaum, the association of the Yadav (and their constituent castes, Ahirand Gwala) with cattle has impacted on their commonly viewed ritual status (varna) as Shudra, although the community's members often claim the higher status of Kshatriya. The Shudra status is explained by the nomadic nature of herdsmen, which constrained the ability of other groups in the varna system to validate the adherence to practices of ritual purity; by their involvement in castration of the animals, which was considered to be a ritually polluting act; and because the sale of milk, as opposed to personal use thereof, was thought to represent economic gain from a sacrosanct product.

The Yadavs are included in the Other Backward Classes (OBCs) category in the Indian states of Bihar, Chhattisgarh, Delhi,Haryana, Jharkhand, Karnataka, Madhya Pradesh, Odisha, Rajasthan, Uttar Pradesh, and West Bengal. In the state of Uttar Pradesh the Social Justice Committee reported over-representation of Upper OBCs, specially the Yadavs in public offices and suggested creating sub categories within the OBC category and the Yadav/Ahir are the only group listed in Part A of a three-part OBC classification system introduced there following the official report of 2001.

Krishna's entire clan was wiped out because of a curse. So there should not be a Yadava clan after Krishna. Sorry, Lalu Prasad Yadav.




Source: Wikipedia and other sites.
 
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KRN

Active member
There is no record of Krishna getting either one. So he can not be considered a Kshatriya,

Sir,

Whatever thing the websites you copy pasted this stuff from says, Srimad Bhagavatam clearly mentions Krishna getting his upanayanam. Please see SB (10.45.29).

tatas ca labdha-samskarau
dvijatvam prapya su-vratau
gargad yadu-kulacaryad
gayatram vratam asthitau

After attaining twice-born status (Dvijatvam) through initiation (Samskaras), the Lords(Balarama and Krishna), sincere in their vows, took the further vow of gayatram vratam from Garga Muni, the Kulacharya of the Yadus.
 

KRN

Active member
Thanks, that makes clear.
But Lalu Prasad and Mulayam Yadavs are not of this caste or maybe.

Who knows? The country has gone through so many upheavals since the mahabharata war (Historians doubt whether it really occurred). The authenticity of Krishna is doubtful too, according to historians, as his existence hinges on the mahabharata, which in the present form is possibly a text of accretions.

Only as a fun or a timepass activity can one speculate on this. Some years ago I had read about artifacts discovered during excavation of the seashore on the Gujarat coast which indicated a civilization (Dwaraka?) that got submerged.

And as per the texts, not all Yadavas perished in the fight. Some of them remained. Krishna's great-grandson Vajranabha survived and was made the king of Indraprastham (by the Pandavas) acc to the scriptures. So it's not correct to say that Krishna's entire clan was entirely wiped out because of a curse.

Another thing - all the texts state that the ladies of the Yadava race were taken away by the forest-dwellers. Possibly some of these ladies settled down and became the forerunners of a race that, in the course of time, went through cultural changes and became the present-day Yadavas.

The Yadavs are anyway huge in number, and are spread across so many states...which suggests a long history to that race.
 
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renuka

Gold Member
Gold Member
Repeatedly I see the usage of the word COPY and PASTE being used.

Everyone here regurgitates stuff that is obtained elsewhere tru books or from their knowledge acquired tru years of copy and pasting information into our brain.

Btw..if Lord Krishna is considered an Avatar or even the Supreme Personality of Godhead by Vaishnava text..why should Gotra or Caste matter?

Gotra and Caste is only for humans who havent gone beyond bodily identification.
 
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CHANDRU1849

Well-known member
Repeatedly I see the usage of the word COPY and PASTE being used.

Everyone here regurgitates stuff that is obtained elsewhere tru books or from their knowledge acquired tru years of copy and pasting information into our brain.

Btw..if Lord Krishna is considered an Avatar or even the Supreme Personality of Godhead by Vaishnava text..why should Gotra or Caste matter?

Gotra and Caste is only for humans who havent gone beyond bodily identification.

Krishna must be a human being, since he had biological parents.

Further, he possessed the characteristics of human beings like showing favouritism, performing ‘Thilalangadi' acts with gopikas etc.

The only point of interest is whether Gothra was prevalent during his time.
 

tbs

Well-known member
Krishna must be a human being, since he had biological parents.

Further, he possessed the characteristics of human beings like showing favouritism, performing ‘Thilalangadi' acts with gopikas etc.

The only point of interest is whether Gothra was prevalent during his time.
hi

yes ..i think...according to srimad bhagavatham....sri krishna belongs to garga gothra and gargi rishi was their kula guru...he

did namakaran for sri krishna...
 

Raji Ram

Gold Member
Gold Member
CnP from a page on the web!

"The descendants of Bharadwaj Gotra display warrior skills, because sage Bharadwaj married

a Kshatriya woman called Suseela. According to Anuloma marriage, those born to a Brahmin

father and a Kshatriya woman take the characteristics of Kshatriya though technically being

a Brahmin. Hence the Brahmin descandants of Bharadwaj Gotra are referred to as Brahma-Kshatriyas

(Warrior Brahmins)."

P. S: So.... Technically, if a Brahmin guy marries a NB girl, their children are Brahmins!!

(Chandru Sir! Are you there??) :D
 

renuka

Gold Member
Gold Member
CnP from a page on the web!

"The descendants of Bharadwaj Gotra display warrior skills, because sage Bharadwaj married

a Kshatriya woman called Suseela. According to Anuloma marriage, those born to a Brahmin

father and a Kshatriya woman take the characteristics of Kshatriya though technically being

a Brahmin. Hence the Brahmin descandants of Bharadwaj Gotra are referred to as Brahma-Kshatriyas

(Warrior Brahmins)."

P. S: So.... Technically, if a Brahmin guy marries a NB girl, their children are Brahmins!!

(Chandru Sir! Are you there??) :D


Just to add some spice here.

During pregnancy if a woman is carrying a male fetus cells there is presence of cells containing Y chromatin or Y chromosome in the blood of the pregnant woman and it disappears from her blood stream after she delivers the baby.

On the other hand if a woman is carrying a female child..no X chromosome is seen circulating in the blood stream.

Now lets look at this from the Gotra point of view.

If a Gotra is Y chromosome linked..then if a woman is carrying a male child..the mothers blood contains the Y chromosome till she delivers the child.

But its just a transient phenomenon till the baby is out of her system.

So its as if when a woman is pregnant with a male child her blood carries the "Gotra".

Is this why it is thought that a woman's gotra "changes" after marriage becos her blood would be carrying Y chromosomal cells only during pregnancy BUT only with a male child!

If the mother is carrying a female fetus..there is no Y chromosomes circulated for obvious reasons.



So that would only mean that a woman that had given birth to a male baby would have been exposed to this transient "Gotra" sensitization.

This mean that a woman who had only daughters wont be exposed to this Y chromosome in her blood stream during pregnancy and a woman who had never had a child too would have not been exposed to Y chromosomes in her blood stream.

Newer evidence shows that some of this circulating Y chromosomal cells that circulate in a mothers blood stream during pregnancy are stored in the brain.

Going back to Gotra..so does this actually mean that the so called "Gotra change"of a woman (which is nothing but circulating Y chromosomal cells during pregnancy with a male child and then some cells stored in the brain) only holds good if a woman has a male child?

With all Y chromosomes stored in the brains of women who had delivered a male child ...I am starting to wonder if Indian woman store more of these cells!LOL

cos an Indian woman loves her son more than even a dog loves his master!LOL


Now going back to what happens if a Brahmin male marries a Non Brahmin female?

If she delivers a baby boy then the fetal Y chromosomes cells are stored in her brain...so technically her Gotra has "changed".

Same goes when a NB male married a Brahmin female...if she delivers a male child...she stores fetal Y chromosome in her brain..so again her Gotra has "changed".


If divorce and remarriage takes place and a new male child is delivered tru the new marriage then it goes without saying another set of fetal Y chromosomes would be stored in the brain..so its additional Gotras!

Lets see how this would fit into the Vaagmi gene theory!LOL
 
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KRN

Active member
Btw..if Lord Krishna is considered an Avatar or even the Supreme Personality of Godhead by Vaishnava text..why should Gotra or Caste matter?

Gotra and Caste is only for humans who havent gone beyond bodily identification.

When it comes to an avatar, I suppose the caste does matter...

For example, the Vamana Avatar, being a Brahmin by caste, does not take up arms...and shows up some ideals for Brahmins (like lack of avarice, contentment with less).
 

KRN

Active member
CnP from a page on the web!

"The descendants of Bharadwaj Gotra display warrior skills, because sage Bharadwaj married

a Kshatriya woman called Suseela. According to Anuloma marriage, those born to a Brahmin

father and a Kshatriya woman take the characteristics of Kshatriya though technically being

a Brahmin. Hence the Brahmin descandants of Bharadwaj Gotra are referred to as Brahma-Kshatriyas

(Warrior Brahmins)."

P. S: So.... Technically, if a Brahmin guy marries a NB girl, their children are Brahmins!!

(Chandru Sir! Are you there??) :D

Dronacharya the Guru of Dhanurvidya himself belonged to Bharadwaja gotra...
 
OP
OP
prasad1

prasad1

Gold Member
Gold Member
The yadav's who claim that they descendent of Krishna is false.
If Yadav's are Kshatriyas, then they can not be OBC, and should not get any special privileges.

Gandhari, however, totally ignored them and aided by Sanjaya, came up to Krishna.”You”, she shouted,”You, the young king of Dwaraka. You, who I worshipped everyday, as Vishnu himself and You, who I know to be an avatar of the supreme godhead. Are’nt you ashamed of your doings? Should’nt you have averted this war with your divine will and power? Is this what you do to your own creation? I have requested you, each and every day in the past troubled times to avert this disaster. Is this how you answer my prayers? Ask yor mother, Devaki, the pain of losing a child. She had seven of her children being killed at birth and now I have seen a hundred sons of mine being butchered to death” Gandhari, was shaking, her anger uncontrollable. And all the more she was shocked to hear that Krishna was laughing gently at her. Her fury vent itself out, “Do you smile after all this? What a nerve you have. Listen to this, oh mocking God. If my years of Vishnu Bhakthi have been true, and if my PathiBhakthi since my marriage has been unshaken and strong, then, may you die in 36 years from today. May Dwaraka be flooded and may every one of your Yadava kin perish by killing each other, just as you made the kins of Kuru kill one another. Since the Yadavas cannot be killed by any other race, they will die at each other’s hands. May the Yadavas die out…. may the Yadavas die out….”


https://kshetrapuranas.wordpress.com/2009/02/19/the-death-of-krishna-adapted-from-the-mahabharatha/


 
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OP
OP
prasad1

prasad1

Gold Member
Gold Member
For example, the Vamana Avatar, being a Brahmin by caste, does not take up arms...and shows up some ideals for Brahmins (like lack of avarice, contentment with less).


For Heaven's sake "contentment"!!!. He asked for the entire universe.
 

KRN

Active member
The yadav's who claim that they descendent of Krishna is false.
If Yadav's are Kshatriyas, then they can not be OBC, and should not get any special privileges.


It is not so simple...there are Kshatriyas and even some Brahmin communities who claim OBC benefits in several states.
 

KRN

Active member
Repeatedly I see the usage of the word COPY and PASTE being used.

Everyone here regurgitates stuff that is obtained elsewhere tru books or from their knowledge acquired tru years of copy and pasting information into our brain.

Everyone tries to share what they knows...but I have noticed that many of the threads here share information that defy the truth and/or conventional wisdom. Such information might have been lifted from websites with little credibility. Most of the time I would ignore such threads. But sometimes if I were in the mood, I have also posted replies, as per my knowledge.

But I have noticed that at times my replies with corrections could ruffle the feelings of the topic starter. Hence I have decided to henceforth stop posting any corrections on such threads.

 
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CHANDRU1849

Well-known member
CnP from a page on the web!

"The descendants of Bharadwaj Gotra display warrior skills, because sage Bharadwaj married

a Kshatriya woman called Suseela. According to Anuloma marriage, those born to a Brahmin

father and a Kshatriya woman take the characteristics of Kshatriya though technically being

a Brahmin. Hence the Brahmin descandants of Bharadwaj Gotra are referred to as Brahma-Kshatriyas

(Warrior Brahmins)."

P. S: So.... Technically, if a Brahmin guy marries a NB girl, their children are Brahmins!!

(Chandru Sir! Are you there??) :D

Madam

If a Brahmin girl marries an NB, what is the caste of children?
 
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